Thailand, The Land Of Smiles...

[Lancelot]

Is the Thai smile fading away?

Last night I finished an excellent meal of chicken schnitzel, mashed potatos at Bayern -small restaurant next to the Bank of Ayudhya on Soi Khao Ta Lo- for only B99. I always enjoy myself there, I'm becomming a regular, the waitresses teach me Thai and yes there were smiles all around. But as I was sitting there, I noticed the way the Thais were interacting with each other at the adjacent noodle/kao mun gai shop. Not much smiling or polite talk-customers stating their orders and staff delivering their meals. Efficient, if not overly friendly, but it seems to work, so cool.

A well dressed pu yai type gentleman was talking to an equally attired lady when a young kid pulls up on his scooter, rudley interupts and asks for directions. The pu yai gives him the directions and the kid speeds of, never bothering to thank him or show any appreciation. Funny because the kid speeds off in the wrong way to the directions he was just given. Now the pu yai looks a bit irritated and mutters to no one in particular, "idiot, why did you ask me?" No big drama, but it just struck me how rude many Thais are to each other. From my small understanding of the Thai language, its pretty specific and maybe this influences the Thais no nonsense behaviour, in the vein of "I want this and I want it now."

After the meal, I stopped at the market on upper Khao Ta Lo to buy some peanuts. I parked in the new street that is adjacent t the shops and a Thai guy yells at me that I can't park there. I was taken a back at his rudeness and I stared at him, not so much as to start a confrontation but to remember his face so that I never patronize his shop, if he has one. I moved the bike about six feet, bought my peanuts then returned. In fairness, I saw that the guys were moving some furniture and my bike would have blocked their path. I would have been more than happy to have moved the bike but why couldn't the guy have asked in a polite manner? No big deal, but it did irk me a bit.

Before I would have chalked it up as a Thai simply getting off on being rude to a farang, but I'm not so sure now. More and more I see the Thais being abrupt and even quite rude with each other, which is a bit amusing since this is "The Land of Smiles..." Yeah, in formal situations, there is a lot of smiling and very polite language, especially when its pu yai , the senior, communicating with a person of lesser "rank."

Maybe in times past, foreigners were rare in the Kingdom and afforded respect and elevated status simply because we were few and the Thais could not figure out our "rank" with respect to thei own. Now that millions of foreign visitors flock to Thailand, the automatic respect thing is pretty much gone, IMHO. Like I said earlier, its the Thai on Thai rudness that suprises me the most. Maybe the on going political unrest, poor economy, and just the increased stress of daily life is taking its toll, but I'm not seeing as many smiles as before. Maybe posters with 20+ years of Thailand residency will disagree but for me things are definatley changing-and not for the better.

Any way, Thailand is still a good place to visit and/or live and I do enjoy interacting with the locals but I'm not sure the LOS label is all that applicable.

Just my 2 satang

[webfact]

Is the Thai smile fading away?

After knowing this country for 30y and living in it for 23y my answer is (unfortunately) YES

[billd766]

I suppose it has something to do with where you live.

I live in a small moo ban in the Central region and I haven't really noticed any change here but there are very few resident farangs here.

Most of the people I meet on a daily basis in the shops and the bank are just the same and the kids wave and shout as we pass each other on the school run.

[jayjayjayjay]

Is the Thai smile fading away?

After knowing this country for 30y and living in it for 23y my answer is (unfortunately) YES

Mine's a NO. I certainly have my moments, but as a rule it's more me than them. Each time a take a step back flush out the frustrations and all is good again. I flash a smile to a passing Thai and get one big cheesy grin back.

[Lancelot]

I suppose it has something to do with where you live.

OK, fair statement. Tourist towns the world over are a bit over the top sometimes. but I am noticing Thai on Thai squabbles in Bangkok as well. I have lived here for almost seven years and first visited in 2001 so I don't have the long term experience and perspective of some of the long term posters on TV. I am not condeming the Thais, 95% are good folks, but I am noticing some sign of stress and fewr smiles. Just my opinion and observations.

[patklang]

Only a newbie(6 years) but many casual thai friends always smile and greet me with affection.The place should never be called the land of smiles when thais are shooting each other for many many years.

No big deal if a thai doesnt smile at me,as this happens in the uk too,why should they smile at me anyway.

[tb86]

i havent been here as long as many of you but longer than some, so i cant really say with as many years exp as you guys but i have been traveling to bali alot recently and each ime i return here i am blown away by how friendly the balinese are when compared to the thais...... I mean night and day,, maybe bali has become the real los and thailand is the loss <land of smiles, sometimes> but i do live in bkk, so i should not honestly make such a sweeping generalization. But ive never really gotten that wow these people are that friendly feeling here or in chiang mai, chiang rai. not to say that people arent friendly, just not friendly enough to make a big deal over, im talking about strangers that is.. but on a positive note thais are about 1,000,000,000,000 times more friendly than the koreans

Edited October 1, 2009 by tb86

[Rimmer]

Quite out of the blue and totally unsolicited whilst we were driving into town yesterday, my Thai wife turned to me and said

"Thai people are not friendly anymore and do not smile" I have no idea what prompted the remark or what she was thinking of.

[Maigo6]

I'd agree, it's a lot to do with where you live.

Live up country for a while, then come down to a tourist area like Pattaya to really notice the difference.

Edited October 1, 2009 by Maigo6

[MyphuketLife]

i havent been here as long as many of you but longer than some, so i cant really say with as many years exp as you guys but i have been traveling to bali alot recently and each ime i return here i am blown away by how friendly the balinese are when compared to the thais...... I mean night and day,, maybe bali has become the real los and thailand is the loss <land of smiles, sometimes> but i do live in bkk, so i should not honestly make such a sweeping generalization. But ive never really gotten that wow these people are that friendly feeling here or in chiang mai, chiang rai. not to say that people arent friendly, just not friendly enough to make a big deal over, im talking about strangers that is.. but on a positive note thais are about 1,000,000,000,000 times more friendly than the koreans

Wierd all my visits to Korea, the Korean's were far more friendly and helpfull to me than the Thai's have been....

[namoo]

They were never real smiles in the first place.

[Pattayatony]

Is the Thai smile fading away?

Last night I finished an excellent meal of chicken schnitzel, mashed potatos at Bayern -small restaurant next to the Bank of Ayudhya on Soi Khao Ta Lo- for only B99. I always enjoy myself there, I'm becomming a regular, the waitresses teach me Thai and yes there were smiles all around. But as I was sitting there, I noticed the way the Thais were interacting with each other at the adjacent noodle/kao mun gai shop. Not much smiling or polite talk-customers stating their orders and staff delivering their meals. Efficient, if not overly friendly, but it seems to work, so cool.

A well dressed pu yai type gentleman was talking to an equally attired lady when a young kid pulls up on his scooter, rudley interupts and asks for directions. The pu yai gives him the directions and the kid speeds of, never bothering to thank him or show any appreciation. Funny because the kid speeds off in the wrong way to the directions he was just given. Now the pu yai looks a bit irritated and mutters to no one in particular, "idiot, why did you ask me?" No big drama, but it just struck me how rude many Thais are to each other. From my small understanding of the Thai language, its pretty specific and maybe this influences the Thais no nonsense behaviour, in the vein of "I want this and I want it now."

After the meal, I stopped at the market on upper Khao Ta Lo to buy some peanuts. I parked in the new street that is adjacent t the shops and a Thai guy yells at me that I can't park there. I was taken a back at his rudeness and I stared at him, not so much as to start a confrontation but to remember his face so that I never patronize his shop, if he has one. I moved the bike about six feet, bought my peanuts then returned. In fairness, I saw that the guys were moving some furniture and my bike would have blocked their path. I would have been more than happy to have moved the bike but why couldn't the guy have asked in a polite manner? No big deal, but it did irk me a bit.

Before I would have chalked it up as a Thai simply getting off on being rude to a farang, but I'm not so sure now. More and more I see the Thais being abrupt and even quite rude with each other, which is a bit amusing since this is "The Land of Smiles..." Yeah, in formal situations, there is a lot of smiling and very polite language, especially when its pu yai , the senior, communicating with a person of lesser "rank."

Maybe in times past, foreigners were rare in the Kingdom and afforded respect and elevated status simply because we were few and the Thais could not figure out our "rank" with respect to thei own. Now that millions of foreign visitors flock to Thailand, the automatic respect thing is pretty much gone, IMHO. Like I said earlier, its the Thai on Thai rudness that suprises me the most. Maybe the on going political unrest, poor economy, and just the increased stress of daily life is taking its toll, but I'm not seeing as many smiles as before. Maybe posters with 20+ years of Thailand residency will disagree but for me things are definatley changing-and not for the better.

Any way, Thailand is still a good place to visit and/or live and I do enjoy interacting with the locals but I'm not sure the LOS label is all that applicable.

Just my 2 satang

THE SMILE was always False so why worry about it. Just move out & take your Money with you

[samuibeachcomber]

did anyone notice a change during the thai financial meltdown in 1996? cos i reckon a lot to do with les smiles is probably due to the stresses now of job losses and reduced wages,increased competition at the lower end of the socio economic table as more people become self employed after having lost a job,taking up selling food etc.

I know the bar girls are becoming stressed out through lack of customers and therefore business due to tourist downturn.(my only area of expertise!)

[phetaroi]

I've been living here less than a year, but I have been visiting (usually 3-7 weeks at a time) since 1987.

In some ways I find Thais in Bangkok more relaxed. Holding hands. A kiss in public. Wearing shorts. Goofy hair and clothes styles. Many eating in better restaurants (such as at Central World).

Along with all those relaxed attitudes...or perhaps because of it...is ascension into the Thai middle class. The desire for "things". Wanting to be (as they see it) an individual. More involvement in politics...or at least awareness of politics.

My Thai friends who are professionals are working longer hours, sometimes even on Saturdays after a full week. They are more results-oriented in terms of work.

I'm into photography, so I often carry a rather upscale camera. It used to attract attention and be a conversation starter. Now it's nothing special. I see many Thais out taking photos with digital SLRs.

I never thought about it in this sense until reading this thread, but Bangkokians have arrived. They're apt to have cable television and internet. More connected to the rest of the world.

Nevertheless, I still see the quick smiles, the friendliness, the courtesy, the mai pben rai attitude, the sanuk...but it's just a little deeper down now.

[phetaroi]

THE SMILE was always False so why worry about it. Just move out & take your Money with you

There is not just one Thai smile. There are many. They each have different meanings.

[namoo]

There is not just one Thai smile. There are many. They each have different meanings.

Which one is the real one then??

I think its the one when u hand them a 1000thb note....

Edited October 1, 2009 by namoo

[mahtin]

As an interbreeder I am in favour of the great big melting pot. But...

I see the fading of the Thai smile as just another aspect of tradition being lost, as the CocaCola culture, TV and the internet gradually boil us all down to the lowest common denominator.

We can try to sustain it by not behaving in a manner that expedites the erosion of the smile.

[mahtin]

There is not just one Thai smile. There are many. They each have different meanings.

Which one is the real one then??

I think its the one when u hand them a 1000thb note....

Well, that's your Thailand.

[mauGR1]

As an interbreeder I am in favour of the great big melting pot. But...

I see the fading of the Thai smile as just another aspect of tradition being lost, as the CocaCola culture, TV and the internet gradually boil us all down to the lowest common denominator.

We can try to sustain it by not behaving in a manner that expedites the erosion of the smile.

I agree..

As a western foreigner visiting Asia,i always felt somehow responsible of polluting an ancient culture..

We tend to complain if the Thais are not serious,and we complain if they don't smile.

I live in LoS since 5 years,and i've noticed there are less smiles nowadays.

I guess it's the "Farang Syndrome"

[JR Texas]

did anyone notice a change during the thai financial meltdown in 1996? cos i reckon a lot to do with les smiles is probably due to the stresses now of job losses and reduced wages,increased competition at the lower end of the socio economic table as more people become self employed after having lost a job,taking up selling food etc.

I know the bar girls are becoming stressed out through lack of customers and therefore business due to tourist downturn.(my only area of expertise!)

Agreed......a lot has to do with economic conditions.

But I think there is more, Mr. T fanned the flames of xenophobia and extreme nationalism.

He also grossly inflated expectations for the masses.......and created a false image of Thailand in the public mind.

Now, people are hurting...........expectations are not being met.....reality is sinking it........they are recognizing that it is not the #1 country on the planet (even in the region)..........and foreigners are being looked at with suspicion, scorn or worse.

Of course, not all Thais are locked into this xenophobic/ultra-nationalistic mindset, but many are. And it is all too easy to blame foreigners for their self-inflicted troubles.

Those that don't do that blame each other.........the rural-urban conflict in Thai society seems to be growing stronger.......certainly leading to fewer genuine smiles down the road.

One thing I have learned about Thais.........they hold it in and smile and smile and then BLOW UP! I hope I am not here when they all decide to blow up.

Interesting that one poster mentioned the friendliness of the people in Bali.........yes, and it seems genuine. Perhaps some of that has to do with the fact that Balinese culture is still strong......the cultural beliefs and patterns in Bali are genuine......in Thailand it has all turned into a sort of "semi-meaningless show."

One famous anthropologist likened culture to a complex tapestry..........in Thailand's case, the threads of its tapestry are coming apart.

To me, Thailand has regressed dramatically--economically and socially--over the past 10 years.

The good news, at least for those who remember the good years, is that there are a few places in surrounding countries that are looking more and more like the good Thailand of 20 years ago.

As Thailand-Titanic goes under, those places will benefit and grow......and they will become fun and relaxed places to be. The cycle will start over again. I am thinking, in particular, about Cambodia and Vietnam.

[Heng]

I'd have to agree, and just over the course of the last 10 years or so. Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on how sensitive you are) though, I usually don't have to deal with strangers, so usually I'm surrounded by a giant fake cumulonimbus cloud of intense 'sucking up.' And when strangers see this cloud (say in traffic, in banks, restaurants, etc.), the tendency is to either avoid me or pretend to be nice as well. Works for me.

[britmaveric]

Respect is give when earned... never had a problem and always genuine smiles no matter what city or place in thailand I am.

[Maigo6]

Respect is give when earned... never had a problem and always genuine smiles no matter what city or place in thailand I am.

Brit, of course she smiled, you'd just given her 1000 Baht for 1 minutes suffering, pretty good return I think, although I still feel sorry for her.

No, joking apart.

I'll go along with you, I've been in Thailand a long time and I find you get back what you give out, if you are happy and smile and say hello to Thai people, very few will ignore you, most will give a positive response.

On the other hand, if you smile at and say hello to a Farang, many will ignore you and waddle off thinking you're a time share tout or some skint Farang trying to borrow money.

In many cases that's a wise move, especially in Pattaya.

Edited October 1, 2009 by Maigo6

[Lancelot]

On the other hand, if you smile at and say hello to a Farang, many will ignore you and waddle off thinking you're a time share tout or some skint Farang trying to borrow money.

In many cases that's a wise move in Pattaya.

Yeah, of topic but I do notice many farangs that appear guarded and tend to avoid casual conversations. I always say hello to my fellow diners at that little restaurant, Bayern. I almost laughed out loud at the visible relief of one diner when he realized that I was limiting my comments to "Hello."

On the other hand, I gotta agree with Maigo6 that one must pick one's friends very wisely in our beloved Pattaya

[britmaveric]

Actually take that back - Mototaxi lad wanted 150bht from walking street to Queen Vic on Soi 6. I told him to fk off and he kept saying farang have big money, but want everything cheap. I pointed out that I could take a baht bus for 10bht, but he became rather annoyed, sp I just walked off.

[beechguy]

I agree with others, it may depend on where you are, I don't have any complaints. I've ran into a couple of people like the taxi guy mentioned above, but that happens to foreigners in a lot of countries. I've gone many places here where I was the only foreigner, and people seemed to make a real effort to be friendly and polite.

[tb86]

i havent been here as long as many of you but longer than some, so i cant really say with as many years exp as you guys but i have been traveling to bali alot recently and each ime i return here i am blown away by how friendly the balinese are when compared to the thais...... I mean night and day,, maybe bali has become the real los and thailand is the loss <land of smiles, sometimes> but i do live in bkk, so i should not honestly make such a sweeping generalization. But ive never really gotten that wow these people are that friendly feeling here or in chiang mai, chiang rai. not to say that people arent friendly, just not friendly enough to make a big deal over, im talking about strangers that is.. but on a positive note thais are about 1,000,000,000,000 times more friendly than the koreans

Wierd all my visits to Korea, the Korean's were far more friendly and helpfull to me than the Thai's have been....

strange.. in seoul they are generaly not so friendly, maybe i have only had experiences with the cranky ones, oh well

[anothertorres]

no.

[Maigo6]

The Thai smile isn't fading away.

It's just that Farangs are becoming even more miserable, bitter and twisted, than they were a few years ago.

Probably due to exchange rates being unfavourable.

The Thai people just carry on as usual.

Give a smile and you'll get one back.

Edited October 1, 2009 by Maigo6

[anothertorres]

seriously speaking. i'm trying guys, i'm trying to look you in the eye and saying "hello" to you when i see you on the street. but 9/10, my fellow farang is not responding in kind. listen, i don't wanna hang out with you, i don't wanna "let you in" on a killer moneymaking scheme and i certainly don't want to know anything about you... i just want us to say hello like normal people would.

maybe if we all started to at least appear to like one another, we could start making changes around here. first on my list would be setting up an import to bring in some cheap Canadian beers. imagine if we could all have a Blue once in a while.

anyway, my point is... farang don't smile amongst eachother, why should they bother smiling to us?