Bangkok Post Bans Thaivisa From Using Its Content

[vanalli]

Very poor show, Thai Visa. Your sponsor, The Nation, is also a member of the group. The statement is nothing more than an attack on Bangkok Post. How dare you claim to be working in the spirit of a community when what you're doing is totally shameless and underhanded. Shame on you.

[TheOtherGuy]

Yup, hardly surprising is the key phrase here.

News agencies around the world are struggling to come up with ways to provide reliable news and make money. News is hard work and expensive - you have to pay people and provide premises and equipment to do it. Websites such as ThaiVisa do not have to pay for reporters, and much less equipment. But they provide the new demand-driven model of news - all the news you want to read from all news agencies in the one place. And that's what peole want, and why ThaiVisa is so popular.

Just a heads-up for ThaiVisa: Once news is published it is public record. Period. Anyone can then quote the news reported. The catch is that you cannot use exactly the same words. So just rewrite the stories in your own words and add "it was reported", and there's nothing the Bangkok Post can do about it.

Saying it was the Bangkok Post that reported it (nevermind posting a direct link taking your web traffic to the Bangkok Post website) becomes a courtesy offered by ThaiVisa. I'm sure the Bangkok Post forgot to mention that in their letter.

This applies to all news stories. How many times have you read AFP or Reuters stories saying in their own story "local newspaper XXXXXX reported on Thursday".

Trust me, major international news agencies, including AFP and Reuters, do not pay squat for reporting what another newspaper has reported.

So when the Bangkok Post reports in it's breaking news story "PM: Elections in 9 months, maybe" that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said, "If in nine months from now the country's economy has regained sufficient strength, the [amended] constitution is acceptable to all, and the political atmosphere is right, a House dissolution would then be possible"...

ThaiVisa can simply post "If in nine months from now the country's economy has regained sufficient strength, the [amended] constitution is acceptable to all, and the political atmosphere is right, a House dissolution would then be possible," Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva was reported as saying.

The real trick is coming up with a solution that benefits everyone. Direct links and crediting stories appropriately used to be the standard. Apparently it is no more.

In that I wish you all the best of luck, and keep up the good work

[tmark]

honestly think about that

you have news you think it's important for people to know, what/how would you like to have them spread to people?

You'd give a dam_n fxxk if somebody copy/paste or not, I'd regard it as blessing.

When the news can be life saving I'd regard it even more.

In other words it's not about news and the purpose to have them out by any means for all of these disguised news providers, but to control and gain power.

Definitely, they are in the wrong business.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think BKK Post's main agenda is making money. Not keeping people informed. (like any business, even this forum!) OK, it's a big number two so to speak but definitely not number one. They work hard for their content and probably feel a little pissed at others using it scott free. I think that's the bottom line. They're only humans and a lot of humans are greedy,petty and anal twits. 

Edited October 2, 2009 by tmark

[marsteele]

well if farangs are reading the articles here then they are not buying the post. Can't have farangs hearing the news for free. Who buys a newspaper these days anyway. I guess now we will the western version of major events happening in Thailand and now won't read the thai story. I think that will be more damming for thai's. Opinions here now will only be formed from what we hear from the western media. Oh well that is how the thai's want it so be it.

Edited October 2, 2009 by marsteele

[punkonater]

That's a pity.

It used to my newspaper of choice here in Thailand.

However, the quality has deteriorated in recent years and it is a very thin newspaper these days.

Agreed. I've also found over the years it's become pretty biased.

[thaibkk]

this forum earn BIG BUCKS with 10 advertisements per post, not even from own content

[dantilley]

this forum earn BIG BUCKS with 10 advertisements per post, not even from own content

10 ads per post? Surely you mean 10 ads per topic? Not even sure that's correct though...

[Rhys]

awhh...both are rags

[SPIKECM]

ThaiVisa.com have you taken this lying down?

As a journalist of over 20 years and lecturer of Mass Comms, I am unaware of the legal strength of this decision, and it sounds as though you are too - as you have not mentioned any REAL legal argument for this decision. Have you been bullied? Acted out of fear? Simply believed that you can not properly quote with use of referents, just because they told you so?

This sounds fishy ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls.

Perhaps you may wish to put this to rest by actually quoting your legal source, or making reference to the legal precedent that actually forbids you from quoting with use of referents.

There is NO legal precedent for this. They have NO legal right to prevent you from quoting them with full credit.

What's the REAL story here Thaivisa?

Don't you have a duty to report the truth, ethically and responsibly, as well as some kind of duty to your readership?

Maybe you should make a stand - with respect.

.... it is pot calling the kettle black in any case as far as censorship goes. anything slightly informative about Thai visa's advertising competitors and the post is pulled and possibly the contributor. Thai Visa has more power than the Bangkok Post when it comes to censorship it seems....

[desi]

I wonder how long TV is going to let us natter on before clearing up the questions being asked...

[walterego]

Thailand to become an RSS Hub?

[Crushdepth]

The content of Thaivisa is copyright too, according to the footer. If someone reproduced key parts of Thaivisa on a rival site would be owners be happy?

If you claim copyright over your own content, you have to respect the copyright of others.

[thaibkk]

this forum earn BIG BUCKS with 10 advertisements per post, not even from own content

10 ads per post? Surely you mean 10 ads per topic? Not even sure that's correct though...

if you can count -> at least 8 page one, 8 page 2 ...

clients (advertisers) pay per time the ad is shown... so if you go trough 8 pages of comment

in fact they earned 64x on it... CPM, look it up

x 1000 - 10.000 readers per article...

[bkkjames]

this forum earn BIG BUCKS with 10 advertisements per post, not even from own content

10 ads per post? Surely you mean 10 ads per topic? Not even sure that's correct though...

if you can count -> at least 8 page one, 8 page 2 ...

clients (advertisers) pay per time the ad is shown... so if you go trough 8 pages of comment

in fact they earned 64x on it... CPM, look it up

x 1000 - 10.000 readers per article...

and here I thought they only paid when I clicked on them. guess I shall stop posting now in order to save them some money.

[dantilley]

clients (advertisers) pay per time the ad is shown...

Usually it's pay per click, not pay per view. Valid point about multiple pages per topic though...

[selftaopath]

Wonder what the legal situation is here in Thailand concerning fair use, in terms of quoting published media content?

Sunny

LOL perhaps like most other ???? issues, legal or otherwise, it's up to interpretation :-) And also if there is a benefit to the individual(s) in power/control (financially).

[tmark]

The content of Thaivisa is copyright too, according to the footer. If someone reproduced key parts of Thaivisa on a rival site would be owners be happy?

If you claim copyright over your own content, you have to respect the copyright of others.

"Claiming Copyright" is one thing. Actually having taken out a copyright is another. Most sites fall into the former category. It's easy to put a "Copyright" in the footer. Most website scripts contain one which you can edit to include "your" name. Most of the time it's just a wank with no legal weight. I'm not saying that's the case with TV as I have no idea.

On another note, most forum have some kind of disclaimer saying that they hold no responsibility for content of posts made by members. If you  "own" the content, then surely you are responsible for it. Can't  have it both ways. What's the situation here on TV? Please don't tell me to go and actually read the terms. I mean no one actually does that do they? Quick scroll and hit the "I accept" box.

Edited October 2, 2009 by tmark

[elcent]

this forum earn BIG BUCKS with 10 advertisements per post, not even from own content

10 ads per post? Surely you mean 10 ads per topic? Not even sure that's correct though...

if you can count -> at least 8 page one, 8 page 2 ...

clients (advertisers) pay per time the ad is shown... so if you go trough 8 pages of comment

in fact they earned 64x on it... CPM, look it up

x 1000 - 10.000 readers per article...

and here I thought they only paid when I clicked on them. guess I shall stop posting now in order to save them some money.

ppc or pay per click has a downward trend since years. nobody clicks them anymore. now it is pay per impressions shown. it's something from 0.02 to 0.20(sometime more) per 1000 views

[thaibkk]

clients (advertisers) pay per time the ad is shown...

Usually it's pay per click, not pay per view. Valid point about multiple pages per topic though...

maybe the google ads are partially pay per click, but they also pay in CPM = cost of just showing / viewing the add...

but about censorship, telling the truth = news ? when u say something about advertisement, they like to censor, ban ...

repost and or making a new account is easy and automated if needed

[thaibkk]

.02 to .20 ...

you are joking, good ads can go up to 20 $ per 1000 impressions

this is a big business

[elcent]

The content of Thaivisa is copyright too, according to the footer. If someone reproduced key parts of Thaivisa on a rival site would be owners be happy?

If you claim copyright over your own content, you have to respect the copyright of others.

"Claiming Copyright" is one thing. Actually having taken out a copyright is another. Most sites fall into the former category. It's easy to put a "Copyright" in the footer. Most website scripts contain one which you can edit to include "your" name. Most of the time it's just a wank with no legal weight. I'm not saying that's the case with TV as I have no idea.

every website needs a TOS (Terms of Service) and a "privacy" policy statement by means of international rules. Websites who don't have that can have their domain revoked by domain registrar's head body when reported. Google doesn't index sites if their bots can't find that.

New sports maybe?

[tmark]

I'm putting my Fortune Teller's hat on. Hmmm, Hmmmm. Got it! This entire thread will be deleted on October 2 at 5.12 pm.

[bkkjames]

I'm putting my Fortune Teller's hat on. Hmmm, Hmmmm. Got it! This entire thread will be deleted on October 2 at 5.12 pm.

Perhaps it's just a ruse (is that how you spell it) in order to get the per view count up. I heard TV was going public next month. Don't tell the BK post.

[hhgz]

"As a journalist of over 20 years and lecturer of Mass Comms, I am unaware of the legal strength of this decision..."

So, without any legal training - especially Thailand - you want TV to go for broke. Heck, why not, it's not your a$$ or financial security at stake.

I'm amused that so many TVers comment how bad the Post is, and then bemoans its decision to not allow TV to republish its articles. All in all, it reminds me of a Woody Allen joke: Two elderly women are dining at a restaurant, and one complains, "The food is terrible!" The second woman adds, "And the portions are so small."

[thaibkk]

The content of Thaivisa is copyright too, according to the footer. If someone reproduced key parts of Thaivisa on a rival site would be owners be happy?

If you claim copyright over your own content, you have to respect the copyright of others.

"Claiming Copyright" is one thing. Actually having taken out a copyright is another. Most sites fall into the former category. It's easy to put a "Copyright" in the footer. Most website scripts contain one which you can edit to include "your" name. Most of the time it's just a wank with no legal weight. I'm not saying that's the case with TV as I have no idea.

every website needs a TOS (Terms of Service) and a "privacy" policy statement by means of international rules. Websites who don't have that can have their domain revoked by domain registrar's head body when reported. Google doesn't index sites if their bots can't find that.

New sports maybe?

woehaha, this last one... google does not index if you have no TOS or privacy, ROFL ....

new in the business? i'm since 1999

what about all the NON english speaking websites in the world

there is nothing said in GOOGLE TOS about not having a TOS on ur site

[tmark]

every website needs a TOS (Terms of Service) and a "privacy" policy statement by means of international rules.

Websites who don't have that can have their domain revoked by domain registrar's head body when reported.

Google doesn't index sites if their bots can't find that.

Absolute rubbish. Totally wrong and uhmmmm, oh yeah, incorrect.

[opalhort]

I wonder how long TV is going to let us natter on before clearing up the questions being asked...

Same question here. Where has admin gone?

Why can't they clearly answer the questions that have been asked here?

I have a feeling that admin is quite happy with all the irrelevant posts since they mean more posts --> more hits --> more etc.etc....

If they answer the questions early the topic could die faster.

opalhort

Edited October 2, 2009 by opalhort

[marshbags]

It might be a good idea to take the B.Post off the special inserts lists for awhile, unless the content of the O. P,s subject matter is negotiable in the short term.

As some have mentioned, having the Nation onboard could be akin to shooting ones self in the foot.

Unfair and undemocratic, I know, but as there are only 2 main English language Newspapers in Thailand.

It is a shame as we only get one set of opinions now, feed back / news wise.

What we do not get is being able to try and find a more balanced view between their agendas based on who they unofficially support.

marshbags

[tmark]

It is a shame as we only get one set of opinions now, feed back / news wise.

marshbags

C'mon now. If you are serious and not just making noise just type "http://bangkokpost.com/" into the little address thingy at the top of your browser and get the "other" opinion.

[spode]

Since admin still has not answered the questions about links directly may I try an experiment:

What will happen if I make the following post (an example only!):

-------------------

Today I saw an interesting article in the BKK Post about the security act being used again.

The headline and link is here:

Govt to use security act during summit

--------------------

would a post of this kind still be possible?

opalhort

What doesn't appear to have been mentioned in this thread is that, once the BKK Post has published the content on their website, it is then in the Public Domain (unless of course you need to be a member of the BKK Post's website to read it.)

Umm - that is not correct in most countries. The rights to the content are still retained by the publisher or writer or whoever holds them. Just as photocopying a book in a public library is illegal in most places, so too is reproducing the entire content of a news article.

However, in most jurisdictions, it *is* legal to quote a small portion of an article and/or title optionally along with a link to where to find that article.

I do know of at least one jurisdiction where this is *not* legal if the site owner says it is not legal. But that is incredibly rare. Some places, such as the Education Department of the Hong Kong Government several years ago, tried to deny other sites permission to even link to their web site without written permission, but this was found to be an unlawful restriction (not to mention incredibly stupid).

Separately from that, an online discussion forum can have whatever restrictions and enforcements that owners/operators/admins/whatever establish. So even if such linking is legal, it may be outside the permissible realm for TV forums, depending on how the admins clarify this.

I do not know what the law in Thailand has to say about any of this.

-Spode