Forever Outvoted In Condo Board Of Director's Meeting

[yabaaaa]

Must say you've gotten excellent feedback on your question. Am also heartened to know that books on Thai Condo Law are selling like hotcakes. Indicates that people are finally realizing the repercussions of apathy and ignorance of their rights.

If you do decide to take on the reformation of your condo I advise you not to try to do it on your own. It's like sticking your hand into a hornet's nest. Rather get a group of 10 - 15 people to stand up with you, form a strategy and disseminate information. Then, when you know what support you have amongst the co-owners, and what you're up against, call for an Annual General Meeting to be held on the premises. If nobody will stand with you, walk away from this fight.

Remember, you're dealing with Thai Condo Law which is just like any law - ultimately enforceable by the police and the courts.

Good luck.

Agree with this. Our annual general meeting elected two farang onto the committee (all totally legal, majority of owners happy and very supportive of farang on committee).

Then farang tried to carefully convinve all owners to get serious about several serious problems, then another Thai committee member spread false rumours that the farang were out to steal the building funds.

At next meeting majority of owners now very negative about farang and made it obvious that farang no longer welcome.

Aha now we know why all farang are rich, its because they go around stealing buildings fund money.Fiendish!!!

[trogers]

Then farang tried to carefully convinve all owners to get serious about several serious problems, then another Thai committee member spread false rumours that the farang were out to steal the building funds.

At next meeting majority of owners now very negative about farang and made it obvious that farang no longer welcome.

I think the farang made the first major mistake - chose to buy a condo in a social class that is too low.

Always remember - choosing a place to stay means choosing a community to live in. If this community is largely of simple minds, and will easily believe false rumours, it is not a community that is suitable for you.

If the community is made up largely of working professionals, the one spreading the rumours will be at the receiving end.

As a side note: I have seen quite a few large condo projects mixing a big chuck of studio units with 2-bedrooms and penthouses. I foresee major problems in the communities that will occupy these projects.

Edited December 24, 2009 by trogers

[pkrv]

As a side note: I have seen quite a few large condo projects mixing a big chuck of studio units with 2-bedrooms and penthouses. I foresee major problems in the communities that will occupy these projects.

I agree this is not a good mix.

[Robbiechiang]

Section 37 of the Condominium Act covers the Committee of a condominium. You are right that there are no proxies, and if there are insufficient numbers of committee members, (you are not "directors"), then the committee cannot meet.

If you are dissatisfied with their behaviour, you should get together 1/3 of your co-owners and call for an EGM, and have them removed. 50% of the vote of all co-owners is required to achieve that:

มาตรา ๓๗. ให้มีคณะกรรมการนิติบุคคลอาคารชุดประกอบด้วยกรรมการไม่น้อย

กว่าสามคนแต่ไม่เกินเก้าคน ซึ่งแต่งตั้งโดยที่ประชุมใหญ่เจ้าของร่วม

กรรมการมีวาระการดำรงตำแหน่งคราวละสองปี ในกรณีกรรมการพ้นจากตำแหน่งก่อน

วาระหรือมีการแต่งตั้งกรรมการเพิ่มขึ้นในระหว่างที่กรรมการซึ่งแต่งตั้งไว้แล้วยังมีวาระ

อยู่ในตำแหน่งให้ผู้ซึ่งได้รับแต่งตั้งดำรงตำแหน่งแทนหรือเป็นกรรมการเพิ่มขึ้นอยู่ใน

ตำแหน่งเท่ากับวาระที่เหลืออยู่ของกรรมการซึ่งได้รับแต่งตั้งไว้แล้ว

เมื่อครบกำหนดวาระตามวรรคสอง หากยังมิได้มีการแต่งตั้งกรรมการขึ้นใหม่ให้

กรรมการซึ่งพ้นจากตำแหน่งตามวาระนั้นปฏิบัติหน้าที่ต่อไปจนกว่ากรรมการซึ่งได้รับ

แต่งตั้งใหม่เข้ารับหน้าที่

กรรมการซึ่งพ้นจากตำแหน่งอาจได้รับแต่งตั้งอีกได้ แต่จะดำรงตำแหน่งเกินสองวาระ

ติดต่อกันไม่ได้ เว้นแต่ไม่อาจหาบุคคลอื่นมาดำรงตำแหน่งได้

การแต่งตั้งกรรมการ ให้ผู้จัดการนำไปจดทะเบียนต่อพนักงานเจ้าหน้าที่ภายในสามสิบ

วันนับแต่วันที่ที่ประชุมใหญ่เจ้าของร่วมมีมติ

Section 37.40 There shall be established a condominium building

juristic person committee comprising not less than three but not more

than nine committee members who are appointed by a joint owners

general meeting.

Each committee member shall hold office two years each term. In the

case where a committee member vacates office before completing

his/her term, or there be appointed an additional committee member

during the period the appointed committee members are still holding

office, the replacement or additional committee member shall hold

office only for the remaining period of the committee members who

have already been appointed.

Upon the lapse of the period under paragraph two, if there have not yet

been appointed new committee members, the committee members who

have vacated office shall continue performing their duties until the

newly appointed committee members will have assumed their duties.

Retired committee members may be reappointed, however, they may not

hold office for more than two consecutive terms, except where no other

persons can be solicited to take their place.

The manager shall effect the registration of appointment of committee

members with the competent officer within thirty days from the date of

passing the resolution by the joint owner general meeting.

มาตรา ๓๗/๑. บุคคลดังต่อไปนี้มีสิทธิได้รับแต่งตั้งเป็นกรรมการ

(๑) เจ้าของร่วมหรือคู่สมรสของเจ้าของร่วม

(๒) ผู้แทนโดยชอบธรรม ผู้อนุบาล หรือผู้พิทักษ์ในกรณีที่เจ้าของร่วมเป็นผู้เยาว์

คนไร้ความสามารถ หรือคนเสมือนไร้ความสามารถ แล้วแต่กรณี

(๓) ตัวแทนของนิติบุคคลจำนวนหนึ่งคน ในกรณีที่นิติบุคคลเป็นเจ้าของร่วม

ในกรณีที่ห้องชุดใดมีผู้ถือกรรมสิทธิ์เป็นเจ้าของร่วมหลายคน ให้มีสิทธิได้รับแต่งตั้งเป็น

กรรมการจำนวนหนึ่งคน

Section 37/1.41 The following persons may be appointed as a

committee member:

(1) A joint owner or his/her spouse.

(2) The legitimate representative, the guardian, or the caretaker in

the case the joint owner is a juvenile, an incompetent or quasiincompetent

person, as the case may be.

(3) A representative of the juristic person, in the case the juristic

person is a joint owner.

In the case any condominium room has several holders of ownership as

joint owners, only one person may be appointed as a committee

member.

Thanks Samtam for the detailed reply. I dont read Thai but appreciate your thoughtfulness for both English and Thai translation. Can I concur that it is implicit in that section of the Act that if there are Not enough directors, then there is no quorum ? And implies that A Proxy is not allowed for Directors who are absent. In my case, the brother proxied his friend and his friend became the Chairman and his friend also have the Casting Votes in some of the meetings. Can I deduce that all those Board of Director's meetings where we lost in the Votes count when an Agenda was brought up to vote during the meeting is Ultra Vires ? The brother and his sister caused the Condo a lot of grief with their mispendings. Can we get the co-owners then to sue these directors , or a few of us get together and get a lawyer to sue them , and get back the moneys that came out from the Sinking Fund. Or should we sue the Juristic Person at the Condo. ? How can we prevent the Brother from bringing up the Proxy Word again as he insist again and again that he is within the Laws? Must we go and complain to the Land Department and ask them to take action and fine them? And what if he refuses and wants to conduct the meeting his way. Is there a recourse ? Thai laws are funny. They are seldom enforced. Is there a punishment available for the Brother and Sister Team for all the grief they caused by their own interpretation of the Condo Act and their insistence that it is correct? They seem well connected in the high places. We try to help in maintaining the condo as a co-owner and participate as much as possible as the common property is in everybody's interest but it is such a waste of our time to meet with such characters.

I think these questions are too much of a burden to a reader. But thanks for listening anyway and any comments much appreciated.

There is a book easily available with a good English translation of the appropriate laws, I've read it but don't have a copy, but I understand It'' not difficult to find at SE-ED books, Asia Books and more, and not expensive.

In fact the laws and the subsequent regulations and documentation is very detailed and for good reason. By the regulations the committee must ensure every item is documented and signed by all committee members. Also, in many circumstances where a vote is required, the chairman cannot vote (that's the law).

My understanding is that committe members can only be the person who is mentioned on the chanut as the owner, therefore passing 'proxies' to non owners (incl. other family members) is not legal.

There is a government agency which does random checks of condo documents. They have 'audited' our building /documenation a couple of times and have been very picky about following the laws/regulations/process, and we've been scolded for even slight errors on various documents.

The law also requires that there be a 'juristic person' which again must be an owner and this person is liable at law for any transgression of the regulations etc., and owners can quite easily sue this person.

I would suggest you also think about whether you are being exposed to risk, as you are part of the elected committee.

It would be rather interesting if you could give me the name of the government agency that does checks on condo documents. I am sure that if a complaint is lodge, they will be glad to discover that money had been spent recklessly, contracts with suppliers not done properly and there was "transgression against the regulations "with the previous juristic manager leading the pack. I believe the co-owners will love the "picky" government officers.

[ripley]

"The law also requires that there be a 'juristic person' which again must be an owner and this person is liable at law for any transgression of the regulations etc., and owners can quite easily sue this person."

Think you are mistaken here. You are referring to the "Juristic Person Manager". As obviously an entire condo population can't sign documents, this person volunteers his signature on their behalf. The JPM is duty-bound to sign anything submitted to him/her by the co-owners' representatives - the committee - unless it is challenged as or can be seen to be illegal. JPMs often have legal backgrounds of some kind, but not always. Therefore I don't think you'd get far trying to sue one, nor in the ordinary course of events should you try.

Sometimes there is no co-owner willing to take the job of JPM in which case a lawyer may be hired at a reasonable sum to assume the duties of JPM.