Are Any Public Pcs Safe?

[eggomaniac]

Is there really such a huge problem with pass word ripping at internet cafes?

One pc Forum makes it sound insane to use one.

Even copying and pasting in passwords, clicking some characters in the background and other 'tricks' to fool them are said to be useless, because it like they can 'see' any and all moves made.

The thread in the other Forum assumes every proprietor is a crook!?

I will have to log into my webmail account of my ISP and then log into my Canadian bank to pay bills.

[Samuian]

use usb stick with portable browser, use on screen keyboard and you will be fine.... or mind using public/intern cafe's all together!

http://www.pctipsbox.com/more-tricks-to-ev...-on-public-pcs/

more tricks....

check this out:

[dsfbrit]

Dont risk it. I had to use an internet cafe when I first came to Thailand to access my UK bank account. I had my identity stolen and 7000 pounds withdrawn from my account. The bank refunded the money as their terms and conditions permitted access via an internet cafe and the gang that stole my cash had committed a string of other similar offences in the UK and other countries.

Mind you I was very unlucky - as the bank required downloading of an 'active x' control and there were only 2 internet cafes in Pattaya that I could find that allowed this. The bank also required me to enter the whole passowrd each time . Daft of course, just the 1st , 2nd and 5th letter or whatever is much more sensible.

I went back to the internet cafe and watched what the people behind the counter were doing - I think they were monitoring the screens via their personal screen, not using a keylogger as such. I did not confront them about the theft as I thought it would not be worth the hassle and I could not prove it. I had after all got my money back - so a lesson learnt!

Dont ever use an internet cafe for anything other than email and games. Even entering credit card details may be a problem as some of those programs that say they use security ie Https etc... when thye send your details - may not. Paypal etc... should be OK though.

[Crushdepth]

The *only* foolproof way of circumventing software keyloggers is to bring your own operating system with you - like a live Linux CD or bootable USB drive. But that still won't cover you against hardware keyloggers.

The answer to the OP is basically no, but booting into your own OS improves safety significantly.

[Gary A]

Most Internet cafe owners are woefully ignorant and are NOT computer literate. Sometime back a farang frequented Internet cafes ans planted key loggers in every computer he used. He made his regular rounds and collected hundreds of passwords. He was eventually caught by accident. The bottom line is to NEVER do banking or password protected business on Internet cafe computers.

[britmaveric]

only use net cafe in past for checking mail or reading. Will never use it to access any financial accounts ect - one would be nuts. Now use a netbook, so dont bother with netcafes any longer.

[Beggar]

Dont risk it. I had to use an internet cafe when I first came to Thailand to access my UK bank account. I had my identity stolen and 7000 pounds withdrawn from my account. The bank refunded the money as their terms and conditions permitted access via an internet cafe and the gang that stole my cash had committed a string of other similar offences in the UK and other countries.

I think you should avoid such banks too!!! My banks have for every transaction a number you have to enter. Those numbers you get in a list. So even if you can log on you do not know the transaction number. This number is valid only for 1 transaction. So think about changing the bank - they save on your security. But I know this is a weak point in the UK and the USA. They check everything when you open an account that you are not Osama. But then that is it. But I bet on it - a guy like Osama can open as many accounts as he wants there - just a stupid law for the normal people to force them to find ways like Osama to open accounts ;-)

[cdnvic]

Buy a little netbook or cheap laptop, put a good antivirus on it and use wifi to do your banking. Once you have a SSL connection to the bank your data is secure. If you want everything else to be secure, use a VPN service.

I Use Hotspot VPN. $8-13 a month for varying levels of encryption.

[Mighty Mouse]

If you absolutely must access your bank account on-line, you can make it difficult for key loggers by entering additional key strokes into your password.

For example: Your password is 1234.

Type in 361785628303549324

Using the cursor and 'delete' button, go back and delete the additional numbers, leaving your exact password. A key logger cannot record which numbers you deleted.

The safest way is to use a USB flash drive as already suggested by other posters.

[Mighty Mouse]

If you absolutely must access your bank account on-line, you can make it difficult for key loggers by entering additional key strokes into your password.

For example: Your password is 1234.

Type in 361785628303549324

Using the cursor and 'delete' button, go back and delete the additional numbers, leaving your exact password. A key logger cannot record which numbers you deleted.

The safest way is to use a USB flash drive as already suggested by other posters.

[eggomaniac]

use usb stick with portable browser, use on screen keyboard and you will be fine.... or mind using public/intern cafe's all together!

http://www.pctipsbox.com/more-tricks-to-ev...-on-public-pcs/

more tricks....

check this out:

From what I could gather, even though I don't know pcspeak, everyone of these 'measures' can be beaten, even the stick thingy.

The only one that seems to work is some system that gives you a hundred passwords and changes passwords, at a remote, secure location, 5 minutes after you log on. I guess that means you have to carry a list of passwords and tick them off?

I have to do this once to pay bills back home. I think one of the schools I visit near Yai's house will let me use one of theirs.

I don't know if wireless is available in NST and I don't want to lug a laptop around.

Mighty Mouse, I did stuff like that last time, and copy and paste. The latest Forums say they can still rip the passwords! without 'difficulty'

For example: Your password is 1234.

Type in 361785628303549324

[vagabond48]

I have a laptop here in Thailand, but I rarely ever travel with it so when I do travel I take a burned CD with a number portable apps including firefox, toucan (an encryption program). Although not a portable app, I also burned a free program called KeyScrambler. The only thing I don't like about it is that it is NOT yet a portable app, so you have to install and added it to your browser and reboot the PC.

Although, I bring a flash drive which I used to transfer my virus free portable apps from the above CD, I rarely used it as it would get easily infected which among a number of problems would corrupt the directories rendering it useless.

I would try to use internet cafes that would let me load my portable firefox and then add KeyScrambler to it. and reboot the PC. This took care of my key logger concerns.

[dsfbrit]

Dont risk it. I had to use an internet cafe when I first came to Thailand to access my UK bank account. I had my identity stolen and 7000 pounds withdrawn from my account. The bank refunded the money as their terms and conditions permitted access via an internet cafe and the gang that stole my cash had committed a string of other similar offences in the UK and other countries.

I think you should avoid such banks too!!! My banks have for every transaction a number you have to enter. Those numbers you get in a list. So even if you can log on you do not know the transaction number. This number is valid only for 1 transaction. So think about changing the bank - they save on your security. But I know this is a weak point in the UK and the USA. They check everything when you open an account that you are not Osama. But then that is it. But I bet on it - a guy like Osama can open as many accounts as he wants there - just a stupid law for the normal people to force them to find ways like Osama to open accounts ;-)

If you only access accounts via your own PC, in your own home, with a good firewall , virus checker and scan your hard drives regualarly then you should be OK. I have one bank account that the bank sent me a key fob looking device that generates a number every 10 seconds. Pretty good I reckon - but I doubt its foolproof. To be honest, over the last year I have been choosing savings accounts in banks on the basis of whether they will go bust, rather than how good their online security access is. There is more than one way to lose a lot of cash

edit: when I go back to the UK I always use the internet facility in the bank that I have the account - if I want to do any online management. I assume THEY are at least secure!

[OriginalPoster]

The *only* foolproof way of circumventing software keyloggers is to bring your own operating system with you - like a live Linux CD or bootable USB drive. But that still won't cover you against hardware keyloggers.

The answer to the OP is basically no, but booting into your own OS improves safety significantly.

Or better yet, buy a netbook computer, take it to cybercafe or to a public wifi hotspot, and and connect through a VPN.

[OriginalPoster]

The safest way is to use a USB flash drive as already suggested by other posters.

I do that sometimes (I have Portable Firefox and a bunch of other portable apps installed on a USB flash drive) but I find it to be quite common that virusus get installed on to the USB drive when I plug it in at a cybercafe. Thus far I've been able to contain them before they spread any further than my USB drive, but it's a time waster cleaning it up. But I think that it happens just because many cybercafe operators are so inept that they don't even install virus scanning software on their computers, not because they are doing something nefarious.

[OriginalPoster]

I have a laptop here in Thailand, but I rarely ever travel with it so when I do travel I take a burned CD with a number portable apps including firefox, toucan (an encryption program). Although not a portable app, I also burned a free program called KeyScrambler. The only thing I don't like about it is that it is NOT yet a portable app, so you have to install and added it to your browser and reboot the PC.

Although, I bring a flash drive which I used to transfer my virus free portable apps from the above CD, I rarely used it as it would get easily infected which among a number of problems would corrupt the directories rendering it useless.

I would try to use internet cafes that would let me load my portable firefox and then add KeyScrambler to it. and reboot the PC. This took care of my key logger concerns.

I hadn't heard of KeyScambler before but it sounds like a good idea. From goggling it, I notice that there's a version of KeyScambler that installs as a Add-On for Firefox. If you install that add-on into the copy of Portable Firefox that you burn to your CD, would that make KeyScambler portable and elimanate the need to install it on each new PC?

[cdnvic]

The cds and USB drives won't help if there's a hardware keylogger installed.

[vagabond48]

I hadn't heard of KeyScambler before but it sounds like a good idea. From goggling it, I notice that there's a version of KeyScambler that installs as a Add-On for Firefox. If you install that add-on into the copy of Portable Firefox that you burn to your CD, would that make KeyScambler portable and elimanate the need to install it on each new PC?

Unfortunately it is not a portable application. Even though you may have copy of firefox on your usb with the add-on keyscrambler program, a different PC wont recognize the add-on link so you have to re-install keyscrambler on that PC, added again to firefox and reboot.

[vagabond48]

The cds and USB drives won't help if there's a hardware keylogger installed.

I just did more research and keyscrambler only protects you from software keyloggers who as I understand, are most likely to be the culprits grabbing your browser keyed data.

I also would avoid using an internet cafe that is frequented more by foreigners. I don't think a shop frequented by mostly locals would interest keyloggers.

Probably a dumb question, but I know copy/pasting data such as a password can be read by software loggers but what about hardware loggers? Do they see the stream of data when selecting copy or paste?

Just a bit of info on this program

How it works: The theory is that KeyScrambler installs a system driver at the kernel-driver level, allegedly before any (known) software keyloggers can gain access to your original keystrokes --- so that by the time a keylogger "sees" anything, it's already encrypted. Note that such protection is intended to combat a software keylogger, but not a hardware keylogger that's physically installed on your system. However, hardware keyloggers tend to be rare, so...

Moreover, it's theoretically possible that newer software keyloggers may someday be developed that place themselves even deeper into your system, before KeyScrambler can do its job. While there allegedly aren't any at present, this is certainly a caveat to keep in mind.

[vagabond48]

The *only* foolproof way of circumventing software keyloggers is to bring your own operating system with you - like a live Linux CD or bootable USB drive. But that still won't cover you against hardware keyloggers.

The answer to the OP is basically no, but booting into your own OS improves safety significantly.

Or better yet, buy a netbook computer, take it to cybercafe or to a public wifi hotspot, and and connect through a VPN.

I have thought about buying a light weight Asus to travel with, but where I have been in SEA outside of Thailand, I rarely notice signs of wifi available outside of airports.

[OriginalPoster]

I hadn't heard of KeyScambler before but it sounds like a good idea. From goggling it, I notice that there's a version of KeyScambler that installs as a Add-On for Firefox. If you install that add-on into the copy of Portable Firefox that you burn to your CD, would that make KeyScambler portable and elimanate the need to install it on each new PC?

Unfortunately it is not a portable application. Even though you may have copy of firefox on your usb with the add-on keyscrambler program, a different PC wont recognize the add-on link so you have to re-install keyscrambler on that PC, added again to firefox and reboot.

Can it be ThinApp'ed?

[OriginalPoster]

The *only* foolproof way of circumventing software keyloggers is to bring your own operating system with you - like a live Linux CD or bootable USB drive. But that still won't cover you against hardware keyloggers.

The answer to the OP is basically no, but booting into your own OS improves safety significantly.

Or better yet, buy a netbook computer, take it to cybercafe or to a public wifi hotspot, and and connect through a VPN.

I have thought about buying a light weight Asus to travel with, but where I have been in SEA outside of Thailand, I rarely notice signs of wifi available outside of airports.

It's true that in a lot of places wifi hotspots are hard to find, but often if you take the netbook to a cybercafe you can get away with sitting down in front of computer, unplugging the Ethernet cable from that machine, and plugging it into your own computer. In most cases, as long as you pay the proper amount of baht/minute for connecting, the cybercafe operator won't care if you use their computer or use.

Also, I find that getting a SIM card and enabling GPRS (or 3G if you're lucky enough for it to be available in the area that you're vistiting) to be worthwhile. That allows you to connect your computer in some pretty unlikely palces. I find that even GPRS is good enough in a pinch if all you want to do is acess your email and check out a bank acount or two, and in SE Asia the fees are usually much more reasoable than in the West.

[vagabond48]

I hadn't heard of KeyScambler before but it sounds like a good idea. From goggling it, I notice that there's a version of KeyScambler that installs as a Add-On for Firefox. If you install that add-on into the copy of Portable Firefox that you burn to your CD, would that make KeyScambler portable and elimanate the need to install it on each new PC?

Unfortunately it is not a portable application. Even though you may have copy of firefox on your usb with the add-on keyscrambler program, a different PC wont recognize the add-on link so you have to re-install keyscrambler on that PC, added again to firefox and reboot.

Can it be ThinApp'ed?

I am not sure exactly what you mean? Slimdown version?

[OriginalPoster]

I hadn't heard of KeyScambler before but it sounds like a good idea. From goggling it, I notice that there's a version of KeyScambler that installs as a Add-On for Firefox. If you install that add-on into the copy of Portable Firefox that you burn to your CD, would that make KeyScambler portable and elimanate the need to install it on each new PC?

Unfortunately it is not a portable application. Even though you may have copy of firefox on your usb with the add-on keyscrambler program, a different PC wont recognize the add-on link so you have to re-install keyscrambler on that PC, added again to firefox and reboot.

Can it be ThinApp'ed?

I am not sure exactly what you mean? Slimdown version?

ThinApp is a visualization product. Basically it takes a snapshot of a "clean" PC system, then you install an application, ThinApp then takes another snapshot of the system, and then it subtracts off the differences. Those differences then get packaged into a virutual enviroment that can be run portably. It's been successfull in portabilizing things such as Office, Photoshop, Acrobat, Photoshop and others. ThinApp is absorbantly expensive software but Pantip versions are available, and already ThinApped versions of certain applications can be found on torrent sites. See http://www.vmware.com/products/thinapp .

[c4charlie]

hi

personally, for email i use a thumbdrive with portable firefox, roboform2go by siber systems & i always use an https connection. if you are word processing etc, i would use the portable version of ccleaner to remove any temp. files before logging off. i would not use internet banking at an internet cafe unless it's a two stage authentication process such as those used by some UK banks.

[Jingthing]

Some of the more basic keyloggers only record keystrokes, so if you copy and paste the password characters from somewhere else, you at least can defend against the more basic keyloggers. Increases your odds is all, not secure though.

[britmaveric]

Lot of these keyloggers also give screenshots....

[vagabond48]

Some of the more basic keyloggers only record keystrokes, so if you copy and paste the password characters from somewhere else, you at least can defend against the more basic keyloggers. Increases your odds is all, not secure though.

Regarding copy/paste, I was referring only to hardware keyloggers, is that what you are referring to?.

I believe by using the plug-in program keyscrambler, I am protected from software keyloggers but not hardware ones.

[p_brownstone]

Some of the more basic keyloggers only record keystrokes, so if you copy and paste the password characters from somewhere else, you at least can defend against the more basic keyloggers. Increases your odds is all, not secure though.

Regarding copy/paste, I was referring only to hardware keyloggers, is that what you are referring to?.

I believe by using the plug-in program keyscrambler, I am protected from software keyloggers but not hardware ones.

If there is a sophisticated Keylogger on the system hardware you are using, trying to bypass any Software Keylogger with a Thumbdrive etc. will not necessarily protect you, since the Keylogger can record not only keystrokes but screenshots too.

http://www.spectorsoft.com/

As an example.

Patrick