Wp On Retirement Visa..?

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello.

The saga around my boss continues. Today he went to Immigration along with lawyer, wife and all his papers...... as always, even all papers were complete, *something* had to be found, in this case the immigration people had the idea that the marriage certificate was looking "fake" so they demanded a certificate for the certificate....... which would take time as it has to come from another province where they married 12 years ago. So an over-friendly immigration guy told him to put more money into his dedicated bank account, which my boss then did, and then he got a visa.

A (multiple entry) RETIREMENT Visa. Hence the "more money" - stocked up to 800k.

Now question is - is it possible at all to apply for (and get) a work permit on a retirement visa..??

Appreciate a quick reply as he is fuming right now (just got back through the nightmare traffic and still-flooded streets) and ready to kill someone.

Kind regards.....

Thanh

[Lite Beer]

No. Very unlikely to get a Work Permit with an Extension based on Retirement.

Some Immigration Offices want to see the certificate from the Amphur where the Marriage was registered. For the Marriage Extension.

Kor Sor 2 I think.

[thaiphoon]

Agree with LB. Very unlikely to get WP on present extension of stay.

[olsen]

You can get a WP on a retirement visa without any problems!!

Plenty of my friends have done it....at least this is the situation here in Khanom!

But maybe it differ from province to province??

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi..

What a screw-up! At least we know what happened..... it was the lawyer taking him (my boss) for a ride, and big time! And this "lawyer" is from a well known firm.

I was at my boss' place, i have seen the paperwork, and i have spoken to another guy who knows about this sort of thing and now i understand the situation.

All paperwork in hand, including pictures etc, boss, wife and "lawyer" marched into immigration to apply for an extension of stay, based on marriage. Lawyer then disappeared for several hours, appeared again to ask my boss to put more money into the bank (stating the reason as "immigration thinks the marriage certificate is fake") and disappeared again - to appear again later with the extension of stay, based on retirement.

Retirement = approx. 5,000 Baht lawyer fee.

Marriage = approx. 15,000 Baht lawyer fee.

Marriage charged and paid for, Retirement received. All clear, right? And the immigration officer whom nobody apart from the "lawyer" got to see is likely in on it. And all that *** gives now is the usual "sorry, sorry, sorry" but no offer to correct the mistake or return the money.

So all he can do now is to walk into immigration again, cancel the extension of stay, then leave the country and obtain a regular non-B outside. What a screw-up! Can *** somehow be held accountable..? After all it is more than 20k Baht wasted on a useless extension of stay (including "lawyer" fees) plus whatever it costs to cancel that plus a trip overseas to obtain a fresh visa.

One can only warn others from using these people's "service" (i have heard bad about them before, but until today morning i didn't know he was using them).

Best regards.....

Thanh

[opalhort]

I'll never understand why anybody needs a lawyer for an extension of stay.

Yes a Thai person to help with documents may be helpful but in this case the wife should be able to handle that.

The basic rules are quite clear and some additional local/regional requirements can be found out by phone or a visit to the relevant Imm office.

The point is that I think that if Imm sees a lawyer they get suspicious and scrutinize everything more thoroughly.

opalhort

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

That is because neither my boss nor his wife have any idea whatsoever about immigration rules and regulations, but both of them had already plenty of experience with Thai bureaucracy - i.e. regardless how much paper you put in front of them, you will always need one more which requires a second trip (and often a third as the regulations have changed over night). Plus to get from their place to the immigration office is a half day's journey right across Bangkok.

On the other hand said firm (which i am not allowed to name apparently, hence people will continue to fall for them) advertises with that they will do all the work for you. And only AFTER one has paid it becomes clear that one needs to do 90% of the required "work" by themselves still, only that an eventual second, third etc trip due to "missing papers" is prevented for the "lawyer" prepares all papers according to the current regulations (which appear to vary depending on weekday and person behind the counter, i been there myself - doing the exact same thing twice but was asked for different sets of papers).

I can understand my boss - i have been in similar situations, going to an authority to ask what i need, receiving the information, coming back with exactly what was asked for only to be informed that i need more, coming back a second time to hear that something has changed and i need something different...... it IS frustrating. And these "lawyer" crooks have a feast.

Kind regards......

Thanh

[opalhort]

Hi.

That is because neither my boss nor his wife have any idea whatsoever about immigration rules and regulations, ....<snip>Thanh

As your boss has been married for 12 years to a Thai it is somewhat incomprehensible that neither he or his wife has any understanding about immigration rules.

And you, Thanh, as you are posting here should be able to find all the answers you need here on Thai Visa and then advise your boss accordingly.

opalhort

EDIT: sorry mods for the <snip> in the quote but thought it is not worth to post the entire quote.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

First of all i did NOT mention the name of the firm in my second post so what was that editing for..??

Then, indeed they both don't know about the regulations. He has done his yearly visa trip, obtaining a new non-immigrant visa from abroad year after year and only now got into this stress because he wants a work permit. I DID ask for advice here and got some, too, however i am not my boss - i can make suggestions to him what to do but if he decides to go with some dubious law firm instead - not my fault. I just tried to warn people from using that firm but it is too well protected here so people will continue to be duped by them.

Thanh

[avidflyer]

The Labor law says you must have a one year non-imm to get a WP. Period. Some provincial labor offices (well, one anyway) will issue them to a non-immOR, but don't tell Immigration.

Oh, and by the way, you can't work with a retirement visa. It's a gray area with two conflicting sets of regulations. A mess to be avoided if possible, but it can be done.

[thaiphoon]

The Labor law says you must have a one year non-imm to get a WP. Period. Some provincial labor offices (well, one anyway) will issue them to a non-immOR, but don't tell Immigration.

Oh, and by the way, you can't work with a retirement visa. It's a gray area with two conflicting sets of regulations. A mess to be avoided if possible, but it can be done.

Actually, labour department regulations say that you have to be in possession of an appropriate Non-Immigration visa before they will hand over the WP. There is no requirement for it to be 12 months. Many people obtain WP's on 90 day Non-B visa, because that is all embassies/consulates in the region will issue to first time applicants.

[opalhort]

It is my understanding that you can APPLY for a WP based on any kind of permit to stay, if Labour does approve the application the applicant is then required to produce a permit of stay stamp based on a Non-Imm visa (excluding Non-Imm O-A and ED or extension based on retirement!) before they actually issue the WP. The permit of stay can even be only for 90 days.

opalhort

[thaiphoon]

It is my understanding that you can APPLY for a WP based on any kind of permit to stay, if Labour does approve the application the applicant is then required to produce a permit of stay stamp based on a Non-Imm visa (excluding Non-Imm O-A and ED or extension based on retirement!) before they actually issue the WP. The permit of stay can even be only for 90 days.

opalhort

You are correct that you can apply for WP on any kind of permission to stay. Yes labour dept wants to see Non-Imm visa at some stage, but it is not a prerequisite before they issue (prepare) the WP. People setting up new Thai companies for example may not yet have Non-Imm visa - and are applying to obtain WP3 receipt first to then apply for Non-B visa at embassy/consulate within region. They will then show passport with Non-Imm visa to labour dept at the time they collect the WP.

[InterestedObserver]

Oh, and by the way, you can't work with a retirement visa. It's a gray area with two conflicting sets of regulations. A mess to be avoided if possible, but it can be done.

What are the conflicting regulations? The Working of Aliens Act B.E. 2551 only says that you need a non-immigrant visa or extension of stay (temporary stay) to get a work permit. The immigration regulations don't regulate work permits.

[opalhort]

Hi..

...

I was at my boss' place, i have seen the paperwork, and i have spoken to another guy who knows about this sort of thing and now i understand the situation.

...

All paperwork in hand, including pictures etc, boss, wife and "lawyer" marched into immigration to apply for an extension of stay, based on marriage. Lawyer then disappeared for several hours, appeared again to ask my boss to put more money into the bank (stating the reason as "immigration thinks the marriage certificate is fake") and disappeared again - to appear again later with the extension of stay, based on retirement.

....

So all he can do now is to walk into immigration again, cancel the extension of stay, then leave the country and obtain a regular non-B outside. What a screw-up! Can *** somehow be held accountable..? After all it is more than 20k Baht wasted on a useless extension of stay (including "lawyer" fees) plus whatever it costs to cancel that plus a trip overseas to obtain a fresh visa.

....

Best regards.....

Thanh

It looks like your "lawyer" did not get it. When Imm told him about "fake" marriage certificate they actually said that they also need to see a copy of the marriage registrar's records which can only be obtained from the place where the marriage was registered.

The best thing to do now would be to leave the country (no need to visit Imm) which would kill his current extension and obtain a Non-Imm-O based on marriage with all required Documents (search this forum and you'll find the requirements) in any neighbouring country.

As an insurance he could also obtain a single re-entry permit based on his current extension for just in case a Non-Imm-O is refused (very unlikely!) so he can come back and work things out here. But somehow I have the feeling your boss may have problems juggling between re-entry permit and a new visa at the point of entry.

Once back in TH get an extension based on marriage with the correct documents!!!! And most important: DIY costs only 1,900 Baht and a bit of leg-work to get the right papers.

opalhort

[EvilDrSomkid]

Thanh, who do you think runs this forum? Think a little.

[opalhort]

Here is one more point I like to add:

If you apply for an extension based on marriage make sure the account balance is BELOW 800K!! but of course above 400K.

This disqualifies the applicant for a retirement extension.

I had this problem two years ago at Sun Plu. Always extended based in marriage but this time the bank balance (and my age) would have satisfied a retirement extension. They tried to force me into a retirement extension and it took some time to explain that I also have a WP and retirement is not an option.

Imm prefers to use the retirement option (less work for them and less hassle for the applicant) but not suitable if a WP is involved!

opalhort

[IMA_FARANG]

Hello.

The saga around my boss continues. Today he went to Immigration along with lawyer, wife and all his papers...... as always, even all papers were complete, *something* had to be found, in this case the immigration people had the idea that the marriage certificate was looking "fake" so they demanded a certificate for the certificate....... which would take time as it has to come from another province where they married 12 years ago. So an over-friendly immigration guy told him to put more money into his dedicated bank account, which my boss then did, and then he got a visa.

A (multiple entry) RETIREMENT Visa. Hence the "more money" - stocked up to 800k.

Now question is - is it possible at all to apply for (and get) a work permit on a retirement visa..??

Appreciate a quick reply as he is fuming right now (just got back through the nightmare traffic and still-flooded streets) and ready to kill someone.

Kind regards.....

Thanh

1. No. A retirement visa does not allow you to work...i.e. no work permit.

2. Word to the wise...it does no good to get angry with the people in immigration. They can always invent a reason for disqualifying you. No mater what a++holes they are you can't win.