Self Employed Specialist Work - Advice Needed

[rcrux]

I am British national living in Enland aged 49 (50 in march next year) and am wanting to travel to Thailand and teach short weekend calligraphic workshops on a self-employed basis.

I've just read through the Thai embassy's visa requirement lists and I think I need a non-immigrant visa B, and probably come under the category 'EX' as a specialist. However I can see no further reference to requirements for people of this category on the website.

Can anyone help please?

[jazzbo]

I have looked into this as someone with US Government Certification: I think you will find that 'expert' means PhD or some other (in your case) official UK designation and you must have received an invitation from a Thai Government Agency, School, or recognized NGO. For Visa and Visa-Extension purposes, there is no such thing as a self-employed 'expert'.

BTW Calligraphy in what language or script?

[monty]

You basically can't work without a work permit, regardless of your visa.

To get one you'd need a Thai company to hire you.

Temporary work permits for periods less then 2 weeks can be gotten, but again have to be applied for by an employer (company, school,...).

You cannot apply for a WP when self employed (no such status for foreigners).

[rcrux]

Thanks for your replies . Hmm - well this may be possible - being employed by a private art school in bangkok. On that basis, what length of visa/work permitcould I apply for?

The calligraphy is western calligraphy by the way, I studied with the Society of Scribes and Illuminators. I do have websites but am conscious of and respect not advertising that here. I did read somewhere that I might be able to work as long as it is something that Thais cannot do, which in my case I would think might qualify.

I just wondered how visiting artists/musicians went on as regards being able to work.

[Guest]

You can't apply for a work permit; a prospective employer has to make the application.

[jazzbo]

If you were self-employed here, what kind of work would you see yourself doing? Wedding invitations? Is it possible to adapt your skills (flat-nib?) to Thai script?

[Geekfreaklover]

I may be way off the mark here. But I seem to recall reading somewhere that there is a type of 'artist' visa that is obtainable for foreigners. For example touring muscians, film crews, visual artists etc. If such a thing exists would assume it comes under the non-im catorgory and perhaps bypasses a number of hurdles to obtain a short term work permit whilst in Thailand.

[jazzbo]

2.17 In the case of a performer in a show, entertainer, vocalist or musician performing at a hotel or engaged by a company in Thailand in the entertainment business with a registered capital of not less than Baht 20 Million, fully paid-up:

Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 120 days at a time.

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM); and

(2) Confirmation of employment given by a hotel or company engaged in the entertainment business in Thailand with a registered capital of not less than Baht 20 Million, full paid-up.

(translation courtesy Isaan Lawyers)

[jazzbo]

I am not sure that you are aware, Kuhn Rcrux, that signage and banners are a big deal in Thailand. From Government meetings, to large conventions, small conferences, and hotels welcoming groups, you will see hand-scripted (painted) banners all over the place in Thai and English depending on the venue. Every decent size city has little shops making those 3-D metal Thai letters for signage.

I do not have any specific leads, but once in BKK with maybe a Hull quickie Non-O and a portfolio in hand, I would not give up too easily.

[rcrux]

thanks so much everyone for taking the time to try and help out here...

@jazzbo.... well my work varies a lot - the teaching side i'm sure can be handled through either the private artschool of a thai friend of mine, or an ngo callled kwanpandin institute of contemplative learning - so i'll ask them about that....

but there are other aspects I'm not sure about, because I gain quite a lot of work by online means internationally :- tattoo designs for instance; main source of income is book covers and illustration which is work gained and also supplied online. So technically I might be doing that work on thai soil but for someone anywhere in the world... would that be classed as working in thailand?

I also carry out private commissions (art pieces) and might exhibit... I've approached the british council in siam square to see if they can help (no direct response as yet) for instance i was wondering if there are cultural exchange programmes?

...and if i did exhibit, would selling a piece of art constitute work?

yes I'm very aware of thai script and signage - its a calligraphers dream script and I will be learning that asap but i didn't see any english hand lettering at all during my stay.

[jazzbo]

A quick response: Teaching at a school or NGO of any kind has work permit implications.

Work you do for commissions ex-Thailand -- whether online or mailing hard-copy -- can be done as long as you remain invisible while here on Thai soil.

Work through a gallery -- this question came up recently -- may be doable without a work permit if in fact you hire the gallery to arrange for your sale. Tax implications of any sale are another matter.

You might find that Thai-American, Thai-UK, etc. Chambers of Commerce have more info on meetings, conventions, etc. where any banners are dual language, than the various Councils...

[rcrux]

A quick response: Teaching at a school or NGO of any kind has work permit implications.

Work you do for commissions ex-Thailand -- whether online or mailing hard-copy -- can be done as long as you remain invisible while here on Thai soil.

Work through a gallery -- this question came up recently -- may be doable without a work permit if in fact you hire the gallery to arrange for your sale. Tax implications of any sale are another matter.

You might find that Thai-American, Thai-UK, etc. Chambers of Commerce have more info on meetings, conventions, etc. where any banners are dual language, than the various Councils...

Cheers Jazzbo - this is all valuable info for me... these are all very new concerns for me and I don't want to mess up by doing something wrong

[jazzbo]

... just to clarify when I say to visit the Chambers of Commerce, it is find out which graphics arts shops prepare the various dual language banners and might be interested in hiring someone like yourself; not that you should be doing work, as you earlier said, as self-employed.

[greytown]

Interesting topic. I would be interested also in hearing from anyone who knows more details about visas for visual artists.

[thaiphoon]

Getting the visa (Non-B/Non-O) is not so much the problem. It is the work permit, and that requires sponsorship from a Thai company.

[dandun]

Also another option is that you can register an 100 percent export company and obtain work permit through it. With the 100 percent export company you can have 99 percent of the shares and only 1 percent goes to a Thai national. But the problem with having a company like that is you can not sell anything within Thailand, everything you buy or create must be sold to an international company. To get a work permit through an export company is unfortunately same as all other companies, you must have 4 Thai employees.

[Mario2008]

Interesting topic. I would be interested also in hearing from anyone who knows more details about visas for visual artists.

The visa will not be the problem, getting an extension of stay and work permit will be. For artist there is only 2.17, meant for performers.

2.17 In the case of a performer in a show, entertainer, vocalist or musician performing at a hotel or engaged by a company in Thailand in the entertainment business with a registered capital of not less than Baht 20 Million, fully paid-up:

Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 120 days at a time.

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM); and

(2) Confirmation of employment given by a hotel or company engaged in the entertainment business in Thailand with a registered capital of not less than Baht 20 Million, full paid-up

[joorakee]

You cannot apply for a WP when self employed (no such status for foreigners).

Are there no freelancers in Thailand?

I really doubt it.

[Mario2008]

You cannot apply for a WP when self employed (no such status for foreigners).

Are there no freelancers in Thailand?

I really doubt it.

There might be, but as Monty said, they will not have a work permit and will be working illegally.

[jazzbo]

I think Kuhn Joorakee's 'freelancer', will not have a work permit, will be working illegally, WILL be self-employed, and she will not accept credit cards.

[joorakee]

I think Kuhn Joorakee's 'freelancer', will not have a work permit, will be working illegally, WILL be self-employed, and she will not accept credit cards.

I didn't mean such "freelancers".

Was thinking about freelance writers/journalists, translators, photographers, art designers etc.

[monty]

I didn't mean such "freelancers".

Was thinking about freelance writers/journalists, translators, photographers, art designers etc.

There probably are a fair few around, some of them working illegally, while some will have set up their own company limited and hired a few Thai staff so as to have that company apply for their work permits.

Also I assume a lot of them are working part time for a big company (publisher, newspaper, etc) for which they hold a work permit, and then maybe do some jobs freelance on the side.

[jazzbo]

Apologies Kuhn Joorakee but the emoticon in your earlier post had me believe you DID mean such freelancers.

A media freelancer by definition is someone who is paid on a piece accepted or assignment by assignment basis and is generally not employed by anyone full-time. In LOS because of work restrictions, I guess you can set-up your own company with yourself as an employee with a WP and then the COMPANY accepts freelance assignment or submits items on spec.

It would seem difficult for any major media organization IN Thailand to pay a freelancer for items accepted if they did not hold a WP... outside of Thailand, they maybe could not care less.

BTW The Royal Thai Consulate in New York has the following item entitled Guidance for Foreign Journalists Who Wish to Work in Thailand: http://www.thaiconsulnewyork.com/english/work.pdf

which then refers you to this page which includes filming requirements: http://www.mfa.go.th/web/830.php

Note: I was never involved in media itself but purchased TV/radio time and newspaper space for advertising clients.

[lopburi3]

Are we talking about ladies of the night or journalists? I suspect your post #20 could be taken to mean the former.

[jazzbo]

Lady journalists.

[rcrux]

Also another option is that you can register an 100 percent export company and obtain work permit through it. With the 100 percent export company you can have 99 percent of the shares and only 1 percent goes to a Thai national. But the problem with having a company like that is you can not sell anything within Thailand, everything you buy or create must be sold to an international company. To get a work permit through an export company is unfortunately same as all other companies, you must have 4 Thai employees.

thanks for all the responses, its a bit bewildering what to do really...but this might be an interesting option.

Most of my work comes in online from western publishers (book cover work) or private individuals (maybe tattoo designs or other private commissions) , so if this idea is feasible...

1)how do i set up an export company?

2)If I have to employ 4 thai staff, on what basis? full time /part time/contractual/any restrictions or stipulations?

I don't want to put myself on the wrong side of thai authorities as I have a relationship with a thai national and may want to ultimately stay permanently if that is possible. This is all very new for me so please forgive my total ignorance. She is the owner of a company who could get me a work permit to teach, but it would still mean my freelance artwork which is what I love would be illegal. How would the situation change if we were to marry for instance?

I'm planning coming to Thailand in the new year for two or three months (maybe on a 12 month multi entry visa or maybe just a one month tourist visa and then renew as much as I can) living on savings - the freelance work may or may not come in while I am there.

How does it work?... to get any kind of visa, do I have to stipulate my return to uk date and state a flight number ? (as I did when I came over in september last on a 30 day tourist visa)... I was told at the travel agent I cannot book an open ticket to TL - but I can change my return flight later. If I do that , does it invalidate the visa? Do I have to get the visa first before I book the flight or vise versa? ...feeling totally confused

[lopburi3]

There is no 30 day tourist visa for a British national so your last trip was with no visa - and that requires onward travel within the allowed 30 day period. Travel with a visa has no restriction and one way travel is allowed. At an honorary Consulate you are not likely to have to provide return travel information.

[Tingnongnoi]

I didn't mean such "freelancers".

Was thinking about freelance writers/journalists, translators, photographers, art designers etc.

There probably are a fair few around, some of them working illegally, while some will have set up their own company limited and hired a few Thai staff so as to have that company apply for their work permits.

Also I assume a lot of them are working part time for a big company (publisher, newspaper, etc) for which they hold a work permit, and then maybe do some jobs freelance on the side.

yep for a media work permit such as photojournalist, you need at least one news agent, be it magazine, newspaper etc... to sponsor your application