Marriage - What's The Difference Between 'legal' & 'traditional' ?

[via]

Could someone reading this kindly offer an explanation as to the legal advantages, & or disadvantages (if any) of a 'traditional', & a 'legal' marriage between a foreign citizen & a Thai national - when undertaken in Thailand ???

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My other questions are :

1) What are the legal implications - considerations (in Thai law) for either party involved - when married in the 'traditional' manner, over the 'legal' marriage procedure ????

2) If marriage is solemnized (blessed) @ a Thai Buddhist Temple by an Abbot - is this considered as a 'traditional', or as a 'legal' marriage ????

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I do realise that getting married @ the local 'district office' - is the 'legal' path to follow for those wishing it !!

I read elsewhere on the Forum that getting married @ the local 'amphur' - is considered as only 'traditional' !!

Any clarification offered on the above would be highly appreciated !!

[lopburi3]

A marriage in Thailand must be registered at a district office in Thailand to be legal. This can be done at the same time as a traditional ceremony but the legal aspect is the paperwork from the district office, be it done in the office or outside.

[Canada]

Not registering your marriage at the district office is probably a good way of protecting assets in your home country if you intend to take your new bride home with you. However, not legally marrying her means that you would not be applying for a visa for your wife; she would be your girlfriend or fiancee.....translated....good luck, unless she can get there on her own accord.

If you own land here...you don't....regardless of whether or not you are married to her.

[via]

Thank you gents - I am trying to establish the fundamental diifference between a Thai 'legal' & a Thai 'traditional' marriage !!

And what the associated advantages & or disadvantages are for both parties involved !!

I am doing some groundwork & research !!

My other question is : Does one get married only in the 'traditional' manner, or only in the 'legal' - or should one combine the both - - and do these two aspects carry more advantages, & or disadvantages (if any) for a foreign citizen over 50 wishing to reside in Thailand ?????

Thank you Lopburi your comment & advise appreciated !!

Thank you Canada - your post is well noted & appreciated !!

[Lite Beer]

If you do not register the marriage you are not married . Simple as that.

[Mosha]

If you are over 50 and 800,000 Baht in a Thai bank or a pension income of 65,000/month, you can get a visa extension based on pension. The marriage question is entirely up to you. If you legally marry you can do a religious one if you wish. You can also just do either, but if you only do the "traditional" you aren't married in the eyes of the law. However many Thais just go for the "traditional" wedding.

[via]

Thank you gents Lite Beer & Mosha - your comments & clarity on my questions much appreciated !!

[Jonathanpattaya]

Sorry, I mis-read previous posts.

[Nomad97]

As I understand it to be, a traditional Thai village wedding only confers approval from both families for you to live together with your partner. In the legal sense of the word you are not really married and any children you may have would be born out of wedlock. As far as Thailand and the rest of the World are concerned you are not 'man and wife'. To the best of my knowledge Thailand does not have a 'common law' husband and wife concept.

On the other hand, when you have gone through the process of obtaining an 'Affirmation of freedom to marry' letter from your embassy, having such translated letter certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and then getting married in the Town Hall through the official registrar, then you are properly and legally married. Such a marriage is recognised as such anywhere in the world.

The question for you is, do you want to get married or just live with your girlfriend? The choice is that simple.

[Mosha]

All I can say to the last answer is. I came out to spend 6 minths or so with my now wife. The plan was to see if we were OK being together for a period of time. After 5 months people would ask "Is this your wife?" I would respond not yet. A few times of answering like this and Sopha said, "Why do tou tell people I am not your wife?" She clearly considered us married, and we hadn't gone through any ceremony or documentation. Believe me if you are together for 6 months, you are considered married by your significant other.

[CosmicSurfer]

Thai women have a different attitude to the Moral requirements of a legal marriage.. this is a cultural difference.. and if they are in a live-in relationship they consider themselves married, whether legal or not, whether their partners are Thai or Farang!

But the government does not recognize this as a legally binding relationship in any way.

However, in the case of a Long-term common-law relationship, there could be some material and financial ramifications to a breakup.. even court directed.. so Take that into consideration as well.

As to the Religious significance of a Traditional marriage... In Thai Buddhism there in NONE !!!

In Thailand, Marriage is a Civil concept only.

By the time in the "Traditional" ceremony that you actually become "Husband & Wife" the Monks are long gone.. and there are no weddings preformed at Thai temples.. only at homes, restaurants or Hotels, etc,,,, Monks attend early to bless the Household and marriage.. but that is not part of any ceremony.. you are actually married later.

First, Unlike western marriages, where the Officiating religious Authority has rights granted by the Civil government to preform and legally record marriages, those rights do not exist here. The Only legal ceremony is actually bureaucratic and unromantic.. signing of the "Book" at the local provincial office (Amphur or Phet).

Secondly, there is no actual marriage ceremony in the Buddhist religion.. remember Buddha abandoned his wife and son.. so he never incorporated one or felt the need... The same way many aspects of Thai Buddhism incorporates Hindu aspects, Thais have adopted tradition practices from non-Buddhist religions and call them traditional... The most important aspect being the paying of a Bride's price... (by definition a Dowry is paid for a groom, not bride.)

As a test, ask your Thai friends exactly When in a traditional ceremony do you actually become Husband and Wife... 95-98% will not be able to tell you, and the rest may know, but they will still indicate that they are not sure...

There is no "I now pronounce you..." moment in a Traditional ceremony!

FYI - The actual moment of a traditional marriage occurs when you are joined together with a Head garland, and water is poured over your hands by Friends and family.

So.. as they say in LOS...

Up-2-U

CS

[Moonrakers]

If you do not register the marriage you are not married . Simple as that.

This.

It's that black and white really, regardless of what others may say about culture etc.

[via]

Thanks to all concerned for all your comments, & explanation on this topic ... and your time taken to write & post ..

My appreciation to Nomad 97, .. & Cosmic Surfer .... for your most informative, & indepth reply-input ...

To Mosha .. an interesting read ... your last comment.

Now i've a clearer understanding between the (two) different apects of a 'legal' & a 'traditional' marriage in Thailand

I'm obliged to you all

[bina]

marriage is recognised as such anywhere in the world

actually, NOT. some of us live in countries where mixed marriages are not accepted and even if u are legally married thru the MFA and amphur (and in my country they only accept marriage registration from amphur office in bangkok, no where else) u still have to go thru a whole rigamarole thru your embassy and back at home (took me a year to be listed as married on my ID card, for instance)...

teh wedding ceremony is varied, depending on what area of thailand u are from, amount of money, age of people, previously divorced and cultural background of the thai side of the wedding (issan, hill tribe, chinese thai, muslem thai - in which case an immmam would be used, as thai friends of mine did- her muslem, him buddhist)-- but once the sin sot is given, u are considered 'married' in the eyes of the villagers for the most part. my husband gave me the gold baht necklace and his family considered us married, one year later we did a village ceremony in korat, and also the amphur in bangkok /tranlsations/registrations deal. one year after that, my country changed my marital status from 'under discussion' to 'married'.

my country and thailand recognize only the 'official' dates of the marriage, not the village ceremony.

the ceremony itself is just an aknowlegment by the community that we are a 'couple'. there is nothing 'religous about it , wiht a lot of hindu ceremonial aspects (white chalk painted on forehead, a village elder mumbling in some lanuage maybe pali , hubby wasnt sure either, water pouring ceremony, etc etc etc...it started at 5 a.m. adn finished at 9 a.m. and no monks. we went the day before to the wat for a 'talk' with a cousin monk.)

bina

israel

[BOS2BKK]

I just want to add one point you may not have considered. I am not sure where your from, Canada's reply may be correct for Canada, but not the US. For whatever bizarre bureaucratic reason it is infinitely easier to get a Fiancee visa to the US than to get a marriage visa. If you are legally married in Thailand you have no choice but to get the marriage visa. The Fiancee visa is relatively easy, and you have 3 months to marry within the US or the fiancee has to return to their home country, and you can get them as often as you like even for the same person. As long as she never breaks the 3 month rule, you just put on the application that you had reservations, and would like to try again. This is something else to consider if you think you may take your girlfriend to the US someday.

[lopburi3]

A Thai spouse can obtain a tourist visa the same as anyone else - and in most cases this will be valid for 10 years.

If they want to live in the US then an immigrant visa would be required; but not for travel and return to Thailand. And the difference in time between finance and spouse is not normally that great anymore as they have tried to make them more equal.

[MikeyIdea]

One other thing to take into consideration is this:

If you legally register the marriage, then the husband and wife together by law share the responsibility for debt. If your legal wife builds up debt, then you as legal husband are by law responsible to pay up, and vice versa. I understand it as a court will order you to pay up regardless of if you gave your consent to your wive's spending or not, and the only thing you can do is to pay first and then sue your wife to get the money back, which of course you never will get

I'm 99% sure, can someone confirm with a nice and even 100%

Mikey

[astral]

The Legal marriage takes 5 minutes with a minimal cost.

The Traditional marriage takes all day and costs a fortune.

Only the legal marriage will count for visa purposes.

As indicated, Legal marriage can have consequence for your assets if it does not last.