Adolph Hitler Removed From Pattaya

[sicknote]

Why did they not just replace Hitler with Elvis?

[Publicus]

Others have been in Thailand longer than I, but after ten years in LOS I'm sure Thais do the Nazi and swastika stuff intentionally to offend and rile falang. The Nazi paraphanalia is just too ever present and consistently brandished over time to be otherwise.

I passed a market one time about five years ago which had three national flags side by side on display sale: the US, UK and the Nazi swastika flag between them. The occurrences are too obvious, regular and flagrant to be unknowing by most of the Thais who do it.

The museum apologist sounded too ready, understanding and cooperative to be innocent.

[jontom]

I am not at all surprised that the Thais had no idea why this may upset people. I have been a teacher in Thailand for 5 years and most of my M5 and M6 kids in a Government school didnt know which country was on which side in WW2. In Bangkok Christian College an expensive, top private school in Bangkok, they used a theme with Adolph Hitler in it for a sports day parade. Some Thai teachers were photographed alongside the pictures of Hitler doing the Nazi salute,not because they are evil just because they are ignorant.I fully concur with the comments about a ruling elite having a vested interest in keeping things this way. Look around any of the schools and look at how much evidence there is of this.My GF also didn't know what WW2 was about and even who Hitler was. God bless the Thais!

[john b good]

Don't blame the Thais - blame their education system.

Interesting. Is there some other nationality in charge of the Thai education system?

Exactly!!

The education in the realm is a joke.

Even Thai's who have been educated overseas at prestigious universities don't know any better.

You can take the girl out of the bar but you can't take the bar out of the girl.

Same thing people who want to live in their own little world will never know anything outside that little world.

[mrtoad]

Why did they not just replace Hitler with Elvis?

Or Thaksin.

[Huey]

A very smart marketing trick by the museum. They got all the world media coverage they wanted, for cheap.

of course it remains to be seen whether people will show up and pay after this controversy

i'm sure there will be some boycotting

Looks like a case of unplanned 'viral marketing' whereby everyone from news sites to social networking sites willingly pass it along due shock or sensation 'value'. Many websites also thrive on such fodder or 'infotainment'. Makes for great page clicks and produces a lot of extra ad sponsors revenue from 'page impressions' (whether viewers actually click any banners or not, or whether sponsors approve of content or not;)

It was reported last week that the billboard company received complaints from both the German and Israel Ambassadors along with hundreds of calls before covering Adolf over. All in all, a 'successful' campaign for the wax museum (and others;)

Good Point, I bet business will definitely see a pick up over the next few weeks to a month. I still wouldn't have taken down the add though. As a privately owned Thai company what could either embassy really do to them? Should have at least waited to see if a Thai authority asked them. Then sure take it down, but otherwise they are cutting their viral advertising short, needlessly.

[Foggy Bottom]

Thailand was not officially invaded, and gave right of passage to the Japanese so that they could enter Burma and Malaysia. It is also worth noting that Thailand did declare war on Britain and the United States after signing a treaty of alliance with Japan, so maybe you should have listened a little more carefully.

ABSOLUTE TWADDLE !!!

The Japanese invaded Thailand at Prachuap Khiri Khan where a battle raged for 48 hours before the provincial governor, under orders from Bangkok, ordered the Air Force troops to desist as Thailand had surrendered to the Japanese.

Simultaneously with that landing, the Japanese also landed in Pattani and Songkla to spring-board into Malaya with the intent to take Singapore - it being the main British stronghold in the region.

Pre-invasion, the government had sympathies with Japan and were disfavoured of and by the Allies. However, having seen what Japan had done in East Indo-China, the government was hovering on coming into the war on the side of the western powers, as they had done in WW-ONE. The Japanese invasion has been reported in some histories, as having been brought forward in order to stop Thailand allying with the west.

Yes the Japanese invaded, yes, the Thai government operated much like Vichy France did, but to the Japanese under the Bushido code, Thais had zero value and were chattels not people. They treated the Thais accordingly, in line with Bushido.

I still have a 1998/99 copy of the Rough Guide to Thailand in the introduction of which, it states that Thai people have still not forgiven the Japanese for the atrocities of WW2 and that Japanese in Thailand are heavily discriminated against. That was just 10 years ago (though I've never seen evidence of what the book says in those ten years).

It helps to conduct proper and thorough research before posting on public forums - just as it does when writing books or magazine features

[chiangdan]

Nothing upset´s me anymore when it comes to Thai´s .. you just have to love them! 555

Little did i know about Thailand and Thai culture 10 years ago so how could they know about this .. told GF about Hitler , WWII etc. couple of years ago and she had never heard about it so dont blame Thai People , blame the regime!

How could she not know about it? WWII is part of thai history. Thais sided with the Japanese, Japan sided with Germany (Hitler) Has she never heard of the infamous Thai/Burma Railway and the bridge over the River Kwai? We learnt in schools of the treatment afforded to allied prisoners of war at the hands of Thai and Japanese soldiers during the building of the Thai / Burma Railway from Bangkok through to burma

I never heard that the Thai Kingdom was Japanese Ally before, have never seen any reference to Allied troops fighting Thai troops?? My father fought in the SE Asian theatre, and he never mentioned Thai. I will check further, but I suspect its someone huffing and puffing

January 1942 Thailand declared war on the US and british empire...

[OzMick]

Different cultures do seem to have trouble understanding each other, and at least some of it has to do with not being able to read the language. I have seen Thais wearing "White Power" t-shirts and another shirt with flowers and a poem under the heading "With Deepest Sympathy". Also recall some years back a report of an easter display in a Japanese dept. store with a crucified Santa Claus.

All these can be explained by lack of education. Finding moral equivalence of Hitler's regime and Israel or the USA is pure ignorance.

I do have two questions though. How many victories are listed on the BKK Victory Monument? Why do the BIB always seem to have a chest full of campaign ribbons?

[Jingthing]

Don’t criticize Thailand for not being an audience to western Jewish propaganda.

Mao was responsible for killing 50 million around the same time Hilter was supposed to have killed 1 million jews. How many Europeans know that? Ask Thais if they have heard of Mao Zedong and they certainly have.

In the west we are constantly reminded of the holocaust some are even jailed for denying it. I come from Jewish owned country, England.

Biggest contributor to Gordon Browns government = Rothschild.

The food Chain = Tesco,

Who owns more property in London than the Queen?

Sorry to have a different opinion but I enjoy living in Thailand a non jew owned country. Immigration is still about Thai people and others are guests. Have a look around London. Who finances those immigration policies to undermine the natives of England?

Don't be sorry, you are a very interesting fellow.

I have indeed noticed a lot of antisemitism among expats in Thailand. I have noticed almost NO antisemitism among Thais, to Thais my feeling is they mostly think farangs are farangs (sorry if that is a crude generalization). Thanks for explaining why. You like Thailand because it is a "non jew owned country." When Thais ask you why you like their country, is that what you say? I would love to see their reaction to that one. In the UK, how does the "jew owned" issue impact you? Are you forced to not answer the phone on Saturdays or do you object to the forced feedings of chopped chicken liver? Or more probably, you are not happy with your life, and it feels good to have a SCAPEGOAT to blame all your problems on?

Edited October 20, 2009 by Jingthing

[Pui]

Don’t criticize Thailand for not being an audience to western Jewish propaganda.

Mao was responsible for killing 50 million around the same time Hilter was supposed to have killed 1 million jews. How many Europeans know that? Ask Thais if they have heard of Mao Zedong and they certainly have.

In the west we are constantly reminded of the holocaust some are even jailed for denying it. I come from Jewish owned country, England.

Biggest contributor to Gordon Browns government = Rothschild.

The food Chain = Tesco,

Who owns more property in London than the Queen?

Sorry to have a different opinion but I enjoy living in Thailand a non jew owned country. Immigration is still about Thai people and others are guests. Have a look around London. Who finances those immigration policies to undermine the natives of England?

I have indeed noticed a lot of antisemitism among expats in Thailand. I have noticed almost NO antisemitism among Thais, to Thais my feeling is they mostly think farangs are farangs (sorry if that is a crude generalization). Thanks for explaining why. You like Thailand because it is a "non jew owned country." When Thais ask you why you like their country, is that what you say? I would love to see their reaction to that one.

Please don't take that out of context. I enjoy living in a country where the sun shines as well.

Where the certain groups don't control the media "Freedom of press my foot"

Thais have heard of Mao Zedong

[Felt 35]

I don't find any humour whatsoever in this issue, and anyone who considers there is any humour in it has a very sick mind.

It is also indicative that so many people (denizens of the realm) have so little awareness of recent history that they might even think or consider engaging or being a party in such gross ignorance.

But then if it weren't for the allied forces there would be no Thai language spoken would there ?

There would be one language and that would be Japanese.

People have selective and very short memories.

Very well said

[sicknote]

Google "hitler xbox live" if you haven't seen it before it will surely bring a smile to your face. It's the youtube one your after.

[chiangdan]

Don’t criticize Thailand for not being an audience to western Jewish propaganda.

Mao was responsible for killing 50 million around the same time Hilter was supposed to have killed 1 million jews. How many Europeans know that? Ask Thais if they have heard of Mao Zedong and they certainly have.

In the west we are constantly reminded of the holocaust some are even jailed for denying it. I come from Jewish owned country, England.

Biggest contributor to Gordon Browns government = Rothschild.

The food Chain = Tesco,

Who owns more property in London than the Queen?

Sorry to have a different opinion but I enjoy living in Thailand a non jew owned country. Immigration is still about Thai people and others are guests. Have a look around London. Who finances those immigration policies to undermine the natives of England?

Don't be sorry, you are a very interesting fellow.

I have indeed noticed a lot of antisemitism among expats in Thailand. I have noticed almost NO antisemitism among Thais, to Thais my feeling is they mostly think farangs are farangs (sorry if that is a crude generalization). Thanks for explaining why. You like Thailand because it is a "non jew owned country." When Thais ask you why you like their country, is that what you say? I would love to see their reaction to that one. In the UK, how does the "jew owned" issue impact you? Are you forced to not answer the phone on Saturdays or do you object to the forced feedings of chopped chicken liver? Or more probably, you are not happy with your life, and it feels good to have a SCAPEGOAT to blame all your problems on?

In 1939, Phibun changed the country name from Siam to Thailand. The regime also embarked upon a course of economic nationalism, in which the Thai people were to support only Thai products and therefore destroy the Chinese grip on the market. Anti-Chinese policies were also undertaken; indeed, in a speech in 1938 Luang Wichit compared the Chinese in Siam to the Jews in Germany.

Phibun as Prime Minister

Is there a Hitler link here???

Edited October 20, 2009 by chiangdan

[mrtoad]

Thailand was not officially invaded, and gave right of passage to the Japanese so that they could enter Burma and Malaysia. It is also worth noting that Thailand did declare war on Britain and the United States after signing a treaty of alliance with Japan, so maybe you should have listened a little more carefully.

ABSOLUTE TWADDLE !!!

The Japanese invaded Thailand at Prachuap Khiri Khan where a battle raged for 48 hours before the provincial governor, under orders from Bangkok, ordered the Air Force troops to desist as Thailand had surrendered to the Japanese.

Simultaneously with that landing, the Japanese also landed in Pattani and Songkla to spring-board into Malaya with the intent to take Singapore - it being the main British stronghold in the region.

Pre-invasion, the government had sympathies with Japan and were disfavoured of and by the Allies. However, having seen what Japan had done in East Indo-China, the government was hovering on coming into the war on the side of the western powers, as they had done in WW-ONE. The Japanese invasion has been reported in some histories, as having been brought forward in order to stop Thailand allying with the west.

Yes the Japanese invaded, yes, the Thai government operated much like Vichy France did, but to the Japanese under the Bushido code, Thais had zero value and were chattels not people. They treated the Thais accordingly, in line with Bushido.

I still have a 1998/99 copy of the Rough Guide to Thailand in the introduction of which, it states that Thai people have still not forgiven the Japanese for the atrocities of WW2 and that Japanese in Thailand are heavily discriminated against. That was just 10 years ago (though I've never seen evidence of what the book says in those ten years).

It helps to conduct proper and thorough research before posting on public forums - just as it does when writing books or magazine features ;)

Well thank you for quoting me, and I apologise for maybe not making my point clear -just like the person that posted that Thailand hadn't sided with the Japanese.

Can you tell me what points that I had got wrong in relation to invasion, occupation, right of passage and signing a treaty of alliance? Whilst I don't think the Thais had a lot of choice in allowing Japan passage, it is undeniable that the government did show sympathies with Japan, signed a treaty and declared war on the US and Britain.

[dave_boo]

Why doesn't the museum have a similar viral marketing campaign directed towards Thais featuring Thanom Kittikachorn? They could have a slogan along the lines "Thai education gets you dead"......

[BOS2BKK]

Don't forget the Thais Allied with the Axis powers during WWII. It didn't work out so well for them, because the Japanese took it to mean they invaded Thailand without firing a shot, and then proceeded to subjugate rural Thais as a conquered people. Anyone who knows Thailand, knows mistakes of any kind are quickly glossed over and ignored.

Edited October 20, 2009 by raro
Comment about Monarchy deleted

[PawyiLee]

...Thailand was not officially invaded, and gave right of passage to the Japanese so that they could enter Burma and Malaysia. It is also worth noting that Thailand did declare war on Britain and the United States after signing a treaty of alliance with Japan, so maybe you should have listened a little more carefully.

Japan did invade Thailand, and Thailand was on both sides of the war at the same time. See "Slice of Thai History: The Japanese invasion of Thailand, 8 December 1941 (part one)" at http://www.pattayamail.com/504/columns.shtml#hd6

To read more, change the digits 504 to those in front of the colon:

Japanese invasion of Thailand

504: Background

505: 8 December 1941: 0105 hours

506: [9 December 1941 - 25 January 1942]

See also:

Foreign Journalist's view [1935]

514: Did Japan dominate Thailand?

517: Rise of state-sponsored militarism and socialism

494: Tarutao: island of prisoners and pirates [1937-1949]

Thai invasion and occupation of Shan States

507: 1942

508: 1943-45

Death Railway

489: Background-Fall of Singapore [1942]

490: From Changi to Kanchanaburi [1942-43]

500: Construction of Chiang Mai-Burma Road [1942-1945]

Air war over Thailand, 1941-1945

512: Japan moves into Thailand, December 1941

513: Allies attack Thailand, 1942-1945

Escape from Bangkok 1945

557: Shot Down and Rescued

558: (Continued)

559: To Bangkok

560: The First Escape

562: The Final Escape

[sassienie]

Dumb decision, he's one of the most famous figures in history, good reason to have a wax carricature. It's unfortunate a few imbeciles can choose what the rest of us can and can't see. The museum just needs to ensure that his portayal is done in a tasteful manner, which the comment probably didn't do but that's an easy fix and doesn't require him removed.

It's odd that nazi sensitivity has grown with time rather than fallen, a sure sign people (you know who) are milking it.

Below are 2 good reasons why a placard of Hitler displayed in all his glory should be taken down.

My grandfather during WW1 and my Dad during WW2.

British, proud and of Jewish ancestry.

For them knowing that if the Germans would have invaded Britain they would have ended up as lining for a storm troopers Jack boots gave them even more reasons to fight and defend their country at all costs.

For many people who lost family and friends during the 2 world worlds, these images still hold painful memories.

The 2 world wars are still in living memory and for many is a sensitive subject.

The feelings of the old war veterans and for those who lived through it should be considered.

Quite right to take down that poster and let it be thrown into the dustbin of history, where it belongs.

Twice we did the Germans down.

Rule Britannia.

[webfact]

Topic title: Adolph Hitler Removed From Pattaya

We are not discussing a topic about WWII or the construction of the Thailand/Burma Railway during Japanese occupation.

Please stay on topic

off-topic posters will receive warnings

[ronz28]

60+ million people died in World War II from all over the world as you can see by country at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

Many died due to the Japanese but most deaths were caused by Hitler's genocide and war. Many men had to spend 5+ years of their lives in the military at war away from their families and home because of Hitler. Your fathers, uncles or grandfathers who fought in World War II probably told you about these hardships and the deaths of friends and relatives during World War II. I heard more about Hitler and what he caused from my father and on TV than I learned in school. An image of such a monster appearing to welcome people to Pattaya was offensive and its about time public pressure is getting rid of it.

[321niti123]

I think the "Hitler is not dead" implies that the wax figures look so real that you wouldn't believe that Hitler is dead, and i think that europeans should start taking their own advice about freedom of speech. And hitler isnt that bad a man, he was just a bit insane, well maybe not a bit.

[mrtoad]

...Thailand was not officially invaded, and gave right of passage to the Japanese so that they could enter Burma and Malaysia. It is also worth noting that Thailand did declare war on Britain and the United States after signing a treaty of alliance with Japan, so maybe you should have listened a little more carefully.

Japan did invade Thailand, and Thailand was on both sides of the war at the same time. See "Slice of Thai History: The Japanese invasion of Thailand, 8 December 1941 (part one)" at http://www.pattayamail.com/504/columns.shtml#hd6

To read more, change the digits 504 to those in front of the colon:

Japanese invasion of Thailand

504: Background

505: 8 December 1941: 0105 hours

506: [9 December 1941 - 25 January 1942]

See also:

Foreign Journalist's view [1935]

514: Did Japan dominate Thailand?

517: Rise of state-sponsored militarism and socialism

494: Tarutao: island of prisoners and pirates [1937-1949]

Thai invasion and occupation of Shan States

507: 1942

508: 1943-45

Death Railway

489: Background-Fall of Singapore [1942]

490: From Changi to Kanchanaburi [1942-43]

500: Construction of Chiang Mai-Burma Road [1942-1945]

Air war over Thailand, 1941-1945

512: Japan moves into Thailand, December 1941

513: Allies attack Thailand, 1942-1945

Escape from Bangkok 1945

557: Shot Down and Rescued

558: (Continued)

559: To Bangkok

560: The First Escape

562: The Final Escape

[ryladie99]

Nothing upset´s me anymore when it comes to Thai´s .. you just have to love them! 555

Little did i know about Thailand and Thai culture 10 years ago so how could they know about this .. told GF about Hitler , WWII etc. couple of years ago and she had never heard about it so dont blame Thai People , blame the regime!

Thai people are very free and positive about the way they see the world, they are so easyt about their lives, and you Farangs who live in Thailand many years should know better...Just tell the Thai and let them know about your hurtful feeling. After that they will do the appropriate action for you...

After 911 incident I got a call from my Thai friend who wanted to send me Bin Laden Tee shirts. She said they sold them in the markets...I was not too happy about this but, could not laugh so hard about her well intention, she really meant no harm just want to give me stuffs...after I explained to her she apologized

and felt so bad. I knew she did not mean no harm...well that is my take and opinion.

[Pui]

Don’t criticize Thailand for not being an audience to western Jewish propaganda.

Mao was responsible for killing 50 million around the same time Hilter was supposed to have killed 1 million jews. How many Europeans know that? Ask Thais if they have heard of Mao Zedong and they certainly have.

In the west we are constantly reminded of the holocaust some are even jailed for denying it. I come from Jewish owned country, England.

Biggest contributor to Gordon Browns government = Rothschild.

The food Chain = Tesco,

Who owns more property in London than the Queen?

Sorry to have a different opinion but I enjoy living in Thailand a non jew owned country. Immigration is still about Thai people and others are guests. Have a look around London. Who finances those immigration policies to undermine the natives of England?

Don't be sorry, you are a very interesting fellow.

I have indeed noticed a lot of antisemitism among expats in Thailand. I have noticed almost NO antisemitism among Thais, to Thais my feeling is they mostly think farangs are farangs (sorry if that is a crude generalization). Thanks for explaining why. You like Thailand because it is a "non jew owned country." When Thais ask you why you like their country, is that what you say? I would love to see their reaction to that one. In the UK, how does the "jew owned" issue impact you? Are you forced to not answer the phone on Saturdays or do you object to the forced feedings of chopped chicken liver? Or more probably, you are not happy with your life, and it feels good to have a SCAPEGOAT to blame all your problems on?

I enjoy living in Thailand for many reasons. Although i love England I hate whats happened to it.

Please don't think me antisemitic.

My point was 50 million died at the hands of Mao and Thais HAVE heard of him.

We must not force our views on Thai people. They are certainly not ignorant for not knowing that much about Hitler.

You could say western people are ignorant for not knowing about Mao Zedong.

Hilter gets different coverage in the west. Its not antisemitic to point out that there are a disproportionate amount of Jewish people in western media. Its an objective statement and well known fact.

We are allowed to question the western media.

[mrtoad]

I enjoy living in Thailand for many reasons. Although i love England I hate whats happened to it.

Please don't think me antisemitic.

My point was 50 million died at the hands of Mao and Thais HAVE heard of him.

We must not force our views on Thai people. They are certainly not ignorant for not knowing that much about Hitler.

You could say western people are ignorant for not knowing about Mao Zedong.

Hilter gets different coverage in the west. Its not antisemitic to point out that there are a disproportionate amount of Jewish people in western media. Its an objective statement and well known fact.

We are allowed to question the western media.

I think you make some valid points - the big problem is, that anyone who airs these view is immediately called antisemitic.

[dave_boo]

I enjoy living in Thailand for many reasons. Although i love England I hate whats happened to it.

Please don't think me antisemitic.

My point was 50 million died at the hands of Mao and Thais HAVE heard of him.

We must not force our views on Thai people. They are certainly not ignorant for not knowing that much about Hitler.

You could say western people are ignorant for not knowing about Mao Zedong.

Hilter gets different coverage in the west. Its not antisemitic to point out that there are a disproportionate amount of Jewish people in western media. Its an objective statement and well known fact.

We are allowed to question the western media.

Interestingly when I asked the in-laws about Mao they said "Drink too much..."

Do you have a link from a reputable site that backs your claim that there's a "disproportionate amount of Jewish" influence in Western Media?

[sassienie]

Don’t criticize Thailand for not being an audience to western Jewish propaganda.

Mao was responsible for killing 50 million around the same time Hilter was supposed to have killed 1 million jews. How many Europeans know that? Ask Thais if they have heard of Mao Zedong and they certainly have.

In the west we are constantly reminded of the holocaust some are even jailed for denying it. I come from Jewish owned country, England.

Biggest contributor to Gordon Browns government = Rothschild.

The food Chain = Tesco,

Who owns more property in London than the Queen?

Sorry to have a different opinion but I enjoy living in Thailand a non jew owned country. Immigration is still about Thai people and others are guests. Have a look around London. Who finances those immigration policies to undermine the natives of England?

I am asking the Mods to close this thread.

Otherwise this is going to turn into a platform for right wing extremists like this, using subjects that are completely off topic with extreme flaming.

The above quotes by puik is another good reason why the Hitler poster should be taken down, because it brings out all the lice from underneath the woodwork. And old ills to the surface.

Edited October 20, 2009 by sassienie

[Paul123456]

What nonsense!

Hitler is a famous historical figure and it makes sense to have a wax statue of him and use him on the advertising.

If the poster said "Isn't Hitler a lovely man" or something - OK, I could understand the complaints. He was quite a brutal destructive lunatic. We all know that. But that isn't what the wax museum is saying - so leave them alone and stop telling people what to do.

[ryladie99]

...Thailand was not officially invaded, and gave right of passage to the Japanese so that they could enter Burma and Malaysia. It is also worth noting that Thailand did declare war on Britain and the United States after signing a treaty of alliance with Japan, so maybe you should have listened a little more carefully.

Japan did invade Thailand, and Thailand was on both sides of the war at the same time. See "Slice of Thai History: The Japanese invasion of Thailand, 8 December 1941 (part one)" at http://www.pattayamail.com/504/columns.shtml#hd6

To read more, change the digits 504 to those in front of the colon:

Japanese invasion of Thailand

504: Background

505: 8 December 1941: 0105 hours

506: [9 December 1941 - 25 January 1942]

See also:

Foreign Journalist's view [1935]

514: Did Japan dominate Thailand?

517: Rise of state-sponsored militarism and socialism

494: Tarutao: island of prisoners and pirates [1937-1949]

Thai invasion and occupation of Shan States

507: 1942

508: 1943-45

Death Railway

489: Background-Fall of Singapore [1942]

490: From Changi to Kanchanaburi [1942-43]

500: Construction of Chiang Mai-Burma Road [1942-1945]

Air war over Thailand, 1941-1945

512: Japan moves into Thailand, December 1941

513: Allies attack Thailand, 1942-1945

Escape from Bangkok 1945

557: Shot Down and Rescued

558: (Continued)

559: To Bangkok

560: The First Escape

562: The Final Escape

Thanks for posting, and now everyone knows about the history of Thailand...

Edited October 20, 2009 by ryladie99