Tourist Numbers Drop By Almost One Million

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, TV Friends,

What a kinky thread this has turned out to be

I love this jewel of non-sequiturian fantasy uttered on this thread :

"Two years ago they helped their economy by changing governments before the term was over. This conjures up all sorts of images in the western psyche of army recruits speaking Spanish inside US surplus jeeps laden with bananas. "

I do think there are a few simple things that help put in perspective automotive death statistics for both Thailand and other countries.

... vehicle fatalities ...

a. many driving deaths or fatalities where alcohol or drugs were a factor in the driver's (or the person being struck's ?) behavior ... and there may have been some deliberately self-destructive motive ... are reported as accidental deaths; this is true in every country. in few cases is there direct evidence in the form of "suicide notes" or obvious evidence that allows authorities to attribute the accident to a deliberate loss of self-control. yet many of these fatalities are, really, suicides with corollary homicides thanks to the suicidee not having the kindness to slam themseves into a concrete wall rather than another car or a bicyclist or pedestrian. Or the lack of courtesy of the bicycling suicidee to just bicycle off a cliff, rather than turn in front of a car, etc. and in every country you have cases where families or friends destroy and cover up evidence, out of shame, that would indicate the vehicular related death was somewhat voluntary.

b. given Thailand's traffic is a major form of birth control and culling of the weak, we can also expect many visitors who are foolish enough to rent motorbikes, or cars, and, naturally, drive with assumptions based on driving behavior in their home countries (and while, possibly, still in state of jet lag) to come to grief, and bicyclists to be lured into using the so-called bicycle lanes (like the one up Loi Kroh) which are clearly suicide-honey-traps.

imho the average "tourist" hasn't a clue how dangerous Thai driving and sidewalks are, while the average "expat" dam_n well does.

crime and violence ...

a. in talking about "tourism" in Thailand, and in talking about resident expats, don't we really need to separate these groups out in discussing crime and violence ?

b. in the case of both tourists and resident expats : do you think there is a certain cohort in these groups that come to Thailand to engage in high-risk behavior (as in sex-tourism coupled with alcoholic binging and/or drugs, and, in the case of resident expats "drinking themeselves to death"). If you accept this hypothesis, and the hypothesis that this group is particularly subject to crime and/or violence, then you can imagine that would "skew" statistics for the all inclusive category of "tourism" quite a bit.

c. within the category of resident expats, we find many "beautiful losers," "remittance men," "self-exiles," and people for whom Kris Kristofferson's words : "freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose" are apt. of course we also find a wonderful collection of fascinating and intelligent people with incredibly diverse life experiences, artistic talent, curious minds, delightful souls, and great openness to new ideas.

I would hypothesize there is a cohort in the resident expat group particularly vulnerable to social isolation and suicide. And if you show me a farang who is having frequent "serial intimacy" with a "parade" of younger Thai persons coming to their house; I'll be sure and avoid them, because I think they are in a very high risk category.

Personally, I feel quite safe here, certainly safer than I would have felt in many neighborhoods in San Francisco. But, I also feel safer because I know that every time I cross a street, or get on my bicycle, or drive my car, I am going to maintain a state of paranoid hyper-vigilance about what's happening on the road.

And I feel safer because I know I will never get in fight with a Thai since I know ... whether or not I could acquit myself well with the Thai person I fought with ... I would be immediately "rat packed" by other Thais, and turned into a bloody pulp. And when you have seen what Thais are capable of when the strong self-controls breaks down, as I have, you will never forget it; imho, they will kill you.

And, I feel safer because I know that every sidewalk, every curb, is a potential disaster if you are on foot.

All this said, I invite my friends to come here every year; they are the type of people that will not engage in high-risk behavior or foolish association with the scum of the country. And I feel that with some reasonable guidance (like skip the Koh Pagnan full-moon party, wear ear plugs at the bridge at Loy Krathong), they'll be fine, and have the most wonderful time of their lives. I also strongly advise my friends not to rent a car or motorbike until they have been in the country at least a week and their reflexes are not impaired by jet-lag or stress.

I hope you feel safe !

best, ~o:37;

[Donnyboy]

its the way most topics go after a while.the early bird catches the worm,you have to be in at the beginning,you can always reclaim by quoting the original post you know.

or hijack another one

[Donnyboy]

OMG understood all of that!

[getgoin]

Sawasdee Khrup, TV Friends,

I love this jewel of non-sequiturian fantasy uttered on this thread :

"Two years ago they helped their economy by changing governments before the term was over. This conjures up all sorts of images in the western psyche of army recruits speaking Spanish inside US surplus jeeps laden with bananas. "

"In the search for enlightenment, sometimes enlightenment passes by those that pretend to be enlightened."

To translate, I said, that the coup, two years ago, was a major factor and is a major factor in the west's perception that the Thai government is unstable and thus the country itself unsafe. This is a contributing factor in the tourists numbers being down. Thus the reference to the old days of the banana republics where governments changed hands, usually violently, regularly.

As for automobile accidents and the incidents of driving in Thailand as a tourist it would be my guess statistic that tourists do not think about driving, nor do most drive when they consider a trip to Thailand.

As for the condition of the sidewalks, I would render another guess that the average tourist does not consider that as well.

I also believe you are right and tourists probably do have different concerns than resident expats.

Edited October 26, 2009 by getgoin

[WinnieTheKhwai]

To translate, I said, that the coup, two years ago,

Don't want to be pedantic, but the coup was Tuesday 19 September 2006, so three years ago. Most people agree that this was a coup, especially as it was executed by the military, and they shredded the constitution in the process.

Now, you could of course argue that the removal of the previous government was also a coup, though executed by the courts. You probably meant the former one though, as the latter one only made the news as a comic relief item, 'PM sacked for appearing on cooking show'. The underlying mechanisms that instigated his removal are of course far from humorous, and warrant a degree of concern for the future.

(The coup) was a major factor and is a major factor in the west's perception that the Thai government is unstable and thus the country itself unsafe. This is a contributing factor in the tourists numbers being down. Thus the reference to the old days of the banana republics where governments changed hands, usually violently, regularly.

I would agree, but I really have no way to guess if this is actually a factor. People remember the most recent news cycle, and not a whole lot when you go further back.

[orang37]

To translate, I said, that the coup, two years ago, was a major factor and is a major factor in the west's perception that the Thai government is unstable and thus the country itself unsafe. This is a contributing factor in the tourists numbers being down. Thus the reference to the old days of the banana republics where governments changed hands, usually violently, regularly.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun GetGoin,

It would be interesting to know if, in general, perceived political instabilty, affects tourism in the absence of specific violent acts.

I would argue that the coup itself may have had little impact on tourists/tourism, but the occupation of the international airport had a tremendous impact (two visiting friends were "snagged" by it, and it took them three extra days to get home), and if something like that happens again this year (please, no), we will weep many tears for this wonderful country.

To our minds the use of "banana republic" analogies vis-a-vis Thailand doesn't quite play well simply because of the (stunning) fact that Thailand was never under the cultural/economic domination of a western colonial power in the ways India, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, etc. were.

"As for automobile accidents and the incidents of driving in Thailand as a tourist it would be my guess statistic that tourists do not think about driving, nor do most drive when they consider a trip to Thailand."

A fair point ! But there are sure a lot of car rental places in Chiang Mai aimed at the tourist market (how much of their rentals go to Thais, how much to Farang ?). An interesting study would be the demography of whom, among tourists, do rent motorcycles or cars, and the frequency of accidents. I'd guess there's a cohort of young male tourists that often do rent motorbikes, and I'd guess the accident rate is high, but these are just idle speculations. I've heard anecdotal stories about young farang motorcycle renters in Phuket getting into a lot of accidents because of hazards of biking in sandy, loose soil.

"As for the condition of the sidewalks, I would render another guess that the average tourist does not consider that as well."

I'd agree with you they are "blessedly" (and dangerously) unaware of their condition. To the great profit of some hospitals which weekly service sprained ankles, etc. ?

Even though I have warned my visiting friends in advance that what they might think are sidewalks (or streets) here are, really, obstacle courses designed to keep the elderly and crippled at home, keep orothopedic surgeons fully employed, cull the lame, weak, and those not paying attention, so far every visitor (from the US, from Europe, from Singapore) I've had has found their "state" made a deep (and not favorable) impression on them. Of course many of the visitors I've had are the type of people who like going on long "exploratory" walks around the city, not just shuttling from one tourist venue to another in air-con vans.

regards, ~o:37;

Edited October 26, 2009 by orang37

[gotlost]

If you need more food for thought go to the Nations website http://www.nationmultimedia.com/ and look at TV WEB... THAI AIR PHUKET-HONG KONG FLIGHTS. Chiang Mai 1 million down and counting.