Price Per Rai

[curlywatt]

gf has 10 rai near kham khuan kaeo, he relatives plant the rice and work the fields, in return she gets 1/3 of the rice produced, a neighbour is selling 5 rai at 40,000 per rai, g/f wants to buy as if she gets 1/3 of rice produced on this land she won't have to buy any rice, she reckons the rice she's getting at the moment isn't enough. 2 questions i have........ (1) is that the going rate for land, seems very expensive to me (2) 1/3 of the rice from 10 rai of land, only plant once per year, how much rice would this equate to, how many people would it feed for a year (eating rice evey day)

[c64]

gf has 10 rai near kham khuan kaeo, he relatives plant the rice and work the fields, in return she gets 1/3 of the rice produced, a neighbour is selling 5 rai at 40,000 per rai, g/f wants to buy as if she gets 1/3 of rice produced on this land she won't have to buy any rice, she reckons the rice she's getting at the moment isn't enough. 2 questions i have........ (1) is that the going rate for land, seems very expensive to me (2) 1/3 of the rice from 10 rai of land, only plant once per year, how much rice would this equate to, how many people would it feed for a year (eating rice evey day)

40.000,- per rai of rice field seems to be on the expensive side. Think the other sages around here know about this issue better than me. Just do a search here on the forum and you will find several topics regarding land price.

As some other have stated before me, tell your GF to head to the local agriculture office and ask about land prices (a small trip to the bank wouldn't hurt either - they might have some repo land).

Just out of curiosity i got my GF to ask about land prices back home for farm land.

Good land with chanote around 70.000,- baht per rai

Rice paddy (unsure of legal status) around 10.000,- per rai

(Prachinburi area)

[Maizefarmer]

Seems a on the steep side for rice paddy - but land prices vary hugely in Thailand, so perhaps not, but more important though is the issue c64 touches on - just what kind of titleship does this land come with - Chanote or Sor Por Gor (which is very common with rice paddies - and which I'd never pay 40K for, irrespective of the assurance given that there wouldn't be a problem in later years) - or is this land subject to some other type of title?

[ericthai]

All depends on where the land is. Prices vary allot. I paid 20,000 per rai in Korat, my wife said there is a some land for sale around her mom and dads farm (in Surin) and they want 50K per rai for it, which she said was a good price, I thought it was high, but she said another neighbor sold 2 rai for 120K last year, all rice paddy fields. She was thinking about buying (with her own money) and she is pretty cheap Charley about things. So it's hard to say. If you do buy make sure you get the proper paper work done with the govt land office so you get title to the land and make sure you have clear access, meaning you dont have to cross someone else's land to get to it, it can end up being a problem in the future. Dont know how much rice you get per rai or how much is needed to feed a family, sorry

[curlywatt]

thanks for your answer guys, just a quick qestion as i'm not well up on thai property laws......... whats the difference between Chanote and Sor Por Gor

[Tim207]

gf has 10 rai near kham khuan kaeo, he relatives plant the rice and work the fields, in return she gets 1/3 of the rice produced, a neighbour is selling 5 rai at 40,000 per rai, g/f wants to buy as if she gets 1/3 of rice produced on this land she won't have to buy any rice, she reckons the rice she's getting at the moment isn't enough. 2 questions i have........ (1) is that the going rate for land, seems very expensive to me (2) 1/3 of the rice from 10 rai of land, only plant once per year, how much rice would this equate to, how many people would it feed for a year (eating rice evey day)

If you google you can find statistics on rice in Thailand. Obviously these are statistics and do not take into account local factors. In a quick search I found that average rice consumption in 2002 per capita in Thailand is about 128KG annually (http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:_jMusocUEs0J:www.mae.eco.ku.ac.th/documents/Somporn_Thailand%2520Rice%2520consumption%2520November%252029.pdf) and Thailand's average rice yield is 459 kg per rai. (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/03/09/business/business_30097471.php)

Using these figures her take per rai would be enough to feed 1.2 people per rai. Granted some areas have much lower than average yields so this is just an approximation using average yields. A little research on google could get you a more accurate average yield for your area.

Edited October 22, 2009 by Tim207

[Maizefarmer]

thanks for your answer guys, just a quick qestion as i'm not well up on thai property laws......... whats the difference between Chanote and Sor Por Gor

In simple terms: Chanote land you own lock, stock & barrell - its yours to do as you wish with (subject of course to local planning permissions ect ect ...).

SPG land is NOT yours - it belongs to the State - it is, for lack of a better word, "signed" over to the farmer for restricted use - namely: agriculture - but it remains state property. It can be passed down from generation to generation in the same family.

You will hear of folk who have bought SPG land, usualy on the nod of some or other local official - everyone gets their slice of the cake and the appropriate official makes what document changes have to be made - and so long as no 3rd party has an axe to grind and ever challenges the name-change (for whatever reason - spite, anger ... or whatever), all should be just fine........

Some ex-pats (not all) I know of who have SPG land, got it because their Thai partners family already had it, and what they were actually paying for was for the appropriate local offical to exercise his authority to change it from one family members name to another family members name - an extension (or manipulation if you will) of the inheritance rule (which allows SPG land to be passed on from one family member to another quite legally - usualy on death or when they are to old to work the land any longer), and of course if the land is already been held in the family for a long time then its unlikely there is any 3rd party to complain - so that makes things a lot easier all round.

Did they (the expat) know the land they were buying was already "owned" in the family? Good question (tongue in cheek....)

..... lots of ways to skin a cat. Speaking for myself, I don't go near SPG land.

Someone (Tim207 I think it was) came up with a great idea a little while back - if you are"buying" SPG land despite some or other concern you may have, which has a crop on it, set the "purchase" up so the crop part of it is treated as a seperate entity, so in the unlikely event things go pearshaped, you can at least lay a claim to the crop (for what it may be worth).

[OOTAI]

Last year my wife bought some paddy fields in Buriram, about 18 rai for somewhere around B600,000 which means it was about 35,000 per rai. I never enter into the discussions about what anything is worth or what the land title is. What I do is tell her its her money and if she trusts the Thai system its up to her. She reckoned its the best land she's bought so far.

As for the rice 1/3 is the standard for letting someone use your land, how much is needed to feed the family is determined by the size of the extended family being fed. The size of the land needed depends on the yield. Last year was the first time my wife has actually sold any rice at that was to stop it being eaten by too many of the family after they had sold all of theirs.

Of all the advice I have read on this forum the best is don't spend or invest anymore than you are willing to walk away from, saying that though I love the place (whenever I manage to get to spend some time there) and hope fully will move there to live permanently one day soon.

[C-sip-degree]

gf has 10 rai near kham khuan kaeo, he relatives plant the rice and work the fields, in return she gets 1/3 of the rice produced, a neighbour is selling 5 rai at 40,000 per rai, g/f wants to buy as if she gets 1/3 of rice produced on this land she won't have to buy any rice, she reckons the rice she's getting at the moment isn't enough. 2 questions i have........ (1) is that the going rate for land, seems very expensive to me (2) 1/3 of the rice from 10 rai of land, only plant once per year, how much rice would this equate to, how many people would it feed for a year (eating rice evey day)

Curlywatt

First off: Why don’t you advise to GF to arrange contractors to plant maintain and harvest for her, ‘since it’s her 10Ria of paddy’, why only receiving 1/3?

We work around, 300kg per Rai planted once per year being Jasmine. Note: Not hand planted only hand thrown which is the cheapest and fastest alternative with a small yield but least drama. “In my opinion”

You say 10Rai well trust me it’s a lot of rice.

I tend to keep the figures lower than other posts, as it not a big money earner for the small time farmer, and blowing the balloon up to much will only cause one reaction, look at it like a necessity for survival and or subsidized living plus there are so many different points to be made and of cause everybody has their own style. Huff and puff…

300kg per Rai @ 14bht per kg sold with the shell on you work it out.

I’ll give you some help and say you should quite easily keep to a budget less than 15-000bht to have contractors complete all tasks for her 10 Rai of rice paddy yielding 3000kg. So if you have six small plastic style bags full of rice with the shell on you would be in business for next year around Roi-et area.

Land title information comments are very relevant to this price for sure.

40k to me is a little higher than usual for paddy, but then again depending on area maybe not. (paddy land with red chanote, off the main road with no power available 25K is norm)

How much rice eaten per month, Jasmine 28kg, Sticky 20kg

Four adults, Two teenagers, Two children,

Three dogs…………..

And a workman’s dinner BBQ party once a month for five.

Regards

C-sip

[globalwander1]

gf has 10 rai near kham khuan kaeo, he relatives plant the rice and work the fields, in return she gets 1/3 of the rice produced, a neighbour is selling 5 rai at 40,000 per rai, g/f wants to buy as if she gets 1/3 of rice produced on this land she won't have to buy any rice, she reckons the rice she's getting at the moment isn't enough. 2 questions i have........ (1) is that the going rate for land, seems very expensive to me (2) 1/3 of the rice from 10 rai of land, only plant once per year, how much rice would this equate to, how many people would it feed for a year (eating rice evey day)

Behind our land is na kow and it went for 40k/rai for 14 rai.

The owner wanted to sell to me but it wasn't that great... No road access long/ narrow strip. I did not bite so he sold it to Khon Thai for 560,000 baht. Ouch!!!

Land does not seem to change very often around here. We offered our neighbor 50k/ rai last year for 5 rai and they were nice but laughed.

I know other areas have a better price but I think this is due to location and local business.

My wife bought 6 rai for 45k/rai and everyone was angry at her and the seller. Land with no paper at all ... 100 rai or more for 20k/ rai about 15 km from us but remote and not always accessable. That is due to cassava and rubber potential at that time(last year).

These are only my experiences and opinions....maybe not enough to go on.

[curlywatt]

some great information from you guys, thanks for all the answers so far

[Rempler]

THANK YOU very much indeed, for this very helpful info.

By accident, I was just about asking the same question, as my wife received an offer to buy 4 rai for 140.000 THB (thus 35 k/rai - Amphur Surin)

The land is exactly behind the house of my mother in law, - so easy access and the neighbour, who is the owner, needs the money, because her son longs to get married soon.

NOW, with your help, I did learn, which questions I do have to ask (Chanote, SPG ...) and I realize that the price is not too far out of the normal range.

Once again ThaiVisa and its marvellous people helped me out.

God bless you !!!

Edited October 26, 2009 by Rempler

[Maizefarmer]

THANK YOU very much indeed, for this very helpful info.

By accident, I was just about asking the same question, as my wife received an offer to buy 4 rai for 140.000 THB (thus 35 k/rai - Amphur Surin)

The land is exactly behind the house of my mother in law, - so easy access and the neighbour, who is the owner, needs the money, because her son longs to get married soon.

NOW, with your help, I did learn, which questions I do have to ask (Chanote, SPG ...) and I realize that the price is not too far out of the normal range.

Once again ThaiVisa and its marvellous people helped me out.

God bless you !!!

... and out of curiosity. what type of land is it i.e. Chanote or Sor Por Gor?

[Isee]

gf has 10 rai near kham khuan kaeo, he relatives plant the rice and work the fields, in return she gets 1/3 of the rice produced, a neighbour is selling 5 rai at 40,000 per rai, g/f wants to buy as if she gets 1/3 of rice produced on this land she won't have to buy any rice, she reckons the rice she's getting at the moment isn't enough. 2 questions i have........ (1) is that the going rate for land, seems very expensive to me (2) 1/3 of the rice from 10 rai of land, only plant once per year, how much rice would this equate to, how many people would it feed for a year (eating rice evey day)

Being based in "kham kuan kaeo" myself (Which I presume is a variation of spelling and is in the Yasothon province - correct me if I'm wrong) - there is a huge difference in what certain land will produce each year. Land value (rice paddies) will be based on what it can produce each year and/or its location. At 40k per rai, it would have to be very close to water. Land was sold about a year ago (chanote) at 200k for 5 rai near me and it can produce 2 crops a year. Go 10 miles in any direction from me and most land will only produce 1 crop per year. If its close enough to me I might even be interested in looking at it myself if your GF doesn't go for it. But as a matter of perspective, there is 29 rai up for sale at the moment where the asking price is 700k and is capable of 2 crops a year with some irrigation involved for the second crop from a nearby river (I'm thinking of offering 500k). I think the sub 10 rai lots will get more money per rai as its within reach of the locals to get a loan to buy it. Out of curosity, one of the locals last month went to borrow money from the bank for a new Kubota and they would only lend 5k per rai on a total of 50rai - they ended up using it for the down payment.

Regarding the rice produced per rai - lots of factors involved, you could get as low as 5 bags per rai or as much as 20 bags per rai. I would say somthing between 12-15 would be considered good.

[hunglikea]

MF can SPG be changed to Chanote?

[Rempler]

THANK YOU very much indeed, for this very helpful info.

By accident, I was just about asking the same question, as my wife received an offer to buy 4 rai for 140.000 THB (thus 35 k/rai - Amphur Surin)

The land is exactly behind the house of my mother in law, - so easy access and the neighbour, who is the owner, needs the money, because her son longs to get married soon.

NOW, with your help, I did learn, which questions I do have to ask (Chanote, SPG ...) and I realize that the price is not too far out of the normal range.

Once again ThaiVisa and its marvellous people helped me out.

God bless you !!!

... and out of curiosity. what type of land is it i.e. Chanote or Sor Por Gor?

First my wife told me on the phone that it is "Chanote, but 2nd class". When I mentioned that I do need a certified translation for my local European Bank, then she went back to ask and .... what they call "Chanote 2nd class" is SPG ......

But okay, the selling lady was the nanny of my wife, when her mum got seriously sick, therefore I am willing to take that risk. Besides we only want to let her family grow some rice in order to have the quarterly family support reduced a bit.

[passya7]

Well land price varies alot in the same region. www3.thailisting.com/research.aspx?p=สุรินทร์&t=Land&l=en according to this the median price in around 619 Baht per sqm. And lowest price in around 63 Baht and highest fetching as much 3,125 baht. The data is update daily from post of land for sale across Thailand on the internet you can see which properties they are refering to sale site. hope that help

[Gary A]

You should have a payback of about 50 years. If this is acceptable, go for it.

[RedBullHorn]

First of all, there's no such thing as Chanote 2nd class...

Before you buy a plot of land;

--Chanote- Free hold, like MF mentioned, do as you please.

--Nor Sor 3- Same as Chanote, title NS3 use in the past for land plot opened from state owned reserved forest.

--Sor Kor 1- An upgrade title from Sor Por Kor title deed, request from land authority department when petition to have individual name

of immediate sibling/grandchildren on separated land title deed named SK1 to separate from Sor Por Kor title that belong to

parents/grandfather. Once successfully approved, indiviual share of a plot of land will be divided and get indiviual SK1 and the SPK title

deed will then be voided.

Inheritance rule.

Please note that 3rd generation kins are have no RIGHTS to petition their grandparent SPK title deed for SK1, it is only pass from

parents to son/daughter then down the line so on. In the event of parents' death, if the land title was not made in the death parent

name, then the grands will be considered allow to petition for transfer to grandchild(ren) by producing parents death cetificates.

Sor Kor 1 is the door to Chanote title deed. In event the grandsparents and parents had pass away, then the uncle or aunt will be

considered for petition the tranfer to the said nephew or niece. Some uncle/aunt or combine will not sign paperwork (SPK to SK1)

denying the nephew/niece their right to the land title so they can have them all to themselves due to grudge or greed.

--Sor Por Kor-

(As mentioned by MaizeFarmer)

"SPK land is NOT yours - it belongs to the State - it is, for lack of a better word, "signed" over to the farmer for restricted use -

namely: agriculture - but it remains state property. It can be passed down from generation to generation in the same family" within the

family tree of the same surname. SPK is considered to be the basic of all land title deed.

Not even allow to shift soil or sell the dirt, if caught by police(usually tip-off by grudge bearing person), there'll be hel_l to pay. You may

get off with a warning and a big fine(under-table) if your poker buddy happens to be a Kam Nan or the gorvernor...

Lastly...Get the land authority department to send a land survey team to measure the land plot with scope that you intent to buy then from there you can get a evaluation of its worth from their office before starting the price negotiation process. Seller are known to over-price if the land with Chanote title deed have change hand a couple of times. You can do the same with SPK and/to SK1 if you think there's an judgement/measurement error or you think that you might be rip-off.

.

Edited March 2, 2010 by RedBullHorn

[RedBullHorn]

Remove due to duplicate by error of the above post.

Edited March 2, 2010 by RedBullHorn

[RedBullHorn]

--Sor Por Kor-

(As mentioned by MaizeFarmer)

"SPK land is NOT yours - it belongs to the State - it is, for lack of a better word, "signed" over to the farmer for restricted use -

namely: agriculture - but it remains state property. It can be passed down from generation to generation in the same family" within the family tree of the same surname. (An immediate uncle/aunt can tranfer their inherited SPK to their nephew/niece in the form of SK1)

SPK is considered to be the basic of all land title deed.

[nam-thip]

My wife’s father leases 20 Rai of land and grows Jasmine rice.

1/3 goes to the land owner

1/3 is sold

1/3 feeds five adults for a year

The land he leases is 12 kilometres out of Phetchabun City and local land prices are crazy with Thaï's asking 200.000 baht per Rai for farmland.

A few farang’s have bought land and built houses in the area so greed has set in with the locals thinking everyone will pay silly money.

According to the misses a neighbor has just sold 1/3 of a Rai fronting the road to a Thai for 250.000 baht.

One lady has 2-Rai of rice land up for sale at 500.000 baht and the land must be just short of a metre below road level in places so a few wagon loads of fill will be required putting up the cost of land even further.

Not sure what sort of papers go with these plots then again I’m not interested at the prices being quoted.

[lannarebirth]

First of all, there's no such thing as Chanote 2nd class...

That's true but there are Chanote titles that confer more or lesssor rights. Chanotes with a green Garuda stamp at the top have a sales restriction for a period of years (usually 5, sometimes 10). These Chanotes are often issued as part of a land reform scheme. Sor Tor Kor for instance.

Red Garuda Chanotes have no sales restrictions.

All that said, its pretty easy to circumvent the sales restriction.

[RedBullHorn]

First of all, there's no such thing as Chanote 2nd class...

That's true but there are Chanote titles that confer more or lesssor rights. Chanotes with a green Garuda stamp at the top have a sales restriction for a period of years (usually 5, sometimes 10). These Chanotes are often issued as part of a land reform scheme. Sor Tor Kor for instance.

Red Garuda Chanotes have no sales restrictions.

All that said, its pretty easy to circumvent the sales restriction.

I've seen those title deed with red, sometime green Garuda with borders in the news on television, are they a new form of Chanote?

Because i only came across 1 type that's listed as equal to Chanote, the Nor Sor Sarm (NS3)

And the Garuda seal, could it be related to HM the King's project or scheme?

What are Sor Tor Kor title deed, any restriction?

Edited March 7, 2010 by RedBullHorn

[Gary A]

Chanote or not there can be restrictions. As has been stated, lannarebirth has said that the color of the Garuda is quite important. My wife has bought some land that cannot be transferred to her for several years. She has the chanote and it appears there are no problems but the transfer cannot be completed until the time period has expired.

[lannarebirth]

First of all, there's no such thing as Chanote 2nd class...

That's true but there are Chanote titles that confer more or lesssor rights. Chanotes with a green Garuda stamp at the top have a sales restriction for a period of years (usually 5, sometimes 10). These Chanotes are often issued as part of a land reform scheme. Sor Tor Kor for instance.

Red Garuda Chanotes have no sales restrictions.

All that said, its pretty easy to circumvent the sales restriction.

I've seen those title deed with red, sometime green Garuda with borders in the news on television, are they a new form of Chanote?

Because i only came across 1 type that's listed as equal to Chanote, the Nor Sor Sarm (NS3)

And the Garuda seal, could it be related to HM the King's project or scheme?

What are Sor Tor Kor title deed, any restriction?

Sor Tor Kor was a land reform scheme started many years ago, but altered under Thaksin, concerning Forest Villages. It confers rights to the historic users (who become registered) of the land and the altered scheme is intended to upgrade the title directly to Chanote(restricted) in a fast tracked number of years. Then there's the 5 0r 10 year wait for the unrestricted Chanote. Some areas have already been upgraded, many are still awaiting processing by a severely underfunded Land Dept.

Edited March 7, 2010 by lannarebirth

[Maizefarmer]

MF can SPG be changed to Chanote?

Sorry - I missed your question.

As a rule - the answer is a NO - but that said, from time to time the government has reviewed SPG titles on a regional/provincial basis and passed legislation that allowed parcels of land to be re-reg'd as CHANOTE by qualifying applicants. What the reasons were I don't recall, other than one of them been the amount of time the land had been held and used by the existing SPG title holder.

I am not familiar with the fine detail so I am not the person to ask, but - yes, I have known it to happen, although it is very much the exception - very much so. Speaking for myself, SPG land has never interested me at all - and even if I were [interested], any decision to purchase would not be influenced by a statement from a seller (or anyone else) that the land was due for, or qualifies for re-catagorisation.

It should be kept in mind that the very reason why SPG titles continue to exist today, is to protect rural farmers with limited resources. Any change that put SPG land on the same level as CHANOTE land would invite a free-for-all and undermine the security it gives to the very folk the policy is in place to protect. In short: it would be very very much the exception that an individual managed to get their piece of land changed from SPG to CHANOTE, while no-one else around them qualified.

[RedBullHorn]

I happen to be one of those individual, i told my wife that if i were to invest a lot of money doing livestock farming, i wouldn't want any problem regarding the land which i build my farm on. So after a lot of pressing and whining from me in the first 4 years, she finally went and make all the necessary arrangement (pain stacking process) to get it change from SPK to SK1(waited a few years), approved...then from SK1 to Chanote.(again waited a few years) approved again...now awaiting survey team to measure land in April the 17th, after that, issuing of Chanote.

In total we waited 6 years to reach this stage.

Edited March 12, 2010 by RedBullHorn

[finner]

We live near the Navy base in Sattahip. The excess land that the Navy sells has chanoots with a green Garuda. I don't know if there are any restrictions on resale or anything else but don't think so. Apparently it will self convert after some time to red Garuda.

Just got an update, the green Garuda is NOT a chanoot, it's a Nor Sor Sam (Nor Sor 3), as Red Bull Horn mentioned. No restrictions on resale. A friend who bought Army land south of Surin with a title of this type provided this info.

[manjara]

thanks for your answer guys, just a quick qestion as i'm not well up on thai property laws......... whats the difference between Chanote and Sor Por Gor

In simple terms: Chanote land you own lock, stock & barrell - its yours to do as you wish with (subject of course to local planning permissions ect ect ...).

SPG land is NOT yours - it belongs to the State - it is, for lack of a better word, "signed" over to the farmer for restricted use - namely: agriculture - but it remains state property. It can be passed down from generation to generation in the same family.

You will hear of folk who have bought SPG land, usualy on the nod of some or other local official - everyone gets their slice of the cake and the appropriate official makes what document changes have to be made - and so long as no 3rd party has an axe to grind and ever challenges the name-change (for whatever reason - spite, anger ... or whatever), all should be just fine........

Some ex-pats (not all) I know of who have SPG land, got it because their Thai partners family already had it, and what they were actually paying for was for the appropriate local offical to exercise his authority to change it from one family members name to another family members name - an extension (or manipulation if you will) of the inheritance rule (which allows SPG land to be passed on from one family member to another quite legally - usualy on death or when they are to old to work the land any longer), and of course if the land is already been held in the family for a long time then its unlikely there is any 3rd party to complain - so that makes things a lot easier all round.

Did they (the expat) know the land they were buying was already "owned" in the family? Good question (tongue in cheek....)

..... lots of ways to skin a cat. Speaking for myself, I don't go near SPG land.

Someone (Tim207 I think it was) came up with a great idea a little while back - if you are"buying" SPG land despite some or other concern you may have, which has a crop on it, set the "purchase" up so the crop part of it is treated as a seperate entity, so in the unlikely event things go pearshaped, you can at least lay a claim to the crop (for what it may be worth).

Someone may have mentioned this before but I think that you are not supposed to sell anything you produce on SPG land. Obviously for food/rice that would be almost unenforceable, but if you grow wood, for example, you would have a problem selling. We were offered some land of this type with a lot of mai sak on it, but the wife declined for that reason.