StasD Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 (edited) My GF is Thai nationality, but has British passport. Now she wants to get the Thai citizenship back because she wants to have a business here. Can she have double citizenships? Is it easy for her to get Thai citizenship back? She divorced with her British husband about 7 years ago. Edited October 22, 2009 by StasD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
submaniac Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 It's not so much an issue of 'getting it back' as it is a question if she ever lost Thai citizenship to begin with. Some countries allow dual citizenship, some do not. I am not an expert on British law, however according to Wikipedia: "Since the British Nationality Act of 1948, there is in general no restriction, in United Kingdom law, on a British national being a citizen of another country as well. So, if a British national acquires another nationality, they will not automatically lose British nationality. Similarly, a person does not need to give up any other nationality when they become British."British law on nationality Thai law does not specifically prohibit dual citizenship, and it is accepted de facto. So if she was a Thai citizen before she married and became a British citizenship, she did not lose her Thai citizenship to begin with. So it is not an issue of 'getting it back'. If she was a citizen before she became a British citizen then she most likely already has her necessary documents and is 'in the system' as it were. Does she have her Thai ID card? Even if it is expired she can bring it in and get a current one. Is she listed on a tabien bahn? Does she have a Thai passport? If she has any of these things she can just go and renew everything. If she never registered/got documentation attesting to Thai citizenship, then it will be a little bit trickier. For me, I had to go get a notarized birth certificate from the Thai office, a DNA test(!) to prove who my mother was, and go to the office which issued the Thai ID with two other Thai citizens who attested that I am Thai. I did get it, but it was a bit of a hassle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StasD Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 It's not so much an issue of 'getting it back' as it is a question if she ever lost Thai citizenship to begin with. Some countries allow dual citizenship, some do not. I am not an expert on British law, however according to Wikipedia: "Since the British Nationality Act of 1948, there is in general no restriction, in United Kingdom law, on a British national being a citizen of another country as well. So, if a British national acquires another nationality, they will not automatically lose British nationality. Similarly, a person does not need to give up any other nationality when they become British."British law on nationalityThai law does not specifically prohibit dual citizenship, and it is accepted de facto. So if she was a Thai citizen before she married and became a British citizenship, she did not lose her Thai citizenship to begin with. So it is not an issue of 'getting it back'. If she was a citizen before she became a British citizen then she most likely already has her necessary documents and is 'in the system' as it were. Does she have her Thai ID card? Even if it is expired she can bring it in and get a current one. Is she listed on a tabien bahn? Does she have a Thai passport? If she has any of these things she can just go and renew everything. If she never registered/got documentation attesting to Thai citizenship, then it will be a little bit trickier. For me, I had to go get a notarized birth certificate from the Thai office, a DNA test(!) to prove who my mother was, and go to the office which issued the Thai ID with two other Thai citizens who attested that I am Thai. I did get it, but it was a bit of a hassle. She stays now on 1year visa given to her according to her Thai parents. She has Thai ID card and there is no problem for her to prove that she was Thai citizenship. As I understood in this case she can get Thai citozenship quite easy? Can you describe the procedure of getting Thai citezenship in details if possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heng Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 If she already has a Thai id card, then yes, she's already a citizen. Even better if it's not yet expired, get it renewed before it does for the path of least resistance. Take her old id and copy of house registration to whatever amphur she's registered at and get it sorted. It takes can take a few minutes or an hour or so depending on how many people are there ahead of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
submaniac Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 If she has the Thai ID, that is the most important one. Just go to the office in your district with the old Thai ID and request a new one, if it is expired. The Thai ID is the most important document (more than the passport) as it is conclusive proof of Thai citizenship. Once she gets that, she can own land, own business, and anything else a normal Thai can do. She can take her Thai ID and make a passport with it as well. The advantage of this would be she would not be limited to the visa, but could stay indefinitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StasD Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 yes she has Thai ID but anyway must go to immigration every 3rd month to ask to renewe her visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Sounds like she entered the country on her British passport but might infact still be a citizen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Corect, she might just have entered on her British passport instead of her Thai passport, if she even has one. From the information you gave it seems she still has Thai nationality. Becoming a British national doesn't mean she lost her Thai nationality. Both countries allow dual nationality and she would have had to renounce her Thai nationality to have lost it. But since she entered on a Britisch pasport for immigraiton purposes she is considered a foreigner and needs a visa, till she leaves the country on her British passport and re-enteres on a Thai one. If she doesn't have a Thai passport she can apply for one with her Thai ID-card, provided she is registered on someones household book, which she can do with her ID-card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Corect, she might just have entered on her British passport instead of her Thai passport, if she even has one. From the information you gave it seems she still has Thai nationality. Becoming a British national doesn't mean she lost her Thai nationality. Both countries allow dual nationality and she would have had to renounce her Thai nationality to have lost it. But since she entered on a Britisch pasport for immigraiton purposes she is considered a foreigner and needs a visa, till she leaves the country on her British passport and re-enteres on a Thai one. If she doesn't have a Thai passport she can apply for one with her Thai ID-card, provided she is registered on someones household book, which she can do with her ID-card. exactly right. She should have her old Thai passport knocking about. Leave the country on the brit passport (say to KL), jump on the next plane back to Thailand, re-entering on the Thai passport. Happens every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StasD Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 yes she entered with her British passport. Ok as I understand she can recover her Thai citizenship easely but will loose her British citizenship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 yes she entered with her British passport. Ok as I understand she can recover her Thai citizenship easely but will loose her British citizenship. No, she is both, forever.... just because she isn't travelling on that passport, doesn't mean she has lost the citizenship of that country! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketmanbkk Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Samran is correct. If she has British she can also have Thai. Same as my wife, no problems, my child also has both too and was born in the UK. All easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Can I have a gold star for figuring the issue out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossfinn Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Well done TAWP, you have earned your star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oevna Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 This raises an interesting question. From what I understand, from what you guys are saying, the only requirement with regards to the Thai visa in her British passport is that she return to England on the British passport before her visa expires. If she entered on the British passport, does she need to leave on the British passport, in order to get the exit stamp on her visa to prove that she did not overstay? Or is all of this irrelevant, given that she already has citizenship in both countries? In any case, if she doesn't already have a current Thai passport (one that hasn't expired yet), she should apply for one while she is still in Thailand. As a Thai citizen she is eligible for a Thai passport, and she can then re-enter Thailand next time on her Thai passport and not have to deal with visas at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
submaniac Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 This raises an interesting question. From what I understand, from what you guys are saying, the only requirement with regards to the Thai visa in her British passport is that she return to England on the British passport before her visa expires. If she entered on the British passport, does she need to leave on the British passport, in order to get the exit stamp on her visa to prove that she did not overstay? Or is all of this irrelevant, given that she already has citizenship in both countries?In any case, if she doesn't already have a current Thai passport (one that hasn't expired yet), she should apply for one while she is still in Thailand. As a Thai citizen she is eligible for a Thai passport, and she can then re-enter Thailand next time on her Thai passport and not have to deal with visas at all. It does not matter. I entered Thailand on a U.S. passport, and left on a Thai passport. From the stampings on my U.S. passport I have not left Thailand since 2007. How can the Thai authorities nail me for overstaying my visa when I have citizenship? When are the Thai authorities ever going to see my U.S. passport anyways? I am using the Thai passport to enter and leave Thailand (since the Thai passport does not help much anywhere else in the world--i.e. any Thai passport holder usually needs to get a visa to enter a foreign country, and U.S. passport usually does not). If she is in Thailand, just have her renew her Thai passport in Thailand. Once she gets it, she can leave Thailand on the Thai passport. No overstay because she is a citizen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heng Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 They probably won't ever come after you unless they have no one else on the books. Have had an immigration truck come to pick up tenants before though, and yes, they use handcuffs. Likely won't ever happen with just one person (especially with Thai citizenship) at one address, but in this case it was like 10 Koreans apparently with their 90 day report address all being consecutive building numbers. They were back in the evening, getting back to being drunk and happy like before, and they were barely. But yes, your foreign passport IS on the immigration books until you use it to leave the country. I entered on my US passport about 10 years ago and got it sorted out by leaving on it to Singapore, and coming back on my blank Thai passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 This raises an interesting question. From what I understand, from what you guys are saying, the only requirement with regards to the Thai visa in her British passport is that she return to England on the British passport before her visa expires. If she entered on the British passport, does she need to leave on the British passport, in order to get the exit stamp on her visa to prove that she did not overstay? Or is all of this irrelevant, given that she already has citizenship in both countries?In any case, if she doesn't already have a current Thai passport (one that hasn't expired yet), she should apply for one while she is still in Thailand. As a Thai citizen she is eligible for a Thai passport, and she can then re-enter Thailand next time on her Thai passport and not have to deal with visas at all. She has to leave Thailand on the UK passport. In Thailand she can only apply for a new passport if she is registered in someones tabien baan. If not, she has to apply at an embassy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
submaniac Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 She has to leave Thailand on the UK passport. ??? So what should I be doing about the fact that my U.S. passport was stamped with an entry in 2007 and no exit??? Then wouldn't I be facing some sort of MASSIVE overstay fine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heng Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Technically, yes. Thai citizenship does afford you some leverage (like you don't have to jump through the proof of income, funds from abroad, leave the country to get a new visa, etc. hoops), but just like the OP, if you for whatever reason choose to enter on your foreign passport, you have to go down to Suan Phlu or whatever immigration, report every 90 days, and pay the yearly visa fee just like 'real' foreigners, tourists, visa runners, etc. I know plenty of Thais from the US who continue to do this because they still travel back and forth frequently and don't want to deal with too many questions with their still less than perfect English from our good friends at Homeland and because they are also concerned it might somehow void their naturalized citizenship and social security benefits. So they are more than happy to take your money, I don't think there's any reason to think they would mark Thais on foreign passports totally exempt from overstay fees. As for what you 'should' be doing is totally up to you. On the practical side, it'll probably never catch up to you as there are few reasons why you'd ever have to show your US passport to anyone (maybe if your US name is different from your Thai name). But again, you are indeed on the immigration books. Who knows if they will one day decide to make sure the books are cleaned up, especially as they get (*insert chuckle*) more efficient. You'll likely not get into any real trouble, but it'll probably be an inconvenience at some level. Myself, I treasure convenience so if it could get sorted with a day trip (lunch, shopping, a nice 2 hour bath, and a flight home in time for dinner) to HK or Singapore, I'm going to take care of it asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodDoctor Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Your wife still gets to keep UK citizenship after getting divorced? Is there a minimum number of years of marriage required before that happens. That is pretty nice of the UK. I am still jumping through hoops in order to get my European Citizenship in order via my blood line, and after that, we'll be 7 passports deep between myself, wife and child... very good for hiding moola. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodDoctor Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) Btw, San Phlu is closed now. Its a nice, wonderful, scenic 1.5hr journey (so I have heard) over to Chang Wantana Military base. I would definitely do everything I could to avoid having to make traveling out there a common event in my life. Personally, and I don't know if you or your wife fall into this category, but I am so attractive that I really get paranoid about the prospect of leaving the Central Business District. You never know how the locals are going to react. I could be taken hostage just like Naomi Watts in King Kong. Edited October 23, 2009 by TheGoodDoctor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossfinn Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Your wife still gets to keep UK citizenship after getting divorced? Yes, although it can be revoked under certain serious offences, obviously fraudulently obtained being one. Although if someone is left stateless because of a possible cancellation, things become a little more tricky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StasD Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 She mostly worries about her possible UK pension, because she worked in UK about 10 years. I worry about my marital status if we will be married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 She mostly worries about her possible UK pension, because she worked in UK about 10 years. I worry about my marital status if we will be married. First of all, she is still a Thai citizen, unless she has voluntarily gone through the complicated rigmarole at the Ministry of the Interior, proscribed in The Nationality Act for Thai citizens wishing to relinquish their citizenship which still requires approval by the Minister. She is entitled to renew her ID card and get a Thai passport. She will still be entitled to whatever UK old age pension her 10 years worth of contributions entitles her to (not much I would think), even if she returns permanently to Thailand. But bear in mind that the UK govt does not index link the pensions for OAPs living in Thailand. There is a arbitrarily decided list of countries for which it does index link the pensions, if you live in one of them, but Thailand is not on that list. Therefore the pension could be eroded to almost nothing by inflation anyway, if she lives here when she draws it, not to mention what the purchasing power of the pound may be by then. Not sure what aspect of your marital status you are concerned about, if you get married. If you move to Thailand with her, you could get a marriage visa. Otherwise it makes very little difference whether you are married to a Thai national or not, if you live in Thailand. On the other hand foreign women married to Thai nationals can acquire Thai citizenship relatively easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve187 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 just my thoughts on UK pensions but i may be wrong - if a women is married or was married (and has not since remarried) to a UK citizen, would she not be entitled to a pension based on her husbands contributions. and her contributions would only come into play if she starts to draw a pension before her husband reaches pension age. as i said that is my understanding, but I know that all pension rules are changing next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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