Practicing Buddhists

[eggomaniac]

Could you query a few Thais and rank them on their knowledge and understanding of and practice of Buddhism.

The criteria is if they know the 5 Precepts, 4 Divine States of Mind and 3 Poisons

[Disclaimer, I don't know if these vary with different Buddhist sects. If you could replace with with knowledge of the tenets of a various Branch?]

(Also, I get you could easily find Western Christians who could not recite the 10 Commandments. This is not to disparage. My intentions are for scientific curiosity. I once met an American Buddhist pilgrim in Thailand. She said it was difficult to find real Buddhism in Thailand. Was she correct?)

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5 Precepts

1. To refrain from taking life (non-violence toward sentient life forms)
   
2. To refrain from taking that which is not given (not committing theft)
   
3. To refrain from sensual (including sexual) misconduct
   
4. To refrain from lying (speaking truth always)
   
5. To refrain from intoxicants which lead to loss of mindfulness (specifically, drugs and alcohol
   

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The Buddha taught his monks to arouse four states of mind, called the "Brahma-vihara" or "four divine states of dwelling." These four states are sometimes called the "Four Immeasurables" or the "Four Perfect Virtues."

The four states are metta (loving kindness), karuna (compassion), mudita (sympathetic joy) and upekkha (equanimity), and in many Buddhist traditions they are cultivated through meditation. These four states inter-relate and support each other.

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The 3 Poisons

1. greed for money, wealth

2. hatred / anger

3. delusion

[phetaroi]

Eggomaniac, I just think you're off on a well-intentioned, but wrong track here. Mostly I can't quite express why I feel just a little uncomfortable with your effort, but 2 things do come to mind:

In terms of "I once met an American Buddhist pilgrim in Thailand. She said it was difficult to find real Buddhism in Thailand. Was she correct?", I don't care which religion one is discussing, for any individual I think it is always a question of degree. I am reminded of what a strict Catholic I was at the age of 17 when I converted to Catholicism, and someone remarked with me that, "There is no Catholic like a recently converted Catholic."

Knowing the 5 Precepts, 4 Divine States of Mind, and 3 Poisons, doesn't mean one is following them.

I hope your question will, however, lead to a good discussion. To me, Buddhism should be a rather intellectual religion/philosophy!

[camerata]

I once met an American Buddhist pilgrim in Thailand. She said it was difficult to find real Buddhism in Thailand. Was she correct?)

Where was she looking - in temples or the general populace? I don't think she'd have much trouble finding the "real Buddhism" in some temples. But there are different levels of practice. At the bottom there is dana (generosity) - most Thais practise it. Then there are the precepts. I never met a Thai yet who didn't know the precepts. But, as with Christianity, following them is another matter. How easy is it to never tell a lie, or never swat a mosquito? Meditation of any type is considered by many (not all) a high-level practice reserved for monks.

I'm sure all Thais know the word kilet (kilesa - defilement), and that the three main ones are greed (for anything), hatred and delusion. That's my impression from Bangkok Thai friends and colleagues, some of whom meditate. My company has a "club" which organizes an alms round past the office once a month and has a kathin trip upcountry every year.

Not everyone wants to be an arahant, so the "real Buddhism" has many levels of practice. To practise dana and hope for a better next life is perfectly valid for a lay Buddhist, according to the Pali Canon.

[eggomaniac]

Eggomaniac, I just think you're off on a well-intentioned, but wrong track here. Mostly I can't quite express why I feel just a little uncomfortable with your effort, but 2 things do come to mind:

Yes, where WAS I going with this?

Let's say somebody wanted to reside in a 'Catholic' country. In terms of per cent population, Italy, Philipines, Brazil, Ireland, Poland, Spain and others would top a 'list'. In terms of the level of practise, devotion, that might require deeper study.

According to http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/history/bstatt10.htm

Thailand has the largest per centage in the World of Buddhism, 95% and is 2nd in numbers, 55,400,000.

I guess you are right, she could have 'looked' deeper. Maybe there was a language barrier. Maybe she had a certain sect she wanted to follow?

Perhaps the Poll question should have been, something like,

Do you feel the true meanings of Buddhism have been lost in Thailand?

[Again, maybe the true meanings of Religion have been lost in the World, not to just pick on Thailand, however this is a Thailand Forum?]

Unlike the young lady, I was NOT on a pilgrimage to find Buddhism. My passing impression is that living a good life and giving 'offerings' is 'sufficient'.

[fabianfred]

Not everyone wants to be an arahant, so the "real Buddhism" has many levels of practice. To practise dana and hope for a better next life is perfectly valid for a lay Buddhist, according to the Pali Canon.

Only because they do not understand that life is suffering or what Nirvana is.

Some are content with their lives and believe Nirvana to be an end....snuffing out like a candle...and they do not want that. They are often taught wrongly by monks too, who sometimes say that Nirvana is for monks or that women need to be reborn as men first etc....quite incorrectly....... or that reaching enlightenment is a gradual process of purifying oneself over many many lives......once again, impossible.

[sabaijai]

What most Westerners understand to be Buddhism is probably no closer to 'the real thing' than what most Thai Buddhists understand.

Brings to mind the Biblical text along the lines of 'ours is not to judge.' Subsitute 'kamma' for 'God.'

Or as the Buddha has said, 'This question tends not to edification.'