Do Thais Identify Themselves As Asian Or Asean? Or Just Thai?

[sbk]

I find it interesting that most continental Europeans identify themselves quite strongly as European (British excluded, I know ) but I haven't found, IME, that Thais identify themselves as Asians. Rather just Thai. Is this a rural thing? An education thing or just a lack of any kind of unified feeling in Asia or even ASEAN?

[Svenn]

Ethnically and linguistically, European countries are much closer and similar to each other than the Asian countries mostly. E.g. all European language come from a proto-Indo-European source that still leaves many words intelligible between European peoples... on the other hand, there is a world of difference and incomprehnsion between Thai and just Viet or even Khmer. That might be part of the reason why there is little Asian unity.

I know the Japanese often don't consider themselves "Asian," a hilarious inferiority complex apparently arising from a belief that 'asian' is derrogatory and they are some sort of superior island people ...much like the British perhaps?

As an American, I consider myself 'Western' rather than European ('european' conjures up negative images of oppulence and unnecessary World Wars), and would rather identify with the UK if I had to choose a 'heritage.' In a Chinese university I was at, the professor automatically grouped us English-speaking people (NZ, Aussie, Brit students) into one group he considered the same thing

[h90]

Ethnically and linguistically, European countries are much closer and similar to each other than the Asian countries mostly. E.g. all European language come from a proto-Indo-European source that still leaves many words intelligible between European peoples... on the other hand, there is a world of difference and incomprehnsion between Thai and just Viet or even Khmer. That might be part of the reason why there is little Asian unity.

I know the Japanese often don't consider themselves "Asian," a hilarious inferiority complex apparently arising from a belief that 'asian' is derrogatory and they are some sort of superior island people ...much like the British perhaps?

As an American, I consider myself 'Western' rather than European ('european' conjures up negative images of oppulence and unnecessary World Wars), and would rather identify with the UK if I had to choose a 'heritage.' In a Chinese university I was at, the professor automatically grouped us English-speaking people (NZ, Aussie, Brit students) into one group he considered the same thing

"European language: Hungarien, Finish??????

[Rumfoord]

I find it interesting that most continental Europeans identify themselves quite strongly as European (British excluded, I know ) but I haven't found, IME, that Thais identify themselves as Asians. Rather just Thai. Is this a rural thing? An education thing or just a lack of any kind of unified feeling in Asia or even ASEAN?

as european myself i can't really follow your implication and conclusion. the question is rather a non sequitur.

it is simple a european thing. that is all. here in Asia or thailand the things are different.

it is different around the globe: for example: look like citizen of the USofA identify themselves. they say i come from california or i came from texas, the last few years a couple of them declared i am canadian but the majority of USofA citizen will say i am american and that is not the same thing like the europeans say i am a european it is different.

and the difference can not be explained with that easy conclusions you suggested.

enjoy the cultural diversity.

[gotlost]

Thais = Thais.

[yabaaaa]

I can never understand why people are obsessed with where they came from, look at it this way were all human ( well some exceptions) here and that's it.

[PhilHarries]

I must move in different circles as I have never met anyone from any European country that identifies themselves as European. They are all German, French, Spanish, Italian etc.

ASEAN may be their version of the EC but it does not have a central government that makes laws that govern all over so maybe that's why they all still consider themselves Thai (or whatever).

And I don't go for this sickly, smiley, 'Imagine' singing "we are all just humans" stuff either. We are all from a birthplace and, like it or not, that birthplace is within a nation and you have a nationality. When a person asks you where you are from it is out of interest that they do it and to respond with the likes of "I'm just a person of the world" is an insult to them personally and a downright rude conversation killer.

[Gaccha]

Clearly, in some way, the Thais feel ASEANish. Or at least you must otherwise come up with an explanation of why the nation-states of ASEAN have chroncially failed to invade each other. Yes, they have had their spats (Prear Vhear) , but they seem to live in peace.

But, yes, they feel Thai first and foremost. The nation-state with its monoploy of violence can in its desperate desire to project its own existence go to great lengths to make the people living within it feel part of it. The 72 (according to Chula Uni) races tha tmake up Thais have experienced incredible amounts of national myth making. How else could they feel anything but first and foremost Thai. Other countries also have similar simplistic systems of propagation of identity (e.g. US children standing and swearing their oath of allegiance). Only France and the UK are odd, interesting, and perhaps healthy exceptions (but this is well off topic).

So what is going on. Well, how about this positioning:

"The case of the EU points to the need to re-conceptualise the relationship between

self and other in the IR literature. I argue that the literature forces us into an artificial choice

between the liberal constructivist approach of disregarding the constitutive role of difference

in identity formation and the critical constructivist approach of assuming a behavioural

relationship between self and other, and therefore cannot account for the diversity in the EU’s

interactions with various states on its periphery. I identify three constitutive dimensions along

which self/other relationships vary to produce or not produce relationships of Othering:

nature of difference, social distance, and response of other. "

---Constructing identity and relating to difference: understanding the EU’s mode of differentiation by BAHAR RUMELILI, Review of International Studies (2004), 30, 27–47

So the Other (ie. non-Thais in our topic, usually Farang, but historically the great non-Thai was the Burmese) should not be immediately seen as the hostile Other. Add I think this can be seen in Thai relations with Malaysia, Cambodia etc.

[caf]

I don't know where the research came from but I would not agree that French people call themselves European.

Or any other people in Europe for that matter

And have you talked to someone who is Lanna born and bred? Thai citizen yes , Thai passport yes. Love their King yes. But do they consider they are thai or Lanna?

Talk to them and find out.

[MJo]

Same here, never heard anyone (including myself) to call themselves "European". Even if people and goods move fairly free over the borders there still is borders and independent nations. Totally different system than USA or the British "empire"

Edited October 27, 2009 by MJo

[Somrak]

Sbk: An education thing

It is only an uneducation thing.

Edited October 27, 2009 by Somrak

[MJo]

Also Brits did not join Euro currency so the integration is not showing that much in everyday life of average Joe.

Looking at the eyes of expat it would have been better to join. EUR has been steady between 45 to 50 baht for last 6 years apart short term dip to 41 low in 2007.

[Jingthing]

Same here, never heard anyone (including myself) to call themselves "European". Even if people and goods move fairly free over the borders there still is borders and independent nations. Totally different system than USA or the British "empire"

Maybe not. Ask a Mexican if he identifies as a Mexicano or a Norte Americano.

Edited October 27, 2009 by Jingthing

[MJo]

Same here, never heard anyone (including myself) to call themselves "European". Even if people and goods move fairly free over the borders there still is borders and independent nations. Totally different system than USA or the British "empire"

Maybe not. Ask a Mexican if he identifies as a Mexicano or a Norte Americano.

USA is one country with one government, one flag and one president.

In EU i have lost count, maybe 20 or more fully independent countries having own armies, passports etc etc...

[Jingthing]

Remember NAFTA?

[yabaaaa]

I must move in different circles as I have never met anyone from any European country that identifies themselves as European. They are all German, French, Spanish, Italian etc.

ASEAN may be their version of the EC but it does not have a central government that makes laws that govern all over so maybe that's why they all still consider themselves Thai (or whatever).

And I don't go for this sickly, smiley, 'Imagine' singing "we are all just humans" stuff either. We are all from a birthplace and, like it or not, that birthplace is within a nation and you have a nationality. When a person asks you where you are from it is out of interest that they do it and to respond with the likes of "I'm just a person of the world" is an insult to them personally and a downright rude conversation killer.

Yeah many wars started over "where do you come from" Anyway all Thais know is theres Thailand and Farangland

Edited October 27, 2009 by yabaaaa

[mca]

As an American, I consider myself 'Western' rather than European ('european' conjures up negative images of oppulence and unnecessary World Wars),

As a European when I think of Americans it conjures up negative images of corpulence and unnecessary S E Asian Wars.

[wileycoyote]

Thai

[A_Traveller]

Ultimately none of the above.

South East Asia after all stems from an originally military convenience [most attribute this to Lord Louis Mountbatten], Asia not realistically, and despite the howls of anguish Thailand has far less traction than most realise. People view themselves as members of their family first, then locale [often very closely focused, though for some a more regional {provincial} aspect]. For most, Bangkok is another place [to paraphrase .. they do things differently there] and the literal concept of country is more remote. This understanding, of course, is one of the unspoken undercurrents to today's strife.

Regards

[MJo]

Remember NAFTA?

That's a trade agreement more than anything else, EU goes much further with the currency, certain legistlation etc.

And no, i haven't anyone saying they are from NAFTA when asking nationality. Same goes to WTO. All americans, canadians and mexicans i have met have always identified themselves with their nationality. Never heard of "I'm north american" before. Congratulations, you are the first one!

But if you read my post i actually compared EU against USA where you have the more or less independent states with their own administration.

[Jingthing]

Never heard of "I'm north american" before. Congratulations, you are the first one!

No, I am not, because I have never said such a thing.

Call my cynical but I reckon the vast majority of Thais couldn't tell you most of the countries in Asean. Am I wrong?

Edited October 27, 2009 by Jingthing

[Livinginexile]

I can never understand why people are obsessed with where they came from, look at it this way were all human ( well some exceptions) here and that's it.

I totally agree.

We breath the same air...we have the same blood, we are all the same!

I could never understand this "tribal" mentality thing.

We are all human beings.

[MJo]

Never heard of "I'm north american" before. Congratulations, you are the first one!

No, I am not, because I have never said such a thing.

Call my cynical but I reckon the vast majority of Thais couldn't tell you most of the countries in Asean. Am I wrong?

Well that might be wise thing to do considering how the country has been run for past 10 years or so

But sure, i never heard any thai calling themselves "ASEAN" either.

I admitted already that i lost the count with EU members so i'm in a same boat with thais but how many americans can identify all NAFTA members not to mention their own states

[A_Traveller]

Just to be pedantic here, the US as its name suggests is a union of [in principal] independent states. The original aim after all was for the states to administer to their citizens with the federal government providing a framework for them so to do whilst, for example, acting as their foreign representatives [though admittedly in Washington's Farewell Address that would have been minimal]. Yes that is an oversimplification, but the core is true.

The EU is an attempt to provide a framework by and large without becoming a Federal model [unless you are French ]. Also one should note it commenced as a commercial 'common market' and its political elements have over time increased from that mercantile basis.

Regards

Edit Typo//

Edited October 27, 2009 by A_Traveller

[Somrak]

I woud hAve no problem to consider me as a meber of the EU. But i come from an Non-Eu contry.

In asia, and spezial in Thailand the problem is, that leaders (educatet in free countrys) teach the people still things we never woud accept in europe anymoore. One ...,one ........, one .... . (And to top this .... "free" - race and -nation )

How the people can ever make a step forward, if they have to listen to this ower and ower?

There are good books about racial behavior in Asia (Thailand) but you have to look for them in the net alone.

Edited October 27, 2009 by Somrak

[Crushdepth]

My experience is that Thais are 'just Thai'. But if you go to any of the border regions and talk to local people you will find they tend to identify themselves as their *local ethnic group* rather than "Thai".

In general, Asia and 'ASEAN' are far less coherent and more fractured than 'Europeans' or whatever. Personally I think pigs will fly before the 'ASEAN community' approaches anything even remotely coherent as the EU, which (despite its warts), largely works.

[personchester]

I find it interesting that most continental Europeans identify themselves quite strongly as European (British excluded, I know ) but I haven't found, IME, that Thais identify themselves as Asians. Rather just Thai. Is this a rural thing? An education thing or just a lack of any kind of unified feeling in Asia or even ASEAN?

as european myself i can't really follow your implication and conclusion. the question is rather a non sequitur.

it is simple a european thing. that is all. here in Asia or thailand the things are different.

it is different around the globe: for example: look like citizen of the USofA identify themselves. they say i come from california or i came from texas, the last few years a couple of them declared i am canadian but the majority of USofA citizen will say i am american and that is not the same thing like the europeans say i am a european it is different.

and the difference can not be explained with that easy conclusions you suggested.

enjoy the cultural diversity.

People that refer to themselves as "Europeans" do so in order to declare their heritage (race), not their country or nationality.

On the other hand, People that refer to themselves as "Americans" do so in order to state their country and nationality, and not their heritage (race)

[PeaceBlondie]

I think Thais consider their nationality to be Thai.

America is an entire HEMISPHERE. I lived in the United States of Mexico, just north of Guatemala. As citizen of the USA, I was estadounidense.

[WaiWai]

Isn't the ASEAN conference the one where we usually get a wondrous photo of our national leaders in the local costumery?

Australia may belong to ASEAN, and has many Asian residents and citizens, but not sure that we'd (all) identify ourselves as ASEAN. Too ethnically mixed; too far away from the Podes ... I think we'd still primarily identify as Aussies. (Large place but small population, so less likelihood of identifying as a member of a particular city/region).

Forgot to say: yes; I do think the Thais see themselves as very distinct from other Asians. This concept may work in certain people's favour, of course

Edited October 27, 2009 by WaiWai

[Jingthing]

The ultra-PC types in the US refer to white people as European Americans. So of course the words European and American and Asian, etc., are used many different ways.

Edited October 27, 2009 by Jingthing