Do Thais Identify Themselves As Asian Or Asean? Or Just Thai?

[awd]

The Irish in America used to face much persecution. Times change. Now that the US has elected a man of Irish decent as President, the Irish-Americans can hold their heads high!

[WaiWai]

The ultra-PC types in the US refer to white people as European Americans. So of course the words European and American and Asian, etc., are used many different ways.

Jing jing, Jingthing ... sometimes it just helps us situate one another. American teacher in China has Asian-looking partner --- how many times did she need to explain her Korean background? Not the first time with this type of situation.

Perhaps we should just wear labels ?

[redwood13]

Have a friend born in Bangkok of Thai parents, who were born in China, and she says she's Chinese.

-redwood

[DP25]

No one anywhere considers themselves Asean

[bendejo]

Thais have a real hair up their butts about being Thai. Ask any Thai what they think of people from the neighboring countries, and you won't hear a word of good. They may go easy on the Lao, and have a begrudging respect for the Chinese. Otherwise "them no good."

In New York City, you'll hear black folks go on about white people. Funny thing is no one there calls themselves white. Everyone there has a sense of who in their ancestry first came to NYC, either by wooden ship or Greyhound bus or any way else.

Other places in that country, well, that's another story.

[Jingthing]

The Irish in America used to face much persecution. Times change. Now that the US has elected a man of Irish decent as President, the Irish-Americans can hold their heads high!

Yes, we are very proud of our "black Irish" lad Barry McHufein O'bama. When is going to receive his well deserved Guinness Pissed Prize?

Edited October 27, 2009 by Jingthing

[Rumfoord]

I find it interesting that most continental Europeans identify themselves quite strongly as European (British excluded, I know ) but I haven't found, IME, that Thais identify themselves as Asians. Rather just Thai. Is this a rural thing? An education thing or just a lack of any kind of unified feeling in Asia or even ASEAN?

as european myself i can't really follow your implication and conclusion. the question is rather a non sequitur.

it is simple a european thing. that is all. here in Asia or thailand the things are different.

it is different around the globe: for example: look like citizen of the USofA identify themselves. they say i come from california or i came from texas, the last few years a couple of them declared i am canadian but the majority of USofA citizen will say i am american and that is not the same thing like the europeans say i am a european it is different.

and the difference can not be explained with that easy conclusions you suggested.

enjoy the cultural diversity.

People that refer to themselves as "Europeans" do so in order to declare their heritage (race), not their country or nationality.

On the other hand, People that refer to themselves as "Americans" do so in order to state their country and nationality, and not their heritage (race)

Europe and America are words for continents and not a solely country or solely nation.

my guess is you mean people like for the People of the United States of America. or citizen of the USofA

so you wanna say:

People

of the United States of America

that refer to themselves as "Europeans" do so in order to declare their heritage (race), not their country or nationality,

what is the United States.

On the other hand, People

of the United States of America

that refer to themselves as "Americans" do so in order to state their country and nationality,

what is the United States.

and not their heritage (race)

let me tell you that if i as an European refer to myself as a European it is more for an anti-nationalistic matter. i have very seldom in mind , actually never, to declare or identify my race, when i use that line.

for such occasion aren't i supposed to say I am a Caucasian?

[Thai at Heart]

I reckon that people of a country are willing to identify with being European in direct correlation to how well their media tells them they are getting some benefit out of it. I don't believe Thais identify with being from Asean in the slightest.

Given time (about a millenium) or so, the Thai's may identify with being Asean. If it ever approaches the integration of Europe and they find out the put in more than they get out, I don't believe they will want to feel that they are helping Cambodia, Laos or Vietnam get a foot up. The greater good is not a concept that is well founded in this part of the world.

The whole country is split on the perception that farmers were being given preference over the cities and the country and it's neighbour have been firing bullets at each other over a few sq/km of land.

Could you imagine the hassle if Thai's found out they were helping Cambodian farmers let alone their own?

Edited October 27, 2009 by Thai at Heart

[MayBeLater]

Clearly SBK has never been to Europe, quite typical to think of Europe as a country and not of a continent with many different countries with very different cultures. Even in my small country of 16 million along the north sea there are many different regions and cultures. People from some regions I can hardly understand, to them I am a from the western part of the country, not from their region and thus a stranger; speak different, act different, dress different etc..

But broader I do identify strongly with white people coz in the end they are the most like me compared to all other people on this planet. And no nothing racist about that, just a fact most white people share but are afraid to speak out (or even admit to themselves) out of fear of being accused of racism.

Perhaps SBK its an idea to travel a bit in Europe, not a 'see all in 30 day bustrip', but a true extended travel. You seem to be unemployed so just do it! Enjoy the exploration and eye opener ;-)

[Rumfoord]

I think Thais consider their nationality to be Thai.

America is an entire HEMISPHERE. I lived in the United States of Mexico, just north of Guatemala. As citizen of the USA, I was estadounidense.

it is a continent in the western hemisphere. a large landmass surrounded by saltwater. but that hemisphere isn't america alone.

wikipedia has an impressive long list of countries that belong to the western hemisphere but not to the continent America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere

[Rumfoord]

Budapest is the capital of what European country?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj6AQCMLUNc

Is this a rural thing? An education thing or just a lack of any kind of ...?

[PeaceBlondie]

Columbus barely touched "North America," mainly the "Moskito Coast" of Central America, which is the kite's tail' of North America. America is the Anglicised name of Americus Vespucci....

Thailand, or Siam?. Lanna, or Pattani, or Isaan?

[Patsycat]

The Irish in America used to face much persecution. Times change. Now that the US has elected a man of Irish decent as President, the Irish-Americans can hold their heads high!

Yes, we are very proud of our "black Irish" lad Barry McHufein O'bama. When is going to receive his well deserved Guinness Pissed Prize?

17th of March, of course!!

[Briggsy]

Thais identify themselves as Thai.

If they need buddies, they will identify with Laos, Chinese and, strangely, Filipinos. They do not think of themselves in the same ethnic and cultural grouping as Khmers, Burmese, Malays or anyone else who eats goat and has non-straight hair. The reasons for this seem economic and political.

As a comparison, how many Germans are able to converse in French or Italian or enjoy food from Poland or Sweden. Lots, I would say. How many Thais can say "my name is ...." is Khmer, Burmese or Bahasa Malaysia or know anything about their culture or cuisine. Virtually none, except those ethnically descended from Khmers, Burmese or Malays e.g. most of the residents of Buri Ram and Surin.

[Patsycat]

Clearly SBK has never been to Europe, quite typical to think of Europe as a country and not of a continent with many different countries with very different cultures. Even in my small country of 16 million along the north sea there are many different regions and cultures. People from some regions I can hardly understand, to them I am a from the western part of the country, not from their region and thus a stranger; speak different, act different, dress different etc..

But broader I do identify strongly with white people coz in the end they are the most like me compared to all other people on this planet. And no nothing racist about that, just a fact most white people share but are afraid to speak out (or even admit to themselves) out of fear of being accused of racism.

Perhaps SBK its an idea to travel a bit in Europe, not a 'see all in 30 day bustrip', but a true extended travel. You seem to be unemployed so just do it! Enjoy the exploration and eye opener ;-)

I think that you will find that SBK has travelled to Europe. Sheesh, she's even been to Scotland!!

[volk666]

Thaksin was trying to forge some sort of a new Asian identity through Asian Cooperation Dialog from which any white people were excluded, there was a lot of talk about the century of Asia, that the future belongs to Asia, but it didn't get much traction after he was gone.

Indians and Pakistanis will admit to sharing nothing, Chinese are resentful of Japanese, Koreans just want to be different - it will be a long way before Asians agree on some common, shared values that would distinguish them from the rest of the world. There are so-called "Asian values" already, but the continent is too diverse to share a common identity.

Asean is a bit closer to that, but it's still far off - they've to got problems with Burma, and now between Thailand and Cambodia and, apparently, Brunei, so the unity and common identity is not in sight yet.

Thais just want to be Thais. Maybe in the States they identify with Asian Americans, but not here yet.

[Rumfoord]

Columbus barely touched "North America," mainly the "Moskito Coast" of Central America, which is the kite's tail' of North America. America is the Anglicised name of Americus Vespucci....

Thailand, or Siam?. Lanna, or Pattani, or Isaan?

that belongs more to the other thread about colonisation and creation of history.

this thread is about some hippie weedhead punks from Germany who don't like to say that they are from Germany. those germans aren't so proud to be germans and rather shy about and prefer to declare they are from Europe. but don't have the vision of the EU in mind, the future but more a pagan pre-christian past.

and want to suppress their germanhood. the german state and natianalsim is hated. the reason lays in the youger history, the middle of the last century.

some kind left wind liberals, that you don't met in pattaya or phuket in Zum Schnitzel Klaus Stube but on koh phanghan. pot smoking. avoiding to admit that they are germans.

another way out from your (disliked) nationality is regionalism. people coming from California, Texas, Bavaria, Romagna, Vlaanderen, Mazury, Vojvodina.

the same thing is in Thailand, the Thais i met here, are more likley to tell me the province, the region where they are come from, north south, surat thani, buri ram, pattani or chieng mei.

up north they know their lanna culture, in chiang rai they have their king mengrai, other provinces have other heros, fruits and their regional culture and histories that they learn at school. and when a deep southerner is on TV he speaks another language und needs to be subtitled. with chinese in bangkok you can collect points if you can sing 'summer in siam' by The Pogues.

there is a lot of diversity in Thailand and it is not a monolithic bloc of THEM. the Thai, they and them are this and that and blah, blah .. often heard on TVforum is bullshit. the question in the OP, the suggested conclusion, is it to a certain degree as well.

[taurus88]

I woud hAve no problem to consider me as a meber of the EU. But i come from an Non-Eu contry.

In asia, and spezial in Thailand the problem is, that leaders (educatet in free countrys) teach the people still things we never woud accept in europe anymoore. One ...,one ........, one .... . (And to top this .... "free" - race and -nation )

How the people can ever make a step forward, if they have to listen to this ower and ower?

There are good books about racial behavior in Asia (Thailand) but you have to look for them in the net alone.

Let's see. Asian is a noun describing people from Asia. Asean too is a noun describing a group of nations in SEA. So the topics is flawed. Why bother even to discuss!!!!!!!

[Birdman]

Europeans calling themselves Europeans are some well to do, good educated Yuppies, artists, collectors and business people, who are internationally interconnected with each other. You won't see them holidaying in PTY, rather in the Caribbean, USA, South France or Samoa etc., but maybe also on KPG and Chiang Mai.

[PhilHarries]

Yeah many wars started over "where do you come from" Anyway all Thais know is theres Thailand and Farangland

Exactly which wars started over "where do you come from"? As I said it is usually one of the opening questions when people of different nationalities meet. I be the Thais love you. "Where are you from?" "Oh, I'm a human citizen of planet Earth". You may as well tell them you come from a minor planet in the outer reaches of the great spiral galaxy M31 in the constellation Andromeda. It will have the same zero effect, I know as I used to tell that to the bar girls in Pattaya and it never registered as the next question was always "how long you come Pattaya?" "just a long weekend, I've a 2.5 million light year return flight".

As a European when I think of Americans it conjures up negative images of corpulence and unnecessary S E Asian Wars.

As a European when I think of Americans I think of all the good guys and gals I've had the pleasure of knowing and working with during my life. I also pause to think of all the thousands of young men who died on the battlefields of Europe so that we may live free and peaceful lives.

Maybe you relate more to der Fuerher's dream of an integrated Europe.

And funnt ain't it when people think of Viet Nam they think of the American war but never the French. If you want to see their finest hour google Dien Bien Phu.

Sorry

As someone has mentioned ASEAN encompasses just way too many diverse cultures for it ever to be more that a talk shop and maybe some free trade stuff but it will never be the Asian equivalent to the EU. The Asians are way too savvy to let that happen.

[Lovia]

I don't know where the research came from but I would not agree that French people call themselves European.

Or any other people in Europe for that matter

And have you talked to someone who is Lanna born and bred? Thai citizen yes , Thai passport yes. Love their King yes. But do they consider they are thai or Lanna?

Talk to them and find out.

Thai of course. We are kon muang(city people) But Thai yes. Don't anyhow assume.

[mca]

As a European when I think of Americans it conjures up negative images of corpulence and unnecessary S E Asian Wars.

As a European when I think of Americans I think of all the good guys and gals I've had the pleasure of knowing and working with during my life. I also pause to think of all the thousands of young men who died on the battlefields of Europe so that we may live free and peaceful lives.

Maybe you relate more to der Fuerher's dream of an integrated Europe.

And funnt ain't it when people think of Viet Nam they think of the American war but never the French. If you want to see their finest hour google Dien Bien Phu.

Obviously tongue in cheek isn't part of your vocabulary Phil.

[volk666]

There's an article in The Economist on the demise of Far Easter Economic Review, one of the best Asian publications.

The reason given is that Asia as an idea ceased to exist. Decades ago it looked like a one place somewhere over there, but as times changed no one thought of it as a single entity anymore, certainly not advertisers who wanted to access each market separately.

The local feelings are the same: "..Asians seem more sure of what divides them than what unites them..."

http://www.economist.com/research/articles...ory_id=14505491

[RickBradford]

ASEAN was set up with a practical goal.

It is a formal commitment not to interfere in whatever another country might be doing. i.e. don't let politics get in the way of business.

So if the US or EU hassles Thailand or Singapore about doing business with the Burmese junta (which they do), ASEAN countries can say: "Sorry, ASEAN charter forbids us from interfering."

Very convenient.

[stolidfeline]

I tried the suggestion several posts back - I asked my family and their friends which countries were in ASEAN. The majority did not know what ASEAN was. One teacher got about 50% right. Everyone else's attention span wandered off topic in about thirty seconds. The most knowledgeable were my Thai-Chinese friends (who had the best education). No surprises here.

[sinecure2]

I think they just identify themselves as thai. I think thai culture is less about labeling than western culture.

[IanForbes]

I can never understand why people are obsessed with where they came from, look at it this way were all human ( well some exceptions) here and that's it.

I dunno. I KNOW where I came from and I keep trying to get back there... providing she lets me.

[IanForbes]

ASEAN was set up with a practical goal.

It is a formal commitment not to interfere in whatever another country might be doing. i.e. don't let politics get in the way of business.

So if the US or EU hassles Thailand or Singapore about doing business with the Burmese junta (which they do), ASEAN countries can say: "Sorry, ASEAN charter forbids us from interfering."

Very convenient.

I didn't know that. Thanks for enlightening me. It makes sense. It's actually been a good discussion because of the knowledge gained. There are usually political motives behind why all sorts of decisions are made. Most people don't concern themselves with who they are, and may, or may not be proud of their heritage.

[luangtom]

As an American, I consider myself 'Western' rather than European ('european' conjures up negative images of oppulence and unnecessary World Wars),

As a European when I think of Americans it conjures up negative images of corpulence and unnecessary S E Asian Wars.

Ahem, does Dien Bien Phu ring a bell? Ten years in Vietnam (Indochina) prior to any US involvement in Vietnam.

French Foreign Legion in Africa? PLEASE, remember Europe's colonization of the world? EU countries have nothing over anyone else when it comes to World Wars or colonization of other countries. They are the ones that perpetrated it. Had it not been for the Europeans and their conflicts within, the World Wars would most likely not have been. And, as an American, I think of Europeans that come to Asia and flaunt their oppulence, corporate vacations and group travel and belittle and degrade the Asians, particularly the Thais that they encounter as wait-persons, hotel staff or drivers. I think of them often, as I am married to a Thai that had to deal with EU visitors and put up with their antics.

[Rumfoord]

As an American, I consider myself 'Western' rather than European ('european' conjures up negative images of oppulence and unnecessary World Wars),

As a European when I think of Americans it conjures up negative images of corpulence and unnecessary S E Asian Wars.

Ahem, does Dien Bien Phu ring a bell? Ten years in Vietnam (Indochina) prior to any US involvement in Vietnam.

French Foreign Legion in Africa? PLEASE, remember Europe's colonization of the world? EU countries have nothing over anyone else when it comes to World Wars or colonization of other countries. They are the ones that perpetrated it. Had it not been for the Europeans and their conflicts within, the World Wars would most likely not have been. And, as an American, I think of Europeans that come to Asia and flaunt their oppulence, corporate vacations and group travel and belittle and degrade the Asians, particularly the Thais that they encounter as wait-persons, hotel staff or drivers. I think of them often, as I am married to a Thai that had to deal with EU visitors and put up with their antics.

Awesome.

Us-americans are awesome.