70 Or Older? Health Insurance For Seniors

[funlovinkid]

I've been living in Thailand for 3 years now, and joined BUPA when I first arrived, based primarily on a few recommendations here on Thai Visa, without examining the terms of the policy much. But now that I'm due for yet another renewal, I decided that it would be wise to compare my policy with other alternatives, like LMG, AXA, NZI, etc.

The more I investigate the situation, the more I find myself wondering if I'll have health insurance at all when I get older (I'm currently 53). All the policies I read start to hedge their bets when I reach the age of around 60 or 65. Some won't renew at all after a certain age, some require that you take a physical exam (and then they reserve the right to add exclusions to your policy), and they all have the right to raise premiums upon policy renewal. It's my conclusion that, as we get older, our options for reasonably affordable health insurance become fewer and fewer. And on top of this, I've concluded that it's best to decide on a health insurance company once, and not change thereafter, because the list of health conditions which are excluded from coverage typically grows longer over time, and most insurance companies will exclude virtually everything ever discovered or treated in the past from the policies of new applicants. This means that it's best to do your homework when you're still relatively young, select a company which you believe will provide you the best coverage as you continue to age, and stick with it.

Part of my evaluation of several insurance companies made me realize that I could benefit from the help of an attorney who is fluent in both Thai and English, so I hired a Thai attorney friend of mine to do some analysis of both Thai law, and of the various Terms & Conditions of the policies I'm considering, and I've reached the following conclusions:

- insurance company contracts have to be approved by the Thai Office of Insurance Commission before the insurance companies can use them, but there is a lot of latitude in how they're written and what provisions they can include (or exclude). These are essentially contracts between the insurance company and the policyholder, governed by Thai contract law, that apply only for the duration of the policy, which is typically one year.

- there is nothing under Thai law that requires insurance companies to renew a policy for anyone, regardless of the length of time the policyholder was with the company, or any other consideration.

- if an insurance company "guarantees renewability" (as some do) under one version of their Terms & Conditions, they can remove that guarantee thereafter in the next version (upon policy renewal), if they so choose.

- there is nothing in Thai law or Thai court case legal precedent that prevents insurance companies from adding exclusions to the policy of a long-term policyholder upon contract renewal. So, even if a health condition appears years after someone first establishes a policy with a particular insurance company, although the company will be obligated to provide coverage for the treatment of that condition under the terms of the current policy contract, they can exclude coverage for that condition (and anything related) in future policy contracts.

- although the premiums charged by the insurance companies have to be approved by the Office of Insurance Commission, the companies have a lot of latitude to increase premiums to the point where a policy could easily become unaffordable.

- the Terms & Conditions for one of the policies I'm considering specifically allows the company to terminate the policy for any reason, with only a 15-day notice to me. My attorney tells me that although this could possibly be successfully disputed in court, it's currently acceptable under Thai law. This of course makes me wonder why anyone would ever agree to buy that policy, as this strikes me as having no insurance at all.

- Thai law allows insurance companies a period of 5 years to discover any health-related information about the applicant which was knowingly omitted, or knowingly falsified, on the initial application for coverage, and then void the policy if they so choose. If the policy is voided, the company is obligated to refund the premium you paid for the term of that policy period, but any coverage under that entire policy period will be denied. This means that if you submit a claim for a significantly expensive health condition, the insurance company will be very motivated to find a legitimate reason to void the policy, which means that you'll find yourself without coverage exactly when you need it most. In addition, you'll already have paid the premiums for policies in previous years which never actually provided the coverage that you thought they would, and lastly, you'll have a record of having been cancelled by an insurance company, which will make it more difficult to get a policy with another company in the future. Although some companies contractually shorten this period of time to only 2 years, the warning still exists: be very careful not to give your insurance company a legal reason to void your policy when you need it the most.

Having said all this, I'm wondering if there are any expat males out there, 65 or older, living in Thailand who have found a company for health insurance which actually has reasonable premiums and pays claims without a hassle? If you'd rather send me a PM rather than posting here, please do! Either way, it would be great to understand my options for the future. Many thanks.

[PaulDee]

Thank you, fun lovin kid,

For a thoughtful, well-written and quite informative message.

You've inspired me to reexamine my local insurance policy and given

me some pointers to consider when seeking alternate providers.

Cheers

[briley]

Over the years I have realized that insurance companies only insure those that won't claim. And health insurance falls slap bang in that category - they will insure you when young and healthy but not when older or unhealthy.

I have looked at insurance over the years for myself, I've been out of the UK for the majority of my life, spending at least 7 or 8 months a year away.

Travel insurance does not work as it

a) only covers travel for 90 days normally and

if you are ill they try to send you 'home' for treatment.

Any full year overseas insurance will cost me and my wife over 50,000 baht a year, and I would have had to pay that for the last 10 years at least (previously I was covered by employer).

So that is half a million baht - assuming I have saved the money it buys a lot of aspirin. And this is the maximum payout on many of the cheaper policies.

So I self insure myself.

(Where did that smiley come from, should be - or bullet point b if that does not work!)

Edited November 5, 2009 by briley

[antony77]

Forget about Thai health insurance companies. At age 70 and over they refuse to insure you or quote you such a ridiculous premium in order to deter you. Like Bt250,000- Bt350,000 per year with a lot of exclusions.

BUPA will continue to insure you after you are 70 provided that you have been insured with them for a long time. You maybe able to take out a worldwide health insurance in your own country,. But you must check thier terms very carefully because I am pretty sure that they have a clause that they can raise thier rates according to age. They did this with my mother in the UK when she was 75 even though she had been insured for many years and never claimed on them. The increased premium was very high and she could not afford it and had to go onto public health which was dreadful.

In Australia and I beleive in the US and other countries, this practice is not allowed because it is discrimination against the elderly. But don't expect Thailand to ever to do this.

Quite frankly medical costs in Thailand are so low and the service in some government hospitals is so cheap and so good, that it is not worth taking out insurance when you are elderly because of the high cost of the policies.

[jazzbo]

I posted the rates a while back for BUPA Thailand 2006 and 2009 -- the published rates stop at age 60-65 but are 82,394 baht (hospitalization only) for their most expensive Platinum policy... so your numbers for age 70 of 250-350K I do not know.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bupa-thailan...rs-t279941.html

[shows]

I have had excellent expat insurance from Australia which, whether it is contrary to the law or not, ceases when I'm 65 - this year! So I've been hunting. There is certainly nothing I have found that comes near the reasonableness of their rates BUT as I've been hospitalised this year and the cost was 500,000 bt (and counting!) even the most expensive insurance is worth it - I mean insurance is for emergencies and you always live in hope you wan't need it.

I've been through a few plans but the best summary of many I've come across is from www.e-insurethailand.com.

I was sent a couple of pages summarising the benefits and giving the costs of a selection of insurers. I found the chap who rang me to discuss the matter very personable. I've not yet bought the product but the summary is very helpful.

The important thing is that there are policies for even the over 80s. And they are not cheap but neither are a few days in hospital.

I hope that is helpful.

[Godolphin]

^As an Aussie planning to retire to Thailand in about a year could you tell me what company you insured with please shows?

[funlovinkid]

Thank you, fun lovin kid,

For a thoughtful, well-written and quite informative message.

You've inspired me to reexamine my local insurance policy and given

me some pointers to consider when seeking alternate providers.

Cheers

I'm glad you find my observations useful. Happy to help!

[jazzbo]

The BUPA (Thailand) Policy says:

11.1 The Company reserves the right not to renew the Policy but must inform the Insured in writing with the reason at least 30 days prior to the Policy expiry date as stated in the Policy Schedule.

However, the Platinum Policy Table of Benefits says:

Members may join before the age of 66 years...Renewal is guaranteed up to the age of 70 years... However, if you join before the age of 61 and are continuously insured, renewal is guaranteed for life.

So if BUPA (Thailand) stays in business, absent failure to pay renewal subscription, they would have a hard time weaseling out of the policy renewal absent some specific cause.

[marshbags]

I,ve been insured by LMG for several years now, without claiming.

My daughter had an accident at school and badly damaged / broke her upper arm.

It needed surgery to repair it and then a further operation to remove the plate the surgeon had to insert.

I noticed this year that I had several expander exclusions ( it started a couple of years ago with one ) on my renewal policy and as there where now five, emailed them asking for an explanation as to what exactly this meant, why they had been added and what effects on any future claims this would mean.

First of all they emailed that as I had claimed over a certain limit, these had to be added.

I emailed that I had not claimed and that it was my daughter who had done so, on her policy, due to a school accident and certainly not illness.

I pay for the two of us and they put it in one policy because of her age. ??????

They then said it was because of possible future claims relating to the exclusions.

They are by the way Cataracts, Cardiovascular disease, Cebrovascular disease, Peripheral vascular disease and last of all Prostrate.

All related to blood circulation / heart apart from the last one in my reckoning as a layman.

I then emailed that both myself and my agent had not been informed this would happen and going back, there was nothing in the notes / small print to say otherwise.

Had we been aware of it, we would have stuck with the existing policy / ins company, I informed them, along with asking if they where prepared to honour the original policy i,d signed up for.

After much exchanging of views they now say they will remove the exclusions if I pay another 15,000 baht on my premium for this year ( I.m thinking..what about next year ect. ect. ) what will be added onto my premiums in the future.

It is not just the loaded add on that are trying to get me to pay, but what if they then come up with excuses not to cover, should I be unfortunate enough to need to make a claim.

My agent was unable to get me other reasonable cover due to my age of 65 years after learning of the above.

The insurance co. have played it crafty to say the least as they will, I,m sure be well aware of this age cut off by the other companies.

Sixty I,m told is the cut off for new customers without inclusion of several limitations, along with very expensive / loaded premiums.

I,m not sure now, either, what age LMG will continue to keep me insured before telling me I,m now to old ????

They originally said 75 but now it looks pretty dodgy, to say the least.

Also how many more exclusions are they likely to load onto my policy come next years renewal.

I,m now wondering if I should pay for the removal this year and trust they will not come up with other refusals to pay, should I need any of the above.

Sadly I,m inclined to say no, due to their questionable integrity based on the moving of the goal posts from when taking the original policy out with them.

marshbags and

Edited November 12, 2009 by marshbags

[shows]

Godolphin

The expat insurance I had in Australia was a QBE policy through the broker Marsh Pty Ltd Expat Med

[email protected]

Payment is extremely easy via credit card and their web site.

I will say that for the 16 years I was a member they were excellent. You can submit a claim by email. I have never had a claim questioned.

I am not sure how they react to individual cover as when I commenced I was working but it did continue once I had retired.

As I said part of the policy NOW says - it didn't 2 years ago - that they will not pay claims for anyone over 65 years of age which is why I've been hunting.

The international part of the business is done by AXA.

This year I had a major medical expense and except when I ran over my pharmaceutical limit because of the exorbitant rates the hospitals charge for medicines (I can buy them for a third to a half cheaper at any reputable chemist) they covered most of my costs.

I've been very satisfied and would recommend them. They also cover you if you are ill in Australia for costs not covered by Medicare such as private hospital treatment.

[marshbags]

Does anyone have know of reasonable cover for a £900 for a 65 year old ?

Before deciding if to pay the additional premiums ( after getting written assurances of the cover on the present listed exclusions ) please.

marshbags

[shows]

Marshbags

As I said above get in touch with Tony at www.e-insurethailand.com and he will send you a summary of a number of different plans and different costs. Very detailed for a comparison. It does include LMU but also gives others BUT precluding pre-existing conditions are a condition of all of them.

[jsflynn603]

So... looking this over, essentially, at best, insurance over the age of 70 will last between 15 and 30 days, since it seems that the policy can be changed. Even if not, there is nothing limiting exponential increases in cost so rapidly that if a condition comes into play, you will be forced to pay for it.

It appears that in Thailand insurance is for "comfort of the mind," meaning well, it will cover something short term, and one would "hope" it would cover something long term, but clearly it will not.

Even Jazzbo's post about Bupa makes me wonder. Sure if you joined before age 61, you are guaranteed coverage for life, but what about potential exponential premium increases?

And to see cataract excluded: At age 75, 90+% of all people will have cataract changes. And prostate cancer is the number #1 cancer for males. So excluding these as well as cardio-vascular disease, it is apparent that most likely your insurance will not be of help.

At this point, as I see it, Thailand is not a good place to die, even if one has adequate resources. There seems to be an inherent "fear" of opioid related medications even within the medical community. Therefore end of life pain (if one is so unlucky to have a painful end of life) is unlikely to be well controlled. I hope that this changes. In America, from my experiences (I work in the medical field) even hospice (dying at home) with the help of a visiting nurse is a good, dignified and comfortable death, even if major pain is a factor.

The economics of health care is affecting most countries without a social based health-care system. And "trickery" is the name of the game it seems. Two years ago I had a great job with great benefits. Now, two years later I am at the same job, and make the same pay, but one by one, benefits, be they 401k matching contributions (a retirement plan); the 401k option itself; a pre-tax medical savings plan allowing one to put money aside "pre-tax"; dental insurance, etc. are now gone or changed into garbage. My "old" insurance policy covered everything and had a $1 million dollar lifetime cap. My "new" policy has a $2,000 annual cap, and will pay a whopping $50 for an Emergency Room (Department) visit, which generally cost here about $800 to $7,000.

Perhaps it is time for someone to start a plan that is more like a "medical pension." Each pays into it, and like a pension, instead of age being the factor for withdrawal, medical costs will be. There could be a scheme whereby a percentage would go into a pool, thus extraordinary costs would be covered to a higher point than what some might actually have put in. Done correctly it would afford a good level of piece of mind, and a possible residual (portion invested returned upon death, like an insurance policy, if you are lucky enough to die in your sleep.

[jsflynn603]

The following will be of interest mainly to USA expats or expats2b:

Since I'm an expat2b this thread intrigues....

I wondered if my medicaid will cover me in Thailand... Oh no it won't!

Since links are not allowed here if you want to see the entire article then search google, use:

"MEDICARE BENEFITS OVERSEAS FOR U.S. EXPATRIATES by John W McGee"

In it he quoted an unnamed source that sums things up well, and gives me an eye-opener to what Medicare really is:

Contrary to political myth, Medicare does not provide health insurance to people; it provides payment insurance to the health care industry. In the post-war years, health care executives realized that the best way to protect their revenue was to identify the people who most used their services -- people over 65 -- and have the government guarantee their hospital bills. Thus was born Medicare Part A."

Viewed in that light, Medicare's rule against foreign reimbursements makes sense. The low price of high-quality, overseas health care is good for patients and good for the Treasury, but it's terrible for U.S. health care providers. They want that money! And they dam_n sure won't allow their pet goose to stop laying golden eggs.

So the Medicare laws contain a "Benedict Arnold" provision which prohibits otherwise eligible U.S. citizens from collecting benefits if they are treated abroad. While this theoretically affects everyone, the brunt is felt by expat retirees.

So now this is my take: If you have a major illness that will be drawn out and expensive, hurry back to the Grand 'ol USA, even if you need to rent a cheap apartment.

Yes, the people in America no longer run the country, it is quite clear that it is run by the Pharmaking (Medical Industry) in cahoots with the Banking Industry. Oh well.....

The rest of the article is interesting also.

[jsflynn603]

Accidental double post, content deleted.

Edited November 15, 2009 by jsflynn603

[GungaDin]

From World Nomads

Hi John

Thanks for your email and apologies for the delayed response.

Unfortunately World Nomads is only able to cover those aged under 66 years of age when you purchase your policy.Apologies but there is no option to pay an additional loading to cover those older than 65 years.

Please try the below company and you may be in luck!

Travel Insurance Direct

www.tid.com.au

Kind regards

Kellie

World Nomads

A$950 for 12 months cover! but better than nothing.....

[jazzbo]

And to see cataract excluded: At age 75, 90+% of all people will have cataract changes. And prostate cancer is the number #1 cancer for males. So excluding these as well as cardio-vascular disease, it is apparent that most likely your insurance will not be of help.

I am reviewing the current (2548) BUPA Terms of Health and Accident Insurance Policy for Individuals and Families Section 24. Waiting Period 1. through 3. and Section 27. General Exclusions 1. through 17.

The post above in italics is not accurate.

Also, especially for the non-TANKS, the USA Medicare Policy is an 80%/20% program and the 80% part is not always free depending upon your work history -- a separate Private Insurance policy called MediGap is usually purchased by the over 65 crowd for the 20% part -- and that MediGap policy alone will be most likely be more than full coverage post-age 65 by BUPA or another insurer here in Thailand.

[marshbags]

And to see cataract excluded: At age 75, 90+% of all people will have cataract changes. And prostate cancer is the number #1 cancer for males. So excluding these as well as cardio-vascular disease, it is apparent that most likely your insurance will not be of help.

I am reviewing the current (2548) BUPA Terms of Health and Accident Insurance Policy for Individuals and Families Section 24. Waiting Period 1. through 3. and Section 27. General Exclusions 1. through 17.

The post above in italics is not accurate.

Also, especially for the non-TANKS, the USA Medicare Policy is an 80%/20% program and the 80% part is not always free depending upon your work history -- a separate Private Insurance policy called MediGap is usually purchased by the over 65 crowd for the 20% part -- and that MediGap policy alone will be most likely be more than full coverage post-age 65 by BUPA or another insurer here in Thailand.

I have just learned that I am covered for the above conditions up to a limit of 498,000 Baht on my existing policy and 1,750,000 on all other conditions not listed as exclusions under the general terms and conditions of LMG

I am now trying to ascertain what the age limit is in my particular case.

marshbags

[chiang mai]

Health insurance premiums, just like all insurance premiums, are based on fear and therefore best avoided - best solution I think is to retain personal wealth going into old age and avoid insurance premiums where possible, controversial of course and not suited to everyone.

[marshbags]

Marshbags

As I said above get in touch with Tony at www.e-insurethailand.com and he will send you a summary of a number of different plans and different costs. Very detailed for a comparison. It does include LMU but also gives others BUT precluding pre-existing conditions are a condition of all of them.

Apologies for not acknowledging your post before S

I contacted Tony and he has sent me some info and alternatives, which he said are limited due to my age.

After 60 it becomes very difficult and he is in agreement with observations on this point.

All require a medical examination for new customers.

He has taken the care of emailing all related details I may wish to read up on, and I have.

LMG which is the company I already use offers the best options for lower premiums, and I have posted the existing cover I get at present, when replying to J. Bo in the last post on this thread, so will not upset anyone by repeating it again.

There is a more expensive one that covers more than I have at present ( PROVIDING ONE PASSES A COMPREHENSIVE MEDICAL CHECK UP.)

Sorry for highlighting the latter in caps, no offence meant.

Thank you again for your input, it is much appreciated.

marshbags

If I can have permission, I can post / share the info he kindly provided for our aging members and those approaching 60.

If not anyone who may wish to view it please PM me and i,ll try to forward it via that method.

marshbags

Edited November 19, 2009 by marshbags

[JoePai]

Marshbags

As I said above get in touch with Tony at www.e-insurethailand.com and he will send you a summary of a number of different plans and different costs. Very detailed for a comparison. It does include LMU but also gives others BUT precluding pre-existing conditions are a condition of all of them.

Apologies for not acknowledging your post before S

I contacted Tony and he has sent me some info and alternatives, which he said are limited due to my age.

After 60 it becomes very difficult and he is in agreement with observations on this point.

All require a medical examination for new customers.

He has taken the care of emailing all related details I may wish to read up on, and I have.

LMG which is the company I already use offers the best options for lower premiums, and I have posted the existing cover I get at present, when replying to J. Bo in the last post on this thread, so will not upset anyone by repeating it again.

There is a more expensive one that covers more than I have at present ( PROVIDING ONE PASSES A COMPREHENSIVE MEDICAL CHECK UP.)

Sorry for highlighting the latter in caps, no offence meant.

Thank you again for your input, it is much appreciated.

marshbags

If I can have permission, I can post / share the info he kindly provided for our aging members and those approaching 60.

If not anyone who may wish to view it please PM me and i,ll try to forward it via that method.

marshbags

No need to post/pm etc etc - I found the easiest way was to email Thai Visa Insurance direct - at least we know they are full licensed Insurance Brokers

[jazzbo]

Health insurance premiums, just like all insurance premiums, are based on fear and therefore best avoided - best solution I think is to retain personal wealth going into old age and avoid insurance premiums where possible, controversial of course and not suited to everyone.

True. However, it is a fallacious assumption that people of wealth -- at least in the USA -- do not buy health insurance... If you talk to many they see it as a bargain. Or to paraphrase an old USA TV commercial about a wealthy man who watches the pennies:"How do you think a man like me, got to be a man like me?"

You might pay $1000 per year for 10 years and never have a claim; but if you did have an illness, odds are you would never have had the $10,000 or more at any one point in time. And given the mathematics, it is no surprise that insurance companies become almost punitive if you wait to become subscriber until after the age of 60 when hospitalization becomes much more likely.

I always marvel at the term 'maternity insurance'. I mean, what is the probability that the average healthy female -- of any country -- between the ages of 25 and 35 will at some point become pregnant? Pretty darn close to 100%. You are not buying insurance; you are swapping dollars with the insurance company, more like financing the pregnancy(ies) over a 10 year period. Same with old age.

The term self-insurance as often used here is a misnomer: self-insurance is not NO insurance. It just means, for an individual, that you retain a large deductible as 'self-insured' and then buy a catastrophic policy what would kick-in should have any major claim such as above $5,000 or $10,000... and I think fear as used above has very little to do with it... it is just dealing with both the near certainties and chance occurrences of life. And probably everyone who had a catastrophic illness without adequate insurance thought that it would never happen to them.

Edited November 19, 2009 by jazzbo

[marshbags]

No need to post/pm etc etc - I found the easiest way was to email Thai Visa Insurance direct - at least we know they are full licensed Insurance Brokers

This thread started on 04-11-09 and I still do not see any *input from your recommended source re the subject matter.

Had I been running it, I would have jumped at the opportunity to participate when the thread was opened.

They have not and we as members are offering our own thoughts and experiences, along with genuinely posting possible helpful information.

The advice I was emailed was given freely, without conditions and I found it very informative ect. ect.

It was sent by return the following morning as well by the way ???

marshbags

* I offered opportunities for input and failed so got it elsewhere ( posts 10 and 12 )

Edited November 20, 2009 by marshbags

[GungaDin]

No need to post/pm etc etc - I found the easiest way was to email Thai Visa Insurance direct - at least we know they are full licensed Insurance Brokers

So is Tony!

[jazzbo]

(About Me) Tony D -- I am an American. I was a life and health insurance broker for many years in the States. I have been living in Thailand for 20 years. My Thai wife is a licensed insurance broker in Thailand.

Edited November 20, 2009 by jazzbo

[tonydabbs]

I posted the rates a while back for BUPA Thailand 2006 and 2009 -- the published rates stop at age 60-65 but are 82,394 baht (hospitalization only) for their most expensive Platinum policy... so your numbers for age 70 of 250-350K I do not know.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bupa-thailan...rs-t279941.html

They increase 10% per year after age 65, according to Bupa.

[marshbags]

Just confirmed that there is NO age limit on existing policy holders with LMG.

They do however increase the premiums on a yearly basis for older policy holders, over and above any other across the board ones that may be introduced.

They also add additional exclusions as you get older in terms relating to extended cover as per LMG insurance rules.

I could pay an extra 15k to have them removed this year, but this is only for the ongoing period of 1 year / from the renewal date.

Again I,m, still not sure if I will take up their offer based on this latest communication with them.

They all move the goal posts as and when it suits them ( Insurance Co.s ) so who knows what tomorrow may bring, cover wise ????

Tony was spot on with his recommendations by the way and he didn,t charge me anything for the info.

marshbags

Edited December 4, 2009 by marshbags

[antony77]

Marshbags

As I said above get in touch with Tony at www.e-insurethailand.com and he will send you a summary of a number of different plans and different costs. Very detailed for a comparison. It does include LMU but also gives others BUT precluding pre-existing conditions are a condition of all of them.

Apologies for not acknowledging your post before S

I contacted Tony and he has sent me some info and alternatives, which he said are limited due to my age.

After 60 it becomes very difficult and he is in agreement with observations on this point.

All require a medical examination for new customers.

He has taken the care of emailing all related details I may wish to read up on, and I have.

LMG which is the company I already use offers the best options for lower premiums, and I have posted the existing cover I get at present, when replying to J. Bo in the last post on this thread, so will not upset anyone by repeating it again.

There is a more expensive one that covers more than I have at present ( PROVIDING ONE PASSES A COMPREHENSIVE MEDICAL CHECK UP.)

Sorry for highlighting the latter in caps, no offence meant.

Thank you again for your input, it is much appreciated.

marshbags

If I can have permission, I can post / share the info he kindly provided for our aging members and those approaching 60.

If not anyone who may wish to view it please PM me and i,ll try to forward it via that method.

marshbags

You must do a bit of research. But there are very good government hospitals in Thailand.

which charge very little and so make insurance for the elderly just not worth it. We use a military hospital that charges about Bt50 to see a specialist. Sripat Hospital (chiangmai) is a semi government hospital with world class doctors if you need heart surgery etc. We

use wholesale Chinese pharmacies for all our medication and always buy generic equivilants. (1/3 rd cost of hospital medicine

[oldsailor35]

Over the years I have realized that insurance companies only insure those that won't claim. And health insurance falls slap bang in that category - they will insure you when young and healthy but not when older or unhealthy.

I have looked at insurance over the years for myself, I've been out of the UK for the majority of my life, spending at least 7 or 8 months a year away.

Travel insurance does not work as it

a) only covers travel for 90 days normally and

if you are ill they try to send you 'home' for treatment.

Any full year overseas insurance will cost me and my wife over 50,000 baht a year, and I would have had to pay that for the last 10 years at least (previously I was covered by employer).

So that is half a million baht - assuming I have saved the money it buys a lot of aspirin. And this is the maximum payout on many of the cheaper policies.

So I self insure mysel

Well, i am not conversant with Brit Bank Credit Cards. But as i have said in another place. My Australian Credit Card, provided i buy my ticket with it, will cover me free of charge with Zurich Insurance. I have a Platinum card so get 12 mths free travel insurance even though i am over 70 yrs. Lesser cards give a reduced cover, some only 3 months. The last time i checked was 12 months ago and i would have had to pay something like $A1700............what a saving !

(Where did that smiley come from, should be - or bullet point b if that does not work!)