George Bush motorcade

[chonabot]

By the way, is Mr V's avatar Buster Gonad and his unfeasibly large testicles or what?

Hmm I was sure it was "Aldridge Prior , the World's biggest Liar"

[Axel]

One thing you spoke about GW's fathers war, you don't believe that that was a mistake do you?  Nobody here honestly believes it would have been good to let Saddam just annex Kuwait?  Yes he made a mistake in my opinion it was listening to the UN and not going straight to bagdad...

Biggest mistake ever, he should have gone straight on.

Kuwait was a different story and the father had the backing of the UN...

I am really not convinced of the oil/WMD/terrorist etc. - stories. More simple, he wants to finish what Papa did not do.

Emotions are always coming up in these kind of discussions.

Your opinion is very pro, mine thumbs down for GW.

Still I was surprised to see a lot of negative comments for GWB coming straight out of the US. Seems myself is not standing alone.

However, my main point is. Bush is not the world police leader and cannot be. What is a police force? The executive arm controlled by legislation and jurisdiction.

Who controls Mr. President?

That's why I want more power to the UN who with financial backing can appoint a police force.

[ericsshop]

"I don't fight with the handicapped and I am not impressed by your retard long post. It's all trash. Go buy a brain or something."

Your the typical uneducated sheep you claim Americans are.

Actually I will agree with you on this point, but will say America has two flocks of sheep.  

But you forget those that blindly follow the left wing idealogical movement that started in 13th century France with the Amaurians with the delusional antinomian philosophy.  Re-inventing itself over the next four centuries due mainly to persecution until it ended up with the libertine movement.  Although Clinton has to be considered one of the most prolific antinomianist' in history followed by the venerable Thomas Jefferson.  As well Thomas Jefferson praised the "libertine" movement in France and their bloody revolution and espoused that every society should have one every so often.  He had extremely rash thoughts on the subject which he put to paper on numerous dare I say on dozens of instances.  Ben Franklin one of the great "free thinkers" another wolf in sheep's clothing.  

After which the movement has evolved itself into various philosophical splinter groups that in the end strive for the same thing but when push comes to shove ends up killing itself off after that thing they desire most "absolute power" is achieved.  Two perfect examples being Russia under Stalin and China under Mao with the cultural revolution.  Doing in all those intellectuals that helped him get where he was as he was the winner and had to do away with any and all threat to his power as did Stalin.  

Its rather odd though that both examples of the so-called perfect communist societies that intellectuals st rived for centuries to create resulted in although highly intelligent maniacal leaders they both were rather unintellectual and were nothing more than tyrants.  But they did understand the need to do in the intellectuals in their midst.

The republicans are just the same they just took a different path with different groups the Masons immediately comes to mind which all are familiar with.   And if you wish I can go into detail of their start splintering off from the Free Spirit movement and evolution through history but I post such long boring posts so I won't.

But in the end its all about the same BS power and idealogical thought and the hopes that you can get enough of the undereducated on your side to grasp power and form your perfect societies.

Thats what you nitwits hope that people are and for the most part remain under educated and do not have the desire to read anything other than the cartoons in a newspaper.  You hope, that most are as majority on this board.  That they haven't a clue to what I am talking about, and that they never will truly know and understand anything about you idealogical types both on the right and the left.

I was exactly like you my first 6 years out of university,  the problem was I never stopped reading and thus became more a less a traitor to the socialist idealogical BS.  I've read it all Plato, Marx, Aristotle, Machiavelli, Sun Tzu etc.  Its all about power nothing else just different forms set to romantic BS themes. But in the end its about nothing but power over your fellow man whether in the conservative strain or liberal strain as both take bits and pieces for their own.  I despise the lot of you, right wing left wing, conservative, liberal, socialist, communist etc etc.  

Most in society and on this message board haven't a clue when they hear the terms "free thinker" or "free spirit" or "libertine".  Christ they think the libertine movement started with the french revolution, wrong.  They haven't a clue what an agrarian is or an epicurean is.  They think its all just romantic intellectual talk and haven't a clue to their real meanings or the histories and evolution of such thoughts through the centuries among the intellectual elite.

The republicans are actually intellectually dishonest as they accuse you of being elitist while they are the same in their beliefs although different variation, but slam the liberal left for it constantly.  Your are both just splinter groups of the same thing one just went one route and one the other each holding the contempt for the other.  The republicans going the Christian way and the liberals going the anti-namiansim way.  The liberals holding the the republicans in contempt for being sellouts for the almighty dollar.  Where as, the republicans hold the liberals in contempt for trying to take from them their gains and give it to the unworthy.

Most don't understand that you both believe, at the least the most intelligent and highly educated in both groups, believe that there are two groups of people on earth.  One being the "crude" that fail to cultivate the potential in them and will always remain that way.  Which is the I suppose are in your mind at least are the "white trash" "nascar watching" "oprah winfrey watching" or in Europe the "football hooligans" in society (which both liberals and conservatives despise by the way).  And the other being those that did cultivate it and therefore were above it all and could live without guilt of conscience no matter what their actions.  The liberal without guilt of their immorality and their willingness to do anything to achieve what they perceived as the overall good of man.  And the republican conservative the ability to be free of guilt from his excesses in wealth and power no matter who he stepped on to get their and to keep it.

I suggest anyone that likes to read and is interested in polotics of all kinds read the true story Batavia's Graveyard (critically acclaimed by all Wash Post, Times etc not neo-con  BS).  Its about a shipwreck near Indonesia in the 17th century its not only exciting but eye opening.  Just what can happen when one with such idealogical and philosophical views finds themselves with a shot at absolute power, on no matter how small a scale , no matter what their political leaning.  If your the reading type, and no  its not overly intellectual fluff.  Its, as said, a true story but does in a chapter briefly delve into the different idealogical and philosophical beliefs of the main character and the histories of those beliefs  so that the reader is more aware of the events that occur and their causes so that the average reader can understand.  Don't keep your mind closed no matter what your political persuasian,  but it does show the reasons how absolute state power no matter socialist, communist etc can never due to human nature of those in power that ultimately all hold those beliefs in one form or another.

You butterfly are one of the blind sheep that one idealogical movement has following it, or are intellectualy dishonest for not admitting what the true historical and philosophical beliefs of your movement is if you indeed understand it.  Don't tell me you believe that no matter the political idealogical belief the elititist politicians of the world, pretty much discount and despise the working class?  Both feeling they need to create the perfect world for them?

If you don't have a clue,  then it is you who need to read a book or 100, moron.  You have nothing other to say but childish playground BS.

And lay off the neo-con BS I hate you both liberal and conservative equally and democraticaly.

[ericsshop]

"However, my main point is. Bush is not the world police leader and cannot be. What is a police force? The executive arm controlled by legislation and jurisdiction.

Who controls Mr. President?"

I agree whole heartedly in this as GW goes off the idealogical deep end here.  Its just another outlandish idealogical way of thinking,  I wish he would have stayed more in the center as he appeared he was doing in the beginning.

Some think I agree with everything this guy does, or that I don't think at times he's tip toeing on the edge of idealogical reality, but I do believe he does at times.  This is when I am thankful we have the checks and balances and the opposition is there to smack him back to reality.  

"That's why I want more power to the UN who with financial backing can appoint a police force."

I would agree with you here as well, if the Un could just get its act together at times.  face reality at others, like putting Lybia or Syria in charge of anything such as human rights etc etc.  

And if they would just do what they say they will and not try to play countries off each other or countries acting in the best interests of the world and not the good of themselves.

All are guilty in that respect, first to mind is Bush as well as every other politician that has led the US since '67.  We need to vote for whats right and demand as such especially when it comes to the Israel/Palestinian thing.  Long ago we should have as a naion told the jewish community tough zhit and forced Israel to go back to where the war started and give the land back to the Palestinians.

Everyone of our presidents has had the wrong Camp David meeting in my opinion.  The meetings should have been held with whoever the leader of Israel was at whatever time in the past 30 years, you get no money until you do, no aid, no military arms nothing.  

This is whay we are hated by the entire Muslim world, in my opinion.

But they are typical politicians and in such are cowards, all of them when it all comes down to it.  I dislike 99% of politicians of all shades but trust in the hope that the US with the checks and balances has the best of whats out there.  Maybe we don't but I just cannot see the European version where one party has absolute power whether its for three years or 4 or 5.  For me that is just to dangerous especially with the power the US has wielded since the early 20th century.

[tutsiwarrior]

eric...I'm confused about your choice of terms. Don Juan was a libertine...no one ever said nothing about his politics...

[chonabot]

Umm , that'll be a long boring post then...

[Butterfly]

"I don't fight with the handicapped and I am not impressed by your retard long post. It's all trash. Go buy a brain or something."

Your the typical uneducated sheep you claim Americans are.

Actually I will agree with you on this point, but will say America has two flocks of sheep.  

blah blah blah [insert more insane NeoCon rant]

blah blah blah [insert google script here]

And lay off the neo-con BS I hate you both liberal and conservative equally and democraticaly.

How long did it take you to google all that, son ?

Your mispelling was different this time, so it looks like a copy/paste from another right winger script.

and what is it with your obsession with "libertinage", 18th Century France, the liberals, and the #### communists ? how do they all fit together ? you can't seriously believe all the crap you have posted. Nobody is that stupid or insane.

So you are a NeoCon ?? as expected. Well, what else can be said ? you are just another traitor.

I know whose fault it is: CLINTON GOT A BLOWJOB

:laugh:

[Butterfly]

eric...I'm confused about your choice of terms. Don Juan was a libertine...no one ever said nothing about his politics...

yeah, libertinage is a very "ancient" political party !!!  

far worse than the liberal media conspiracy  

[Luma]

So, did someone actually see Pres. Bush motorcade in Bangkok??

That was the topic of this thred!

[chonabot]

Ah , the topic was actually Bush Motorcade in Tokyo you see.......

[mrvietnam2001]

Here's one of those other "madmen" Libertarians.

Mr Vietnam

HOSTAGES TO U.S. POLICY

Danger welcomes Americans abroad

By DOUG BANDOW

JAKARTA -- "It's dangerous here for Americans," said my cab driver when

I

visited a few weeks ago. No question. A few blocks away sat the J.W.

Marriott, its facade broken and blackened from the bombing in August.

Scores

of windows were blown out; mutilated blinds swayed in the wind. Wrecked

autos sat as silent sentinels in the hotel driveway.

Westerners were almost entirely absent on Jakarta's streets. The

Indonesians

I visited worried about my safety. "People hate Americans," said one;

"they

are very much against Americans," said another. Osama bin Laden posters

still sell in some Islamic neighborhoods as rumors circulate that the

CIA

arranged the Marriott bombing.

During the war with Iraq last spring, the owner of Jakarta's McDonald's

franchises let it be known that he was a Muslim. It was one city where

I did

not jog, even though I've run everywhere from Pyongyang to Pristina.

Security was ubiquitous. At the Sheraton, where I stayed, guards

examined

every car at driveway checkpoints. Another guard used an electronic

wand to

check guests and luggage entering the hotel. The clerk at the reception

desk

tried to reassure me: "You're safe here."

An upscale mall checked vehicles as they entered, and an employee at

the

Hard Rock Cafe searched my backpack. Even as the Indonesian terrorist

Hambali, thought to be involved in the bombings of both the Marriott

and in

Bali, was arrested, the American and Australian governments warned

their

citizens to avoid any Western-owned hotel in Jakarta. Hambali's group,

Jemaah Islamiyah, remains a potent threat.

To fear being murdered for one's nationality is humbling. The mere fact

that

Americans are resented doesn't prove that they or their government are

wrong. But the fact that such sentiments pervade friendly and hostile

nations alike should cause serious reflection.

Common is the "they hate us because we are beautiful" thesis, expressed

in

the aftermath of 9/11 by U.S. President George W. Bush. And, no doubt,

some

people, particularly Islamists and other traditionalists, do resent a

culture that they see as licentious and degrading. But people typically

don't kill because they dislike Disneyland, MTV or liberal democracy.

Instead, they attempt to isolate themselves.

Indeed, polls by John Zogby find that Muslims and Arabs like many of

the

attributes of Western culture. They like American products and

freedoms.

What they don't like are policies of the U.S. government. It is such

policies -- long centered around Iraq, Israel and Saudi Arabia -- that

have

helped spark a hatred strong enough to kill. Alas, Zogby found that

positive

ratings toward America have collapsed with the war on Iraq. One

Indonesian

told me: "Even before, when America attacked Afghanistan, they were

angry."

But it's gotten "worse, much worse," with the attack on Iraq, he said.

This should surprise no one. Terrorism around the world, from the

Tamils in

Sri Lanka to the Irish Republican Army in Northern Ireland, typically

represents a particularly vicious battle front in an ongoing political

struggle. Palestinians who murder Israeli civilians don't do so out of

an

abstract dislike of Jewish culture, but as part of a bloody struggle

over a

single piece of land. Killers of Americans at the World Trade Center,

Australians in Bali and Westerners in Jakarta perceive a crusade

against

Islam.

Were America's only critics Islamic tribalists, they could more easily

be

ignored. But antagonism toward the U.S. is increasingly evident even

among

friendly peoples and states.

A British conservative member of Parliament privately bemoans American

support for Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. A Thai intellectual

criticizes U.S. arrogance.

A Kuwaiti government official worries that restrictive immigration

restrictions are losing America friends. A Portuguese tour guide rues

U.S.

unilateralism.

An Australian wonders how a superpower could act so frightened of a

decrepit

Mideast dictatorship. A German journalist denounces an administration

so

determined on war without allied support -- but then so insistent on

postwar

allied aid.

Such criticism resonates given American ignorance about foreign

affairs.

Many fervent Christian supporters of Israel seem blissfully unaware

that

more than 3 million Palestinians live under Israeli control in the Gaza

Strip and West Bank. There may be good reasons to back Israel, but

peace is

unlikely to come as long as Palestinians live in conditions that

neither

Israelis nor Americans would accept.

Many Americans erroneously believed that former Iraqi President Saddam

Hussein was involved in the 9/11 atrocities. Whatever the argument for

attacking Iraq in an attempt to remake the Mideast, it was not just

another

step in the war on terrorism.

Few Americans can imagine what it is like to have another power,

however

benign its behavior or worthy its intentions, constantly hector,

criticize

and threaten. Yet Washington routinely acts as the world's governess.

Criticism doesn't mean Washington shouldn't act when it believes itself

to

be right and its action to be necessary. It doesn't mean the United

States

should flee unpopularity when great principles and interests are at

stake.

But Americans must realize that they are hated for more than their

beauty.

Although Americans don't deserve to be in danger, U.S. policy often

puts

them at greater risk.

Doug Bandow is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute.

The Japan Times: Oct. 20, 2003

 

[ericsshop]

I am sorry I was actually taking the time to proofread and spell check what I was writing after seeing Axel refer to his doing as spell check in his previous post.  Cut and paste?  I am notorius for the inability to spell correctly to form a proper sentence etc as I hated the subject of English and took little effort in it and skated by barely passing the subject my entire life.  You picked up on my ability to spell correctly this time but I know I had to have had some terrible sentence structure.  I really doubt that anyhwere on the web there is poor writing such as my own as for me to be able to cut and paste it.  

I would love for you to cut and paste and sentence I wrote (poorly as its structured no doubt) and find a single hit of an exact phrase or anything near.  

Just for kicks I did a search on libertine and the french revolution just now on yahoo and #### if the top hit wasn't marxist.com I guess the marxist feel they had something idealogically similar.

 And if you don't see anything linking the libertines and the communist ideal you need to have a chat with a communist.  

"yeah, libertinage is a very "ancient" political party"

I never said anything of the sort and actually never referred to the libertinage party as it had nothing to do with the subject that I was speaking of.  I said the libertine movement and in just about everything I can remember that Thomas Jefferson ever put to paper about the subject he refferred to the libertines and their ideals when speaking of the French Revolution.  As he agreed not only with them and their ideals but that they were in fact the cause and leaders of the French revolution.  Everyone at the time did,  thats just factual history, sorry.

"Re-inventing itself over the next four centuries due mainly to persecution until it ended up with the libertine movement."

Thats what I said...

The various groups etc whatever the moment in history after the birth of the movement in France in the 13th century always were composed of the educated, the intellectual.  As well the cultural players of the times, musicians, painters etc, those that fealt they were enlightened by the cultivation of there intellect through learning or art but more often than not through discussion most happening when they were inebriated.  

I also never said the libertine movement started in France  with the French revolution?  It wasn't until the 18th century in France when the movement got totally out of hand and really started pushing the "do as you please without fear of conscience" especially in the area of sexuality.  

Although the idea of sexual freedom without conscience as well as almost all other acts excluding murder was deeply antrenched in various splinter groups of the movement and its reincarnations or reinventions if you so choose dating back to the 15th century.  It was all about freedom of mind/thought etc and the ability to act on such freedoms of mind etc.  

It was in Antwerp actually the libertines gained a strong presence and power among the cultural elite, I believe in the mid 16th century after I think the Spiritual Liberty movement or the Free Spirit movement I cannot remember exactly which I am sorry I am tired, but whichever was almost entirely wiped out and in turn what few were left and reinvented themselves as the libertine movement.   Again if I am wrong on the date or if it was the Free Spirit or Spiritual Liberty sorry, sue me?  

And the libertines (the intellectual idealogues) were the leaders of the revolution and of what happened with the atrocities during the French revolution, thats fact.

I mean seriously if you don't understand what I said or don't have a clue as to the history of the whole thing fair enough but to try and belittle me is childish.  

And I still say I hate you both lefties and righties your idealogues out for yourselves and nothing else.  Keep the general masses dumb and fight over who gets to rule them, thats the ticket.

[chonabot]

And I still say I hate you both lefties and righties your idealogues out for yourselves and nothing else.  Keep the general masses dumb and fight over who gets to rule them, thats the ticket.

So you'll be a middle-y then?

[tutsiwarrior]

whew...I prefer aubergines either in a pie with parmagiana cheese or roasted, ground and mixed with tahini for a nice baba ganoush...

get outta here...when are you gonna realise that people read these threads for entertainment and that no one is gonna want to scrutinize details of your long winded bull shit?

encapsulate my friends...use the editing skills that the good lord gave you to present your argument in a concise and compelling manner...

don't like the idea of electronic pamphleteering...

[chonabot]

Basically I just type loads of bumpf and hope people get bored sh1tless before realising there is no point etc etc

Ahhh , so that's the ticket eh?

[SoCal]

Bitterfly- I invite you for a drink, and you go on to attack me? Wasn't looking to fight you as much as get a laugh at what a poor pathetic sob you are in real life. That has to be worth 80 baht. No need now, as you prove it time and time again in your postings.

Tutsi- I am a libertarian because I don't believe in big government, and big tax bills. Nothing more sinister to it. Yes, let's meet at Nana. You bring your army, and I'll bring mine. Should be a bloody good time.  Can hardly wait to get my share of POW in lock down back at the hotel.

Mr. V- A drink anytime my good man.

[huski]

So, did someone actually see Pres. Bush motorcade in Bangkok??

I saw the BUSH motorcade cruise by a few times from my office window today. Not hard to miss his stretched limo as all the other leaders had BMWs.

Now I will let you guys get back to your political fight.

[Pinkster]

I saw the BUSH

Lucky you! But no need to brag

[curveblade]

ericsshop,

Read your posts. Have to say I agree with your first two 100%. I'm probably a little more to the right than you. Will be in Bangkok in March. Would like to buy you a beer, or several.

[plachon]

So, did someone actually see Pres. Bush motorcade in Bangkok??

I saw the BUSH motorcade cruise by a few times from my office window today. Not hard to miss his stretched limo as all the other leaders had BMWs.

Now I will let you guys get back to your political fight.

Hope you shouted - "WE GOT BUSH" - at the top of your voice, just to let the cops know how much you appreciate the all-new Thailand! Hopefully they'll go and coverup this obsenity to decency as soon as possible.

[plachon]

By the way, is Mr V's avatar Buster Gonad and his unfeasibly large testicles or what?

Hmm I was sure it was "Aldridge Prior , the World's biggest Liar"

Nah, Chon, that should be his nom de plume - see how he swore he was going to ignore me, but just couldn't keep his promise (more the fool). But his avatar is a different matter - they're either giant gonads or massive prolapsed Farmer Gileses and you know who that means he models himself on?

By the way, agree entirely with your PM.

[Axel]

...Not hard to miss his stretched limo as all the other leaders had BMWs.

Now I will let you guys get back to your political fight.

His stretched limo explains why he had to get out on the wrong side and stumble around the car yesterday at Government House.

Why he had to use a different car than anybody else?

Clinton and Monica I would have understood, more comfortable, but Bush?

Hey, no fighting, just save the world, have a look in today's Nation (letters), here an abbr. extract:

Beer bar delegates know how to solve all problems

Everyday a couple groups of Thais, Americans, Australians, New Zealanders, Brits etc, gather at various pubs and solve virtually all major world problems.

The sessions start at approximately 6pm. Be advised that “some” drinking is involved and therefore it would be prudent to not invite anyone whose religion does not approve the practice.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/page.ne....rsess=1

[Begs]

Why he had to use a different car than anybody else?

His car is flown in ahead of his arrival.

[Axel]

Ah , the topic was actually Bush Motorcade in Tokyo you see.......

Strange, how these threads are turning...but we are back to Begs' topic by now.

Wish I could have handled the limo from Tokyo to here. airfreight is part of my biz. Maybe it would still be in customs, as used cars not allowed....  

Chonabot, I want to READ your posts, but your avatar positively detracts me, believe this is something we all can agree to, incl. ericshop, reading your "interests"

[Rolling Stone]

To stay on topic I saw the motorcade impressive yes but wasteful.

ericsshop agree with the first two posts don't let the small shit get to you lifes to short.  Next two to deep for this forum but see where your coming from.  Would love to have a beer and chat sometime would be interesting.  But not about politics or religion been my motto to keep those thoughts to myself for obvious reasons.

Axel are you in BKK I export to the US and have been trying to find an expat in your line to handle some air freight for me.  Not because of any prejudice to Thais's just seems they make the entire process complicated and secretive I can never get a straight answer.

And is anybody up on where these expats meet in the evenings?  I would like to meet people that I might be able to friendships with here.  I always seem to meet the guy's who is here for a week or month.  Nothing wrong with those guys would just be nice to have a few friends I could call once in a while out of the blue to have a drink or shoot a game of pool with.

[Axel]

To stay on topic I saw the motorcade impressive yes but wasteful.

Quite and a nuisance. Been to the airport lunchtime. Nearly pushed off when I tried to overtake a motorcade, consisting of buses marked "White House staff".

Anyway, correct myself, Putin as well ha a limo, Merc. and the Taipei China rep. came in a beige BMW.  

And I thought Clinton Plaza is closed!

[Butterfly]

[insert more made up history facts]

blah blah

[insert more insane facts]

I mean seriously if you don't understand what I said or don't have a clue as to the history of the whole thing fair enough but to try and belittle me is childish.  

And I still say I hate you both lefties and righties your idealogues out for yourselves and nothing else.  Keep the general masses dumb and fight over who gets to rule them, thats the ticket.

So what are you ? a NeoCon ? you didn't deny it so far.

Yeah, I don't understand any of your history BS, correct. Only another madman could understand any of it. Sorry to disappoint you.

[Butterfly]

Bitterfly- I invite you for a drink, and you go on to attack me? Wasn't looking to fight you as much as get a laugh at what a poor pathetic sob you are in real life. That has to be worth 80 baht. No need now, as you prove it time and time again in your postings.

Sorry I don't drink with imbecile but I wouldn't mind meeting you and say how "stupid" you are in your face, if that makes you feel better. I was replying to the "other" genius who was "losing" it because he couldn't have his ways with words. Sorry about the confusion.

[Butterfly]

To stay on topic I saw the motorcade impressive yes but wasteful.

Quite and a nuisance. Been to the airport lunchtime. Nearly pushed off when I tried to overtake a motorcade, consisting of buses marked "White House staff".

Anyway, correct myself, Putin as well ha a limo, Merc. and the Taipei China rep. came in a beige BMW.  

And I thought Clinton Plaza is closed!

All those leaders are on "ego" trips with their limo. The more nuisance, the better, and the greater self-importance