Do You Appreciate When Thai Restaurants "farangatize" Your Food?

[aussiechick]

I agree with Jingthing - do not assume I cannot eat hot and spicy! OK to ask but it is annoying when the assumption is made because I am"white". I learnt to eat Thai food in the South (Phuket) my Thai friends didn't give me any choice - eat what we eat or go hungry.

I do not agree that the wait staff believe that you want spicy, or if they do, the cook doesn't. I have been out with "white" friends and had good Thai but redo it with my Thai friends and it is totally different.

I was in Dublin not so long ago and my friend took me to a famous Thai restaurant where they have a drawing of chillis next to the menu list to donate hotness - 3 chillies being "extremely" hot and spicy. The staff actually kept coming over to ask if I really wanted the 3 chilli dish - if it had 1 chilli in it I would have been amazed!

[yabaaaa]

When they stop thinking Farangland is one country it would help, the Sun revolves around the world.

[Jingthing]

When they stop thinking Farangland is one country it would help, the Sun revolves around the world.

Good point. For example, my observations show a greater percentage of people from Anglo countries (UK, USA, Australia) enjoy spicy foods than Scandanavians.

[caf]

The problem is that most farangs demand "real" Thai food and then cry like babies when they get it and want a free replacement dish that they can stomach even though they had to have the real thing. Thai restaurant owners know this and tone it down so they don't have to give freebies to rich whinging farangs.

I do not believe that! Those of us that ask for the real deal do not send the food back even if we are crying and sweating buckets! Really, you are wrong about this. That is NOT the reason. I am not saying that never happens but frankly I have never witnessed that, ever, where someone explicitly asked for Thai style food and then sent it back. I agree that would be wrong to do if you asked for it that way. I am sure, however, that it may distress Thais to see farangs getting red and sweating from eating their food, but that is not the same thing as sending it back.

The point Ulysses is correctly making is that Thai restaurant owners adjust their meals to suit their farang clientele as a result of previous feedback they get from customers.

[caf]

When they stop thinking Farangland is one country it would help, the Sun revolves around the world.

Good point. For example, my observations show a greater percentage of people from Anglo countries (UK, USA, Australia) enjoy spicy foods than Scandanavians.

That comment is absolutely unbelievable and without any logic or foundation. There are for example expats here from non-english speaking countries who like spicy food. What nonsense you sometimes spout. Give some sources or examples, or think a little deeply before you jump in.

You may like spicy food and you are american, so you assume more english speaking countries like spicy food than france germany italy greece ?????

[TimeBandit2]

Well...is there a middle ground? Literally.

Phet = spicy. Got that. Certainly works!

Mai phet = not spicy. Got that.

But what's "in the middle"?

Phet Glang Glang

[lovelomsak]

It really bothers me when I have my tastebuds wanting a good thai dish and they bring be a bland for faramg dish. I usually pay and leave it sitting there and tell them I ordered thai I want thai. I also mention I willnot ome back. I then will simply try another restaurant.

Many thai dishes are terrible if not spiced right.

[Jingthing]

It really bothers me when I have my tastebuds wanting a good thai dish and they bring be a bland for faramg dish. I usually pay and leave it sitting there and tell them I ordered thai I want thai. I also mention I willnot ome back. I then will simply try another restaurant.

Many thai dishes are terrible if not spiced right.

That is so true!

I remember going out once to an excellent Thai restaurant in the US (yes the kind of place that would cook things properly if asked) but I was with a lady who was ill and didn't want any spices (bad restaurant choice). So we order a green curry with no spice. It was DISGUSTING. This from the same place where their regular green curry (they do it with squid stuffed with spiced minced pork, yummy) was among the best I have ever had anywhere including Thailand.

Edited November 12, 2009 by Jingthing

[klikster]

I think you missed an option. Actually the most courteous one.

I appreciate when they ask me how spicy I want my food. I usually say, "tammada khon Thai".

The next best option, IMO, would be some indication about whether or not the food is tailored for westerners.

Actually if you look how the poll is structured, that option would not be consistent with the other choices. Also, I find your suggestion a little obvious, who wouldn't appreciate that courtesy of being asked how you would like it? Of course, being asked and responding or calling out for your liking doesn't always actually result in getting what you asked for. In other words, sometimes restaurants even when they ask and you tell them STILL make a farang adjustment.

Then perhaps your poll is flawed or should be retitled?

I agree an extreme reaction is not called for. I can't imagine anyone saying that it is (again, how obvious).

That is a different thing than complaining when you explicitly ask for for something and you don't get it. In those cases you are totally justified in sending back the food. That is not the same thing as "get angry, fight, scream or otherwise throw a childish tantrum", now is it?

"I come out swinging if they do it .."

You tell me.

[Jingthing]

OK, some people do react in an extreme way. So what? Of course, they are a small minority. Obviously. I think you are just looking for a pointless argument about nothing. Change the name of the poll? I don't see any reason for that at all. Of course my poll is flawed. Everything ever created by humans is flawed! Again, OBVIOUS. Thanks for sharing. I get the feeling some of you just don't like my polls and make a sport of attacking just for the sake of attacking. My response: if you don't like my polls, make some yourself.

Edited November 13, 2009 by Jingthing

[caf]

I think you missed an option. Actually the most courteous one.

I appreciate when they ask me how spicy I want my food. I usually say, "tammada khon Thai".

The next best option, IMO, would be some indication about whether or not the food is tailored for western

Actually if you look how the poll is structured, that option would not be consistent with the other choices. Also, I find your suggestion a little obvious, who wouldn't appreciate that courtesy of being asked how you would like it? Of course, being asked and responding or calling out for your liking doesn't always actually result in getting what you asked for. In other words, sometimes restaurants even when they ask and you tell them STILL make a farang adjustment.

Then perhaps your poll is flawed or should be retitled?

I agree an extreme reaction is not called for. I can't imagine anyone saying that it is (again, how obvious).

That is a different thing than complaining when you explicitly ask for for something and you don't get it. In those cases you are totally justified in sending back the food. That is not the same thing as "get angry, fight, scream or otherwise throw a childish tantrum", now is it?

"I come out swinging if they do it .."

You tell me.

Jingthing, answer some of the points that have been made. As a pollster you owe it to readers to consider their opinions without bias.

[LooseCannon]

"Do You Appreciate When Thai Restaurants "farangatize" Your Food?, Less spicy, flavor change, simply based on you being a farang"

This is mostly directed at Jingthing (others are welcome to comment)....

A number of posters have made the point that if you eat at restaurants in 'tourist areas' you will receive a bastardized version of the dish & when dining in areas where there is little exposure to farang you will receive the genuine article. My experience when eating at restaurants out of the 'tourist areas' is that there is no compromise, the dishes served are the standard recipe as served to the Thai diners. Of course, this is not 100% of the time, on the rare occasion there is a token attempt to modify but in all reality the dishes are pretty dam_n close to the original.

This is one point that I don't believe you have made any comment on - where are these restaurants that you have a problem with located?

[caf]

"Do You Appreciate When Thai Restaurants "farangatize" Your Food?, Less spicy, flavor change, simply based on you being a farang"

This is mostly directed at Jingthing (others are welcome to comment)....

A number of posters have made the point that if you eat at restaurants in 'tourist areas' you will receive a bastardized version of the dish & when dining in areas where there is little exposure to farang you will receive the genuine article. My experience when eating at restaurants out of the 'tourist areas' is that there is no compromise, the dishes served are the standard recipe as served to the Thai diners. Of course, this is not 100% of the time, on the rare occasion there is a token attempt to modify but in all reality the dishes are pretty dam_n close to the original.

This is one point that I don't believe you have made any comment on - where are these restaurants that you have a problem with located?

I look forward to his reply too.

The better restaurants ask how spicy you like it. That does not cause offense. It is merely being courteous and customer oriented.

[Jingthing]

This is one point that I don't believe you have made any comment on - where are these restaurants that you have a problem with located?

I live in Pattaya. Of course I seek out the more local places here. The farangatization has happened at all kinds of places. Obviously the tourist trap places (which I mostly avoid) and also local places where the customers are mostly Thai. I don't doubt things are different in less touristy cities. However, most expats live in the Bangkok area, the Pattaya area, the Chiang Mai area, and the Phuket area. All big tourist destinations. Again, the poll is NOT about how often this happens to you. It is SPECIFICALLY about whether you appreciate unasked for farangatization WHEN it does happen. I have already addressed that sometimes when you call out your spice level (either when being asked your preference or not) you STILL get farangatized food. It happened to me again today on a phet phet soup order which came (interestingly just like the OP restaurant example) with overwhelming CITRUS taste and very little chile and spices.

The subjects about how often this happens to you, how often you are asked your preference, how often you call out your preference and get it or don't get it, whether you appreciate being asked your preference , and the variances in the localities as a variable, could all be SEPARATE poll topics. Knock yourself out and start them, we are all waiting in anticipation . This poll is clearly defined already. It may have a focus too narrow for your liking, but it is crystal clear what it is about and what it is NOT about. It was the topic that interested me enough to start this poll. Those others don't interest me. One poll can't be all things to all people.

Edited November 14, 2009 by bonobo

[DP25]

Heck, I can read Thai and can quite easily order from a menu with no English on it at all in a restaurant no tourist ever go, and still they tone down the food sometimes.

[Birdman]

This is one point that I don't believe you have made any comment on - where are these restaurants that you have a problem with located?

I live in Pattaya. ............

That says it all, my friend. And I am wondering WHY?? I suggest, you make an extended tour (6 months) around Thailand.

[Jingthing]

This is one point that I don't believe you have made any comment on - where are these restaurants that you have a problem with located?

I live in Pattaya. ............

That says it all, my friend. And I am wondering WHY?? I suggest, you make an extended tour (6 months) around Thailand.

Perhaps I need to remind people what this thread was supposed to be about:

Do you appreciate when Thai restaurants "farangatize" your food?

The concept is that some Thai restaurants are doing this with probably mostly good intentions. However, as the results show, at least in this sample, most of us do NOT appreciate the gesture. To me, it is an interesting human situation and an example of lack of understanding and sophistication on the part of the Thais doing this.

What is not interesting to me is Pattaya bashing. Not playing that game.

Edited November 13, 2009 by Jingthing

[Birdman]

This is one point that I don't believe you have made any comment on - where are these restaurants that you have a problem with located?

I live in Pattaya. ............

That says it all, my friend. And I am wondering WHY?? I suggest, you make an extended tour (6 months) around Thailand.

Perhaps I need to remind people what this thread was supposed to be about:

Do you appreciate when Thai restaurants "farangatize" your food?

The concept is that some Thai restaurants are doing this with probably mostly good intentions. However, as the results show, at least in this sample, most of us do NOT appreciate the gesture. To me, it is an interesting human situation and an example of lack of understanding and sophistication on the part of the Thais doing this.

What is not interesting to me is Pattaya bashing. Not playing that game.

JT, have you ever been to another place like PTY or BKK?

[Khruumaiyai]

This is one point that I don't believe you have made any comment on - where are these restaurants that you have a problem with located?

I live in Pattaya. ............

That says it all, my friend. And I am wondering WHY?? I suggest, you make an extended tour (6 months) around Thailand.

Perhaps I need to remind people what this thread was supposed to be about:

Do you appreciate when Thai restaurants "farangatize" your food?

The concept is that some Thai restaurants are doing this with probably mostly good intentions. However, as the results show, at least in this sample, most of us do NOT appreciate the gesture. To me, it is an interesting human situation and an example of lack of understanding and sophistication on the part of the Thais doing this.

That's an interesting comment - my experience has been that almost all Thai restaurants do this with entirely good intentions. Whenever I've taken my young children into Thai restaurants, the staff generally fall over themselves to be helpful and cook food the kids can eat. Having just spent a few months in the UK, I'm realising that response is not universal - so I won't take it for granted.

Do I appreciate Thai restaurants farangatizing my food? I appreciate their concern.

[Jingthing]

JT, have you ever been to another place like PTY or BKK?

Of course.

[Jingthing]

Do I appreciate Thai restaurants farangatizing my food? I appreciate their concern.

Why? You are at a restaurant. You are not paying for concern. You are paying for food. Let's get extreme here into an example of racial stereotyping. In the US, African Americans are stereotyped as being very fond of eating watermelons. Imagine an African-American visiting a restaurant in a rural all white community ordering a fruit plate (which for their usual customers consists of a medley of cantaloupe, bananas, watermelon, and grapes). The unsophisticated owners "concerned" to please their minority customer, instead serves him a plate of only watermelon. That's not what he ordered and he notices locals at the next table ordered the same thing and got something different. Do you think he should appreciate that? Why the appreciation for presumptions (quite often totally false) based merely on ethnicity? I think we can try to understand the motivations and be tolerant of the situation while still trying to get what we actually want, but the appreciation part, I feel it goes too far.

Edited November 13, 2009 by Jingthing

[SeanMoran]

Perhaps I need to remind people what this thread was supposed to be about:

Do you appreciate when Thai restaurants "farangatize" your food?

I voted YES with the minority, although the mention of fried chicken and watermelon is a classic that I'd never considered, however it was spot on. I was lucky enough to start out in a fairly small village with no buses running after 6pm, and the first restaurant I found after a walk up the road turned out to be the one I made an habit of eating at almost every night for the next few months.

Dinner #1 I didn't know how to communicate a single thing and so all I could ask for was 'food', basically. The waiter who I now consider a good friend turned on the whole farang treatment, and pointed me to the special table with the special chair and then out came all the special fried chicken and watermelon and all kinds of dishes with no chilli. I could see I was gonna have to learn how to order something less grandiose if I ever went back.

Next night I managed to acquire a nice little table out in the beer garden and a plain bowl of khao phat something, and all that was modified was the dosage of chilli. Over that month the chef was so aware of what I could adjust to gradually that I needed to say nothing, but she DID make the effort to start to add more spices purposely, so that I had the chance to adjust to it. I hope that next month, that same raan ahaan is still open and I might get the same sort of carefully planned fare to adjust gradually once again to a different level of spice and flavour, but hopefully they can skip the vip service with the fried chicken and watermelon this time.

[chiangdan]

Try eating in thai restaurants back in your own country the food there is no where near like the authentic thai food you get here. All made for farang taste and people say they like thai food without having really tried it. Try eating in the street cafe's instead of the big retuarants catering for farangs. My wife makes the best thai food anyway truely authentic.

[caf]

This is one point that I don't believe you have made any comment on - where are these restaurants that you have a problem with located?

I live in Pattaya. Of course I seek out the more local places here. The farangatization has happened at all kinds of places. Obviously the tourist trap places (which I mostly avoid) and also local places where the customers are mostly Thai. I don't doubt things are different in less touristy cities. However, most expats live in the Bangkok area, the Pattaya area, the Chiang Mai area, and the Phuket area. All big tourist destinations. Again, the poll is NOT about how often this happens to you. It is SPECIFICALLY about whether you appreciate unasked for farangatization WHEN it does happen. I have already addressed that sometimes when you call out your spice level (either when being asked your preference or not) you STILL get farangatized food. It happened to me again today on a phet phet soup order which came (interestingly just like the OP restaurant example) with overwhelming CITRUS taste and very little chile and spices.

The subjects about how often this happens to you, how often you are asked your preference, how often you call out your preference and get it or don't get it, whether you appreciate being asked your preference , and the variances in the localities as a variable, could all be SEPARATE poll topics. Knock yourself out and start them, we are all waiting in anticipation . This poll is clearly defined already. It may have a focus too narrow for your liking, but it is crystal clear what it is about and what it is NOT about. It was the topic that interested me enough to start this poll. Those others don't interest me. One poll can't be all things to all people, got it?

I think your last two words sum it up.

Yes, I think we have "got it?", as you rather dictatorially put it.

What you do not seem to get and certainly do not like is when posters comment on your opinions.

You can not expect everyone to agree with you., Give people a break, they do not just argue for the sake of arguing as you pompously claim.

[wintermute]

Do you think he should appreciate that? Why the appreciation for presumptions (quite often totally false) based merely on ethnicity? I think we can try to understand the motivations and be tolerant of the situation while still trying to get what we actually want, but the appreciation part, I feel it goes too far.

The reasons have already been stated already. If Thai food is served at normal level of spicy everytime you'll have farang whining and throwing self entitled tantrums in every tourist cafe or restaurant in Thailand. A friend of mine owns a guesthouse and he says that besides a few individuals with a diverse palate the vast majority of farang who visit want the watered down version.

[LooseCannon]

This is one point that I don't believe you have made any comment on - where are these restaurants that you have a problem with located?

I live in Pattaya. Of course I seek out the more local places here. The farangatization has happened at all kinds of places. Obviously the tourist trap places (which I mostly avoid) and also local places where the customers are mostly Thai. I don't doubt things are different in less touristy cities. However, most expats live in the Bangkok area, the Pattaya area, the Chiang Mai area, and the Phuket area. All big tourist destinations. Again, the poll is NOT about how often this happens to you. It is SPECIFICALLY about whether you appreciate unasked for farangatization WHEN it does happen. I have already addressed that sometimes when you call out your spice level (either when being asked your preference or not) you STILL get farangatized food. It happened to me again today on a phet phet soup order which came (interestingly just like the OP restaurant example) with overwhelming CITRUS taste and very little chile and spices.

The subjects about how often this happens to you, how often you are asked your preference, how often you call out your preference and get it or don't get it, whether you appreciate being asked your preference , and the variances in the localities as a variable, could all be SEPARATE poll topics. Knock yourself out and start them, we are all waiting in anticipation . This poll is clearly defined already. It may have a focus too narrow for your liking, but it is crystal clear what it is about and what it is NOT about. It was the topic that interested me enough to start this poll. Those others don't interest me. One poll can't be all things to all people, got it?

You started a topic with a poll & then proceeded to speculate & offer opinion as to why this practice of "farangatizing" food occurs.

If this was just about 'the poll' the first 3 lines of your original post would be all that was required.

But you chose to speculate & provide an example to illustrate your point of view, which in my opinion, opens the whole topic up for discussion. From your subsequent posts you seem quite happy for the discussion to diverge away from the specifics of the 'poll'.

You have offered your opinion as to why this 'farangatizing' occurs, I am offering an alternate opinion.

I actually agree with this statement of yours "...I truly believe this is done to help us out..." but taking it further I believe that there is a correlation between this 'being helpful' sentiment & geographical location (which I think you agree with?).

If you are interested in finding a solution to this problem, or at least minimize it occurring, it is necessary to recognize that there may be flaws in the way you are selecting suitable places to eat.

Here are a few ideas to think about (they may or may not be applicable)...

- be sufficiently fluent in Thai to unambiguously articulate your requirements.This may require more than a quick "chawp pet mahk mahk".

- redefine what you consider 'tourist' & 'non-tourist'. I suggest that almost every eating place in Pattaya has been influenced by the farang presence, either directly or indirectly. This also applies to Phuket, Koh Samui etc.

- don't expect every restaurant to be good (irregardless of whether they 'farangatize'). The percentage of crap/average/good restaurants is not much different to any other country. The reason the meal is bland maybe because the cook is crap & not because it has been modified for you the farang.

- appearances are no indication of food quality. The best seafood restaurant I have ever eaten in was down a back street in Bangkok & looked like shit from the outside.The only reason I went there (& other great eating places) was because of a Thai friend who was a bit of a gourmand. Find a local in the know.

- stay away from air-conditioned restaurants.

One further thought - I think that the places in non tourist areas that do adapt meals for the farang palate only change the chili component & don't generally modify the spice content.

Relax mate - the world is not against you.

[philliphn]

If it is very hot/spicy. I can't eat it.

Edited November 14, 2009 by philliphn

[MrHammer]

When I buy food from street vendors and street restaurants, they usually ask 'peht dai mai'? If I say spicy, then it's spicy. Sometimes I even think they like to make it extra spicy to embarrass the farang if he has company. When I first got here I remember eating out with three Thai girls who were having a great time chuckling over me burning up from the som tam, then when they tasted it themselves they had to admit it was very spicy.

I will almost never eat Thai food in a tourist restaurant anyway, the worst you can get is in places like Kaosan. Thai food abroad is not even worth eating as they substitute the vegetables. Imo, Thai food does not get any better in a 'real' restaurant as the taste is all about fresh ingredients and the perfect ratio of ingredients. Those mama's on the street that have been making the same dish for 20 years, probably have it down by now!

But yeah, in touristy places they tone it down for sure and that's why I stick to western food which they can sometimes manage to cook decently (as long as it doesn't involve beef).

[imaneggspurt]

I dont have this problem, i tell them before iorder " pet mak ma "

[bonobo]

When in the touristy areas, I pretty much never order Thai.  But last night, after working out at Asoke, my friend and I had an hour to kill before attending a party, and she wanted Thai, so we went to a small food court on Soi 7.  What an unmitigated disaster.  Despite my friend being Thai, the food was so toned down as to be almost inedible.  Only with a healthy dollop of nam jin ba could I even get it down (even the local cat wouldn't touch the food.)  And the price was significantly higher than I would pay for a much better and larger meal elsewhere.

Where I normally eat, my food is never toned down.  Part of it may be because I am a known fixture, and when first brought there, my friends assured the staff that I even eat spicier than they eat. But even in places I don't frequent, the food is the same.

In Thailand, I guess I don't mind them in tourist areas toning it down with the caveat that I can ask and receive spicier fare.  What does bug me, though, is that in the US, I almost can never get the food fixed normally.  Even when I ask, it comes out barely spicy.  There is only one chef I have found in San Diego who will make authentic food for me, and oddly enough, this is at a very non-tradition nouveau-Thai (and expensive) restaurant.