Land Transportation Bureau Says I Need A New Engine To Transfer Title?

[submaniac]

So my uncle forced my cousin to sell me his motorcycle. It's a 1989 FZR 400. It's actually a nice bike. Uncle had the entire bike painted. Not because it needed it. But because he wanted the bike not to be rideable so my cousin would not take it for a spin.

Anyways, the bike in his been in his possession for nearly two years. For nearly two years I have always asked the same question: "Is the green book good". "Yes" was his response. I think you know where I am going with this. So finally, after nearly two years, he goes to Land Transportation Bureau to change title. They wouldn't allow a title change. Because the engine number was supposedly previously destroyed according to them. Confused? Yeah. Me too. This is my understanding of the situation (because neither my cousin or Uncle really explained it clearly to me.) It appears that someone, a long time ago, bought an FZR 400 legitimately, and with a book. That person, then wrecked the FZR 400. Another person (the seller to my cousin) then bought the legitimate green book, and imported another FZR 400, then changed the numbers on the bike frame and engine to match the green book. Then my cousin goes to change the title. And the land transport bureau says that the engine was registered as destroyed. The frame VIN's, apparently, are OK to them. They say that another engine has to be imported, that the invoice and payment of taxes have to be brought to them, and they will change the engine number and allow the ownership.

Getting a new engine shipped I guess won't be a problem really. While it is hard to find in Thailand, FZR 600's were very popular in the states and there are a bunch of parts still available (and yes the 600 cc will swap in). Anyways, this entire thing seems weird to me. I have not heard of this before. Anyone know what to make of it?

And, since I know you guys are curious. Here is a picture of the bike. I already bought all the parts to convert it to an R1 (like tank, headlights, fairing, rear subframe, seats...EVERYTHING):

[Travelmate]

since it's an Uncle of yours. Ask for the money back.

[submaniac]

Actually, I don't think that would be a big deal. It's not the money, it's that I want more than a 150cc bike. By the way, I bought the FZR for 30,000 baht off my cousin. I really don't want the money back. I want a legit bike.

P.S. not to mention that I have a whole buncha R1 parts that I would have to get rid of if I got rid of the bike.

Edited November 14, 2009 by submaniac

[Travelmate]

Then quit complaining and get on with the project!

[thaicbr]

Whats the problem its got a green book in ya uncles name so you can get tax. Its legit for Thailand. just get ya tax at a different LTO. eASY

[submaniac]

Title is not in uncle's name. It is in the guy who owned the bike before my cousin's name. I still don't get it, because they never had a problem paying the taxes and getting that tax sticker thingy.

[thaicbr]

As long as its in someones name. you can get that tax sticker thingy. I would also try another transport office. You can get tax sticker thing's from any transport office. I'm sure your uncle knows a tax sticker thingy sorter (normally the insurance guy)

[saorsa]

some tea money could maybe fix things.

[ScubaBuddha]

I have just been through a similar situation with my 1993 CBR400RR. Some of my issues are very similar to yours, some aren't, but may be issues for you later on. The problem is these are gray bikes, never legally sold in Thailand. When I tried to change name/provence, I went to multiple LTD's, using multiple fixers, and every time I get a different issue put in front of me, the end result of which was a simple, "can not anymore." No amount of money could fix the problem. Believe me, I asked. A major annoyance is also the fact that they won't give you a laundry list of issues to get the bike properly registered, they only present to you the first issue, then quite happily send you on your wild goose chase to solve it. Untold time and money later, you come back thinking issue is solved, and they hand you another. This problem is probably the first of many you will have with this bike.

Issues I encountered:

1) Lack of import tax shown on page 18. At first they wanted something like 14k baht in import tax, then a month later that was off the table and I had no way to solve this problem. (This is a new thing they are requiring in many places now due to big bike manufactures telling Thailand that, if they want to move their factories here and sell new bikes here, they want the rego rules for the old gray bikes strictly unforced, and the grey bike competition phased out. Supposedly there are some exemptions for bikes over 12 years old, but I don't think this is your problem anyway, at least not yet.)

2)They believe it's a bent book, previously belonging to a Honda Dream or something and want to order the books original "card" which will possibly show a different bike,

3) The engine number doesn't match up properly with the frame number. (This was actually the biggest issue for the LTD)

4) The number of cylinders in the book is wrong. (No LTD ever noticed or mentioned this)

5) The previous owner is a foreigner, their visa has expired. (Issue at first, then not?)

The LTD finally told me that since the engine was not original to the frame, that my next step was to take the bike to the police and have them "check it." Yeah right. I'm not big on donations to the BIB so I declined this option.

You didn't mention are you and the other players in this saga Thai or farang or what province you are in? Generally sorting rego issues is harder for farang, and generally easier if you are away from tourist or city centers. However, I agree with thaicbr 100%. Forget about putting the bike in your name. I know that's not the answer you are looking for, but I'm telling you that will be an exercise in futility, unless you enjoy spending insane amounts of time and money only to be let down in the end. And buying and importing a whole new engine just to get it to match the book? I can't see that being practical, even in an entirely impractical place as Thailand. It's the book that needs to change, not the engine. There are some success stories of people that were able to do this, but not without lots of time money, and good connections. But with the new rule changes, I'm not so sure you can do it anymore.

As previously mentioned, as of now the tax discs can still be purchased when the book is in another persons name. Just be sure to keep a copy of the book with the bike along with a bill of sale of some kind (hopefully you have from the guy's whos name is in the book.) and if very challenged by the BIB, which you won't be unless there is one of the "crackdowns" Thailand is so famous for, just tell them you are currently trying to get it properly registered. BIB seem to only want drivers license, license plates, and task discs, and brain buckets. You lose very little by not having the book in your name. And if your concerned about insurance paying out on a bike that is not legally in your name, remember that in Thailand it's the vehicles that are insured, not the people like it may be back home.

And what do you mean by "Uncle had the entire bike painted. Not because it needed it. But because he wanted the bike not to be rideable so my cousin would not take it for a spin" How does painting a bike make it not ride-able? Which reminds me, when you change the color of a bike, which you are likely to do when you put your R1 mods on, you need to change it in the book as well.

BTW, I love the picture because it looks like you posed the bike with all the crap around/behind it as if to say emphasis it's in Thailand. Good stuff

Edited November 14, 2009 by Scubabuddha

[JimsKnight]

I got my CBR 400 in my name with passport number as ID ref and when it came to re-taxing it this year no problems at all.

To get the book in my name took 5,000 baht and five days.

The reason for the cash was not because the books dodgy but because you'd be waiting up to 30 days+++ if you're registering it via the amphur in a provincial area. (the books always have to go through bangkok and back via the province).

You'd be without green book and the quicker you get your book back the better.

The engine was original so this why it went well for me.

Get an engine ordered and good luck with your project.

[BigBikeBKK]

Actually, I don't think that would be a big deal. It's not the money, it's that I want more than a 150cc bike. By the way, I bought the FZR for 30,000 baht off my cousin. I really don't want the money back. I want a legit bike.

Bah, if you only paid 30,000 Baht for it and want to avoid further expense and headaches, just cut your losses, sell it and put the money towards an R1 since you already have all those R1 parts lying about. There are quite a few used R1's available for sale at the moment at reasonable prices. The new R1's a bit pricey at 880,000 Baht though.

[LivinLOS]

My 2c is if its a 30k bike just ride it and keep retaxing it under the old name..

No laws broken and a cheap serviceable machine that you can sell (just pass the book on) if you want without a loss.

I got my CBR 400 in my name with passport number as ID ref and when it came to re-taxing it this year no problems at all.

To get the book in my name took 5,000 baht and five days.

The reason for the cash was not because the books dodgy but because you'd be waiting up to 30 days+++ if you're registering it via the amphur in a provincial area. (the books always have to go through bangkok and back via the province).

You'd be without green book and the quicker you get your book back the better.

The engine was original so this why it went well for me.

Get an engine ordered and good luck with your project.

Nope.. Books done locally in the province..

[JSixpack]

Getting a new engine shipped I guess won't be a problem really.

You may be lucky enough to find a used engine already imported w/ the proper paperwork and trade for it. I've seen that done, for a considerable savings.