Visa Refused

[bkk_mike]

Ok - a wedding doesn't guarantee a settlement visa, but only if immigration think the wedding is a sham.

A marriage does, pretty much, guarantee a settlement visa. (assuming you're not wanted by Interpol or something, or are under some sort of criminal indictment). This is because the UK has signed up to EU human rights laws that state that married couples have the right to live together.

There is a reason why the UK government is the one that's taken to European court of Human Rights more than any other.

I've said this elsewhere - the new visa rules on marriage will probably be taken to the court of Human Rights at some point as they're inconsistent in how they're applied. (Like why does marriage in an Anglican church not require payment of the marriage visa fee and immigration approval, where marriage in a Presbyterian church does. - Human Rights basis - maybe if I said Church of England, and Church of Scotland - means that the law is anti-Scot. Or you could treat it as anti-Jewish, or ant-Catholic, or anti-Muslim, etc.).

And when I say 6 months is a reasonable time. - I mean that it's long enough to not be deemed an arranged marriage. Lots of cases where the spouse is from Pakistan/Bangladesh/parts of India where the couple don't meet until the wedding day.

[gburns57au]

To Mr Burns a man it would seem whose glass is always half empty.  Glad to see you eventually replaced the reading glasses for a pair which actually work. Can you let me know where I can obtain a pair in order that I can forward some to  the British embassy. Think they need some also. As for my marriage, I can assure you that I am old enough and more importantly wise enough. Further I am also man enough to take your comments on board.

Now there you go making personal attacks on my character and my eyesight....Actually my glass is never half empty....either full or empty thanks (I drink quite quickly...lol) ...I never made comment on your age or whether you were wise enough to marry or not and ok I didnt understand the UK laws so well...I was working from your original post and the replies you quoted, the bit about the standard visit visa.

But you have to agree that they have denied you because of more than your refusal to heed their advice or because of the law change. I could sit here all day and say "Gee mate, feel really sorry for you, Those b*****ds at Immigration or where ever have done you a bad deal" But that is detracting from the other reasons why you were denied. It may just be that it is one of these things that actually got you denied. And by discussing this in open forum it may help others to avoid what has happened to you and may also assist you in making sure any future applications you make go smoothly.

I certainly dont wish you anything other than happiness for the future, But lets also get down to the nitty gritty of why you were denied. Did your partner in her original visit visa application say anything about not getting married while she was away, it seems she told them she had very strong reasons to return. You know, it may be nothing you have done but something your partner has unwittingly done in her application to go to the UK in the first place or a combination of both. We could sit here and cry in our beers or go and trash somewhere out of frustration but that doesnt help anyone. Dissect and inspect everything....then work out how to change it so that it doesnt happen again.

Edited April 13, 2005 by gburns57au

[gburns57au]

Ok - a wedding doesn't guarantee a settlement visa, but only if immigration think the wedding is a sham.

A marriage does, pretty much, guarantee a settlement visa. (assuming you're not wanted by Interpol or something, or are under some sort of criminal indictment). This is because the UK has signed up to EU human rights laws that state that married couples have the right to live together.

There is a reason why the UK government is the one that's taken to European court of Human Rights more than any other.

I've said this elsewhere - the new visa rules on marriage will probably be taken to the court of Human Rights at some point as they're inconsistent in how they're applied. (Like why does marriage in an Anglican church not require payment of the marriage visa fee and immigration approval, where marriage in a Presbyterian church does. - Human Rights basis - maybe if I said Church of England, and Church of Scotland - means that the law is anti-Scot. Or you could treat it as anti-Jewish, or ant-Catholic, or anti-Muslim, etc.).

And when I say 6 months is a reasonable time. - I mean that it's long enough to not be deemed an arranged marriage. Lots of cases where the spouse is from Pakistan/Bangladesh/parts of India where the couple don't meet until the wedding day.

I agree that married couples do have the right to live together....but where they can live is open to debate.

Immigration laws have had to have been tightened......why?????

Because of all the people that have abused the system.....Dont blame immigration or the government.

What about the rights of the Brits who have seen jobs taken by people who have gained residency by deception, the tax payers whose own rights are being eroded because of the heavier burden on the public purse because of people who have gained residency by deception.

People who abuse systems, whether it is the tax system, immigration, insurance etc.....these are the people to blame for increasing rates, laws and fees. When someone jumps up and defends his rights...it is usually at the expense of someone elses rights.

[GU22]

A marriage does, pretty much, guarantee a settlement visa. (assuming you're not wanted by Interpol or something, or are under some sort of criminal indictment). This is because the UK has signed up to EU human rights laws that state that married couples have the right to live together.

Wrong, marriage does not guarantee a settlement visa, even if the embassy are satisfied that the marriage is genuine then you still have to satisfy the financial and accomodation requirements. As for the Human Rights Act and the right to family life, no one at any stage has said that Vulture and his wife cannot live together, just that she can't come to settle in the UK.

Vulture, it seems that I mis-read your original post, youo say " I never asked the embassy if we could marry. I asked immigration and they said yes." And marry you did. Then, your arrogance assumed that you could force the embassy to grant you what you wanted. Well, you couldn't. Now that you haven't got your way, your face has gone red, you're stamping your foot and blaming everybody except the person who is really to blame for the mess you are now in. That person is you.

Proper Pre Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

It does also seem, as has been mentioned, that there is more to this refusal than you are telling, like was your now wife conducting business on a tourist visa?

[Richard W]

Might the Wireless Road mob (or some of them) be deliberately acting as recruiting agents for a foreign intelligence agency or something similar?

[Rinrada]

"I note that you returned to the UK on 10th December on the same six month visit visa and then got married on the 14th February 2005, Under the terms of the standard visit visa, you are not permitted to get married in the UK and you are unable to satisfactorily explain why you went ahead with the wedding despite being informed by the visa section in Bangkok that this was not permitted and that this action could jeopardise your chance of obtaining further entry clearance in the future. I am satisfied that you failed to observe the conditions attached to a previous grant of leave to enter.................etc.

Under the terms of the standard visit visa, you are not permitted to get married in the UK

O Yes..... You are/were......

[samran]

O Yes..... You are/were......

Oh no you're not!

Oh yes we were!

Oh No Your're Not!!

Oh Yes We Were!!

OH NO YOU'RE NOT!!!

OH YES WE WERE!!!

Ah….you Poms think of everything. You even came up with an immigration related Panto! And it’s not even Christmas.

[Vulture]

Samran

No, its a new year panto

[samran]

Samran

No, its a new year panto

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well then, happy new year!

[Dragonman]

GU22. In the first pararaph of the Embassy's letter they stated he was not permitted to get married. This would be a "Human Rights" matter as he was trying to coerce Vulture into not marrying.There is a fine for any frivolous non-legal objection to someone getting married in UK.(Just Cause) There was no law in force at the time and it was extremely stupid of him to put this in writing. I personally would take him to task,with a copy of the letter to my MP. But then I don't have to take my wife to the UK again, being glad to leave.

Whatever one's thoughts are on immigration in UK,and mine are extensive. Thais, Philippines,etc have always had a greater difficulty obtaining visas than former Commonwealth immigrants. They seem to just be too attractive A fact which has even previously been discussed in Paliament!

[p_brownstone]

Maybe we should all realise that "losing face" is not a uniquely Thai problem / attitude.

It could well be that whoever it was in the British Embassy who wrote the original note warning you that you were not allowed to get married during your girlfriends' visit simply got pee'd off when confronted with your rather smug fait acompli and decided to make life difficult for you in revenge.

Yes, his original opinion may very well be wrong in Law, as others have pointed out, but it will be a long process (I guess) before you can prove that and get official blessing for your marriage.

It's never wise to provoke a confrontation or battle of wills with someone with the power to cause you problems - Thai or Farang.

Patrick

[GU22]

GU22. In the first paragraph of the Embassy's letter they stated he was not permitted to get married. This would be a "Human Rights" matter as he was trying to coerce Vulture into not marrying.

No-one at any stage said that Vulture could not marry. What was said was that it was not permitted for his now wife to marry in the UK as it violated the terms of her visa. They could easily have married in Thailand and then applied for settlement.

Any sensible person would have queried this with the embassy and got a definitive answer before actually marrying. One wonders what the rush was for, and why Vulture did not do this. I suspect arrogance of the "No petty official is going to tell me what I can and cannot do. I pay his wages!" sort.

Edited April 18, 2005 by GU22

[Dragonman]

The idea of marriage under a free society means that you are able to marry who and where you want to! Unless there is a reason under legitimate law. I agree it does not mean you will get a visa. But the marriage bit is sacred. I do not agree with Government intervention,there are other ways of stemming the bogus marriages in the UK which are primarily Commonwealth and former Commonwealth.

With regard to the "no petty offical" etc. sort, why not say this,it is true in many circumstances. It is purely a job, and there are surely guidelines in the Embassy which are vetted by a lawyer, as the guidelines I vetted in numerous Departments before I'd had enough.

[Vulture]

Just thought I would bring you up to date with this old thread.

My wife has now been granted her settlement visa and so I am very obviously very pleased.

This was attained through the representations that were made in respect of her refused application. As a consequence, it is apparent that the visa officer accepted the legitimacy of our marriage.

I must admit that there existed a degree of face-saving by both the visa officer and entry clearance manger. The letter that my wife received from the embassy made no reference to their inability to properly construe the law, but merely said that it was now appropriate for the visa to be issued.

I do believe that if I had accepted the advice of some members that I should not rock the boat, my wife would not now have her visa.

Anyway, we're now as happy as Larry.

Vulture.

ps. Thanks for your many efforts, Scouse. Good luck with your new immigration advice business. If you need any testimonials just give me the nod.

[Totster]

Just thought I would bring you up to date with this old thread.

My wife has now been granted her settlement visa and so I am very obviously very pleased.

This was attained through the representations that were made in respect of her refused application. As a consequence, it is apparent that the visa officer accepted the legitimacy of our marriage.

I must admit that there existed a degree of face-saving by both the visa officer and entry clearance manger. The letter that my wife received from the embassy made no reference to their inability to properly construe the law, but merely said that it was now appropriate for the visa to be issued.

I do believe that if I had accepted the advice of some members that I should not rock the boat, my wife would not now have her visa.

Anyway, we're now as happy as Larry.

Vulture.

ps. Thanks for your many efforts, Scouse. Good luck with your new immigration advice business. If you need any testimonials just give me the nod. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm glad there has been a happy outcome... but was there really any doubt that it would not sort itself out in the end..?

it's been an interesting read this thread..

totster

[cuddleypete]

hi

i would like to say how sorry you were at the embassy

wish you and your wife all the best for the future

i know what you are feel ing getting a NO

all the best pete and wife

[gerrryuk]

Just thought I would bring you up to date with this old thread.

My wife has now been granted her settlement visa and so I am very obviously very pleased.

.................... believe that if I had accepted the advice of some members that I should not rock the boat, my wife would not now have her visa.

ps. Thanks for your many efforts, Scouse. Good luck with your new immigration advice business. If you need any testimonials just give me the nod. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Congratulations, I hope things go well, you just need to get her on the plane now........ My wife has been here for 4 days and is still adjusting, but think adaption and change is now vital for your future happiness. Good luck ..........

[Rj 81]

Well done Vulture mate, I just read this thread for the first time and sounds like you was right all along. Notice none of the player haters have showed up this time

Best of luck!!

Rj

[the scouser]

To celebrate Vulture's wife's success, we held the Thaivisa Liverpool piss-up party on Weds. evening. A good evening was had by all, nicely rounded off with a ruby at the local Bangla restaurant.

Vulture should learn to drink properly, though.

Scouse.

[Rj 81]

To celebrate Vulture's wife's success, we held the Thaivisa Liverpool piss-up party on Weds. evening. A good evening was had by all, nicely rounded off with a ruby at the local Bangla restaurant.

Vulture should learn to drink properly, though.

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here here!!

When G/f gets visa maybe we could hold a Manchester/Liverpool Thaivisa piss up party!!

We could hold it on neutral ground, say, Warrington!!

Rj

[the scouser]

I'm willing to go to Manchester if it means free beer!

Scouse.

[GU22]

....... sounds like you was right all along. Notice none of the player haters have showed up this time......

I am of course glad that Vultures wife has finally got her visa, but still maintain that if Vulture had followed the advice originally given by the embassy, or at least got a definite correction to that advice from them before marrying, then his wife would have got her visa 4 months ago.

Vulture, your wife has here visa now, so I wish you both all the best for the future.

[Rj 81]

I'm willing to go to Manchester if it means free beer!

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll buy you a pint rkid! I owe you one, or two, or three, or four..........

[Vulture]

Thank you for the congrats above. Much appreciated.

My wife arrives in UK on Friday.

Not so long ago a famous chap coined the phrase 'a man has to know his limitations.'

How true, as we all have them and has been perfectly visible regarding the events on this thread !

Just one of mine for example is not being able to drink for England or indeed probably the 100 yard radius of my house. I have previously learned via the football team that I support that its the taking part that really counts. However for those of you who have drinking abilities you will no doubt be very welcome in Scouse land (a true champions league).

Since my wifes Visa refusal in April my particular circumstances meant that I was able to visit her in Thailand a further three times. It must be very difficult for those not so lucky and I sympathise with them. However to do this I had to put part of my business on hold and so have had to carry the financial burden because of incompetence on Wireless Road.

What is of further annoyance is the fact that :-

a) No apology has been received for getting it wrong.

Indeed no one in the civil service has admitted they misinterpreted the law (the closest being UK visa enquiries saying, er, ok in a given scenario then .... such and such).

c) Even my complaint direct to UK visas at FCO has never been acknowledged or replied to.

d) The children at the Embassy obviously tried to have their last little niggle (but we had been warned this may happen). Ok, so my wife got the standard print off letter which said please bring your passport to the embassy between the hours of. She presented herself at 9.10am one morning and was the last person of the day in there late afternoon when the passport was handed back.

GU22, I thank you for your good wishes gratefully received and I must say that 'sticking up' for your team is a admirable quality (you are civil service aren't you). However surely you cannot be serious when you say that I should have

a) 'folowed the advice originally given by the Embassy'

Their advice was not to marry in the UK because it was not allowed which we established at the time was not correct. Listen, I'm 44, self employed, well out of short trousers with half a brain full of garbage and knowledge on its way downhill. Its really none of anyones business but ourselves where we married.

or

'got a definate correction to that advice from them'

At he time I replied to the ECO via personal email and politely told her she was not correct seven days before we married. I never received a reply.. ever. It was not within my power to force a reply, just like other correspondence that has gone unanswered. On the day of the interview the interviewing ECO was shown the IND website printed page which is perfectly clear. The trouble is that he was on such a high horse by then about the matter that he scanned it and did not read it to understand it.

The reason this visa has been granted at this point in time is because within the next two weeks (deadline) the interviewing ECO would have had to write his expanded reasons for refusal to send to the appeal ... and what at twot he would have looked.

Edited August 20, 2005 by Vulture

[Vulture]

sorry to those reading the above the letter b seems to turn itself into a smilie on posting an seemingly will not be corrected

[GU22]

Listen,  I'm 44, self employed, well out of short trousers with half a brain full of garbage and knowledge on its way downhill.  Its really none of anyones business but ourselves where we married.

Sorry to say this, Vulture, but it is the attitude illustrated by the above statement that caused you the problem in the first place.

Still, your wife is now here and you can make all the smug comments you like about the "children" at the embassy. If I had been in your shoes I would have done things differently, accepted the original (possibly right, possibly wrong, only you know the exact circumstances) advice of the embassy and either married in Thailand and applied for a spouse visa or applied for a fiance visa so we could marry in the UK. My wife would then have come to the UK 4 months or more ago.

But then to me, being with my wife is more important than scoring petty victories over bureaucrats.

[mrbojangles]

I'm willing to go to Manchester if it means free beer!

Scouse.

I'll buy you a pint rkid! I owe you one, or two, or three, or four..........

I'll ditto that Rj Hopefully my Mrs will be in Manchester at the end of September. Looks like you won't be needing to put your hand in your pocket at all Scouse

P.S. and i love a nice ruby murray myself

[the scouser]

Looks like you won't be needing to put your hand in your pocket at all Scouse 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just name the date, then.

Scouse.

[mrbojangles]

Looks like you won't be needing to put your hand in your pocket at all Scouse 

Just name the date, then.

Scouse.

How many TVers are in the Manchester area or willing to travel? Who prefers a mid-week session to a weekend session? My preferance is a weekend, so that i can get hammered and not have to go to work.

[Vulture]

MrBoj, we will no doubt come across and help you celebrate.