Prenuptial Agreement - Need A Good Lawyer

[dagling]

Can anyone recomend a good lawyer in Bangkok or Pattay for making an Prenuptial agreement before I get maried? Need help as soon as possible.

[JohnC]

Khun Katrina Wonnasakda <snip> recommended by many embassies.

[givenall]

Khun Katrina Wonnasakda <snip> recommended by many embassies.

Don't get married

[dagling]

Khun Katrina Wonnasakda <snip> recommended by many embassies.

Anyone who have some informasjon that can help me, please send me a PM

[dagling]

Hope to hear from you soon, I relly need help here

[Valjean]

For what it's worth here's the one I had an attorney write. Within this there were some particulars to my assets and our agreement but the main thing is to describe them in detail in the Exhibits. It's pretty straightforward.

Clearly I'm not an attorney and you must decide what legal review or advice you need. If you have a complicated situation then you for sure need advice. Caveat emptor!!!

The process is simple. Complete this document (or the one you do with the attorney) and when you go register your marriage bring this along and it gets filed and is on record with all the legal documents. It's my understanding that this step is essential for it to be binding.

Good luck.

Derek

Prenuptial_Agreement.pdf

Prenuptial_Agreement.doc

[Harcourt]

For what it's worth here's the one I had an attorney write. Within this there were some particulars to my assets and our agreement but the main thing is to describe them in detail in the Exhibits. It's pretty straightforward.

Clearly I'm not an attorney and you must decide what legal review or advice you need. If you have a complicated situation then you for sure need advice. Caveat emptor!!!

The process is simple. Complete this document (or the one you do with the attorney) and when you go register your marriage bring this along and it gets filed and is on record with all the legal documents. It's my understanding that this step is essential for it to be binding.

Good luck.

Derek

I didn't look at the downloads. One very important aspect to a pre-nup is that each party has his/her own lawyer advise on it, otherwise it may be argued later that one party was not sufficiently informed at the time of the signing of the agreement.

All you have to do is get her to take the agreement to a different lawyer to your own lawyer to advise her and to witness.

[dagling]

For what it's worth here's the one I had an attorney write. Within this there were some particulars to my assets and our agreement but the main thing is to describe them in detail in the Exhibits. It's pretty straightforward.

Clearly I'm not an attorney and you must decide what legal review or advice you need. If you have a complicated situation then you for sure need advice. Caveat emptor!!!

The process is simple. Complete this document (or the one you do with the attorney) and when you go register your marriage bring this along and it gets filed and is on record with all the legal documents. It's my understanding that this step is essential for it to be binding.

Good luck.

Derek

Thank you very much Valjean, and all of you others

[sassienie]

Hope to hear from you soon, I relly need help here

Why the hurry? Is she having second thoughts?

[llso]

A prenup agreement in English is useless. All a poor little inncent Thai girl will have to say is that she doesnt read or understand English very well or at all and didn't know what she signed. If it ever came to that she would look so sweet and innocent and you would look like someone who was trying to exploit women. This situation get very complicated ,

I t all depends on the home country its laws ans so on. My friend was advised to find a Thai Lawyer in his home country and have the document written and verbally explained to the girl in Thai all certified and this still is not 100%.

In the end my friend decided not to get married but is still with the girl.

[F1fanatic]

If you feel the need for a prenup - you really shouldn't be getting married.

[cognos]

How about this..DO NOT get one.. DROP the notion..i was thinking along the same lines..but changed my mind for reasons i won't go into here. Signed: the best decision i ever made

[Maizefarmer]

A prenup agreement in English is useless. All a poor little inncent Thai girl will have to say is that she doesnt read or understand English very well or at all and didn't know what she signed. If it ever came to that she would look so sweet and innocent and you would look like someone who was trying to exploit women. This situation get very complicated ,

I t all depends on the home country its laws ans so on. My friend was advised to find a Thai Lawyer in his home country and have the document written and verbally explained to the girl in Thai all certified and this still is not 100%.

In the end my friend decided not to get married but is still with the girl.

Agreed - for a contract of any kind to be legaly binding in a Thai court of law it must be in Thai or accompanied by a certified Thai language copy. Thats always been my understanding of how Thai courts work.

......... anyone care to comment

[LaoPo]

If you feel the need for a prenup - you really shouldn't be getting married.

1. If a couple decides to draft a prenuptial agreement, both parties should have been able to read (and have the agreement explained) in a language that they understand; meaning: if the mother tongue of one partners is English and the other is Thai, the agreement should be written in both languages. The agreement should also be explained in Thai by an independent Lawyer, able to speak and understand both languages.

2. I disagree with F1fanatic since a Prenuptial agreement is to protext both partners in the future. A simple example is that if one partner goes bankrupt the assets of the other cannot be touched.

I always suggest people to talk to a wise (internationally orientated) Notary or, if not available, to a respectable Lawyers' office with experience in multi cultural marriages/relations.

It will avoid many problems in the future in the case of a (unexpected) divorce.

LaoPo

[ajsp9]

Mackensie Smith Law are good. Have offices in jomtien, Chateau Dale and in BKK

[cognos]

Lao Po, i understand where you are coming from..my perception is..why get married if you are already planning for a possible divorce? If you're response is that you have about a 50% chance of divorce, then have insurance for that 50% chance, then my response would be..up to you..i understand..but we can agree to disagree. i think it starts the marriage on a glass half empty as opposed to glass half full scenario, and there is an inherent appearance of non trust, or at least expecting the worst and you won't be disappointed. This philosophy is fine in my view for most things, but for your best friend/ soulmate and lover?? If a penniless farang wanted to marry a rich Thai lady (shoe on the other foot), and she insisted on a pre nup, i would guess most farang would tell her to stick it where the hot, merciless Thai sun don't shine. Whats good for the goose is also good for the gander.

[LaoPo]

Lao Po, i understand where you are coming from..my perception is..why get married if you are already planning for a possible divorce?

It's NOT about planning a possible divorce. NOBODY marries with a possible divorce in the back of the head.

But I wrote the answer already before; a prenuptial agreement (and at the same time a will) is to protect BOTH partners for unexpected circumstances in future life.

Intelligent people plan for the unexpected; only fools dive in deep water without knowing how to swim and how deep it is.

Why do you buckle up in a car ?

Why do people still make love without a condom ?

Example:

2 people marry but one of them is poor. The other has x million in assets. That rich partner loves the other one to pieces but finds out -after a while- that the other partner has an (ex) lover and is cheating upon big time...

What do you advise ? Tell the rich partner to divorce, upon which divorce he has to give the cheating partner 50% of the assets ?

Hmmmm....I'm sorry but I could give you at least 2 examples whereby the rich partner was murdered...in Thailand and set up by their spouses and partners/lovers!

I could give you a whole list why people should always consider a prenuptial agreement BEFORE they marry; unfortunately the ignorance is still out there.

LaoPo

[cognos]

i understand your excellent anaylsis..however would you not agree that every relationship situation is unique?..trust me i considered it..and decided against it, and so far have not regretted the decision one iota. i will not go into the whole song and dance, but suffice to say that AFTER I dropped the idea of a pre- nup with my future ( and now) wife, low and behold, i discovered she has equal if not more assets than me ( my house in Vancouver is paid off and i have a substantial amount in investments, like gold stocks, etc.) she has 4 plus acres of land in a prime area of Phuket. Even if she did not have this land ( which i am cognizant is not mine,or even "ours".. never will be) i would not have done the pre nup. i would practically bet my life that if we ever did divorce, she would be the type of thai lady that would just walk, without redress. I can't proove it to you, but thats okay.. anyway, time will tell. i would rather just stay single and be a happy playboy ( like I did for years) than do a pre nup, but that is just me. I am probably in the minority of farang who think this way, but I've never followed the crowd in anything else, and it seems to work for me. There are many Thai women who would not fool around on their husband.. and i won't be so arrogant to say that mine is one..but..

[LaoPo]

^^^^ I hope it will work out fine for you and your wife in the future and hope you will never encounter any problems. If so, you're blessed.

Amen

LaoPo

[Farma]

Regardless of the pros and cons, the procedure for registering a pre nuptial at time of marriage is simple and adds a short time onto the marriage registration process.

The process when I accompanied friends marrying with a prenup just over a month ago went smoothly.

Their lawyers had a prenup typed up and agreed by both. One lawyer accompanied them to the Umphur.

The lawyer handed over the prenup with marriage application. The Umphur official inspected the prenup and showed it to the senior officer for his approval. They then asked both parties if they knew what was in the agreement. Once satisfied all was agreed they proceeded to process the marriage.

The terms of the prenup was typed in Thai on the back of the marriage certificate. 5 copies of the Thai prenup were made and stamped after being witnessed.

The senior supervisor checked all papers were in order, stamped, signed and handed over the 2 marriage certificates (with prenup agreement typed on the back), 2 certified copies of the marriage application paperwork + 5 certified copies of the prenup.

[thaihome]

...

Agreed - for a contract of any kind to be legaly binding in a Thai court of law it must be in Thai or accompanied by a certified Thai language copy. Thats always been my understanding of how Thai courts work.

......... anyone care to comment

Not true at all. Many contracts in Thailand are not in Thai and are completing enforceable under the Thai commercial code.

TH

[cognos]

all marriages have a few problems..big or small..with the latter, it may be easier with a pre nup to "bail"

[ricklev]

Having assets outside of Thailand will greatly complicate the prenup and not consulting a lawyer from your own country in such circumstances would be foolish.

[Arkady]

...

Agreed - for a contract of any kind to be legaly binding in a Thai court of law it must be in Thai or accompanied by a certified Thai language copy. Thats always been my understanding of how Thai courts work.

......... anyone care to comment

Not true at all. Many contracts in Thailand are not in Thai and are completing enforceable under the Thai commercial code.

TH

You right. Agreements in foreign languages are perfectly binding in Thailand and they are made every day of the week. In the event of litigation in Thailand the court will require a certified Thai translation of the agreement but that doesn't need to be done at the time of the agreement. On the other hand, it would make sense to do a pre-nup with a Thai spouse in Thai and I think this required if it is to be registered.

[Arkady]

For what it's worth here's the one I had an attorney write. Within this there were some particulars to my assets and our agreement but the main thing is to describe them in detail in the Exhibits. It's pretty straightforward.

Clearly I'm not an attorney and you must decide what legal review or advice you need. If you have a complicated situation then you for sure need advice. Caveat emptor!!!

The process is simple. Complete this document (or the one you do with the attorney) and when you go register your marriage bring this along and it gets filed and is on record with all the legal documents. It's my understanding that this step is essential for it to be binding.

Good luck.

Derek

Looks to me as if this agreement more or less formalizes the status quo of Thai divorce law that permits only the division of assets acquired after marriage. The notable differences are that additions to personal bank accounts after marriage are not conjugal assets that can be divided in the event of divorce. Also the agreement seems to imply that any assets not listed in the agreement can be regarded as conjugal assets. This type of agreement is standard procedure for wealthy Thais who want to have their personal assets clearly indentified before marriage to minimize fights about who gets what in the event of divorce. I am not sure, if the agreement not to consider additions to bank accounts as onjugal property would be upheld by a Thai court, as it is contrary to Thai law.

I don't understand posters who say that any one comtemplating a pre-nup shouldn't get married. 50% of marriages in the US end in divorce but far less than 50% of newly weds believe they will be getting divorced. That means that there must be many people end up getting divorced who didn't expect it or prepare for it. I have seen enough people virtually skinned alive by divorce courts and left with almost nothing to feel that it is better to hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

I am not sure what would be the situation for overseas assets and whether it is worth including them in the agreement. Thai courts don't attempt to exercise jurisdiction overseas. It probably depends on the jurisdiction whether this agreement would be recognized or not. The UK courts only recognize pre-nups if they give more to the less affluent party than they would get without a pre-nup, i.e. this sample agreement would not be recognized by a UK court because they would stand to get half of all assets without a pre-nup. However, a UK court would probably only accept the case, if at least one of the parties was permanently resident there, or if the couple had resided there for a significant period of time. I think most states in the US accept pre-nups and I can't see why a pre-nup like the one posted should not be acceptable in a US court. For other countries I don't know. If you are quite wealthy and have significant assets overseas, it is best to have accounts in the name of offshore companies and/or trusts that other liquid assets can be quickly rolled up into in the event of danger. It's also best to avoid falling into the jurisdiction of any Western courts.

Edited December 16, 2009 by Arkady