Aust crackdown

[snoophound]

Why do AUS immigration continualy pick on thailand?

Just because of one high profile case of sex slavery out of melbourne they are using this to make it incredibly difficult for us to bring our thai friends to visit in AUST.

Bascily anyone without a very large bank acct by thai standards will have a very hard job getting a three mth visa to aus.

The interview process is degrading and insensitive.

My experience is first hand and I can tell you the problem is not Thai ,it is the Chinese who by far have the largest operations in this area in AUS and NZ.

[Pink Mist]

I have also had my problems with Aussie immigration in Bangkok(or my wife did). Things are getting worse for people wishing to immigrate or visit Australia. I know the case you are referring to in Melbourne but there have been a lot of others too. ABC news story last week was about the formation of a whole task force of Aussie Federal cops and 1 Immigration officer to be based in Bangkok specifically to check on Thai girs coming into Aust.

The Immigration situation in Australia at the moment seems to have a lot of public support for the howard governments handling of situation, they dont care that he was caught lying about the babies overboard situation.The govnmt reshhuffled last week and put vandstone in as immigration minister and she will be worse than ruddock when it comes to ruthlessness.

There was a very well publicised case last week of two balanese/iraq children who cant get a visa to visit their father who is in Baxter detention centre (in SA).These children lost their Mother in the Bali bombing last year and there is no compassion for their cause, they are considered a risk, they are only babies who want to see their Dad. There are lots more stories like that involving children that I wont go into here as it is probably not the forum.

I will get off my soap box now but the immigration situation here leaves a lot to be desired as far as I can see but howard is gonna pull votes so who knows

bronco

[samran]

Don't disagree with you about the harshness of the current regeime. Bringing my relatives out to OZ is sometimes very hard.

But what do you do? According to I contact I have at the NZ embassy, NZ once tried a couple of years ago to allow Thai's to visit visa free for tourist purposes, but they had to stop that as they had massive problems with illegal working and overstays....and prostution.

This is the problem Australia also has, even with the current strict regeime. There always seems to be people slipping though.  I know that this problem is common with other nationalites who break Australian immigration law and overstay (UK citizens are big overstayers according to DIMA statistics), but I guess harsh crackdowns on britsh citizens wouldn't go down too well in OZ, especially as there is so many of them living there and eligable to vote!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

New Zealand did allow Thai's to enter without a visa and stay 90 days for tourism purposes. The scheme went for a number of years, and it was reciprocal, Kiwi's could stay 90 days in LOS, also for tourism with no visa either. There were abuses on both sides, and NZ pulled the pin at the end of 2001. As is usual in diplomacy, Thailand semi retaliated and dropped the permit on arrival back to 30 days for the NZers, whereas all Thai's need a visa to enter NZ for any period at all. All western embassies are tough and look for compelling reasons for applicants to return to their homeland, but the Thai staff at the Oz Embassy are real muscle flexer's and they are rude, particularly to female applicants.

[samran]

Not trying to defend the OZ embassy (I agree with Dr PP on this) but I think it is the thai staff at all embassys you have to watch out for. They all seem to take it upon themselves to be uber b@stards!

A civil servant who I work with (male, richer than I ever hope to be, with cushy govt job for life) got turned down for a visa by a Thai staffer at the US embassy last week. The reason given was cause he had a sister living in the US there was potential he may not come back.

Frustrated, he went back a second time, insisting on seeing the farang supervisor. Got the visa no problems.

My view is that in combination with strict western immigration rules, the Thai tendency to get upitty and rude with anyone they have power or status over (ie my workplace!) doesn't make the visa application process easier.

[penelope]

I have to disagree.Been there and done that so this is my spiel :

I met my wife(many years ago) when she was in Aussie on a student visa.Work committments brought us both back to LOS and over the last 10 years we have been to and fro between LOS and Aussie.We have been through the entire visa process(tourist, residency) and now she is an Aussie citizen(for 2 years now). We have both never had any problem with the embassy and I found the whole process rather painless.

Maybe the 'background' of the applicant has a lot to do with the dissention.

[NedKelly]

I know this is a contentious subject. I would like to add my bit for all to ponder. Imagine being a woman/girl who is tricked into going o/s to work in a 'restaurant' and ends up in a filthy brothel and having to service hundreds of fat ugly %$@#*'s everyday. You have no passport, no rights, no friends etc etc Only fear and degradation to keep you company ! This is why our governments try to protect these girls. Get off your high horses guys and just try again for your visias for your girlfriends/friends. If I had my way I would get a gun and shoot any bastard in the nuts who was involved in exploiting or trafficking women for their own benefit, so beware.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Ned ....does your post mean that you approve of rudeness and bastardry in most circumstances at western embassies ?

[geezer]

but I guess harsh crackdowns on britsh citizens wouldn't go down too well in OZ, especially as there is so many of them living there and eligable to vote!

well we british have  that status as do the aussies while in the uk i myself had no problem with the australian embassy when me and my thai wife went there last year i got a year she got 6 months u see every country has rules and they ask a certain number of things for the applicant to show before being accepted or not abviously if u dont have the stuff required u would be turned down i dont think it has anything to do with where u r from

[Pink Mist]

I have to disagree.Been there and done that so this is my spiel :

I met my wife(many years ago) when she was in Aussie on a student visa.Work committments brought us both back to LOS and over the last 10 years we have been to and fro between LOS and Aussie.We have been through the entire visa process(tourist, residency) and now she is an Aussie citizen(for 2 years now). We have both never had any problem with the embassy and I found the whole process rather painless.

Maybe the 'background' of the applicant has a lot to do with the dissention.

I know quite a few people here in Oz who have been thru the Visa process at various times and I can assure you it has become a lot more difficult over the last 10 years. I would like to say about embassy experiences but we are currently negotiating another issue and would hate to think of staff reading posts here.

Am I being paranoid ? maybe somebody could tell me.

bronco

[dr_Pat_Pong]

they probably do take a peek Bronco, but they'd be hard pressed to identify you unless your situation is unique and recognizable.      :cool:

[Pink Mist]

I just modified my surname.

[penelope]

I know quite a few people here in Oz who have been thru the Visa process at various times and I can assure you it has become a lot more difficult over the last 10 years.

What is the 'background' of these people who have difficulties.

My wife has an MBA from an Ausie uni,is fluent in English, is financially secure in her own right, owns property in Aussie and LOS,has a good job at a well known mulitnational , had already lived half of her life overseas (at the time residency was granted), is married to an Aussie who has had work permits for the better part of the last 10 years in LOS and works for a different well known multi national.

My point is, that if you have difficulties it is because your "situation" raises alarm bells.

Do you think a member of the Sinawatra family would have "difficulties" ? No, probably not.There is a social threshold.Those below it will usually have hassles and indignity thrown at them.Those above it will be treated properly. Sometimes it is unjust,sometimes the system works in Australia's favor.... but that's just the way it is.

[Pink Mist]

I know quite a few people here in Oz who have been thru the Visa process at various times and I can assure you it has become a lot more difficult over the last 10 years.

What is the 'background' of these people who have difficulties.

My wife has an MBA from an Ausie uni,is fluent in English, is financially secure in her own right, owns property in Aussie and LOS,has a good job at a well known mulitnational , had already lived half of her life overseas (at the time residency was granted), is married to an Aussie who has had work permits for the better part of the last 10 years in LOS and works for a different well known multi national.

My point is, that if you have difficulties it is because your "situation" raises alarm bells.

Do you think a member of the Sinawatra family would have "difficulties" ? No, probably not.There is a social threshold.Those below it will usually have hassles and indignity thrown at them.Those above it will be treated properly. Sometimes it is unjust,sometimes the system works in Australia's favor.... but that's just the way it is.

I have probably not explained myself too well. The people to whom I refer have been here for a long while and are mostly citizens and permanent visa situation and they have noticed the changes over the last 10 years.

You are right in what you say, affluent people would have no problem with a visa and the social threshold barrier is very high. The case officers in Bangkok have "guidlines" to follow but some times they can be overzealous.

I dont want to go into specifics here but we had a shall we say a "personality clash " with one person in Bangkok which was later addressed in Australia.

I am no orphan in this situation, but my whole point was and is, that it has become a lot harder for "most" people now.

regards

bronco

[snoophound]

i think this is my point

take a cruise around the local houses of ill repute in sydney or melb and you will find a united nations of european girls working illegally.

Why pick on thai or phillipiino????

I think its the police who need to address the slavery issues not immigration.

It is insensitive and predjudiced.

Some of you expats know what a thai worker gets paid even in a shop or as a factory worker.

5-6 k per mth.

How can they possibly come for a holiday to aus without our help???

[dr_Pat_Pong]

My wife has an MBA from an Ausie uni,is fluent in English, is financially secure in her own right, owns property in Aussie and LOS,has a good job at a well known mulitnational , had already lived half of her life overseas (at the time residency was granted), is married to an Aussie who has had work permits for the better part of the last 10 years in LOS and works for a different well known multi national.

She obviously had what the case officer wanted her to have. The ' ordinary ' Thai needs to show compelling reasons why he or she will return to Thailand if granted a Visitor Visa.

[OzzieMan]

Interesting disscussion guys, but please remember Governments only do what they thing the people want and this gets them votes, to many problems of illegal entries and that fact once they are on Australian soil they can demand to be protected with Australia legal representation at the tax payers cost has made the average Joe Blow in the street get upset.

The circumstances always out way any thing else, the company I work for send people from all over the world into Australia every week, We put up a bond and have to gaurantee a return ticket, never had a problem in the 6 yrs I have been with them

Now take a thai girl, chinese or what ever, who can speak little or no english, has no real financial ties in her home country, and worse of all has a single guy in Australia,

Alarm bells start ringing

The message Australia is sending is there is no quick easy fix to your thai problems but if your serious just wait in the line, there is an end it just might take some time

And guys if you serious marry her, it helps you jump up the line only if you can prove you can support her and not put her on the pension line up.

Interesting fact: 45% of Asian young ladies who meet and marry Australia men in their later years, will walk out on him within the 1st 12 months and demand the lot, plus support from the government

and you though she loved you for your wisdom

[snoophound]

yes agreed

not a huge sucess rate of thai/aust marriages,the girls all dream of the better life in AU,UK,NZ,but reality is they get really homesick, Go stand in the queue in the aust embassy and see the number of lonely old falangs trying to get their bargirl into the country.I dont see why a three mth visa with maybe a reasonalbe say 3k bond should be so hard as they do in NZ

that said a friend of mine married an east timorese girl she had his baby and they still had a tough job getting her in.

Yet look at all the other chinese,middle eastern ,central european nationalities that come into aus in droves.

[snoophound]

ozzieman re the 45%

Where did you pick up this stat?

Is their comparisons or other percentages  with other nationalities?Is thai with worst??

[penelope]

45% of Asian young ladies who meet and marry Australia men in their later years, will walk out on him within the 1st 12 months and demand the lot

Thank goodness my wife is 3 years older than me  

[snoophound]

hmm maybe thats in the higher percentile

[penelope]

I'd say there would be a very low total of Thai-Falang relationships where the women was older.I personally know of none of all the couples I've encountered.

[snoophound]

yes would be a good way to test the embassy drones policies.

try and get a 45 year old thai woman in on visitor visa .

Suspect I can guess the answer.

I also think some of these fortunate "educated" thai females in the embassy truly look down upoun the BG s wanting to try and make a better life for themselves.

Maybe they need a stint in Surin,Or Roiet to learn about life in thailand.

I know the one I had the misfortune of dealing with would have no idea about realities of life for a poor family in ISSAN.

I just hate the way they think they are so superior just because they had a rich daddy!

[Pink Mist]

Interesting disscussion guys, but please remember Governments only do what they thing the people want and this gets them votes, to many problems of illegal entries and that fact once they are on Australian soil they can demand to be protected with Australia legal representation at the tax payers cost has made the average Joe Blow in the street get upset.

The circumstances always out way any thing else, the company I work for send people from all over the world into Australia every week, We put up a bond and have to gaurantee a return ticket, never had a problem in the 6 yrs I have been with them

Now take a thai girl, chinese or what ever, who can speak little or no english, has no real financial ties in her home country, and worse of all has a single guy in Australia,

Alarm bells start ringing

The message Australia is sending is there is no quick easy fix to your thai problems but if your serious just wait in the line, there is an end it just might take some time

And guys if you serious marry her, it helps you jump up the line only if you can prove you can support her and not put her on the pension line up.

Interesting fact: 45% of Asian young ladies who meet and marry Australia men in their later years, will walk out on him within the 1st 12 months and demand the lot, plus support from the government

and you though she loved you for your wisdom

I think there are a couple of issues here, sure the goverment acts on votors sentiments, but my point was the Embassy in Bangkok.

If you happen to get on the wrong side of a case worker then it is an uphill battle, I know of one particular caseworker who was disciplined for her attitude ( maybe not disciplined but got an attitude adjustment ), that was after the intervention of an Australian Politician. I dont think seeing any of the Australian staff would help as they could possibly point you toward the Migration Review Tribunal which will cost Aud$1200 and is non refundable.

What else can you say ? someone else said why not marry the girl ? again you will run into an attitude of suspicion and doubt by these Thai Ladies but what else can you do ?

I suggest if you have a strong case to talk to your local member and remember the normal processing time for a spousal visa is meant to be 9 months. It wont happen overnight but it will happen

bronco

[Pink Mist]

The interesting fact about 45% leaving in first 12 months would not apply now. The process has changed.

You apply for spousal visa (spouse Provisional subclass 309 ) as I said processing time is meant to be 9 months, once granted the spouse must enter Australia within 12 months of visa being granted.

On the second anniversary of the visa being granted the spouse and husband have an interview with DIMA in the capital city where or nearest to where they live. At this interview they must show again show proof of a "serious ongoing relationship" definitions of this can be found in the spousal migration hand book ( which can be downloaded from the DIMA web site )

After the interview and subsequent decision  ( if positive ) a Pemanent Visa will be issued and from there the Citizenship process begins.

The city I live in does'nt have a huge Thai population. There was a Thai/ Australian Society but is on hold because of huge Public Liability Insurance costs. People now socialise mainly thru contact at the temple and I would say that here it is a 99% marriage stability rate.

Maybe in Sydney or Melbourne it is different.

bronco

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Where in Oz do you reside Bronco ?

[Edward B]

I think I can guess...Brisbane?  Perfect one day, pissing down the next.

[penelope]

I also think some of these fortunate "educated" thai females in the embassy truly look down upoun the BG s wanting to try and make a better life for themselves.

Yes there are PROBLEMS with the system.

Lets be constructive and look at some SOLUTIONS.

1) change Aussie immigration policy.Unlikely.

2) change attitude of embassy workers.Unlikely.

3) change the applicants situation to overcome points 1 and 2.

I can think of 2 ways to acheive point 3 :

1) changed situation can be real (ie: get a real uni degree, land, job,own a company, long relationship history etc....), but is likely to take time and money.

2) changed situation can be a facade.After all Thailand is the land of suface wealth/superficial apperances.A well constructed,convincing facade can work wonders.Create the paper work, create the credibility, train the applicant, engineer the situation,play the game dont let the game play you, etc....

[Pink Mist]

Maybe you guessed Brisbane because of the Broncos but no City of Churches and have a little dwelling in Banpaed.

Penelope we did manage to change one workers attitude (if only for our case) and as I said before but it required a little help from this end (OZ).

I have also mentioned in another post we have another matter going on at the moment and I am wondering if we are paying for the "help" we got from here, because we are getting the run around again.

There are ways to get around a lot of the issues that you will come across at the embassy and as you say play the system dont let it play you.

bronco

[dr_Pat_Pong]

True ...I guessed Brisbane for that exact reason. Adelaide is a nice little place too, and it has a visa friendly Thai Consulate.