No Loss Of Face If Thaksin Helps Release Detained Thai In Cambodia

[webfact]

Suthep: No loss of face if Thaksin helps release detained Thai in Cambodia

BANGKOK, Nov 18 (TNA) - Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thuagsuban said the Abhisit government would not 'lose face' if convicted ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra helps release the Thai engineer detained in Cambodia on spy charges.

Siwarak Chothipong, 31, a Thai national employed at Cambodia Air Traffic Service (CATS), was arrested last week after being accused of giving information about ex-Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra's flight schedule to a Thai consular official in Phnom Penh.

Some Thai media reported that Mr Thaksin had contacted Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen to free Mr Siwarak and that opposition Puea Thai Party chairman Gen Chavalit Yongchaiyuth will fly to accompany him back to Thailand.

Asked by reporters whether the move would be an attempt to upstage the government, Mr Suthep said the government is not working to show off.

He said after the arrest, Defence Minister Gen Prawit Wongsuwan was trying to contact Cambodian authorities for fair treatment of Mr Siwarak but he said the government must observe Cambodian sovereignty.

Mr Suthep added that the flight schedule should not be considered a secret information.

He said he had no report confirming Gen Chavalit's trip to Cambodia to bring Mr Siwarak back to Thailand but if true, the government would not consider it losing face as long as Mr Siwarak is safe. (TNA)

-- TNA 2009/11/18

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[hammered]

Quite a sensible comment from Suthep for once consdiering the last phrase about Khun Siwarak's safety.

[Insight]

Arrested on dubious spying charges, Mum wants Thaksin's intervention, Chavalit going to bring him back...?

Thaksin needs something to make himself look like a hero after that Times interview. This story stinks.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Arrested on dubious spying charges, Mum wants Thaksin's intervention, Chavalit going to bring him back...?

Thaksin needs something to make himself look like a hero after that Times interview. This story stinks.

the former worshipful leader is digging his own grave.

[Dpolenz]

What a load of....

[Lunar]

>No loss of face?

Why made it as news?

[rfukata]

probably better off if the detainee stays in Cambodia and heats up the relationship.

as it stands now, Thailand is really not in a win win situation itself.

[webfact]

UPDATE

Thaksin should struggle via conventional means: Suthep

By The Nation

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thuagsuban on Wednesday urged fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra not to rely on unconventional means for his political struggle.

Suthep was reacting to Thaksin's Twitter message about leading the red shirts to force the government exit. The red shirts are scheduled to hold a rally from November 29 to December 3, billed as a showdown.

"I deem it inappropriate for Thaksin to fight with unconventional means; everything should be in accordance with the political system," he said.

Commenting on Thaksin's claim to have intervened and arranged for the release of a Thai man charged for spying in Cambodia, he said he did know the details.

"If anyone can help saving a Thai, then the government is not losing face because a man's life is more precious than a political game," he said.

-- The Nation 2009/11/18

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[WinnieTheKhwai]

"Conventional means".. Such as... military coups.. bribing MPs to join your side.. paying witnesses and influencing courts to get political parties banned.. those kind of conventional means, I guess.

[Artisi]

The Thai government should get some b_alls and immediately cease all relations with Cambodia, stop all flights to / from Thailand / Cambodia and close the borders until such times as Cambodia wakes up to itself. At the end of the day who is Cambodia other than just another corrupt (more corrupt than Thailand) 3rd world country run by criminal elements who couldn't give a rats a_rse for its own people let alone Thailand.

Thailand's economy is certainly strong enough to not miss Cambodia's economic input and they (Thailand) would be far better off channelling their efforts into something worthwhile like sorting out their own domestic problems without the likes of Cambodia and their new found friend Thaksin continually snapping at their heels.

[givenall]

UPDATE

Thaksin should struggle via conventional means: Suthep

By The Nation

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thuagsuban on Wednesday urged fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra not to rely on unconventional means for his political struggle.

Suthep was reacting to Thaksin's Twitter message about leading the red shirts to force the government exit. The red shirts are scheduled to hold a rally from November 29 to December 3, billed as a showdown.

"I deem it inappropriate for Thaksin to fight with unconventional means; everything should be in accordance with the political system," he said.

Commenting on Thaksin's claim to have intervened and arranged for the release of a Thai man charged for spying in Cambodia, he said he did know the details.

"If anyone can help saving a Thai, then the government is not losing face because a man's life is more precious than a political game," he said.

-- The Nation 2009/11/18

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Everything he has been doing is out of desperation, unconventional and stupid, and ….. oh well you get the idea

[Siripon]

"Conventional means".. Such as... military coups.. bribing MPs to join your side.. paying witnesses and influencing courts to get political parties banned.. those kind of conventional means, I guess.

You really should stop describing Thaksin-

One of his first big contracts was with one of the coup leaders against Chartchai in 1991.

Thaksin's always supported the Burmese junta and said he understood why they imprisoned Aung San Su Kyi.

He bought the whole of NAP, Chavalit's party with the exception of one MP.

Influencing courts? He tried to pay the judges 2 million baht in a lunch

nd how about the 2001 verdict, 8-7 regarding depositing assets in his servants' names? A honest mistake!!!!!!

Edited November 18, 2009 by Siripon

[webfact]

Thaksin to help detained Thai engineer in Cambodia

BANGKOK, Nov 18 (TNA) - Fugitive ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra is willing to help the Thai engineer detained in a Cambodian prison as his mother has earlier asked, Thaksin legal adviser Noppadon Pattama affirmed Wednesday.

Mr Noppadon commented after the mother of Siwarak Chothipong, detained by Cambodian authorities on spying charges, said through a media interview that she wanted Mr Thaksin to help her son to get out of jail there.

The Thaksin aide said that the former premier has acknowledged her demand and is willing to help on humanitarian grounds, but that it should wait for the Cambodian legal process to unfold first.

"Mr Thaksin reaffirmed that Mr Siwarak will be treated fairly without any prejudice," the attorney said. "Currently he is considered innocent, but if he is found guilty, the former premier hopes that the Cambodian court will give him mercy."

Mr Noppadon said that Mr Siwarak's mother told him to pass her gratitude to Mr Thaksin after being informed about his reaction to the matter.

"It is hard to lean on the government during this period due to diplomatic spat," said Mr Noppadon, while reaffirming that the former Thai premier is willing to help, but only after the Cambodian court's ruling.

Mr Noppadon however denied to specify what kind of "humanitarian" help would be extended and how it would help Mr Siwarak, saying only that the detained Thai national will be given mercy by Cambodia despite court ruling.

Ex-premier Thaksin's legal adviser also refused to give details of the charges but said that he believes the Cambodian authorities had clear evidence before arresting Mr Siwarak.

Some Thai media reported that Mr Thaksin had contacted Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen asking him to free Mr Siwarak and that opposition Puea Thai Party chairman Gen Chavalit Yongchaiyuth will fly to accompany him back to Thailand.

Mr Siwarak, 31, an employee of Cambodia Air Traffic Service (CATS), was arrested last week after being accused of giving information about Mr Thaksin's flight schedule to a Thai embassy official in Phnom Penh. (TNA)

-- TNA 2009/11/18

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[webfact]

UPDATE

Foreign Ministry: Thai charged with gaining secret information affecting Cambodia's national security

BANGKOK, Nov 18 (TNA) - Cambodian authorities filed charges Wednesday against a Thai engineer, accusing him of acquiring secret information which affects Cambodia's national security, according to the secretary of Thailand's Minister of Foreign Affairs Chavanond Intarakomalyasut.

Siwarak Chutipong, 31, an employee of Cambodia Air Traffic Services (CATS), was arrested in the Cambodian capital on spying charges last week after he was found releasing the flight schedule of fugitive ousted Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra to a Thai embassy official in Phnom Penh.

Mr Chavanond said that the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs had prepared a lawyer for Mr Siwarak, but it depends on him whether he wants to use the ministry's or his personal lawyer.

He said the ministry is now preparing legal materials to help the defendant against the Cambodian accusations, but that will be done under Cambodian legal procedure.

Foreign ministry official Thani Thongphakdi, deputy information director, said the ministry has received official notification from Cambodia of the charge, but details cannot be revealed now as the matter is now in court.

Mr Thani said that the foreign ministry is providing a Cambodian lawyer for Mr Siwarak as Cambodian law indicates that only Cambodian attorneys are allowed to represent a client in court.

He said that the lawyer is experienced in human rights issues, adding that the Thai Justice ministry has dispatched its senior officials to help take care of the case.

Following news reports that opposition Puea Thai Party chairman Gen Chavalit Yongchaiyuth will fly to escort Mr Siwarak back to Thailand, Mr Thani commented that the incident happened due to the visit to Phnom Penh of the convicted ex-premier, and that whoever gives a hand to help Mr Siwarak is doing good, but must not make the story more complicated.

The deputy director-general added that deputy director general of the Consular Affairs Department Mathurapojana Ittharong visited Mr Siwarak's family in Nakhon Ratchasima province to offer moral support and later took them ready passports for their trip to Phnom Penh to visit the defendant if they are allowed by Cambodian authorities.

Meanwhile, opposition member of parliament Jatuporn Prompan, also a leading member of the co-called 'Red Shirt' United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) revealed that the Cambodian authorities have got three clear pieces of evidence which indicate Mr Siwarak's guilt and is a danger to Cambodia's national security.

Mr Jatuporn said the three items of evidence are the flight schedule, an audio clip of conversation between Thai Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya and the first secretary of Thai embassy to Phnom Penh, and an audio clip in which the first secretary instructed Mr Siwarak to steal Mr Thaksin's flight schedule.

The Puea Thai MP said that Cambodia considers that Thailand has interfered in its domestic affairs as it considers that the flight schedule is related to its national security.

Mr Jatuporn urged the Thai foreign minister to admit what he had done before the Cambodian authorities expose the audio clip to the public, which he said will destroy Thailand's credibility, as well as his own.

The Puea Thai MP added that former premier Thaksin has coordinated with Cambodian authorities about the case and has been told that the legal procedure will be rapidly conducted with the minimum punishment.

He said if Mr Siwarak is convicted with a suspension of imprisonment, the Cambodian authorities will inform Gen Chavalit to take the Thai engineer back to Thailand. (TNA)

-- TNA 2009/11/18

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Meridian007]

"Conventional means".. Such as... military coups.. bribing MPs to join your side.. paying witnesses and influencing courts to get political parties banned.. those kind of conventional means, I guess.

You really should stop describing Thaksin-

One of his first big contracts was with one of the coup leaders against Chartchai in 1991.

Thaksin's always supported the Burmese junta and said he understood why they imprisoned Aung San Su Kyi.

He bought the whole of NAP, Chavalit's party with the exception of one MP.

Influencing courts? He tried to pay the judges 2 million baht in a lunch

nd how about the 2001 verdict, 8-7 regarding depositing assets in his servants' names? A honest mistake!!!!!!

Exactly! (except I'd describe all of TRT that way) Both sides are morally decrepit, one side is cronyist, the other is a plutocracy, but otherwise they are the same. You can't just wave a magic wand and democracy appears, there is a process. How long it takes is another issue...

***Edit***

And I just saw the update,

"Mr Jatuporn urged the Thai foreign minister to admit what he had done before the Cambodian authorities expose the audio clip to the public, which he said will destroy Thailand's credibility, as well as his own."

Another forged tape? Can't they come up with any new ideas? Of course, since this one is in another country, the government can't expose it as a fake like they did the last one. Very clever.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Meridian007

[zzaa09]

What a load of....

Yep. That as well...

[zzaa09]

The Thai government should get some b_alls and immediately cease all relations with Cambodia, stop all flights to / from Thailand / Cambodia and close the borders until such times as Cambodia wakes up to itself. At the end of the day who is Cambodia other than just another corrupt (more corrupt than Thailand) 3rd world country run by criminal elements who couldn't give a rats a_rse for its own people let alone Thailand.

If Thailand were to cut off relationships with corrupt cuntries rich of criminal elements - that would be quite the list. Edited November 18, 2009 by zzaa09

[loquent]

"Conventional means".. Such as... military coups.. bribing MPs to join your side.. paying witnesses and influencing courts to get political parties banned.. those kind of conventional means, I guess.

You really should stop describing Thaksin-

One of his first big contracts was with one of the coup leaders against Chartchai in 1991.

Thaksin's always supported the Burmese junta and said he understood why they imprisoned Aung San Su Kyi.

He bought the whole of NAP, Chavalit's party with the exception of one MP.

Influencing courts? He tried to pay the judges 2 million baht in a lunch

nd how about the 2001 verdict, 8-7 regarding depositing assets in his servants' names? A honest mistake!!!!!!

Exactly! (except I'd describe all of TRT that way) Both sides are morally decrepit, one side is cronyist, the other is a plutocracy, but otherwise they are the same. You can't just wave a magic wand and democracy appears, there is a process. How long it takes is another issue...

The Taksin saga has rumbled on so long now and this is just another mere installment.

All sides can take little credit from it. Hun Sen is pretty near the bottom of the barrell as is the whole of Cambodia. Taksin is totally corrupt and devoid of morals. Power is his drug, which he seeks to re-gain. Hun Sen is opportunist. The whole affair must not derail the Thai - Cambodian relations which will out run the current personalities involved.

When Saddam Hussien used the foreign children as pawns in his power games with the West it turned all decent peoples' stomaches. It is a simliar action being pursued now with the detention of one insignificant individual. However, uncorrupted countries would not dance to the tune. For example, the UK and American Govs. do not pay ransoms. Therefore, the manipulation of individuals is nuetered. The Thai Government would be wise to ignore the situation and let the judicial process run its course.

Bear in mind that justice in Cambodia is a saleable commodity. Therefore, I anticipate that a heavy penalty will be imposed, Taksin riding white horse will come to the rescue [ brownie points tallied ], all red shirts believe the con, all yellow shirts go ballistic, few intelligensia yawn knowlingly, dust settles.

There is no way back for Taksin.

It's a simple as that. It's not just the yellow shirts that are opposed. It is the whole gamut of freed up ex-cronies living in fear of not being seen as 'loyal' enough. As loud enough. As concerned enough to bring him back. It's over. they know it. He doesn't. Estrada finally got the message. Idi Amin did. Mussolin was too slow, the Chichecus lingered and lost, Hitler went in his bunker, Saddam paid, Kosovo / Boznian conflict leaders died or are jailed; the lsit goes on. Leaders, bad leaders let alone good ones, do NOT make it back. Hence, the prospect of Taksin part 2 - The Return, fills them with dread at the retribution Sweet Square Head would order. It's illogical but then it's Thai logic. Too many Arnie movies: they think he'll be back. Only handcuffed or pine boxed and they don't get it. But then neither does power mad Taksin.

And his worst enemy is Hun Sen. The man clearly has a price. Taksin paid part and the Thai Governement is paying the rest. But, when you are for sale, then maybe that extradition treaty can be invoked afterall. And that is the smart move. The bigger prize for Hun Sen is not to embarrass Thailand but it is to ride this out and untie Thai-Cambodian relations. What better than uniting international relations on a world stage? Great opportunity.

What's an Old Temple worth when compared with a bleading artery? The Thais should dangle the carrot.

Taksin would be doing well to sleep at night, as all he's got to offer Hun Sen is promises of deals to come when in power. The current Thai Gov. should be doing those deals now.

Taksin's position is untenable. Therefore, I expect his stay to be brief or else his downfall will be swift.

Edited November 18, 2009 by loquent

[DP25]

BANGKOK, Nov 18 (TNA) - Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thuagsuban said the Abhisit government would not 'lose face' if convicted ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra helps release the Thai engineer detained in Cambodia on spy charges.

I don't see why the Thai government would lose face, Thaksin is the one who should. The engineer was only arrested in the first place as a propaganda stunt so that Thaksin could be seen using his influence to "release" him. Hopefully most people will see through this charade

[webfact]

SPYING CHARGE

Both sides 'scrambling to be the hero'

By The Nation

Published on November 19, 2009

The government and the Thaksin camp have been scrambling to play the hero amid speculation that the alleged Thai "spy" being detained in Cambodia might be released soon.

The suspect's mother was said yesterday to be preparing to visit her son. She was being assisted by the government, but Thaksin's aide Noppadon Pattama claimed she also sought help from the fugitive ex-PM to get her boy home.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva confirmed that tension between the two countries had eased.

He said the Thai government was coordinating efforts to enable Simarak na Kakhon Panom to go to Phnom Penh and visit her son.

The woman had her passport issued at the Foreign Ministry's passport branch in Nakhon Ratchasima yesterday and could go to Cambodia immediately after getting the green light from the neighbouring country.

Siwarak was arrested last week and charged with stealing details of Thaksin's flight schedule during the ex-PM's controversial visit to Cambodia. The flight data was deemed confidential information detrimental to national security.

Phnom Penh detained Siwarak in a Phnom Penh prison but allowed him a first visit by consular officials on Tuesday.

Abhisit said the Thai government was ready to give the suspect legal assistance, as he had denied all the charges. However, the prime minister was optimistic the situation would continue to improve.

Asked if Thaksin was helping, Abhisit said: "I don't know what others are doing. I can only say that the government is doing its best to help the man and I believe the situation will get better."

He also denied knowledge about Siwarak's Phnom Penh workplace, Samart subsidiary Cambodia Air Traffic Services, which has faced an alleged clampdown.

He said the Foreign Ministry was checking reports the firm was having problems with Cambodian authorities.

But overall, Abhisit seemed upbeat. "It looks like what many initially feared were serious problems are not as serious as expected," he said.

Asked if Cambodia would pardon Siwarak to help Thaksin and Pheu Thai Party chairman Chavalit Yongchaiyudh politically, Abhisit said a pardon in accordance with Cambodia's justice system was possible. "But I don't know anything about Chavalit [preparing to go to Cambodia and bringing Siwarak back to Thailand]."

Noppadon claimed Thaksin had contacted "senior people in Cambodia" after receiving the call for help from the suspect's mother.

"He can't interfere with Cambodia's justice system but he promised to help her out of humanitarian reasons. He has made some calls to senior people in Cambodia," he said.

-- The Nation 2009/11/19

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Rinrada]

Latest rumour...dont believe it of course..is that he and Kampu Gov are going to start up a new Easy-jet type airline from Phnom Penh to London/Paris with prices from £299 return.

Imagine Cambodia Taxi (Taxins) Airways.......that could really finish off T Air and start a Hotel building boom on Acher Mean and Snooki Boulavard.....cos when it comes to $$$....roll up ...

Recon hes done a deal wiff the French..

where dae i get the bus...99Bt...yeah

[WinnieTheKhwai]

As much as I dislike rumor mongering, it WOULD be an excellent idea. Though, why Canbodia when the Thai Market is bigger; just do a connecting / feeder flight from Siem Reap into BKK.

Base it in Dubai where the fuel is cheap, then connect from there into various European destinations. (small cheapo airports)

Edited November 19, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[virtualtraveller]

Abhisit's govt are falling for this latest Thaksin publicity stunt hook, line and sinker. By making a big effort to help the suspect they are turning him into a high profile accused spy, when he's clearly nothing more than a political porn to help keep this whole issue with Cambodia in the news. They should completely ignore it publicly, while privately assisting. The Cambodian judicial code isn't worth the paper it's written on, to find him guilty they will have to produce trumped up 'evidence' which will further prove to ASEAN leaders that Hun Sen and his country are a poor cousin of justice. Eventually when they've gained whatever political capital they can out of it, a quiet released might be arranged.

If the govt try hard to get him freed, they'll fail, and Thaksin or Chalivat will gain all the credit for miraculously arranging his pardon, can't we all see through this game from the start, it's a typical cynical attempt by Thaksin, Hun Sen and Puea Thai to gain more cheap publicity.

[Ricardo]

probably better off if the detainee stays in Cambodia and heats up the relationship.

as it stands now, Thailand is really not in a win win situation itself.

Why would anyone consider it helpful to "heat up the relationship", nobody wants conflict here, with one of Thailand's neighbours ?

Suthep was reacting to Thaksin's Twitter message about leading the red shirts to force the government exit. The red shirts are scheduled to hold a rally from November 29 to December 3, billed as a showdown.

Hub of showdowns, anybody ?

[LawnGnome]

"Conventional means".. .. bribing MPs to join your side.. paying witnesses and influencing courts

Will you ever stop talking about Thaksin's history?

[Insight]

"Conventional means".. .. bribing MPs to join your side.. paying witnesses and influencing courts

Will you ever stop talking about Thaksin's history?

Thanks for posting this. Enjoy the pastry I'm sending you for lunch.

[LawnGnome]

"Conventional means".. .. bribing MPs to join your side.. paying witnesses and influencing courts

Will you ever stop talking about Thaksin's history?

Thanks for posting this. Enjoy the pastry I'm sending you for lunch.

Better make it a vegetable tray, im on a diet.

[Sheryl]

"Mr Suthep added that the flight schedule should not be considered a secret information" (from initial post/Nation article)

Are we to take that to mean that the Government of Thailand would have no objection to a foreign national employed at Suvanabhumi giving the coordinates of a VIP's arrival to a foreign Embassy? Somehow I doubt it very much. (VIP as in high profile person, not meant to imply anything favorable about Mr Taksin ).

There is some discrepancy between the facts described in the Thai vs the Cambodian media (referring here to reputable English language Cambodian media) in that the Thai reports seem to imply that all that was handed over was the flight schedule i.e. date and time of expected arrival, while the Cambodian media refer to it as "flight plan" implying details such as the exact flight course. The latter such information would definitely be privileged and not for distribution to outside entities under any circumstances. I believe it is also not customary to provide scheduled arrival date and time information on private flights (which this was) to other than airport personnel.

The task of ensuring security for high profile guests falls upon the host country and certainly this particular person was one who had enemies. One can be critical of the Cambodian government's decision to invite Taksin to come (and I am), but having done so, they did obviously have both the right and obligation to ensure security, just as Thailand takes security precautions for high profile people arriving at its own airports.

While politicians on both sides are obviously milking this for what they can get out of it, there is IMO a genuine issue here for Cambodia, specifically the failure of the Thai government and its Embassy personnel to show a normal degree of respect for Cambodia as a sovereign country. To my knowledge this is a significant point of resentment for both the Cambodian government and the Cambodian populace quite independent of the Taksin angle and has been for a long time. The Cambodians are using this particiular episode, because it is so egregious and they clear proof of it, to make a point they have wanted to make for quite some time with regard to how Thai diplomatic personnel conduct themselves while in Cambodia and how the Thai government conducts itself with respect to its neighbor.

The Thai national in jail will sooner or later be released, that's sort of a foregone conclusion. He's not the one the Cambodian government is upset with; they understand that, while he did violate airport security and the terms of his employment, he was in a tough spot having been directly ordered to do so by his own Embassy, and as far as he personally is concerned they'll be fine with just expelling him from the country. It is the Embassy personnel and the Bangkok government that they want to hold to account and force to behave better in future. If the first Secretary did not hold diplomatic immunity he's be the one in a jail cell.

[khunjamespittman]

Arrested on dubious spying charges, Mum wants Thaksin's intervention, Chavalit going to bring him back...?

Thaksin needs something to make himself look like a hero after that Times interview. This story stinks.

What's dubious? Every soverign government has its on right to determine what is or is not a government secret.

You may not like the decision but I would surmise that you could find many differences with government secrets of any government.

[Insight]

Arrested on dubious spying charges, Mum wants Thaksin's intervention, Chavalit going to bring him back...?

Thaksin needs something to make himself look like a hero after that Times interview. This story stinks.

What's dubious? Every soverign government has its on right to determine what is or is not a government secret.

You may not like the decision but I would surmise that you could find many differences with government secrets of any government.

Fair enough. I'll remember my blindfold the next time I'm at Phnom Penh airport.