Henry Handball

[rixalex]

Sorry but I don't get it. The referee, and I assume the linesman, missed the handball so who would call for the video evidence?

The Irish team?

The Irish manager?

Cos sure as eggs are oval the Froggies ain't going to call for it.

If that was the set up the average game of football would take about five hours while they re-analysed every contested decision or dodgy move.

Wouldn't work like that. Would be limited like they have in tennis where the player can contest a few decisions per set.

Could restrict it to challenging one decision per team, per half of the game - of course if the challenge was correct then they don't lose that challenge. Would be up to either the captain or the manager to decide when to challenge.

[rixalex]

Houllier told BBC Radio 5 live: "He didn't cheat. It was instinctive."

I see. So if something is instictive, it's not considered to be cheating?!

"He didn't cross the ball with his hand, he put the ball in on his foot. It's the referee's error.

It was blocked from the referee's view. That's not the ref making an error, that's a ref physically being unable to see something. You can't give something you didn't see. Turning the blame on the ref in this instance is very unfair. Seems we should blame everyone except for the <deleted> who cheated.

[bkkjames]

If it was the other way around and Les Bleus got rightly eliminated due to an Irish handjob, does anyone beside me think that the game would have been replayed or even easier, an exception was made for them to be the 33rd team.

[mrtoad]

If it was the other way around and Les Bleus got rightly eliminated due to an Irish handjob, does anyone beside me think that the game would have been replayed or even easier, an exception was made for them to be the 33rd team.

Yeah, I'm sure that knob head Platini would have been interfering if that had been the case. However, I still can't see how they could accommodate an extra team, ridiculous request from the FAI.

[bkkjames]

If it was the other way around and Les Bleus got rightly eliminated due to an Irish handjob, does anyone beside me think that the game would have been replayed or even easier, an exception was made for them to be the 33rd team.

Yeah, I'm sure that knob head Platini would have been interfering if that had been the case. However, I still can't see how they could accommodate an extra team, ridiculous request from the FAI.

I agree, don't see the FAI's point in doing this other than to say they tried. (now they can wash there hands of it)

[Sparkles]

Sorry but I don't get it. The referee, and I assume the linesman, missed the handball so who would call for the video evidence?

The Irish team?

The Irish manager?

Cos sure as eggs are oval the Froggies ain't going to call for it.

If that was the set up the average game of football would take about five hours while they re-analysed every contested decision or dodgy move.

Or do you rely on the fourth, or it would be fifth, official watching the game on the telly. Then we have an important match and he gets distracted and misses a crucial incident. Back to square one.

They did try a set up a while back for a European game with extra linesmen at each end of the pitch. For me that would be the better approach except there'd still be the argument over who has the final say.

For sure something has to be done but it has to be made sure the cure isn't worse than the disease.

Its quite simple to resolve this issue and has been used in Australia for many years, in Union and League. Take this contentious decision re Henry. The referee knew as a soon as the ball crossed the line and Given and others came out screaming that they were seriously contesting something.The ref simply asks the man in the video room. "Is there any reason I shouldnt give a goal ?" The official in the box, in the stands,who is an ex referee, would then rewind and say "Henry deliberatley handled the ball .no goal and give Mr Henry a red card. At the same rtime the footage is shown on the big screen which creates huge interest . Justice is done. Now critics will say this takes time ,yes it does, but only seconds not minutes.Right now we see free kick and corners taking an eternity while the ref gets the players back , sorts out the ones that are arm and shirt pulling and wrestling . In Aus all replays is shown on a big screen which I concede is difficult for lower league teams but at least you would not have the tragic events in higher profile games that we had in this world cup qualifier. Did you note the embarrassed look on Gallas's face as he jogged back to the half way line .He had the best view of all and knew thay had committed footballs equivalent of murder..

Unfortuantly until the likes of Platter and Platini and other FIFA dinasours are given the boot and the game is run professionaly football will continue to attract controversy . Relying on players honesty is ,Im afraid, a pipe dream. If the roles were reversed and it was France that missed out this issue would have received far more attention and action in my opinion.

[Sparkles]

Sorry but I don't get it. The referee, and I assume the linesman, missed the handball so who would call for the video evidence?

The Irish team?

The Irish manager?

Cos sure as eggs are oval the Froggies ain't going to call for it.

If that was the set up the average game of football would take about five hours while they re-analysed every contested decision or dodgy move.

Or do you rely on the fourth, or it would be fifth, official watching the game on the telly. Then we have an important match and he gets distracted and misses a crucial incident. Back to square one.

They did try a set up a while back for a European game with extra linesmen at each end of the pitch. For me that would be the better approach except there'd still be the argument over who has the final say.

For sure something has to be done but it has to be made sure the cure isn't worse than the disease.

Its quite simple to resolve this issue and has been used in Australia for many years, in Union and League. Take this contentious decision re Henry. The referee knew as a soon as the ball crossed the line and Given and others came out screaming that they were seriously contesting something.The ref simply asks the man in the video room. "Is there any reason I shouldnt give a goal ?" The official in the box, in the stands,who is an ex referee, would then rewind and say "Henry deliberatley handled the ball .no goal and give Mr Henry a red card. At the same rtime the footage is shown on the big screen which creates huge interest . Justice is done. Now critics will say this takes time ,yes it does, but only seconds not minutes.Right now we see free kick and corners taking an eternity while the ref gets the players back , sorts out the ones that are arm and shirt pulling and wrestling . In Aus all replays is shown on a big screen which I concede is difficult for lower league teams but at least you would not have the tragic events in higher profile games that we had in this world cup qualifier. Did you note the embarrassed look on Gallas's face as he jogged back to the half way line .He had the best view of all and knew thay had committed footballs equivalent of murder..

Unfortuantly until the likes of Platter and Platini and other FIFA dinasours are given the boot and the game is run professionaly football will continue to attract controversy . Relying on players honesty is ,Im afraid, a pipe dream. If the roles were reversed and it was France that missed out this issue would have received far more attention and action in my opinion.

I should have added, and before I get jumped on that this technology, which has been available for years, is only to be used for incidents in the box and balls crossing the goal line. However if other serious incidents do happen, a review panel views the footage the day after the game and any action that is required is immediatly taken. Not like the current situation with the FA who seem to take weeks amd months to deal with an incident. Works a treat in League and Union,why not in our game ????

[bkkjames]

Sparkles, regarding your last point, I would say because if would make the game no longer beautiful, just proper.

[PhilHarries]

Wouldn't work like that. Would be limited like they have in tennis where the player can contest a few decisions per set.

Could restrict it to challenging one decision per team, per half of the game - of course if the challenge was correct then they don't lose that challenge. Would be up to either the captain or the manager to decide when to challenge.

Well that could work although it could be a bit of a lottery with say a team making a challenge on a minor incident and losing then ten minutes later one lik this crops up. We would still have a travesty of a result but at least the odds are reduced.

I did read on today's Telegraph website that they are considering extra officials for the world cup:-

Thierry Henry handball prompts Fifa support for Michel Platini's multi-referee system

Fifa is expected to approve Michel Platini's plan of having five referees at each match of next summer's World Cup finals in response to the Thierry Henry handball controversy against Ireland.

The system, with an extra official behind each goal-line, is being trialled in this season's Europa League.

The proposal would then go to the International Football Association Board – the game's rule-making body – for a vote but it would almost certainly be passed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/...ree-system.html

[Sparkles]

Wouldn't work like that. Would be limited like they have in tennis where the player can contest a few decisions per set.

Could restrict it to challenging one decision per team, per half of the game - of course if the challenge was correct then they don't lose that challenge. Would be up to either the captain or the manager to decide when to challenge.

Well that could work although it could be a bit of a lottery with say a team making a challenge on a minor incident and losing then ten minutes later one lik this crops up. We would still have a travesty of a result but at least the odds are reduced.

I did read on today's Telegraph website that they are considering extra officials for the world cup:-

Thierry Henry handball prompts Fifa support for Michel Platini's multi-referee system

Fifa is expected to approve Michel Platini's plan of having five referees at each match of next summer's World Cup finals in response to the Thierry Henry handball controversy against Ireland.

The system, with an extra official behind each goal-line, is being trialled in this season's Europa League.

The proposal would then go to the International Football Association Board – the game's rule-making body – for a vote but it would almost certainly be passed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/...ree-system.html

Would never work in a million years with teams making challenges or multi referees . The tried and tested system is like I said in my previous posts. Football should not be too proud to embrace what League and Union have done for years. Aditionally when a referee warns a player its broadcast over TV along the lines of "I am booking you for x,y,z, once more your off" Unfortuantly todays footballers seem to hav every little respect for referees and saying "F ...off in the referees face " is not tolerated in other codes and is instant dismal ,thats why they dont do it.

[Sparkles]

Sparkles, regarding your last point, I would say because if would make the game no longer beautiful, just proper.

Not only "proper" but "just" and I dont see anything "beautiful" about the current shirt pulling , arm wrestling and diving. Am I the only one sick of a stiker heading goalwards only to be dragged down in a rugby tackle ? Players not on a yellow card know they will only get a yellow so continue to do it and the game as a spectacle suffers. The game needs cleaning up big time and the current lot of administrators are not capable of implementing change.

The cliche "beautiful game " is fine for promotional purposes but in reality its getting pretty ugly

[rixalex]

Well that could work although it could be a bit of a lottery with say a team making a challenge on a minor incident and losing then ten minutes later one lik this crops up. We would still have a travesty of a result but at least the odds are reduced.

I don't think the teams would be allowed to challenge for minor stuff. Would have to be for important stuff like the awarding of penalties, awarding of red cards, cheating in the run up to a goal.. the sort of thing that can decide a game's outcome.

[citizen33]

I'm another one who has no particular love for Ireland but found this incident depressing. With total predictability the powers that be say that nothing can be done and there are plenty of fans willing to repeat the mantra that bending the rules has always been part of the game. I don't buy that. Blatant cheating of this magnitude doesn't happen too often and doing nothing creates what the economists like to call a perverse incentive. If a player can pull the wool over the eyes of the referee, both the player and team are in the clear - absolutely no downside. That will mean over time that these events become more common. Impractical, unrealistic to act? Nah, I'd have liked a replay at a neutral venue and a ban from the competition for Henry.

Edited December 2, 2009 by citizen33

[rixalex]

Impractical, unrealistic to act? Nah, I'd have liked a replay at a neutral venue and a ban from the competition for Henry.

Impractical? Unrealistic? In my opinion "yes", but i 100% agree with your solution. That would be justice.

[mrbojangles]

Its quite simple to resolve this issue and has been used in Australia for many years, in Union and League. Take this contentious decision re Henry. The referee knew as a soon as the ball crossed the line and Given and others came out screaming that they were seriously contesting something.The ref simply asks the man in the video room. "Is there any reason I shouldnt give a goal ?" The official in the box, in the stands,who is an ex referee, would then rewind and say "Henry deliberatley handled the ball .no goal and give Mr Henry a red card. At the same rtime the footage is shown on the big screen which creates huge interest . Justice is done. Now critics will say this takes time ,yes it does, but only seconds not minutes.

I concur 100% Sparkles and have been an advocate of technology for years. It's one the richest sports on the planet and they are still using ancient methods for refereeing, that lesser sports left behind years ago.

All this cr4p about it spoiling the game is nonsense. As you say it takes seconds. Sure there are things that need ironing out but it would still be alot better than what we currently have. However, some people won't be convinced cos they just don't like change but do they still prefer to do calculations with their abacus.

[salty]

Sparkles point makes sense. But alas FIFA and common sense seem to be strangers.

If some of you guys recall the Confederation Cup in the summer in South Africa. Brazil I think let a 3 goal lead slip against some African team. In the last minute with the score 3-3 one of the African defenders handled in the box. Not seen by Howard Webb who gave a corner but the 4th official alerted him that it should be a penalty having seen it on the monitor. Penalty awarded from which Brazil scored for a 4-3 win. African team ( Algeria/Morocco?) complained to FIFA. That b......cks Blatter said that final decision was incorrect and 4th official should not have intervened. Surely the point was the correct decision was taken.

[WeeGB]

I've watched several Europa League games when I was in the UK, all had 2 extra officials, and still there was incorrect decisions made in the majority of games.

Further to Saltys comments, I understand Blatter has now banned TV monitors from the fourth officials area at the World Cup Finals.

When FIFA decided at the 11th hour, to seed teams in the European play-offs, it was obvious that they were giving larger (or more favoured) countries such as France, Portugal, Russia and Germany (who were possibly going to be involved in the play offs, until they beat Russia and condemned them to two games against the football might of Slovenia), every possible chance of qualifying. In view of this, Ireland had no chance of a fair hearing from FIFA, as the team that Blatter, Platini etc, wanted to qualify had done so, however illegally.

With the high violent crime levels in South Africa, coupled with a transport infrastructure that was abysmal during the recent Confederations Cup, (according to World Soccer magazine's August 2009 issue), it may be that Mr Blatter, who has pushed for the tournament to be held there, will get his comeuppance next summer.

As for Thierry Henry, his career is now destined to be viewed in the same way that Maradona's has been, not by the goals he scored, the titles and cups that he won, but as a cheat, plain and simple.

In my opinion, Henry only owned up, in order to try and protect his lucrative earnings outside of football, from selling razors etc. If you were a multi-national company, looking to further it's brands, would you sponsor a cheat? No, me neither.

[StevieH]

Sparkles, regarding your last point, I would say because if would make the game no longer beautiful, just proper.

Not only "proper" but "just" and I dont see anything "beautiful" about the current shirt pulling , arm wrestling and diving. Am I the only one sick of a stiker heading goalwards only to be dragged down in a rugby tackle ? Players not on a yellow card know they will only get a yellow so continue to do it and the game as a spectacle suffers. The game needs cleaning up big time and the current lot of administrators are not capable of implementing change.

The cliche "beautiful game " is fine for promotional purposes but in reality its getting pretty ugly

there's always been cheating, it's not a new thing. it's just a part of the game. the cliche 'the beautiful game' is the modern development and belongs to the sky sports generation of fan. the game is not supposed to be 'beautiful', it just is what it is.

[rixalex]

the game is not supposed to be 'beautiful', it just is what it is.

Don't care about it being beautiful, i care about it being officiated without glaring mistakes that allow unjust results. It's unnecessary in this day and age. Really don't understand this dogged attachment to keeping things the way they are... living in the past... such a fear of change. Times have moved on. Football needs to too and i believe ultimately will do, no matter how hard the conservatives dig their heels in.

[StevieH]

the game is not supposed to be 'beautiful', it just is what it is.

Don't care about it being beautiful, i care about it being officiated without glaring mistakes that allow unjust results. It's unnecessary in this day and age. Really don't understand this dogged attachment to keeping things the way they are... living in the past... such a fear of change. Times have moved on. Football needs to too and i believe ultimately will do, no matter how hard the conservatives dig their heels in.

it's because i've watched sky sports change the way the game is played and officiated over the last 15 years or so rix, and bringing video replays into the game itself would just make the game yet more dissected, disseminated and over-analysed. it would not improve gameplay nor would it ever 100% iron out mistakes from the game. mistakes which are, incidentally, an intrinsic part of the sport. whether they're made by players or referees.

[Sparkles]

the game is not supposed to be 'beautiful', it just is what it is.

Don't care about it being beautiful, i care about it being officiated without glaring mistakes that allow unjust results. It's unnecessary in this day and age. Really don't understand this dogged attachment to keeping things the way they are... living in the past... such a fear of change. Times have moved on. Football needs to too and i believe ultimately will do, no matter how hard the conservatives dig their heels in.

Yes beauty has always been in the eye of the beholder. For FIFA to do nothing is criminal. They admistrate the game but they dont own it.

[Sparkles]

the game is not supposed to be 'beautiful', it just is what it is.

Don't care about it being beautiful, i care about it being officiated without glaring mistakes that allow unjust results. It's unnecessary in this day and age. Really don't understand this dogged attachment to keeping things the way they are... living in the past... such a fear of change. Times have moved on. Football needs to too and i believe ultimately will do, no matter how hard the conservatives dig their heels in.

Yes beauty has always been in the eye of the beholder. For FIFA to do nothing is criminal. They admistrate the game but they dont own it.

I failed to mention also in video replays, in Aus, in Rugby League .The official in the video replay box is nearly always a retired referee who knows the tricks , the scams etc etc. Now today I believe referees in the EPL are made to retire at 50 ,not that they are senile but because of the the physical aspect. Now these guys are mostly lost to football what better way to use their obvious talents than to have them in the box making crucial decisions on contentious matters and I am not talking about run of the mill incidents. Having seen at first hand the sysetm work for Union and League I am convinced its the way to go

[rixalex]

bringing video replays into the game itself would just make the game yet more dissected, disseminated and over-analysed.

Yet more dissected, disseminated and over-analysed? Don't understand how you think the game already has become more dissected, disseminated and over-analysed.

After the game? Yes. During? I don't think so.

For me the games flow pretty well. Video technology would, i believe, for the most part, if anything improve things in that regard, cos you'd have less of the silly nonsense going on.

[spongeman]

I hope the world cup next year is a complete shambles.

[salty]

spongeman,

Good piece on the Irsih Examiner today. Maybe you do not get de paper.

An awful Sepp in the wrong direction

By Michael Moynihan

Friday, December 04, 2009

CHANCES ARE you still feel a bit queasy, a shade of green inching up around the gills this morning?

We don’t blame you. We’re not referring to Tiger and his texts – there’ll be plenty of time to discuss those in the future, hopefully a better time, a time when we’ll be able to keep our breakfasts down.

No, this week’s sporting-incident-most-likely-to-induce-dry-retching was Sepp Blatter and his giggling yet pompous, sniggering yet sneering, smirking and oily performance during the week at the Soccerex conference, where he ridiculed the FAI’s request to be invited to the World Cup in South Africa next year as the 33rd team.

For one thing, what’s wrong with having 33 teams at the World Cup? It’s no more ridiculous than, say, Sepp ‘Benny Hill’ Blatter’s one-time suggestion that ladies soccer players should wear tighter shorts to "create a more female aesthetic".

For another, it was an outrageous breach of confidentiality. The FAI were correct to point out that they understood their discussions with FIFA were to remain in secret.

Above all, it was a display of putrid bullying unworthy of a primary school playground, holding the FAI up to ridicule when they’re trying to find a way out of a quagmire not of their making.

You have to have huge sympathy for the FAI here. Faced with a staggering mess thanks to the ineptitude of FIFA-appointed officials, if they hadn’t pursued the matter of a replay to the bitter end, they’d have been pilloried for rolling over in the face of FIFA’s decision not to grant a replay.

As they did pursue the matter to the bitter end, they certainly didn’t deserve Sepp Blatter’s nauseating performance on Tuesday, tee-heeing like a schoolchild and inviting everyone behind the bike shed to feast on a juicy secret.

If the preening coxcomb that is the head of FIFA had an ounce of common sense, he would have realised that in negotiations and discussions to resolve thorny problems all scenarios – no matter how unrealistic – must be entertained en route to a resolution. Thus the Irish suggestion that the boys in green would be a 33rd team, which no doubt was one of several options thrown onto the table for discussion.

As for the fact that the discussions were to remain secret... words fail us. Almost.

The subsequent Blatter apology holds no water for this columnist. The Swiss could find nothing better to do earlier in the week than offer his best impression of a catty extra in the Lindsay Lohan movie ‘Mean Girls’.

(On second thoughts, apologies to Lindsay for involving her in this, and scratch that comparison).

It’s not as if Sepp has blue skies overhead. He presides over an organisation which harbours such beauties as his vice-president, Jack Warner of Trinidad and Tobago, whose son made huge profits on the sale of thousands of tickets for the 2006 World Cup.

Also, sharp-eyed readers may have noted recent reports of a wide-ranging match-fixing scam which stretches from China to Europe, a scam which saw 15 people arrested in Germany in recent weeks; authorities believe up to 200 people may be implicated and that more than €10 million is involved. Sepp didn’t have many jokes to make about that, even though it was due to be discussed at the same meeting which dealt with the Thierry Henry handball controversy.

Well, the great man was busy at Soccerex 2009 earlier this week. If you want a flavour of proceedings there, try this from the conference programme for last Monday, from 5pm to 6pm: "Bundesliga Happy Hour: Networking break with complimentary drinks, sponsored by the Bundesliga."

Finally, it’s customary to ridicule Blatter at every opportunity for his past presidency of the World Society of Friends of Suspenders, an organisation devoted to ladies underwear.

On this particular occasion we’ll take the high moral ground, though. Sepp is well able to provide fresher material for ridicule.

Edited December 9, 2009 by MiG16
source for article added, and text put in quotes. thanks Moss! - MiG16

[spongeman]

Thanks for that Salty.

France drew South Africa ............

That is the final nail in the World Cup Coffin.

[rixalex]

Sepp Blatter and his giggling yet pompous, sniggering yet sneering, smirking and oily performance during the week at the Soccerex conference, where he ridiculed the FAI's request to be invited to the World Cup in South Africa next year as the 33rd team.

Words fail me with this individual.

[MiG16]

salty - can you provide link and source of that article please?

cheers

[Jockstar]

FIFA have granted their permission for a replay of the last half of the extra time section of Wednesday night's game to take place in the Stade du France.

Ireland will be playing right to left.

Check out the Stadium??

[Mossfinn]

salty - can you provide link and source of that article please?

cheers

Irish Examiner

There you go Miggy