Chinese Medicine

[eek]

Just been given a recommendation at the Health Forum to go see Dr. Wang at the Chinese dispensary at Gat Luang.

Anyone tried him out, or any other Chinese Doctor?

Do you have good faith in Chinese Medicine?

Interested to hear your views.

Thanks.

[Thailand]

Not used it here but in HK & China where I have had acupressure & acupuncture, both very effective.

Also used some medicines for injuries like cuts and burns again very effective- Yunnan Paiyao was the English translation.

[zzaa09]

Traditional healing practices {worldwide} have been around, successfully, for thousands of years - must be something to it. Mind, Body, Spirit.

[anonymouse]

I wouldn't recommend it for chronic problems but for less serious complaints like dermititus etc it seems to have a very good track record.

[amexpat]

"Faith" is the operative word.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I wouldn't recommend it for chronic problems but for less serious complaints like dermititus etc it seems to have a very good track record.

Just clarifying. I think most people knew what you mean but just in case.

I think you meant to say not recommended for Acute problems.

Acute = Having a rapid onset and following a short but severe course. Severe pain and symptom intensity.

Chronic means a symptom or disorder that has been in evidence for sometime.

Chronic =Of long duration; continuing or lasting for a long period of time or marked by frequent recurrence

So if you have a chronic sinus, skin or allergy problem (long term) then Chinese medicine can be very helpful.

If you have a Acute appendicitis, aggressive infection or internal bleeding then go to the hospital ASAP

[anonymouse]

I wouldn't recommend it for chronic problems but for less serious complaints like dermititus etc it seems to have a very good track record.

Just clarifying. I think most people knew what you mean but just in case.

I think you meant to say not recommended for Acute problems.

Acute = Having a rapid onset and following a short but severe course. Severe pain and symptom intensity.

Chronic means a symptom or disorder that has been in evidence for sometime.

Chronic =Of long duration; continuing or lasting for a long period of time or marked by frequent recurrence

So if you have a chronic sinus, skin or allergy problem (long term) then Chinese medicine can be very helpful.

If you have a Acute appendicitis, aggressive infection or internal bleeding then go to the hospital ASAP

That's what I meant

[Thongkorn]

The UK is trying to ban Chinese remedies, OR legislate them , There has been numerous deaths caused because of unregulated medicines, People tend to take Chinese medicines along with proscribed drugs causing over doses and poisoning.

[nakachalet]

cobrasnake

thx for the refreshing explanations with probable examples. my mom a western style trained midwifery also on many occasions used chinese herbs for less.... acute....? lol .... conditions

Edited November 21, 2009 by nakachalet

[FolkGuitar]

Chinese 'medicine' is like ALL medicine... Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. That's not because it relies upon drugs, herbs or needles. It's because some medical problems respond best to one type of treatment or another. This is the basis for the newer 'holistic' health clinics that are springing up around the world. Clinics that have Western, Chinese, Ayurvedic, etc., practitioners all together under one roof.

Chinese medicine works.

Western medicine works.

Ayurvedic medicine works.

Chiropractic medicine works.

They just ALL don't work for the same problem. (And this assumes that you are being treated by a properly trained health care worker. Organ transplants are best left to professionals.)

Over the years I found that if I went to a Chinese medical clinic (I use 'Monkala' in Chiang Mai,) I would often feel as if I was almost re-born after their treatments, be they acupuncture or herbals. But sometimes I had to go to a Western doctor and get Western style meds to cure a problem I was having as the Chinese cures didn't cure! After a while I seem to have an intuitive knowledge which sort of medicine would take care of which sort of problem.

[femi fan]

The UK is trying to ban Chinese remedies, OR legislate them , There has been numerous deaths caused because of unregulated medicines, People tend to take Chinese medicines along with proscribed drugs causing over doses and poisoning.

In the states, regulated and prescribed medicines are the fourth biggest killer of american people. The FDA there do their level best to obliterate alternative health practices.

No doubt too in the UK, plenty of people die from prescribed pills.

And i think all alternative suppliers of medicines always advise to talk through things with their doctor first.

The UK, and the US, and the EU, are also trying to get hold of vitamins and herbs and make them prescription only. One should keep an eye on the pharmaceutical industry, for they are quite harmful to many people's health. It's one of the reasons a growing number of people wish to use chinese, ayurvedic, and other health systems. But the trouble is, none of them can make any claims of cures, since laws have been passed to stop this.

Thus the peoples of the world cannot get their hands on properly trustworthy information when it comes to health, and cannot make their own informed decisions. That's why a certain 'faith' has to come into it.

[IanForbes]

I think folkguitar said it best. There is No one cure for all ailments. I KNOW that chiropractic manipulation works when doctor's methods don't. But, it's not a cure all for every problem as some practioners whould have you believe. I would have to say the same is true for Chinese medicine. Fortunately, I have a strong immune system and don't suffer from any ailments other than a chronic back problem that is under control. I've had accupucture and don't know if it worked or not.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

A signficant element of healing is believing. Even western science recognizes the importance of emotions for healing.

If a person believes something is going to work then it often does. In science its called the placebo effect and often accounts for 20 to 50 % of results.

When a person has a good emotional state their immune system is working to its potential. Some believe that quieting the mind is one of the best medicines.

Yoga, meditation, contemplation, exercise etc are common ways to quiet and calm the mind.

If a person believes for example that eating meat is poison or murder and they eat meat then their immune systems tend to operate at an disadvantage.

The Dalai Lama for example believes its okay to eat meat and he does not seem to suffer ill effects. Many Monks in Thailand would disagree with that dietary belief.

Western medicines do tend to perform better in double blind scientific experiments. Unfortunately a lot of these treatments just treat the symptoms and often cause other homeostatic inbalances and side effects.

Like Folkguitar I would not look at the question of what type of medicine is best. That is like picking Christianity over Buddhism as the only path to God. Just as there are many paths to spiritual awareness there are also many paths to health. There are many paths to everything in life.

[anonymouse]

A signficant element of healing is believing. Even western science recognizes the importance of emotions for healing.

If a person believes something is going to work then it often does. In science its called the placebo effect and often accounts for 20 to 50 % of results.

There's a very interesting chapter on placebo in the book Bad Medicine by Ben Goldacre, the whole book is pretty good on debunking some of the myths regarding alternative medicines.

[coolxten]

When i lived in China, I found some of the advice the doctors gave were a little odd. When I was sick with a sore throat, I was told not to eat any watermelon, and not to have a fan directly hitting me while I recovered. I think these are cultural myths, my Chinese co-workers agreed with the advice. Although, I realize not letting wind directly hiting you is linked to why some ride their motobike with their jackets backwards. I'm not sure why they don't just zip up the front.... For the watermelon, I felt that helped with my sore throat.

[amexpat]

When i lived in China, I found some of the advice the doctors gave were a little odd. When I was sick with a sore throat, I was told not to eat any watermelon, and not to have a fan directly hitting me while I recovered. I think these are cultural myths

I've been told the same right here in CM. A pharmacist cautioned against the fan.

I suspect the case against watermelon is that it makes you crazy horny when you should be resting.

[Drew Aitch]

I went to this large Chinese Pharmacy in George Town Penang some years back. I had an unknown irritation on my big toe that seemed to be getting bigger, sorer, and redder with each passing day. The 'Quack' for want of a better word, gave me a little plastic bag with some dried spiders legs inside . He promised me that if i roll a spider's leg over the affected area twice a day until it crumbled, the toe would be back to full health within a week.

like a <deleted>, i followed his instructions and watched the infection get deeper and more painful as time went by. It eventually split and started to bleed and seep an off-green slimy snot-like goo It was then that I went to a conventional clinic and got it cleaned and dressed properly and put on a course of antibiotics (and other pills), for what turned out to be some kind or worm that had bore under the skin.

Maybe if ole matey boy at the shop of curious cures had remembered to cast a spell over the dead spiders legs before selling them to me, then I wouldn't have needed the 'real' treatment. Hmm!

[keo]

Do I have faith in Chinese medicine?

Yeah, faith that it's going to help wipe out some species of animals over the coming century.

Tiger penis? Bear bile?

Give me a f*cking break.

[nakachalet]

keo

come on now....

your inconsiderate comments will put many world renown chinese restaurants in shienghai and beijing out of high caliber clienteles.... lol

did you not know that a plate of bear paw costs over 1,500 usd.... lol and the white chinese wine for the occasion is additional.... lol

and the tiger penis.... did you say?

well, that depends on the size and the thickness.... sir

and how would you like it prepared sir....?

rare or medium rare.... or would you like it sauteed in XO first.... sir?

a round table of 10 to 12 persons would be able to apportion and enjoy the delicacy nicely.... sir

and the price sir? oh.... if you have to ask.... then probably you should not order it at this time sir.... lol

my brother in law, when he was alive, bless his soul.... these were his favorite things in hongkong.... lol and i was a freckled face teen then....

[Drew Aitch]

Do I have faith in Chinese medicine?

Yeah, faith that it's going to help wipe out some species of animals over the coming century.

Tiger penis? Bear bile?

Give me a f*cking break.

Ha ha lol - :D :D Thanks for the laugh. Now i'm sure there are some things, especially herbal, that do work in the treatment of common ills and conditions, but keo is right. All this culling and abusing of animals (often in a very cruel way), just to profit from some ancient hocus-pocus miracle cure, is nothing short of outrageous. Man's inhumanity to man is bad enough, but when so called animal lovers or pretty chicks plaster their face with decorative makeup or anti aging creams that have been tested on animals through torturous methods, it can't help but make me think that our species, the Homo sapien, is little more than a jumped up monkey. with more animal instinct residing in the mind that many of us would give credit to.

Aitch

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

How do you brainiacs think pharmaceutical drugs get developed and tested? Animal testing perhaps? Okay they are not endangered species but cruel and inhumane none the less.

The exotic animal parts of Chinese medicine are common but a small minority of treatments. Go to the big chinese pharmacy in Chiang Mai and they don't have tiger penis and bear bile etc.

Anyway stop trying to tar paper a beneficial alternative for some ailments with your holier than thou I am for the animals theme.

BTW the pharmaceuticals bio accumulate in the water system etc. So when your neighbor takes estrogen replacement therapy and squirts out a wiz then it goes back into the water/food/soil system and no sorry the water treatment does not remove it. Maybe that is why so many men are getting man boobs.

Edited November 23, 2009 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[Drew Aitch]

CobraSnakeNecktie, you do have a point of course and we are only living as long as w e do (in many cases), by running many trials and long periods of testing on animals, as the beasts are considered less important than we humans, If that wasn't the case, we ourselves, and our children, would be in the labs for new and potentially dangerous experiments, and that in itself would be inhumane based on the 'unknown' factor.

But I think the above remarks are more geared toward the hocus pocus, totally ridiculous and unnecessary 'old wives tales' that people believe in, and are prepared to invest in, regardless of the cruelty conducted on animals. And for what? To to satisfy the demand for fantasy medicines from modern day tree hugging, fish eating vegetarians (whatever they are) in society.

I mean c'mon, tiger bone wine as a cure for arthritis, rheumatism, dysentery, ulcers, and then there's the grinding the bones to a power to help man to gain strength? (What's wrong with the gym?) Deer sinew and tendons are regarded as cures for rheumatism too.

Then there's rhinoceros horn, bear gall bladders and other animal products which allegedly calm the nerves, increase intelligence (look out Einstein, here we come!), and cure dysentery!

The list could go on and on to include all sorts of Witch Doctor mystical cures derived from some neolithic beliefs.

Here's a few others I dug up but they don't even skim the surface of the real problem with cruelty and make-believe cures.

• Menstruation problems: anteater scales.
  
• Severe, chronic headaches: owl.
  
• Fever: turtle shells, rhinoceros horns.
  
• Male infertility: bulls's genitals, snake blood, otter.
  
• Chronic scabies: fox.
  
• Rheumatic pain: brain of the sloth.
  
• Flatulence: wild cat.
  
• Upset stomach: tiger's stomach.
  
• Severe heart and abdominal pains: civet glands.
  
• Constipation: musk deer, otter.
  
• Cough: ground bones of the Chinese badger in wine.
  
• Blood in the sputum: Chinese badger fat.
  
• Dysentery: soup of jackal skin or wild dog skin.
  
• Malaria: tiger meat or skin.
  
• Backaches: snake blood.
  
• Scrofula (a form of tuberculosis characterized by swellings of the lymphatic glands): tiger's testes.
  

Like I said previously, there's nothing wrong with herbals remedies or even swinging crystals if you think they might do some good. Hypnotherapy doesn't hurt anything either, other than your pocket, and the same goes for acupuncture, but there's a lot of silly belief in the unknown and unproved alternative medicine scams that have evolved into a multibillion dollar business (see the spiders legs rip-off above)

And the other thing is this: who really knows the true ingredients of these so called herbal pills and potions? I once bought 400 herbal sleeping pills for 450 Baht. Surely is they were just dried and crunched up common leaves of a readily available herb, then the 99 Baht would have been a more realistic price which still gave a healthy profit to the seller. I took 2 as prescribed. Nothing! Next night I took 4. Nothing. Being herbal and 'safe' I took 10 capsules the night after that. Again, nothing! On day 4 I slung the bloody lot and promised myself never to get sucked into to one of the biggest health scams on the planet ever again.

Of course, the above is just my opinion and I'm entitled to it. If your think that a glass of warm monkey blood will turn an infertile woman into a breeding machine, or the beak of a parrot will put 4 inches onto the size of your ole pecker, then you go for it, as your beliefs belong to you (whoever you are), but best not try to push such things to those with medical conditions that require conventional cures and treatments which are proven to work.

Aitch

Edited November 24, 2009 by Drew Aitch

[Ulysses G.]

the beak of a parrot will put 4 inches onto the size of your ole pecker

Does anyone know where to buy parrot beak from parrots that died naturally?

[rabcbroon]

The UK is trying to ban Chinese remedies, OR legislate them , There has been numerous deaths caused because of unregulated medicines, People tend to take Chinese medicines along with proscribed drugs causing over doses and poisoning.

True - but this is because many quacks have set up shop there and they have been taking the p*ss out of joe public who doesn't have clue as to what constitutes herbs. During a recent survey it was found that many younger brits could not even identify a cabbage or a broccoli.

In china it works well as people know what is what!

[anonymouse]

the beak of a parrot will put 4 inches onto the size of your ole pecker

Does anyone know where to buy parrot beak from parrots that died naturally?

There was a dead sparrow in my garden the other day, not sure if this would add or detract to your size, pm me if interested

[toptuan]

"Faith" is the operative word.

Au contraire, monsieur..."Fact" should be the operative word in this discussion.

After 10 years and $10,000+ of attempted diagnosis and unsuccessful treatment for TMJ (a painful jaw dysfunction), a $2.50 bottle of little black pills from a Chinese doctor, taken over two weeks, permanently cured me.

[nakachalet]

Drew Aitch

Like I said previously, there's nothing wrong with herbals remedies or even swinging crystals if you think they might do some good. Hypnotherapy doesn't hurt anything either, other than your pocket, and the same goes for acupuncture,

-------

i would like to take a very strong exception against just what you said above....

just exactly what do you know about ACUPUNCTURE....?

do you ever take an acupuncture class or exam where you and the rest of other students are required to study and pass anatomy and physiology tests....?

and the reference texts and charts and diagrams are written in english and by GREY'S....? and it is the same textbook used for reference in most premed classes....

drew, you are quite correct in other statements but for this one.... pls better leave it alone.... even if you already took and passed anatomy and physiology with flying color.... you would surely proudly admit that it was not quite an easy task for any one, won't you?

acupuncture has also been used in certain surgery in western medical hospitals as i recalled, after nixon sneaked into and visited china.... so many years ago....

no harm done, right, friend?

Edited November 24, 2009 by nakachalet

[amexpat]

"Faith" is the operative word.

Au contraire, monsieur..."Fact" should be the operative word in this discussion.

After 10 years and $10,000+ of attempted diagnosis and unsuccessful treatment for TMJ (a painful jaw dysfunction), a $2.50 bottle of little black pills from a Chinese doctor, taken over two weeks, permanently cured me.

On TMJ therapy:

"If phase III therapy fails, psychological counseling is advised to identify stresses, and patients are referred to a" ..........

To a, to a,....... Chinese doctor, of course!

Glad it worked for you. Keep the Faith and don't let Facts get in the way.

[Drew Aitch]

just exactly what do you know about ACUPUNCTURE....?

It's true, i'm no expert in any of the above (herbs, crystals, tiny needles or swinging pocket watches). The main discussion is based on the ideology and justification in the cruelty and sometimes slow slaughter of animals to cure and treat some of the most ridiculous ailments going. Complaints such as pecker power achieved from the bones of endangered species, the blinking eye of a Baboon rubbed onto a tropical ulcer to reduce inflammation and assist healing. Plus all the rest of this alternative claptrap that the 'new age environmentalists' seem to be embracing with a passion.

Heck, the world of alternative medicine and treatments even sees humans murdered for the selfish needs of others such as the African Albinos. These poor people are slaughtered for their skin, organs, and bones. It's not unusual to find their rotting corpses in ditches minus tongues, genitals, breasts, flesh and certain skeletal parts. Why? Well, the body parts of these people are believed to provide miracle cures for common ills and to bring good luck and fortune to those who buy the hands, heads, eyes, fingers, or whatever body part they need for whatever problem(s) they're having. Like i said, mankind is little more than a jumped up monkey with more animal instinct in our being that we care to believe.

With reference to your point above about my authority, or lack of it, regarding acupuncture, i have tried many of these health alternatives, but to no avail. You've probably read about the bogus sleeping capsules I mentioned (although i'm sure there are some of you that swear such products knock you out!), and the spiders legs for the toe infection!

I also tried hypnotherapy once to help with smoking cessation but to no avail (Nicotine patches worked a treat though). I once had acupuncture for the treatment of tension headaches by a registered acupuncturist that had a surgery set-up in her Bkk condo. No luck! My overweight buddy also had a course of treatment with the same lady for weight loss. She said that acupuncture would help speed up his metabolic rate and change his attitude towards eating. He's since put on 12 additional kilos and her solution was that he probably needed to extend his 12 sessions to 24.

I understand that there is a supposed exact science behind acupuncture, and hypnotherapy, and even the Thai foot massage, and although the latter 2 can be relaxing, i don't think that any of the 3 examples above do much in the way of curing ills any more than a make-believe god or prayer can cure someone of a termincal illness. I can appreciate the comfort that some folks can take from belief and faith of the supernatural, spiritual, and the plain unknown, but all i'm saying is that i don't buy into any of it after trying various options. I would be surprised if i was in a minority here!

Crystals, needles, and healing hands used as alternative forms of treatment is one thing, but the slaughter and torture of animals for cosmetics and voodoo cures though, is sick, sick, sick, IMO.

Many of these alternative beliefs stem back 1000's of years, yet most are still not recognised as cures and treatments by the WHO. Surely there's a reason for that?

Aitch

Edited November 24, 2009 by Drew Aitch

[anonymouse]

just exactly what do you know about ACUPUNCTURE....?

It's true, i'm no expert in any of the above (herbs, crystals, tiny needles or swinging pocket watches). The main discussion is based on the ideology and justification in the cruelty and sometimes slow slaughter of animals to cure and treat some of the most ridiculous ailments going. Complaints such as pecker power achieved from the bones of endangered species, the blinking eye of a Baboon rubbed onto a tropical ulcer to reduce inflammation and assist healing. Plus all the rest of this alternative claptrap that the 'new age environmentalists' seem to be embracing with a passion.

Heck, the world of alternative medicine and treatments even sees humans murdered for the selfish needs of others such as the African Albinos. These poor people are slaughtered for their skin, organs, and bones. It's not unusual to find their rotting corpses in ditches minus tongues, genitals, breasts, flesh and certain skeletal parts. Why? Well, the body parts of these people are believed to provide miracle cures for common ills and to bring good luck and fortune to those who buy the hands, heads, eyes, fingers, or whatever body part they need for whatever problem(s) they're having. Like i said, mankind is little more than a jumped up monkey with more animal instinct in our being that we care to believe.

With reference to your point above about my authority, or lack of it, regarding acupuncture, i have tried many of these health alternatives, but to no avail. You've probably read about the bogus sleeping capsules I mentioned (although i'm sure there are some of you that swear such products knock you out!), and the spiders legs for the toe infection!

I also tried hypnotherapy once to help with smoking cessation but to no avail (Nicotine patches worked a treat though). I once had acupuncture for the treatment of tension headaches by a registered acupuncturist that had a surgery set-up in her Bkk condo. No luck! My overweight buddy also had a course of treatment with the same lady for weight loss. She said that acupuncture would help speed up his metabolic rate and change his attitude towards eating. He's since put on 12 additional kilos and her solution was that he probably needed to extend his 12 sessions to 24.

I understand that there is a supposed exact science behind acupuncture, and hypnotherapy, and even the Thai foot massage, and although the latter 2 can be relaxing, i don't think that any of the 3 examples above do much in the way of curing ills any more than a make-believe god or prayer can cure someone of a termincal illness. I can appreciate the comfort that some folks can take from belief and faith of the supernatural, spiritual, and the plain unknown, but all i'm saying is that i don't buy into any of it after trying various options. I would be surprised if i was in a minority here!

Crystals, needles, and healing hands used as alternative forms of treatment is one thing, but the slaughter and torture of animals for cosmetics and voodoo cures though, is sick, sick, sick, IMO.

Many of these alternative beliefs stem back 1000's of years, yet most are still not recognised as cures and treatments by the WHO. Surely there's a reason for that?

Aitch

This is an interesting topic and I wonder if the OP has decided to try Chinese Medicine or not

I also have my doubts about certain branches of alterntative medicine but as a student of Chinese Martial Arts I have in interest in Chinese Medicine and believe it's holistic view on health is a lot better than its western counterpart.

Placebo or not Acupuncture does work for certain complaints and is fairly safe.

Most Chinese herbal medicine does not use animal parts and is again safe, there might be adverse side effects if taken with western medicines but any Chinese Herbalist of repute will ask you about other medication you are taking.

I'd also like to point out that Western Medicine combined with the wrong food can cause adverse effects as well.

From a study in 1994 there were 106,000 fatal events occuring in U.S. hospitals from adverse drug reactions making these reactions between the fourth and sixth leading cause of death in the U.S. This was a report that studied only events that occured from correctly administered drugs.

I think that Western & Chinese Medicine both have there places and these days with the amount of documentation available to us through the internet or elsewhere we can make our own informed choices of what to take or not take.