Us Citizens Warned Of Possible Violence In Chiang Mai On Sunday

[Publicus]

The warning by the US Government is significant in the context of the threat to the life of the PM coming out of Chiang Mai, so the warning is not the stock boilerplate CYA statement by DEPSTATE. This warning, due to the nature of the threat in Chiang Mai, has been cleared by Sec Clinton and by the National Security Council SE Asia & Thailand Section at the White House. It unmistakably is the recommendation of the US Embassy to Washington. This did not come as a routine government CYA statement because of some flower power street walk, nor did it come from some junior bureaucrat at the Thailand Desk in the bowels of DEPSTATE.

The government needs to clear out the rat's nest in Chiang Mai, which also would make clear what would happen should anyone get any ideas about trying the same in Bangkok and elsewhere.

Edited November 26, 2009 by Publicus

[frodo]

6,000 'Ping Pong' bombs found at home of Chiang Mai Red Shirt guard

He argued that he bought the bombs for selling during the Loy Krathong festival in early November, but the bombs police confiscated remained unsold.

-- TNA 2009/11/26

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Right. 6,000 homemade bombs for Loy Krathong.

[webfact]

PM Decides to Cancel Trip to Chiang Mai

UPDATE : 26 November 2009

Bowing to pressure for him not to go, PM Abhisit Vejjajiva has decided to scrap plans to visit Chiang Mai province, the stronghold of the red-shirt group, this Sunday.

Earlier, the Thai Chamber of Commerce issued a letter asking the PM not to attend the meeting on fears of his safety.

There was also reports of a discovery of a cache of bombs belonging to a red-shirt security guard this morning.

Both Deputy PM Suthep Thaugsuban and Defense Minister General Prawit Wongsuwan also voiced opposition towards the planned visit.

-- Tan Network 2009/11/26

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[slapout]

Have to agree with Publicus on his last paragraph, especially. Where did the old CM go? Parades were the school kids going around the moat and leaving one traffic lane open, or special event parades (non political) How many times will they feed the rats before someone declares them a menace. Where is the picture with the accused, evidence/contraband and the police pointing the accusing finger?

[Stumbo]

Why disrupt the peace... Stay home Mr. Abhisit! Please.

Why? Because Chiang Mai is a major city in Thailand and he is PM of Thailand. If he can never go there, this country will have surrendered to terrorists. It is outrageous to blame Abhisit for the actions of these wannabe murderers. What is the PM of this country supposed to do? Hide in a bunker? BTW, disrupt what peace exactly? Do other people agree with me that the people caught with these bombs are terrorists? If not, what are they? If the worst case happens and an organized civil war develops here, with formal armies on both sides, where soldiers are fighting soldiers, that is civil war. These bombers are not soldiers in an army on a side in a war, they are something different.

Maybe my memory is failing me, but this guy was never elected PM, the army did a paid deal for him after getting rid of the one that was elected. As Al Gore would say an inconvenient truth. Yes the threats are sick and imbecile, but he would never be welcome in CM regardless. Never mind just impose martial law again.

As to Americans in Chiang Mai, ha ha, might I suggest they have more to fear at home with the fascists back there now in control and the economy collapsing. Never mind just keep printing money and pay off banker mate debts. How the mighty have fallen. For all Thailand's faults at least Goldman Sachs isn't running the country for personal profit.

[ChouDoufu]

the headline seems somewhat misleading. i understand this was a warning posted on the us state

department site, but there does not appear to be any specific threats to 'merkans. this should have

been just a general advisory, not sure why state decided to include 'us citizens' three times.

[btw stumbo, we got rid of the fascists last election, now we have to live with the socialists.]

[Jingthing]

Why disrupt the peace... Stay home Mr. Abhisit! Please.

Why? Because Chiang Mai is a major city in Thailand and he is PM of Thailand. If he can never go there, this country will have surrendered to terrorists. It is outrageous to blame Abhisit for the actions of these wannabe murderers. What is the PM of this country supposed to do? Hide in a bunker? BTW, disrupt what peace exactly? Do other people agree with me that the people caught with these bombs are terrorists? If not, what are they? If the worst case happens and an organized civil war develops here, with formal armies on both sides, where soldiers are fighting soldiers, that is civil war. These bombers are not soldiers in an army on a side in a war, they are something different.

Maybe my memory is failing me, but this guy was never elected PM, the army did a paid deal for him after getting rid of the one that was elected. As Al Gore would say an inconvenient truth. Yes the threats are sick and imbecile, but he would never be welcome in CM regardless. Never mind just impose martial law again.

As to Americans in Chiang Mai, ha ha, might I suggest they have more to fear at home with the fascists back there now in control and the economy collapsing. Never mind just keep printing money and pay off banker mate debts. How the mighty have fallen. For all Thailand's faults at least Goldman Sachs isn't running the country for personal profit.

Duh! NOBODY is elected Thai PM by direct popular votes. It is a parliamentary system. Abhisit rose to power through a COALITION of parties, a typical way for leaders to be chosen in parliamentary systems. Under the current laws, he is a completely legitimate PM. Of course, the reds are frustrated and as they have lost power their frustration is understandable. The reds have every right to feel he is not legitimate but they have no right to throw bombs. As an American I have an inkling how the reds feel, I never considered George Bush a legitimately elected president. However, that does NOT justify terrorism in my book. Apparently it does in the views of some of the Takki apologists here.

Edited November 26, 2009 by Jingthing

[h90]

Why disrupt the peace... Stay home Mr. Abhisit! Please.

Why? Because Chiang Mai is a major city in Thailand and he is PM of Thailand. If he can never go there, this country will have surrendered to terrorists. It is outrageous to blame Abhisit for the actions of these wannabe murderers. What is the PM of this country supposed to do? Hide in a bunker? BTW, disrupt what peace exactly? Do other people agree with me that the people caught with these bombs are terrorists? If not, what are they? If the worst case happens and an organized civil war develops here, with formal armies on both sides, where soldiers are fighting soldiers, that is civil war. These bombers are not soldiers in an army on a side in a war, they are something different.

Maybe my memory is failing me, but this guy was never elected PM, the army did a paid deal for him after getting rid of the one that was elected. As Al Gore would say an inconvenient truth. Yes the threats are sick and imbecile, but he would never be welcome in CM regardless. Never mind just impose martial law again.

As to Americans in Chiang Mai, ha ha, might I suggest they have more to fear at home with the fascists back there now in control and the economy collapsing. Never mind just keep printing money and pay off banker mate debts. How the mighty have fallen. For all Thailand's faults at least Goldman Sachs isn't running the country for personal profit.

Yes your memory is failing you!

PM don't get elected in the general elections in Thailand, neither Thaksin, nor Samak, Somchai or Abhisit.

They get elected in the Parliament. Samak and Somchai got elected by parties who promised at their campaign that they would not do it, so they really faked their voters.

Later they changed coalition together with some formerly bought parties. (Just remember TRT/PPP was not a solid party, it bought several other parties).

While it is pretty disgusting that these small parties without any ideology or program just make the coalition wherever they expect more profit (in both PPP and Democrat coalition) it is not undemocratic.

[mca]

Why disrupt the peace... Stay home Mr. Abhisit! Please.

Why? Because Chiang Mai is a major city in Thailand and he is PM of Thailand. If he can never go there, this country will have surrendered to terrorists. IWhat is the PM of this country supposed to do? Hide in a bunker?

Where do you stand on Somchai Wongsawat being the PM and having to do a runner then? That bloke got more exercise than a Kenyan Marathon competitor!

[tomahawk]

Actually I have several red shirts. I bought some of them with me from America when I first came to Thailand. One was a gift from my daughter and another is fairly expensive, so I continue to wear them despite all this political crap and have never encountered any problem. Actually no one seems to pay any attention to the shirts, probably because I definitely do not look Thai and do not attend any political rallies. I would not, however, intentionally wear red, or yellow for that matter, to anyplace where there was expected to be a mob demonstration as that is asking for trouble. I have been in riots during my career in US and know that in that situation the mob would just randomly attack anyone wearing the wrong color. However, the fact is I like red shirts and am not planning to throw them away over this nonsense. I will just stay away from mob gatherings.

[IvanDobsky]

the headline seems somewhat misleading. i understand this was a warning posted on the us state

department site, but there does not appear to be any specific threats to 'merkans. this should have

been just a general advisory, not sure why state decided to include 'us citizens' three times.

[btw stumbo, we got rid of the fascists last election, now we have to live with the socialists.]

socialists? the Democrats put the UK's right of centre parties in the shade. I would suggest you guys haven't had a socialist since Teddy Roosevelt (?)but now I'm off topic

I'm happy to see that Abhisit isn't going to CM as this would have given the red mob an excuse for another riot. The only way to deal with them is to continue arresting and prosecuting people with illegal weapons.

Also, surely it is illegal to encourage the assassination of the PM? Can that charming radio DJ not be arrested for sedition/incitement to murder? Or won't the radio station release the tapes?

I live in the north but I'll not be making the trip to CM to stock up on festive essentials this year. Sorry Rim Ping!

[geriatrickid]

It seems to me that someone with 6,000 explosive devices is a possible terrorist. Yes, a terrorist if the intent was to throw the explosive devices at a crowd and cause a panic. If one wants to make excuses for this person, then how about acknowledging that he is a negligent selfish prick? What would have happened if the building where these explosive devices were kept had been subject to a fire? There would have been quite an explosion. Oh let me guess, the explosive material was stored in a safe manner. Must be a nice feeling to be a neighbor of this guy. It is obvious that such people do not care about the safety of others. People that are a danger to society and that intend to inflict physical harm are usually locked up in a prison and I hope that's where he will be sent, for a long time.

[Jingthing]

Does anyone know what kind of prison term a convicted terrorist gets here in Thailand?

[TPI]

Why disrupt the peace... Stay home Mr. Abhisit! Please.

And toady to the criminal element of CM. No way, he should go mob-handed and crack any heads that cause trouble. As the leader of Thailand he should be free to travel where ever in safety and not be threatened with violent acts by anyone whatever their political views.

Hear, hear!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Does anyone know what kind of prison term a convicted terrorist gets here in Thailand?

I have no clue whatsoever. Now, at the risk of getting back on topic:

Why disrupt the peace... Stay home Mr. Abhisit! Please.

And toady to the criminal element of CM. No way,

Way!

PM Decides to Cancel Trip to Chiang Mai

And, only a day or two after I wondered why people were STILL whiny even after the Bangkok rally was postponed, let me take a different stance and sincerely thank Mr. Abhisit for defusing the situation. Both parties give some and take some and I think this is good, especially in the days leading up to the national holiday. So a sincere 'Thank You' to Abhisit; credit where credit is due.

[femi fan]

This kind of anarchy and lawlessness show the true face of Thailand and also the lack of police discipline to enforce the law. It shows the people join the police for their own benefit and not the public[/size][/font]

Oh, give over, the true face of thailand. What bloody bullshit you speak of.

I don't agree with all these red shirts and so on, but is it not a sign of democracy if people can protest? I know the US is quite well-known for snuffing out protests by the people with particularly overzealous police, while pretending they have a democracy.

Since thaksin came and went, thai people have shown that they have the power to protest. I think that's just perfectly democratic and dandy. If the politicians sort themselves out, perhaps the protests will disappear.

If you want to talk about anarchy and lawlessness, start with the politicians. Don't blame the people if they want to complain.

Having said all that, i personally am really bored and disappointed with all this red and yellow nonsense, but i do understand it is a reflection of thailand being at a critical crossroads for its future at this moment in time. Like thaksin or not, he's lit the torch for reforms that will hopefully take the country forwards in the coming years.

Just merge the two sides and create a unified orange brigade...

[femi fan]

As to Americans in Chiang Mai, ha ha, might I suggest they have more to fear at home with the fascists back there now in control and the economy collapsing. Never mind just keep printing money and pay off banker mate debts. How the mighty have fallen. For all Thailand's faults at least Goldman Sachs isn't running the country for personal profit.

Indeed.

Unfortunately for americans, anything they say about other countries is almost always going to be hypocritical. Apart from north korea and burma, they are perhaps the state that most interferes with its people. It is quite ironical listening to their ridiculous warning. No farang will be in any danger at all if they're just minding their own business. What a stupid warning.

[DocHolliday]

<snip>

And, only a day or two after I wondered why people were STILL whiny even after the Bangkok rally was postponed, let me take a different stance and sincerely thank Mr. Abhisit for defusing the situation. Both parties give some and take some and I think this is good, especially in the days leading up to the national holiday. So a sincere 'Thank You' to Abhisit; credit where credit is due.

A sincere thank you?? You better stop posting in such hypocritical manner. Is CM already private property of the Reds or their beloved leader or some radio station? Became CM an autonomic region where a PM needs permission from the red brethren? Does CM belong to Thailand or not? I am speechless.

[Insight]

Used to think Chiang Mai would be the most ideal place in Thailand to raise a family for a number of reasons.

That opinion is as good as dashed for the foreseeable future at the very least after this weeks events. LCM can have it.

[Bagwan]

Interesting read in a new Asia Sentinel article written by Red Shirt fugitive Giles Ungpakorrn. In it, he pans Pheu Thai Party MP Chalerm, calls Samak a liar, accuses Pheu Thai Party member General Panlop of being responsible for the grenade attack on the recent PAD rally that injured 12, and blasts away at various other assorted individuals and organizations.

Is this guy currently resident in UK? If so I would advise him not to leave or he might find that he cannot get back in.

[Khruumaiyai]

<snip>

And, only a day or two after I wondered why people were STILL whiny even after the Bangkok rally was postponed, let me take a different stance and sincerely thank Mr. Abhisit for defusing the situation. Both parties give some and take some and I think this is good, especially in the days leading up to the national holiday. So a sincere 'Thank You' to Abhisit; credit where credit is due.

A sincere thank you?? You better stop posting in such hypocritical manner. Is CM already private property of the Reds or their beloved leader or some radio station? Became CM an autonomic region where a PM needs permission from the red brethren? Does CM belong to Thailand or not? I am speechless.

Lots of questions you pose there... my question to you is, aren't you overreacting somewhat? Abhisit has made a sensible decision to defuse tension, remove the reason for the protest and the protest will most likely peter out. Of course he could have come up with full security and 'banged some heads together', but would that really have moved things along?

Good decision not to go.

[cornerback]

6,000 'Ping Pong' bombs found at home of Chiang Mai Red Shirt guard/

He argued that he bought the bombs for selling during the Loy Krathong festival in early November, but the bombs police confiscated remained unsold.

Is this a Chiang Mai tradition?

Around here, we put 3 incense sticks and a candle on the krathong when they are floated out, not bombs.

[khundon]

I am glad to be Scottish as it seems they only want to target Americans - I will wear my Kilt to scare them off.

I think the warning will apply to all foreigners, once the other embassies and their lazy staff get off their fat asses and issue one.

[cornerback]

Interesting read in a new Asia Sentinel article written by Red Shirt fugitive Giles Ungpakorrn. In it, he pans Pheu Thai Party MP Chalerm, calls Samak a liar, accuses Pheu Thai Party member General Panlop of being responsible for the grenade attack on the recent PAD rally that injured 12, and blasts away at various other assorted individuals and organizations.

Is this guy currently resident in UK? If so I would advise him not to leave or he might find that he cannot get back in.

Yes, he has dual UK-Thai citizenship and resides in the UK. Interesting to see all the splintering amongst the Reds and Pheu Thai Party, although he, in particular, seems to blast all sides including his own.

[Publicus]

quote]

And, only a day or two after I wondered why people were STILL whiny even after the Bangkok rally was postponed, let me take a different stance and sincerely thank Mr. Abhisit for defusing the situation. Both parties give some and take some and I think this is good, especially in the days leading up to the national holiday. So a sincere 'Thank You' to Abhisit; credit where credit is due.

That's unusually 'kind' of you to compliment Abhisit in this way, but full credit goes to Thaksin and the particular thugs in CM for effectively separating the city from Thailand, thereby upping the ante.

Also, beyond the specific comments above, I see that simply the mention of the US in this has brought out the usual anti-US suspects enjoying their chronically pathological pursuits. Having a pathology requires professional attention so I'd recommend it be seriously considered by the so afflicted.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Used to think Chiang Mai would be the most ideal place in Thailand to raise a family for a number of reasons.

That opinion is as good as dashed for the foreseeable future at the very least after this weeks events. LCM can have it.

Well, as it happens, that's pretty much what I'm doing as we speak, raising a family in Chiang Mai. It's good, and we got things like fog. Last week I wanted to show the 4 year old what fog is like so we just drove up the mountain that's right next to town. An eerie foggy forrest, you don't get that in Patters or Bangkok.

Lots of questions you pose there... my question to you is, aren't you overreacting somewhat? Abhisit has made a sensible decision to defuse tension, remove the reason for the protest and the protest will most likely peter out. Of course he could have come up with full security and 'banged some heads together', but would that really have moved things along?

Good decision not to go.

Thank you. Yes, that's pretty much my point. Though to be honest I also think he does need to engage (some groups in) the red movement at some point. At that point there may be a demonstration or rally by the Reds, which is actually still allowed even under the current constitution. Reading posts here you'd think otherwise, that anyone voicing a political opinion is a terrorist.

Yes, he has dual UK-Thai citizenship and resides in the UK. Interesting to see all the splintering amongst the Reds and Pheu Thai Party, although he, in particular, seems to blast all sides including his own.

I'd go one step further and not only call it interesting, but essential. Can't have a small but loud element derail the more genuine arguments for democracy and equality. Giles also wrote a rather scathing article on the legacy of Samak; he's no fan of Samak either. Hint: He agrees with a lot of posters here on that. I think when you actually read his articles that you agree with quite a lot of it. (He is very left wing of course, a socialist and not ashamed of it)

Edited November 26, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[WinnieTheKhwai]

That's unusually 'kind' of you to compliment Abhisit in this way, but full credit goes to Thaksin and the particular thugs in CM for effectively separating the city from Thailand, thereby upping the ante.

You must admit that this is a bit of a stretch.. I mean in all seriousness:

-> A segment of the population feels that the current government wasn't formed in a proper way and want elections. [No matter how big or small a segment, and no matter what the actual outcome of an election would be; I'm just being factual, bear with me. ]

-> Even in the current constitution, people have the basic freedom of assembly and freedom of speech.

-> However, all sides seem to agree that it is not proper and/or not in anyone's best interest to have a shouting match or worse in the days before the upcoming holiday. The Reds all the way up to Thaksin have expressed this clearly by postponing the Bangkok rally, and Abhisit has opted to not flame any fire by visiting. If I was stating more than facts here then I could add that it almost sounds like a deal was done, but then I wouldn't be factual anymore so take this for what it's worth.

---

So there you have it, that's to the best of my ability a factual summary of what just transpired this week. And from this, you come to the conclusion that "Thaksin and the particular thugs in CM [are] effectively separating the city from Thailand.".

I'd say that's somewhat of a hyperbole. Both sides have decided to defuse a potential clash, and you manage to yet again drag Takky into it as a villain? It almost seems that no matter what happens, it's part of Thaksin's evil meddling? That's a very black and white view of things at best.

[cougar52]

Why disrupt the peace... Stay home Mr. Abhisit! Please.

And toady to the criminal element of CM. No way, he should go mob-handed and crack any heads that cause trouble. As the leader of Thailand he should be free to travel where ever in safety and not be threatened with violent acts by anyone whatever their political views.

I don't want to sound like a broken record, however, I seem to remember about 1 year ago when the PM (Somchai) could not land his plane in Bangkok because of the YELLOW SHIRTS.

What needs to happen is the Police need to enforce of the law against each an everyone that incites unruly and illegal actions. And if there are not any laws on the books, then make some. And get rid of the my pen lie attitudes.

While I am all for protesting and airing grievances, it mush be done in such away that does not harm and must not damage others lives, ie working, schools etc.

[phetaroi]

I am glad to be Scottish as it seems they only want to target Americans - I will wear my Kilt to scare them off.

I can vouch for the wisdom of that! A man wearing kilts always scared me off!

[phetaroi]

Post deleted at poster's request.

Edited November 26, 2009 by phetaroi