Us Blacklists Thailand Over Child, Forced Labour

[h90]

I do not approve Western countries in this matter but when I read the Thai official telling "it might appear as if young children are being used in factories because some foreign workers bring their children to work - something that needs to be explained to US authorities.", meaning "Burmese children are not human being so we do not care and enforce the law for Thai citizens". I'm sorry but I puke.

We had labor here, I think Isaan. And their children came with them. When Papa worked they helped, giving him the screwdriver. Or bring some sand.

What is wrong with it??

I also worked as child and helped my parents. That is mixed here with letting children work 10 hours a day in a factory, which I haven't seen in Thailand yet.

[Project504naha]

Interesting...............this topic came up just before the last worldcup................

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I go to this noodle shop and noticed that many of the helpers at the shop were Burmese. One of the shop keepers said that they had to pay a 50 thousand baht fee to get official papers to allow these Burmese workers into Thailand.

I just wonder whether these Burmese workers are working under slave-labor-like conditions and whether any of their personal documents are kept by the Thai employers to prevent the Burmese laborers from running away.

They could still run away, just not with those documents that they most likely haven't paid for yet. Typically the fees for this would be cut from their monthly salary. Overall of course the goal of employing non-Thais is that they cost less; so it's a bit disingenuous on the part of those people to be complaining about the cost for making them legal, when the overall reason they're doing it is to save a few bucks compared to hiring Thai/Isan/etc people.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

What is it that makes government in the West think they can impose their own morality as to when a person should be working and earning money? I am sure they would be more proud if the kids was out stealing, starving and/or abusing drugs and dying at a young age. You know, the LA way...

One of the most significant failures regarding this 'protect the children' hysteria is that it has missed the point ('save the children'), as seen when factory-owners in India and Nepal got caught up in boycott-calls, their western customers imposing trade-rules and the companies then summarily dismissed all underage (by western standard) workers, leaving them to poverty.

Even UNICEF write of the plight caused in Bangladesh after the Child Labor Deterrence Act was introduced in the US, an estimated 50,000 children were dismissed from their garment industry jobs, leaving many to resort to jobs such as "stone-crushing, street hustling, and prostitution", jobs that are "more hazardous and exploitative than garment production". The study suggests that boycotts are "blunt instruments with long-term consequences, that can actually harm rather than help the children involved."

( http://www.unicef.org/sowc97/report/ )

Are you really trying to defend child labour?

Do you have arguments to say it can never be defended? I'm all ears. Very few things in the world are black and white; it's easy to throw something out there and call it inexcusable without looking at all the factors involved, and all the consequences of acting, or not acting.

Personally I don't believe that child labour in Thailand is very widespread, especially not in factories and the like. It is fairly common in family businesses, and you could argue that it was equally common throughout the history of the USA, until they are where they are now. It's a bit simplistic to then oppose other countries for going through the same process. (Applies not just to this topic but just about anything; Safety standards in the US weren't always as high as they are now; focus on pollution wasn't always as high as it is now; etc. )

In addition to family business it's also far too common among non-Thai groups such as hill tribe people, Shan/Burmese, Cambodian.. Kids being sent out at night to sell flowers, wash windscreens and so on is clearly wrong. So if I'm really honest then there is definitely an ethnic factor involved, however I would not take the simplistic view that 'it's the foreigners, it's their issue'.. I think the Thai government has a responsibility on everything that happens in Thailand, so that includes putting Burmese/Cambodian/Hilltribe children's rights and safety on the agenda.

[Asa]

The question asked by some

What is it that makes government in the West think they can impose their own morality as to when a person should be working and earning money? I am sure they would be more proud if the kids was out stealing, starving and/or abusing drugs and dying at a young age. You know, the LA way...

The answer is quite simple, it is called being responsive to those groups in the western countries that have asked their respective governments to intervene. You can bet that the people that sell cheap shrimp at the grocery store in Amsterdam, Toronto, Cardiff and Calgary won't be happy, but the groups that advocate on behalf of child welfare, the school kids that have been undertaking lobbying efforts for several years and those people with a sense of social responsibility will understand and support the move.I don't want to buy shrimp that's been harvested by some 5 year old forced to work 10 hours for a few satang. What you don't get is that the use of the child labour allows some suppliers to undercut those suppliers that pay a fair wage and blocks those responsible suppliers from competing. If anything, the western governments are being fair by saying that if we do not allow child labor in our country because the population is opposed to it, we cannot encourage it elsewhere.

You cannot defend the use of child labor in some of these filthy plants. A child should not be cleaning shrimp in a dark factory. And as for your comment about people dying in LA, you watch too many movies. Yes people get shot in LA, but they aren't children running around doing that. For the most part they are young adults aged 17-25. Completely different demographics and circumstances.

The more I look at your statement, the more I realize that it is devoid of any logic. Slavery is illegal in western countries. Because it is endemic to the cocoa plantations of Niger, does that mean we should turn a blind eye to slavery? How is indentured child labor any different than slavery? Fortunately for the western world, the people that share your view are ignored and have no power. I hope it stays that way because I do not need lower prices based on forcing some child to slave for me.

This is a good statement that rebuts (or precludes) those who advocate that Western 19th century capitalist economics be applied to 21st century developing economies and peoples.

The Customs Facilitation and Trade Enforcement Reauthorization Act referenced in the OP is proposed legislation the US has been trying to enact since Bill Clinton was prez, and now is moving through the US Senate because of the support of Pres Obama. It too would address child labor issues and much more. Presently for example, in Thailand and in other developing countries Customs Facilitation means greasing the palms of customs officers, and Trade Enforcement means non enforcement of such matters as child labor laws, working conditions, workplace safety, worker's compensation for injuries sustained in the workplace and enviromental protections.

Those from the Dark Ages who advocate that the obscene Western 19th century factory conditions be permitted or encouraged in economies such as exist in Thailand also argue against safe and civilized workplaces, conditions of work and compensation for permanently disabling injuries or the proper training to minimize such injuries and much more. They try to present the mid 19th century factory conditions of the West as being humane when applied to the developing economies of the present, and that there isn't any alternative to exploitation, or that primitive conditions in the workplace are unchangable, that environmental protections aren't feasible or affordable. These and other same or similar arguments are obsene because they would preserve the status quo, they would change nothing.

We're talking about standards here? Yes, the U.S. of A. has set high(est) standard of living, the most advanced in Occupational Safety, Health control. But how far the world can follow such leader? and if we can use the same guidelines, under different skies of value and culture. Should we be dictated and by the U.S. for green money without gold reserve? The same country who still has highest rate of work injuries and death? who let its people dying, because they don't have health insurance? is producing Carbon Fluo Chloride, and vito Tokyo Protocol? Burning high sulpher diesel fuel, and consume a third of the world resources?

Thailand is ILO member country. It has adopted many laws base on UN's Global Compact the Nine Principles. Business entities have a duty to care for their staff. Publicly, Thailand is doing its best to improve living condition here both for people as well as the employees. In health care, we may have too many overcrowded hospital, but very few would be left to die while waiting for doctor. And for the poor it's free of charge.

[Ijustwannateach]

Of course child labour is deplorable. However, what's the goal? Do you 'help' children by making them unemployable in a situation of poverty? If so, do you then send the additional money to support those children, if their own governments are not willing or unable? In such a case not only would you increase the cost of your imports because of the cost of adult labour, but also additional costs in the form of social welfare supports which the exporting country did not provide. Is it immoral, then, to choose not to buy from those countries because of these 'high prices?' What if the supports you are trying to offer are not even provided in your own country to children who need it there? Shouldn't they be taken care of first?

The question of how to 'help' children and what is morally right is a complex one.

[Scott]

IJWT: Your very correct in stating that the issue is a complex one. Very often child labor has to do with an 'unfair labor cost advantage' rather than a concern for the children themselves. On the other hand, it is also important that countries not do or say anything that causes increased exploitation of children in the labor market.

Where the issue gets both complex and confusing is in the cottage industries where an entire family may be producing something that is then sold. Children who are working directly with their parents is probably not such a bad thing as a general rule.

There have been some horrendous stories about underage children being trafficked and being worked to death on fishing trawlers, for example.

[jayjayjayjay]

And, China is not on the list........... what a joke! Special circumstances maybe!

[garyh]

Shouldn't usa sort out it's own problems before sticking their nose in every where else, Child forced labour was on TV in Australia last week in usa, illegal immigrants having to put there kids to work in orchards picking fruit etc to get enough money to survive.

[clausewitz]

How dare America accuse Thailand (greatest country in whole world) of anything!

If I were the Thai prime minister I would crush America.

Thailand has never been colonised and is greatest country in whole world!

Probaly thaksin met with Obama and has been giving away all Thailands secrets.

[geovalin]

I do not approve Western countries in this matter but when I read the Thai official telling "it might appear as if young children are being used in factories because some foreign workers bring their children to work - something that needs to be explained to US authorities.", meaning "Burmese children are not human being so we do not care and enforce the law for Thai citizens". I'm sorry but I puke.

We had labor here, I think Isaan. And their children came with them. When Papa worked they helped, giving him the screwdriver. Or bring some sand.

What is wrong with it??

I also worked as child and helped my parents. That is mixed here with letting children work 10 hours a day in a factory, which I haven't seen in Thailand yet.

The Thai official did not mention Isaan or your parents. He / she mentions foreign workers.

My agitation does not come from the works of the children (this is another issue, even if I feel that children are better at school than in a shrimp farm), it comes from the fact that the Thai official considers Thai people like a perfect population without any defect and the foreigners like kind of animals acting stupid + as they are in Thailand, these aliens give to the Thailand a bad image.

[Publicus]

What is it that makes government in the West think they can impose their own morality as to when a person should be working and earning money? I am sure they would be more proud if the kids was out stealing, starving and/or abusing drugs and dying at a young age. You know, the LA way...

One of the most significant failures regarding this 'protect the children' hysteria is that it has missed the point ('save the children'), as seen when factory-owners in India and Nepal got caught up in boycott-calls, their western customers imposing trade-rules and the companies then summarily dismissed all underage (by western standard) workers, leaving them to poverty.

Even UNICEF write of the plight caused in Bangladesh after the Child Labor Deterrence Act was introduced in the US, an estimated 50,000 children were dismissed from their garment industry jobs, leaving many to resort to jobs such as "stone-crushing, street hustling, and prostitution", jobs that are "more hazardous and exploitative than garment production". The study suggests that boycotts are "blunt instruments with long-term consequences, that can actually harm rather than help the children involved."

( http://www.unicef.org/sowc97/report/ )

TAWP,

I totally agree totally with you. I wish westerners would stop trying to enforce their so called values on everyone in the world. Many countries have survived for centuries before the USA was even born. Let them take care of their own problems before being so self rightous.

Too many of the many Old World countries that existed before the founding of the USA were shitholes then as they are shitholes now. Witness that Bangkok and Washington DC were each founded during the last three decades of the 18th century. To ignore the differences in the two civilizations is bliss and allows the status quo to continue. Worse, trying to rationalize the status quo is to defend exploitation and to directly lend support to the Old World elites many of us so often criticize.

Today it happens to be the USA with its report. However, such critiques are regular and consistent from the West to include the EU, globally by the UN and other organizations. It's the Old World elites of political economy who are being criticised by the West, not the populations who are continuously exploited. It's frankly a matter of which side one is on.

[aussiejosh]

I hate to say this, but Child labor isn't the most evil thing on earth. If anything it might even save a few children from going without food. Sure you could leave them orphans to starve on the street, or prey some charity comes along, but why not exploit them if they in a way need it themselves. Thailand should have better social service to combat this, and is far more than wealthy enough to protect its children to at least some basic international standard. While Bangladesh on the other hand, and countries which are extremely high population there are less options for the government to help.

[hhgz]

"If I were the Thai prime minister I would crush America."

What are you going to do, hold your breath until you turn blue?

"Thailand has never been colonised..."

Neither has the US.

"...and is greatest country in whole world!"

Not nearly.

[OriginalPoster]

If nothing else, this thread has given everyone a chance to answer that proverbial question of "which do you find more reprehensible, child labor or the US?" To me it seems that hatred of Americans is an inadequate reason to support child labor.

Edited November 27, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[way2muchcoffee]

If I walk into a store and see workers being mistreated or abused I will choose not to purchase from that store. I will move on and buy what I need elsewhere. This is not construed as meddling in the affairs of the business I chose not to purchase from.

[Publicus]

If nothing else, this thread has given everyone a chance to answer that proverbial question of "which do you find more reprehensible, child labor or the US?" To me it seems that hatred of Americans is an inadequate reason to support child labor.

That certainly is one way to frame the discussion. If the observation is accurate, then the dogmatic anti-USA pathologies of so many entrap themselves to side with some awfully objectionable leaders, elites and primitive behaviours in so many Old World countries.

While the West criticizes and critiques it's own "do-gooder" efforts, policies and programs the pathological haters cite only the West's constructive self critiques, preferring to refer to the supposed and alleged object failures of the West. It's the case however that pathologies are irrational, often anti rational.

[TAWP]

If nothing else, this thread has given everyone a chance to answer that proverbial question of "which do you find more reprehensible, child labor or the US?" To me it seems that hatred of Americans is an inadequate reason to support child labor.

That certainly is one way to frame the discussion. If the observation is accurate, then the dogmatic anti-USA pathologies of so many entrap themselves to side with some awfully objectionable leaders, elites and primitive behaviours in so many Old World countries.

While the West criticizes and critiques it's own "do-gooder" efforts, policies and programs the pathological haters cite only the West's constructive self critiques, preferring to refer to the supposed and alleged object failures of the West. It's the case however that pathologies are irrational, often anti rational.

Both of your critique is inane and childish. Spee is for instance one of the most fierce US patriots on this board, but he is also not a socialist. To call his critique out as some form of anti-US rant is a bit like proclaiming that "anyone that doesn't think like me is against the whole nation". Not so at all.

[catmac]

If nothing else, this thread has given everyone a chance to answer that proverbial question of "which do you find more reprehensible, child labor or the US?" To me it seems that hatred of Americans is an inadequate reason to support child labor.

That certainly is one way to frame the discussion. If the observation is accurate, then the dogmatic anti-USA pathologies of so many entrap themselves to side with some awfully objectionable leaders, elites and primitive behaviours in so many Old World countries.

While the West criticizes and critiques it's own "do-gooder" efforts, policies and programs the pathological haters cite only the West's constructive self critiques, preferring to refer to the supposed and alleged object failures of the West. It's the case however that pathologies are irrational, often anti rational.

Both of your critique is inane and childish. Spee is for instance one of the most fierce US patriots on this board, but he is also not a socialist. To call his critique out as some form of anti-US rant is a bit like proclaiming that "anyone that doesn't think like me is against the whole nation". Not so at all.

I'm glad that you were able to understand and reply to Publicus's rant, TAWP. I'm afraid that I haven't a clue what he is on about!

[Publicus]

If nothing else, this thread has given everyone a chance to answer that proverbial question of "which do you find more reprehensible, child labor or the US?" To me it seems that hatred of Americans is an inadequate reason to support child labor.

That certainly is one way to frame the discussion. If the observation is accurate, then the dogmatic anti-USA pathologies of so many entrap themselves to side with some awfully objectionable leaders, elites and primitive behaviours in so many Old World countries.

While the West criticizes and critiques it's own "do-gooder" efforts, policies and programs the pathological haters cite only the West's constructive self critiques, preferring to refer to the supposed and alleged object failures of the West. It's the case however that pathologies are irrational, often anti rational.

Both of your critique is inane and childish. Spee is for instance one of the most fierce US patriots on this board, but he is also not a socialist. To call his critique out as some form of anti-US rant is a bit like proclaiming that "anyone that doesn't think like me is against the whole nation". Not so at all.

I'm glad that you were able to understand and reply to Publicus's rant, TAWP. I'm afraid that I haven't a clue what he is on about!

I have noticed around the threads that Spee has recently returned to activity at newsclips, but when or where in this thread (or elsewhere) did I mention him? Or respond to a post by him? (I made a post above quoting another forumist, the post happened to follow one by Spee, but I didn't quote or particularly respond to Spee.)

Matters are getting a bit off center here.

[Asa]

OP is about the U.S. is issuing a new regulation to ban Thailand products citing child labour. I think it spurpose is to curb imports, to protect its economy and local products. High standards, are used to ban some imports, and the poor country like Thailand can hardly make a case. This we must protest, for there must be a study before announcement. Yes, we have child labour problem in some areas, but not all are bad.

Thailand should not look up to export to only the US but should look to improve its products for wider range of world markets. And to produce more goods for itself. Por Piang is sustainable satisfaction on self sufficiency.

Concerning US and Thailand Sovereignty, both has been colonized, Thai by neighbour countries such as Myanmar, and Cambodia, The US land was colonized by France, Great Bretain, and Russia(Alaska before it was bought). American are great people, in a melting pot, the same with Siamese whose people come from everywhere and they mixed up to be Thai...

[BusyBee123]

Just an excuse to ban imports nothing to do with kids.

[Publicus]

OP is about the U.S. is issuing a new regulation to ban Thailand products citing child labour. I think it spurpose is to curb imports, to protect its economy and local products. High standards, are used to ban some imports, and the poor country like Thailand can hardly make a case. This we must protest, for there must be a study before announcement. Yes, we have child labour problem in some areas, but not all are bad.

Thailand should not look up to export to only the US but should look to improve its products for wider range of world markets. And to produce more goods for itself. Por Piang is sustainable satisfaction on self sufficiency.

Concerning US and Thailand Sovereignty, both has been colonized, Thai by neighbour countries such as Myanmar, and Cambodia, The US land was colonized by France, Great Bretain, and Russia(Alaska before it was bought). American are great people, in a melting pot, the same with Siamese whose people come from everywhere and they mixed up to be Thai...

Your definition of colonization might be unique in annals. Thailand does have some variations of pyhsique and culture, but black hair and black eyes are everywhere.

The Customs Facilitation and Trade Enforcement Reauthorization Act mentioned in the OP, and which I cited earlier as having first been unsuccessfully introduced as a bill during the Clinton presidency, went nowhere during the particularly prosperous 1990s because the Republican Party conrolled both chambers of the Congress, followed by eight years of the Republican Bush. I say again, the bill was introduced by the Democratic Party during the prosperous 1990s.

As neither Thailand nor other 3rd World countries liked the trade linkage policies of Prez Bill, and the Republicans don't like them either, the bill languished in Washington for a long time - because of Washington politics. Now the Democratic Party is back and so is the bill, which already is being acted on by the Senate Finance Committee and soon will become law, much to the consternation of the Third World elites of political economy.

The bill links prosperity with standards concerning labor, trade and the environment. It was a good bill during the prosperous 1990s and it's an even better bill now.

[Stumbo]

Being American I am conflicted about this one.

Yes, Americans do like to see themselves as moral leaders of the world. I am not sure exactly why but it is part of the culture.

On the other hand, we are horrible hypocrites, consuming much more than our fair share of the world's finite resources, including slave labor cocoa, among many other kinds of unethical situations at home.

However, the US remains a diminished but still great world power, and it does at least give lip service to moral issues, and certainly child slave labor and human trafficking etc. are bad things. I can't help but feel that it isn't an entirely bad thing for there to be a major power making noise about these kinds of issues.

Americans may through some perversity of propaganda or diminished capacity see themselves as moral leaders, but if that ever even were true it was a long time ago. How does a corrupt, bankrupt (morally and financially) state infamous for its war mongering and interference in foreign countries with a history of genocide, slavery and racial hatred presume to adopt such a position?

Add to that the current era of blatant fascism and eroding civil liberties, ignoring their constitution and piling enormous debt on the public to bail out fraudulent banker friends, so this is moral leadership? All Americans should be ashamed or ropeably angry at how the noble ideals of their republic has been perverted, and if not you are morally deficient, not leaders.

[LuckyLew]

I couldn't care a less what the Americans say or think

Sick and tired of the yanks thinking they are the worlds police.

Invading countries at will, support Isreal and and their

attacks on other countries.

Do I agree with child labour, no I do not

Do American companies operating in Thailand charging

American prices actually pay American wages? not

[Publicus]

Being American I am conflicted about this one.

Yes, Americans do like to see themselves as moral leaders of the world. I am not sure exactly why but it is part of the culture.

On the other hand, we are horrible hypocrites, consuming much more than our fair share of the world's finite resources, including slave labor cocoa, among many other kinds of unethical situations at home.

However, the US remains a diminished but still great world power, and it does at least give lip service to moral issues, and certainly child slave labor and human trafficking etc. are bad things. I can't help but feel that it isn't an entirely bad thing for there to be a major power making noise about these kinds of issues.

Americans may through some perversity of propaganda or diminished capacity see themselves as moral leaders, but if that ever even were true it was a long time ago. How does a corrupt, bankrupt (morally and financially) state infamous for its war mongering and interference in foreign countries with a history of genocide, slavery and racial hatred presume to adopt such a position?

Add to that the current era of blatant fascism and eroding civil liberties, ignoring their constitution and piling enormous debt on the public to bail out fraudulent banker friends, so this is moral leadership? All Americans should be ashamed or ropeably angry at how the noble ideals of their republic has been perverted, and if not you are morally deficient, not leaders.

You wrote quite a tour de farce.

[Lovedog100]

The question asked by some

What is it that makes government in the West think they can impose their own morality as to when a person should be working and earning money? I am sure they would be more proud if the kids was out stealing, starving and/or abusing drugs and dying at a young age. You know, the LA way...

The answer is quite simple, it is called being responsive to those groups in the western countries that have asked their respective governments to intervene. You can bet that the people that sell cheap shrimp at the grocery store in Amsterdam, Toronto, Cardiff and Calgary won't be happy, but the groups that advocate on behalf of child welfare, the school kids that have been undertaking lobbying efforts for several years and those people with a sense of social responsibility will understand and support the move.I don't want to buy shrimp that's been harvested by some 5 year old forced to work 10 hours for a few satang. What you don't get is that the use of the child labour allows some suppliers to undercut those suppliers that pay a fair wage and blocks those responsible suppliers from competing. If anything, the western governments are being fair by saying that if we do not allow child labor in our country because the population is opposed to it, we cannot encourage it elsewhere.

You cannot defend the use of child labor in some of these filthy plants. A child should not be cleaning shrimp in a dark factory. And as for your comment about people dying in LA, you watch too many movies. Yes people get shot in LA, but they aren't children running around doing that. For the most part they are young adults aged 17-25. Completely different demographics and circumstances.

The more I look at your statement, the more I realize that it is devoid of any logic. Slavery is illegal in western countries. Because it is endemic to the cocoa plantations of Niger, does that mean we should turn a blind eye to slavery? How is indentured child labor any different than slavery? Fortunately for the western world, the people that share your view are ignored and have no power. I hope it stays that way because I do not need lower prices based on forcing some child to slave for me.

Well said !!

[Publicus]

The question asked by some

What is it that makes government in the West think they can impose their own morality as to when a person should be working and earning money? I am sure they would be more proud if the kids was out stealing, starving and/or abusing drugs and dying at a young age. You know, the LA way...

The answer is quite simple, it is called being responsive to those groups in the western countries that have asked their respective governments to intervene. You can bet that the people that sell cheap shrimp at the grocery store in Amsterdam, Toronto, Cardiff and Calgary won't be happy, but the groups that advocate on behalf of child welfare, the school kids that have been undertaking lobbying efforts for several years and those people with a sense of social responsibility will understand and support the move.I don't want to buy shrimp that's been harvested by some 5 year old forced to work 10 hours for a few satang. What you don't get is that the use of the child labour allows some suppliers to undercut those suppliers that pay a fair wage and blocks those responsible suppliers from competing. If anything, the western governments are being fair by saying that if we do not allow child labor in our country because the population is opposed to it, we cannot encourage it elsewhere.

You cannot defend the use of child labor in some of these filthy plants. A child should not be cleaning shrimp in a dark factory. And as for your comment about people dying in LA, you watch too many movies. Yes people get shot in LA, but they aren't children running around doing that. For the most part they are young adults aged 17-25. Completely different demographics and circumstances.

The more I look at your statement, the more I realize that it is devoid of any logic. Slavery is illegal in western countries. Because it is endemic to the cocoa plantations of Niger, does that mean we should turn a blind eye to slavery? How is indentured child labor any different than slavery? Fortunately for the western world, the people that share your view are ignored and have no power. I hope it stays that way because I do not need lower prices based on forcing some child to slave for me.

Well said !!

And on topic besides - heroic!

[sassienie]

Fighting for justice and all that is good, the American way.

I do wish that America would sort out it`s own social problems instead of trying to lay down the law on other countries.

They should first look into their own sordid history of human rights abuses and as for slave labourers; it was the Yanks that first introduced the slave industries to the west. America is a fine nation to preach to others, I don’t think.

[Publicus]

Fighting for justice and all that is good, the American way.

I do wish that America would sort out it`s own social problems instead of trying to lay down the law on other countries.

They should first look into their own sordid history of human rights abuses and as for slave labourers; it was the Yanks that first introduced the slave industries to the west. America is a fine nation to preach to others, I don't think.

You want perfection I guess you'd just have to keep looking into the mirror, where ever you are from.