La Monita

[Jingthing]

Your arguments are more interesting and worth considering.

However, consider these points --

We are not talking about hemispheres when we talk about western cuisine. We are talking about European influence. Most of Europe is NOT in the western hemisphere.

Modern Mexican food would be completely UNIMAGINABLE without its Indian roots.

The Diet of the Mayan Indians

Mexican food might go back as far as the Mayan Indians, who lived in the Yucatan area in Southeast Mexico. They were nomadic hunter-gatherers and lived off indigenous wildlife such as deer, rabbits, armadillos, raccoons, and birds such as turkeys, pigeons, and quails could also be served. Even turtles, snakes, and frogs would occasionally complement the meal, as well as fish, tropical fruit, beans and corn. Corn tortillas spread with bean paste for example, was a common food. Interestingly, it turns out that corn and beans have "complimentary" amino acids. Their combination provides the full complement of amino acids, which the body needs to produce the protein it needs to function properly.

Pre-Columbian Period Mexican Food

In the time before significant European influence, often referred to as the pre-Colombian period, Mexican diet was entirely native, and based on one of its main agricultural products: Corn. Corn was made into flavorful tortillas and tamales, or rendered into flour for other variations. These corn products were supplemented with vegetables and meat, sweet potato, beans, squash and a variety of spices including chiles. The importance of chiles to Mexican identity is captured in a famous folk song: Yo soy como el chile verde, picante pero sabroso (I am like the green chile, hot but tasty). Early Mexicans also relied on herbs and a wide range of mushrooms.

Also consider the Spanish influence was limited by geography and available ingredients, as noted here --

After the Conquest

The conquest of Mexico by Spain in 1521 had a great influence on Mexican cuisine. It brought, for example, new livestock, such as pigs, cows and sheep, dairy products, garlic, many herbs, including coriander, an abundance of spices and wheat. With the conquistadores and their descendents also came a taste for barley, rice, olives, wines, Indian spices, beef, and different kinds of fruit. Yet Paige West points out that Spain and Mexico influenced each other a lot less than many suggest, primarily because of the great environmental differences. The new settlers in Mexico had to learn to love maize. It took time for them to start thinking of a "tortilla" as a Native American corn bread rather than as an omelet. In fact, writes West, throughout Latin America except in the far north and south, the staples of the traditional Spanish diet; wheat, olives, vines, and pigs, do not flourish. Conversely, according to West, Mexican crops have taken much less hold in Spain than in Italy or even Hungary.

Your reply indicated that NOT categorizing Mexican cuisine as a western cuisine is not unheard of (most food journalists is not all food journalists). Is it possible journalists are doing this out of some oddly motivated political correctness or even intellectual laziness? Again, try to imagine Mexican food without its Indian origins, and I don't think you would have anything like the fabulously unique and wonderful cuisine of Mexico, in my view, among the best in the world.

Yes, of course, Spanish cuisine has a lot of diverse influences, including from eastern cultures.

I expect someone to refute this by saying, well, Mexico is a western country so its food culture by definition is also western. It is a western country. Is it possible for a western country to have a predominantly non-western food culture? I think yes. This does all get murky. For example, JAPAN is commonly called a Western country in the press, and I think we can probably agree that the predominant food culture of Japan is not western.

http://anthropology.suite101.com/article.c...ood_and_culture

Edited December 7, 2009 by Jingthing

[kikoman]

I find those arguments as very uninformed ,at best.

Native American foods have been the most common ingredient of not only European cuisine but in many cuisines world wide.

What would Italian food be without the (Native American) Tomato?

What would the Irish and U.S. meat/potato Cuisine be without the (Native American) Potato?

What would the worlds sweets be without the (Native American) Chocolate?

Here is a list of some of the foods,that were introduced to the world by the Maya/Native American foods from the new world.

Tomato

Potato

Chocolate

Avocado

Peanuts

Papaya

Pineapple

Maize (Corn)

Vanilla

Chile pepper "Sweet/Spicy" a common ingredients in almost every major Cuisine world wide.

North America is one of the greatest producers of corn.

China is the greatest producer of peanuts.

Mexicans Native American foods have made a great contribution to Thailand's great Cuisine in the form of Papaya, Chile and Pineapple.

Many people take the road of I do not care, do not try to confuse me with the "Facts"!

Modern Western Cuisine is Unimaginable without The Maya influence !

Cheers:

Edited December 8, 2009 by kikoman

[Jingthing]

I agree with you Kikoman about how important ingredients which originated in the Americas are to many global cuisines, including Thai (the chilies mostly).

Here is where I disagree.

I CAN imagine US and western cuisine without the potato (use other starches).

I CAN imagine Italian food without the tomato (use other sauces such as pesto).

I CAN imagine Thai cuisine without the chilies (they used to use black pepper originally for heat).

However, I really cannot imagine Mexican food without the corn tortillas, without the beans, without the chiles.

I understand this could be an area of subjective debate about the degree and relative dominance of native influence. So we disagree. OK.

BTW, your last post wasn't even about whether Mexican food is a western cuisine, or not. You were addressing a totally different topic, the importance of ingredients from the Americas to global cuisines. In the case of Mexico, these Indian ingredients originated in the land, and stay in the land, they are not outside influences. The USA food culture also uses a lot of native ingredients, but I do feel the dominant mainstream USA cuisine is definitely western/European, even with the native ingredients.

Edited December 8, 2009 by Jingthing

[kikoman]

I was surprised by you sudden attack on the origins of Mayan/Native American food by the value judgment of your perception of what constitutes Western Food.

If you will notice the heading of the Forum, Foods in Thailand, Western Food, Farang food or Western food.

with an emphasis on Foreign Cuisines. Mexican food most definitely falls into that category!

You were the one addressing the issue of what you considered appropriate foods for this category, I never addressed the issue until you brought it up and stated you could care less who was offended by your value judgments.

We do not live in the world of Make Believe, Take a good look around,This is the Real World!

Italian food dose include tomatoes.

United States food dose include potato's.

Thai food (Thank God) dose include Chiles. And Those foods origin are the product of the Mayan/Native American culture.

Read Steven R King.PH.D Sharman Pharmaceuticals, Inc. Article titled:

FOODS THAT CHANGED THE WORLD

http://www.accessexcellence.org/RC/Ethnobotony/page5.php

Or just type in the title in search.

Western Food would not be what it is today without the contributions of Native Americans foods originated by the Native Americans of North, Central and South America.

Your value judgment do not have any value without documentation to validate your point!

Cheers:

[bonobo]

Just the thought of a fish taco makes me want to puke.

There was a poll done some time ago on what food people missed most from their home when they moved elsewhere.  For San Diegans, the answer was was not even a close race.  The most missed food is--drum roll, please-- fish tacos!

I am not a big fish lover, but fish tacos rock.  The best I have had are from a stand in Ensenada, but I love them all.

[bonobo]

This thread has taken a turn for the worse.  The thread is about one specific restaurant and the food it serves, not about the influence of Mayan/Aztec/Toltec/whatever on other cuisines and how other cuisines have influenced Mexican food.

Some of these posts are bordering on flaming, so let's watch this and keep it civil and on topic.  If posters wish to discuss (civilly) some of these other topics, then start a thread specifically about them (keeping in mind that this is a Thailand-based forum).

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

Personally, I prefer Tacos de Camerones to fish tacos, although both can be found in the coastal areas of Mexico as well as SoCal. It would be so easy for any of the Mexican restaurants to put them on their menus. Saute shrimp with oil, garlic, serrano peppers and salt, or grill marinated shrimp. Put on two soft corn tortillas. Add chopped onions, cilantro, and serve with salsa, guacamole and a wedge of lime. Also, how about some Jalapenos en Escabeche? Just fry up some jalapenos, carrots, onions and garlic, add water, vinegar, salt, oregano, peppercorns and bay leaf, bring it to a boil, simmer 10 minutes, and refrigerate in a pickling jar. Now, how hard is this? Moreover, the ingredients are readily available and relatively cheap!

Maybe some of the new Mexican restaurant purveyors can get a little innovative, and add these simple but popular dishes at their restaurants.

Tacos de Camarones al Mojo de Ajo

[lannarebirth]

Just the thought of a fish taco makes me want to puke.

There was a poll done some time ago on what food people missed most from their home when they moved elsewhere. For San Diegans, the answer was was not even a close race. The most missed food is--drum roll, please-- fish tacos!

I am not a big fish lover, but fish tacos rock. The best I have had are from a stand in Ensenada, but I love them all.

The simpler the better. Flour OR Corn tortilla , mahi mahi, cilantro and sasa cruda. I'll have 2 3 please. You can vary the salsa with some fruit based salsas too.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

The simpler the better. Flour OR Corn tortilla , mahi mahi, cilantro and sasa cruda. I'll have 2 3 please. You can vary the salsa with some fruit based salsas too.

Yeah, mango salsa. Yum, yum!

[Jingthing]

This thread has taken a turn for the worse.  The thread is about one specific restaurant and the food it serves, not about the influence of Mayan/Aztec/Toltec/whatever on other cuisines and how other cuisines have influenced Mexican food.

Some of these posts are bordering on flaming, so let's watch this and keep it civil and on topic.  If posters wish to discuss (civilly) some of these other topics, then start a thread specifically about them (keeping in mind that this is a Thailand-based forum).

I agree. I have had my say and stand by my points. I won't be commenting further and won't start another thread either. Looking forward to the chance to try Monitas.

[languageexpress]

I finally tried the dreaded 'fish tacos'.

It consisted of lots of well grilled fish mixed with a fresh tomato/onion salsa that also contained quite a bit of chilli…it wasn't as spicy as some Thai dishes, but it definitely had a kick to it . There might have been some lime or lemon in there as well. Apparently the fish (or salsa?) is mixed with a little tequila at some stage during its creation, but I have to admit I couldn’t taste it.

It tasted good, I’d go fish tacos again no problem at all. Actually it was really good, probably my favourite out of everything I've tried at La Monita. Not surprisingly, it wasn’t as heavy as the 'meaty-beany-spicy-ricey-cheesy burrito' I had on my first visit. The chef reckons he goes through a 4kg fish a day, and once the fish has gone, there are no more fish tacos on the menu.

[Jingthing]

Actually, I don't consider the large portion of Mexicans who are have an Indian culture westerners. The Spanish types, of course. In the sense that "westerner" is more a subjective state of mind, rather than a geographical location. For example, Australia is a country with a dominant western culture.

I think you mean anglo culture then. The term western denotes everyone from european heritage which would include a large number of Mexicans.

No, that is not what I meant. I can't really comment further on this topic here. If someone cares enough to start another thread about Mexican cuisine, is it a western cuisine or not, go ahead.

[SpoliaOpima]

We are not talking about hemispheres when we talk about western cuisine. We are talking about European influence. Most of Europe is NOT in the western hemisphere.

Sorry but having read the posts here, 'Western' does primarily refer to the Western hemisphere.

Mexican cuisine is primarily a Western cuisine and fish tacos rock!

[kikoman]

I also had my say and stand by my facts,

I will not comment on that subject,anymore on this thread.

But I still think, that the prices as quoted on this thread , are high.

Cheers;

[jazzbo]

Up here 300-some miles from BKK, I have found my own solution to the Mexican Food conundrum, purists aghast or otherwise:

Lobo Chili Powder and Taco Seasoning Mixes http://www.lobo.co.th/product.php / Click on Western Powder. just too easy and a little MSG is no big deal. The Italian seasoning tastes like the spaghetti sauce at the T-bone buffets.

[hogheaven]

Up here 300-some miles from BKK, I have found my own solution to the Mexican Food conundrum, purists aghast or otherwise:

Lobo Chili Powder and Taco Seasoning Mixes http://www.lobo.co.th/product.php / Click on Western Powder. just too easy and a little MSG is no big deal. The Italian seasoning tastes like the spaghetti sauce at the T-bone buffets.

You need

GOOD SALSA TEQUILA

SALSA BRAND

TRACE GENERATIONS ( 3 GEN) IS THERE BEST AND WORTH IT

YOU WILL NOT TASTE BETTER ..

Molely's are what i miss

not your standerd fair, just make it fresh , all of it and you will do well..

PS

small soft tacos / bought by the dozen / lightly grilled with oil to soften before meat is put in .

2 taco corn toritllas soft about 5 in in size before folding with meat & salsa

a real mexican taco like the street vendors in Mexico / not the Amer, Mex with a salad inside and cheese/ sourcream

No Mexican has sourcream or cheese to put on a real taco

you get 6 to 12 as you eat standing and they cook in front of you.....

That is a real taco .........beef , carneates, chicken, pork, brain, tung........that is a real taco in Mexico ....

[SpoliaOpima]

PS

small soft tacos / bought by the dozen / lightly grilled with oil to soften before meat is put in .

2 taco corn toritllas soft about 5 in in size before folding with meat & salsa

a real mexican taco like the street vendors in Mexico / not the Amer, Mex with a salad inside and cheese/ sourcream

No Mexican has sourcream or cheese to put on a real taco

you get 6 to 12 as you eat standing and they cook in front of you.....

That is a real taco .........beef , carneates, chicken, pork, brain, lung........that is a real taco in Mexico ....

Amen brother.

[powderpuff]

Authentic Mexican good is always a delite to find in Thailand.

However 290 for a Burrito is getting pretty darn expensive almost US $9.00.

3 Soft Tacos for 99 baht is more inline with lunch pricing.

Made locally and from scratch with nothing to import it should be allot cheaper in my opinion.

If you think you will find 3 tacos for 99 baht in Thailand you are dreaming.

[hogheaven]

PS

small soft tacos / bought by the dozen / lightly grilled with oil to soften before meat is put in .

2 taco corn toritllas soft about 5 in in size before folding with meat & salsa

a real mexican taco like the street vendors in Mexico / not the Amer, Mex with a salad inside and cheese/ sourcream

No Mexican has sourcream or cheese to put on a real taco

you get 6 to 12 as you eat standing and they cook in front of you.....

That is a real taco .........beef , carneates, chicken, pork, brain, lung........that is a real taco in Mexico ....

Amen brother.

If you could get a place to make these they would not need to make anything else

and the line of frang would be around the block

BELOW ARE REAL MEXICAN TACOS ....GO THERE AND SEE IN MEXICO

Edited December 14, 2009 by hogheaven

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

ABOVE ARE REAL MEXICAN TACOS ....GO THERE AND SEE IN MEXICO

That's the way you get them in LA and San Francisco as well. Not just Mexico.

[bonobo]

Authentic Mexican good is always a delite to find in Thailand.

However 290 for a Burrito is getting pretty darn expensive almost US $9.00.

3 Soft Tacos for 99 baht is more inline with lunch pricing.

Made locally and from scratch with nothing to import it should be allot cheaper in my opinion.

If you think you will find 3 tacos for 99 baht in Thailand you are dreaming.

True, but given the economies of Thailand vis-a-vis Mexico, there is no reason why al pastor, carnitas, fish, etc. taquitos couldn't be sold for 3 for 100 baht.  And if they were good, I am sure they would have a line stretching around the block to buy them, farang and Thai alike.

You have shwarma selling for 50 baht each, and one shwarma has more food in it that one taquito, so the pricing should be within reach.

[powderpuff]

Well just back from an excellent meal. Zero problems getting heat in this shop. I was initially horrified by the idea of fish tacos but having read on this thread that they were good I tried it. WOW. Billy & I discussed how the taco would be prepared. We decided on a soft flour tortilla with grilled fish & just some light spicy elements. To wit lime chile onion cilantro. Excellent. Next steak (beef) taco - prepared the same way - 10 out of a possible 10. The sliced beef had a fabulous flavor. Lastly I went for al pastor - again soft taco. None of this sour cream guac nonsense.

If you go there you must try the fish tacos.

Thanks Billy - we will be back. We are blessed with so many GOOD Mexican Places now. Subaijai - I know you like good Mexican - this place is gonna be your #1 joint with T&S.

[BlueTerrace]

Well just back from an excellent meal. Zero problems getting heat in this shop. I was initially horrified by the idea of fish tacos but having read on this thread that they were good I tried it. WOW. Billy & I discussed how the taco would be prepared. We decided on a soft flour tortilla with grilled fish & just some light spicy elements. To wit lime chile onion cilantro. Excellent. Next steak (beef) taco - prepared the same way - 10 out of a possible 10. The sliced beef had a fabulous flavor. Lastly I went for al pastor - again soft taco. None of this sour cream guac nonsense.

If you go there you must try the fish tacos.

Thanks Billy - we will be back. We are blessed with so many GOOD Mexican Places now. Subaijai - I know you like good Mexican - this place is gonna be your #1 joint with T&S.

Yeah they're bloody brilliant those fish tacos (once you get over the idea of them). My new favourite has to be the Quesadillas - really good. I'm eating at La Monita about three times a week since it's just round the corner from work. They seem to have a pretty regular Mexican clientle - often on the table out front, so they must be doing something right.

[powderpuff]

Great News BT. Billy wants to add crab enchaladas to the menu. YUM!!!!!!!!

[powderpuff]

JFC had the burrito. I will let him tell you how that was prepared & how he liked it.

[wordchild]

tried this place a couple of nights ago, would agree with some of the comments above; Sunrise (and coyote) are a million miles behind in terms of authenticity/ingredient quality . It is expensive (for a small shophouse cafe in the middle of a semi-abandoned precinct ) but the owner/chef has obviously put his heart and soul into this; quality above price and it shows . however the location is terrible! would be hard to pick worse and i fear they may struggle because of that.

Edited December 16, 2009 by wordchild

[wordchild]

i would add to the comment above that the guy i went with is a real Mexican food nut. he thought it was by far the best he has had in Thailand. hopefuly i will be proved wrong about the location and the place thrives because its a good addition to the Bangkok international food scene.

[powderpuff]

The location is fine. People searching for excellent Mexican food will find it.

Hopefully I conveyed the fact that you can have you food customized to your choice. Looks grim for Sun Flies

[Monita]

Just wanted to thank everyone for stopping by and for great advice. Attached is a picture from my phone of our tacos! The tacos de carne asada, lengua and chicharron have been a huge hit. Mmm getting hungry. I also wanted to thank Mr. Moo for the Tres Generaciones tequilla last night and the Cohiba. Man you made my entire month!!! I'm thinking to either make empanadas or enchiladas for next weeks special. Does anyone have a preference?

[eMzyme]

do you deliver?

are you going to join chefs xp?