Motorcycle Mafia Rant (whinging Mood Today)

[FarangBuddha]

I am curious as to the economics of the motorcycle taxi system in Pattaya and why the high costs they charge for their services. I generally don't use their services for safety reasons and because I have a car. However, on occasion, I consider using them from time to time when I am in town (after driving over from my home East Pattaya) because of the hassle factor of finding a parking spot in the next place I want to go.

Example: Yesterday, Friday, I was at parked at The Avenue and wanted to check out some things at Tuk Com. Being that it was Friday market day and the cluster-f#uck parking and driving would be in that area, I asked the moto-boys (in Thai) at the back entrance of The Avenue the price. I was quoted 30 baht...in polite Thai I suggested 20 baht. The boy asked someone who appeared to be the senior in the rank about the matter and he repeated the B30 price and said it was already down from the normal [farang/tourist] price of 40 baht. He reiterated that B30 was the Thai price. I politely declined the ride and went around to the moto-rank at the front (on Second Road).

Again I inquired as to the price. They quoted 40 baht and stuck to it. Again I politely declined and got some exercise by walking back and forth from The Avenue to Tuk Com. Now, we are not talking big money here (US$ 1.00-1.25 each way) but for such a short distance it seems excessive to me. In an aircon Bangkok taxi the price for the same distance would be no more than the flag-down with maybe one uptick or less than 40 baht. In Bali, from where I just returned from holiday, the aircon taxi flag-down in just US$ 50 cents and the cost for a ride of the distance from The Avenue to Tuk Com would have been maybe 50-75 cents...much less percentage wise than the relatively more dangerous and certainly less comfortable Pattaya moto.

I am curious as to why the Pattaya price is so high considering that the cost of a motocycle is maybe 1/20th that of a car and the cost per kilometer to operate a moto is very very low (very high gas mileage, probably no insurance, and minimal maintenance). Are the mafia pay-offs so high to "rent" their roadside spaces that they have to charge these high prices? Wouldn't they be better off charging less but having more volume...like taking me for 20 baht rather than letting the fare get away. I mean 20 baht out of 30 baht is 2/3rds the price whereas zero-baht out of 30 baht is zero percent. Are they just lazy and prefer to sit around on their <deleted> rather then ferry people around town?

TIT

[husskydog]

Best to walk, not enough of that done here in LOS

[ace]

Used to be 20 but I think they mafia'd up & decided 30 is the new 20.

[aussiechick]

I "live" on motorcycle taxis. The only ones that have ever tried to overcharge me are the ones at the beginning of Walking Street.

Most motor bike taxi drivers (from near my usual haunts) know where I live and I very rarely have to explain - was fun when I moved house though

In fact, my regular guys tell me where I haven't been lately.

Actually the motor bike taxi guys I know have families to support so they don't sit around on their <deleted>.

They came to my house at 3:00a.m. one morning when it looked like it had been robbed (hadn't, they couldn't get past the security screen door!! They then took it in turns to hang around outside for a few nights just in case!

In fact at my old house, one used to be my gardener as well!

All I can say "LONG MAY THEY BE AROUND"

[Michaelaway]

Used to be 20 but I think they mafia'd up & decided 30 is the new 20.

"...30 is the new 20." Good one!

This is not meant as instruction; only a comment. I don't know anything about mafiazation of prices (of any product) here. I ride a motorbike, so I don't have to negotiate many taxi fares. We all know you have to bargain the price of nearly everthing on the street in Thailand. And, this being Pattaya, I just figure that:

Most of the time, most of the people I ask to quote a price for anything... will ask for more than I wanna pay!

After that, it depends on so many things how the negotiations end up. Smiling, while speaking politely in Thai usually works for me... but not always. There's really no winning formula that I have found, sorry. Too many variables. I believe in speaking with people the way you'd have them speak with you- politely & with respect. But again- doesn't always work; not everybody does that. Whadaya gonna do?

One thing I do know: if any negotiation breaks down irretrievably... make sure you keep it cordial. This is Pattaya... and you just never know. Good luck!

[pattaya_girl]

The prices might not be the same as before due to the Petrol increase.

[Jimmyd]

They lose a lot of business from me because the price is so high. I only use them for fairly long distances when I'm in a hurry or lazy, otherwise I walk. I reiterate--they lose a lot of money from me because there's no way I'll pay 30 baht to go less that 2 kilometers.

[Spoonman]

To go from the Avenue to Tukom via baht bus would have cost 20b so all in all i dont think 30b for a mototaxi is over the top.

[CHdiver]

To go from the Avenue to Tukom via baht bus would have cost 20b so all in all i dont think 30b for a mototaxi is over the top.

10 Baht would be probably the right price for that....... ups now we just start the next how much for the baht bus thread

[Mobi]

There is no rhyme or reason to the increased pricing that has been going on in Pattaya over the past year or so, except to acknowledge that "This is Thailand", and they do things their way.

It seems that when ever business is bad, they decide to increase their prices to cover their losses. They do the same with unsold property or land. If they can't sell it, each year they increase the price, as opposed to anywhere else in the world where they would reduce it. They just think completely differently on these things.

There have been countless incidents of bars, restaurants, hotels and other establishments, raising their prices by exorbitant amounts - 50 %, 100% and even 200%, since the slump started.

Even Friendship Supermarket, which I have been going to and parking my car there for years, suddenly increased the parking fees from 20Baht/hr, to 40 Baht/Hr - 100% Increase! The first hour is free if you spend up to 1000 Baht, so I used to spend around 500 -700 Baht there, make a quick visit to Tuk Com just down the road, and come back in just over the hour and pay 20 Baht. I now have to pay 40 Baht - which frankly is exorbitant in Pattaya. As the OP has said, it is the principle, rather than the amount of money involved.

I have no idea whether this kind of pricing policy works, or whether it is counter productive to those who practice it. The extra money they collect in parking fees may well be lost many times over by irate customers who have so much choice of where to shop with free parking and never come back.

But it is all part and parcel of living here, and you can only wonder, and frankly, laugh.

Maybe they know something we don't - like there is a new mug born every minute, and many of these mugs one day end up in Pattaya.

[Briggsy]

1 ) Because they can

2 ) Because there is a strict code of conduct amongst motorbike taxis that they all stick together and do not undercut one another. No competition means high prices.

3 ) Because costs in Pattaya are higher than most of the rest of Thailand

4 ) Because the average farang in Thailand has a higher disposable income than the people in the rest of Thailand.

5 ) Because the motorbike taxi driver has to bung around 300 Baht a day to the police.

6 ) Because racist double pricing is alive and well and is seen to be justifiable by most people in Thailand.

Some or probably all of the above.

[FarangBuddha]

Some interesting replies. I just find it interesting that there is no seeming relationship between price and the distance traveled. As an example, sometimes I take a moto taxi from my home on soi Nernplubwan to the bus station on North Pattaya Road. This is at journey of about 2 kilometers and the standard charge by both the moto-boys near my house and at the bus station (for the return trip) is 60 baht (or B30 a kilometer). The distance from The Avenue to Tuk Com is maybe half a kilometer but they want 30 or 40 baht for this run. TIT

Another example of no relation between price and distance: When I lived in Bangkok on Suk. 24, the motos at the top of the soi charged 10 baht to go any distance down the soi to a residence or condo. The length of soi 24 from Suk. to Rama 4 is pretty long...maybe 1 kilometer or so but no matter if you went 100 meters or 990 meters to your place and it was just 10 baht. Interestingly, much cheaper than the 30-40 baht to go much less distance here in Pattaya.

Edited November 28, 2009 by FarangBuddha

[Mobi]

1 ) Because they can

2 ) Because there is a strict code of conduct amongst motorbike taxis that they all stick together and do not undercut one another. No competition means high prices.

3 ) Because costs in Pattaya are higher than most of the rest of Thailand

4 ) Because the average farang in Thailand has a higher disposable income than the people in the rest of Thailand.

5 ) Because the motorbike taxi driver has to bung around 300 Baht a day to the police.

6 ) Because racist double pricing is alive and well and is seen to be justifiable by most people in Thailand.

Some or probably all of the above.

Don't really want to get into an argument, but I would definitely dispute point No.3.

Pattaya is a much cheaper place to live in Bangkok, Phuket, Hua Hin or Chiang Mai, the other major tourist centers.

Of course Thai cities and villages outside the toursist sector are indeed cheaper, but certainly Pattaya's nearby neighbour, Bangkok, has a far higher cost of living, yet taxis, and motos are far cheaper than here. Maybe the economics work better there due to greater numbers, I couldn't comment on that as I haven't done the research

I also know from experience that the prices for taxis etc in Phuket and Koh Samui are also exorbitant. Maybe being under the control of local Mafia is the key pricing factor.

[LennyW]

I seem to have horrible memories of nothing less than 200 baht!!!!!! per journey in Phuket!!!!!????? and non negotiable!

[Baxer]

The distance from The Avenue to Tuk Com is maybe half a kilometer

No it is almost exactly 1 km.

[salty]

The distance from The Avenue to Tuk Com is maybe half a kilometer

No it is almost exactly 1 km.

I would be inclined to agree. I have often walked from The Avenue down 2nd road to catch baht bus to Jomtien. Then add from there up to Tuk Com. Far more than half a k.

[eefoo]

Not forgetting, of course, that they are in a taxi queue. If they are in a large queue, a small fare will put them to the back again and they might not get another fare for ages. The one who is quoting the price is at the front of the queue, and he (or she) might not want to go a Km down the road for a few baht when the next customer 'might' want to go to Maprachan. It's a gamble they take.

[taffylee]

I "live" on motorcycle taxis. The only ones that have ever tried to overcharge me are the ones at the beginning of Walking Street.

Most motor bike taxi drivers (from near my usual haunts) know where I live and I very rarely have to explain - was fun when I moved house though

In fact, my regular guys tell me where I haven't been lately.

Actually the motor bike taxi guys I know have families to support so they don't sit around on their <deleted>.

They came to my house at 3:00a.m. one morning when it looked like it had been robbed (hadn't, they couldn't get past the security screen door!! They then took it in turns to hang around outside for a few nights just in case!

In fact at my old house, one used to be my gardener as well!

All I can say "LONG MAY THEY BE AROUND"

These guys (end of walking street) have to pay 10'000 baht a month for their shirts, so I can understand them over charging to some degree

Edited November 29, 2009 by taffylee

[neil324]

I "live" on motorcycle taxis. The only ones that have ever tried to overcharge me are the ones at the beginning of Walking Street.

Most motor bike taxi drivers (from near my usual haunts) know where I live and I very rarely have to explain - was fun when I moved house though

In fact, my regular guys tell me where I haven't been lately.

Actually the motor bike taxi guys I know have families to support so they don't sit around on their <deleted>.

They came to my house at 3:00a.m. one morning when it looked like it had been robbed (hadn't, they couldn't get past the security screen door!! They then took it in turns to hang around outside for a few nights just in case!

In fact at my old house, one used to be my gardener as well!

All I can say "LONG MAY THEY BE AROUND"

These guys (end of walking street) have to pay 10'000 baht a month for their shirts, so I can understand them over charging to some degree

Who to?

[gharknes]

30 baht is fine by me, what I do disagree with is the 60 baht they charge if 2 up, not saying it shouldn't be slightly more maybe 40 baht but i usually just take 2 30 + 30 60baht same price as a tight squeeze on 1 bike.

[FarangBuddha]

The distance from The Avenue to Tuk Com is maybe half a kilometer

No it is almost exactly 1 km.

I would be inclined to agree. I have often walked from The Avenue down 2nd road to catch baht bus to Jomtien. Then add from there up to Tuk Com. Far more than half a k.

If you take the "back" route out through soi Bua Khow it's much shorter...probably more like half a kilometer (and there is a moto-taxi rank at the back).

Edited November 30, 2009 by FarangBuddha

[Jimmyd]

Not forgetting, of course, that they are in a taxi queue. If they are in a large queue, a small fare will put them to the back again and they might not get another fare for ages.

I understand that point, but one of the reasons they have to wait ages is a lot of people just won't take motorbikes taxis for short distances. It's a catch-22. I can't prove it, of course, but I believe their income would actually increase if they charged a reasonable amount for short distances. That's the way it worked in Bkk when I lived there many years ago.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

A topic about 10 baht? Wow.

[Jimmyd]

A topic about 10 baht? Wow.

No, that's not what this thread is about. I would summarize for you, but I doubt that would help.

[farangpattaya]

I "live" on motorcycle taxis. The only ones that have ever tried to overcharge me are the ones at the beginning of Walking Street.

Most motor bike taxi drivers (from near my usual haunts) know where I live and I very rarely have to explain - was fun when I moved house though

In fact, my regular guys tell me where I haven't been lately.

Actually the motor bike taxi guys I know have families to support so they don't sit around on their <deleted>.

They came to my house at 3:00a.m. one morning when it looked like it had been robbed (hadn't, they couldn't get past the security screen door!! They then took it in turns to hang around outside for a few nights just in case!

In fact at my old house, one used to be my gardener as well!

All I can say "LONG MAY THEY BE AROUND"

These guys (end of walking street) have to pay 10'000 baht a month for their shirts, so I can understand them over charging to some degree

That's the main cost: The rent or buying price of their 'shirts'.

I used to know several motobike-taxi drivers and it appears, that the whole motobike organization is somekind of maffia-like thing, with an hierarchy, departments, districts and so on. The organization is obviouslty run by police-officials.

Depending on location the drivers pay a certain amount per month or an amount at once. Prices per month can be THB 500 - THB 8000 and buying a shirt can be from THB 6000 up to THB 40,000.

What you pay for a ride is basically the return-price; the chances of picking up another passenger on the way back to base is very small, since there is the 'agreement' that motobike-taxis do not operate in another area. Only if you are in a remote area a motobike-taxi may stop if you ask it to.

Beliegve me, this motobike mafia things is for me the best example, that Thai not only ripp off foreigners..............they ripp off their own people as well. A ffriend was offered a 'shirt' when Avenue Shopping Mall opened. There was told, that only 20 motorbike-taxis would be postioned: 10 in front of the complex and 10 at the back. A friend 'invested' THB 1800 for his first month on the new job, but after 2 weeks, a total of 40 motorbike-taxis were active instead of 20...............40 x THB 1800 = THB 72000..........doing what?

Edited November 30, 2009 by farangpattaya

[PhilHarries]

Not forgetting, of course, that they are in a taxi queue. If they are in a large queue, a small fare will put them to the back again and they might not get another fare for ages. The one who is quoting the price is at the front of the queue, and he (or she) might not want to go a Km down the road for a few baht when the next customer 'might' want to go to Maprachan. It's a gamble they take.

And like most Thai gamblers it's heads they win, tails you lose.

To the OP, walk.

It's free, it's environmentally friendly and it's good exercise (provided you survive the minefield that constitutes sidewalks in Pattaya).

[Baxer]

The distance from The Avenue to Tuk Com is maybe half a kilometer

No it is almost exactly 1 km.

I would be inclined to agree. I have often walked from The Avenue down 2nd road to catch baht bus to Jomtien. Then add from there up to Tuk Com. Far more than half a k.

If you take the "back" route out through soi Bua Khow it's much shorter...probably more like half a kilometer (and there is a moto-taxi rank at the back).

No, it's about 945 meters that way .

If you want to check just use google earth, it's excellent for distance measurement.

[FarangBuddha]

No, it's about 945 meters that way .

If you want to check just use google earth, it's excellent for distance measurement.

Well if GOOGLE says it it must be correct

In any case, 30-40 baht to go one kilometer on a moto is pretty stiff.

[JimsKnight]

Err, best to bike it on your own bought and paid for motorbike and you never have to bother with the taxi-bikes.

Works for me.

[alstaxi]

1 ) Because they can

2 ) Because there is a strict code of conduct amongst motorbike taxis that they all stick together and do not undercut one another. No competition means high prices.

3 ) Because costs in Pattaya are higher than most of the rest of Thailand

4 ) Because the average farang in Thailand has a higher disposable income than the people in the rest of Thailand.

5 ) Because the motorbike taxi driver has to bung around 300 Baht a day to the police.

6 ) Because racist double pricing is alive and well and is seen to be justifiable by most people in Thailand.

Some or probably all of the above.

Don't really want to get into an argument, but I would definitely dispute point No.3.

Pattaya is a much cheaper place to live in Bangkok, Phuket, Hua Hin or Chiang Mai, the other major tourist centers.

Of course Thai cities and villages outside the toursist sector are indeed cheaper, but certainly Pattaya's nearby neighbour, Bangkok, has a far higher cost of living, yet taxis, and motos are far cheaper than here. Maybe the economics work better there due to greater numbers, I couldn't comment on that as I haven't done the research

I also know from experience that the prices for taxis etc in Phuket and Koh Samui are also exorbitant. Maybe being under the control of local Mafia is the key pricing factor.

I agree with your phuket/ samui price comments. They are out of whack on the price of most things at those two places, from sun glasses to golf, and everything in between. Sun glasses in Chiang Rai 80 baht, bargain down to 60 baht, Jomtien 100 baht, bargain down to 8o baht, samui/phuket 300 baht, bargain for an hour they are still 300 baht. The next tourist will pay 300 baht. If you go to samui bring sun glasses.