Have You Been To India?

[bkkmadness]

Nice post RDN, it's funny how the mention of India can have someone rambling on with memories. I have to disagree on the Taj Mahal at sunset though, sunrise really captured the moment for me as it changed from gold to white (christ were're really starting to sound like backpackers that so many people pretend to loathe on here ).

For anybody thinking of going to Indian, if you don't want a prozzy and booze filled holiday, can take a few discomforts and inconveniences with a laugh, and really like the scenery, craziness, and special moments of Thailand, then visit India, it's intensified ten fold! A truly eye opening country.

[ProfessorFart]

Nice post RDN, it's funny how the mention of India can have someone rambling on with memories

India is like that! Now its my turn!

I had a very mixed experience in India. Firstly I was on a 6 month contract in Lucknow an it was ###### and then I went travelling and it was something special.

Lucknow is a former colonial centre in UP, home to 5 million souls, and the birthplace of Cliff Richard. It has traffic that makes BKK look like a one horse town and an expat community of 0.

There is nothing there at all for the expat and in the whole city there is only 3 bars, all awful but better than nothing. Thankfully work kept me busy and it was the cricket season or I'd have gone bananas there. When my then Mrs came over for the last couple of weeks of my contract things got even worse.

I spent half my time twatting blokes who'd tried to grab her arse or her t1ts and what made it worse was that these guys were well turned out blokes who should have known better. Thank God it wasn't like Thailand where they don't stick together once you belt one of them.

It was worse for her as she couldn't even leave the house alone without getting hassled. She once went to the shop 50 yards from my house and came back before she'd even gone ten yards after a car had stopped and two blokes had tried to grab her t1ts (nothe that she was always covered up.) and on another occasion she'd gone to the local internet cafe only to be followed home by 4 blokes whosoon scarpered as soon as I came out.

When we went into town or sightseeing we'd get a crowd of about 20 onlookers at every turn, some just interested, some sleazy but always a hassle.

It had been our plan to travel around India after my contract was up but we gave serious thought to hopping on a train to Calcutta and heading straight to SEA instead. We decided however to give it a go and see how it went.

Once out of 'little India' it was a totally differenet experience.

People were polite, helpful and courteous (bar one or two incidents) and when I told Indians about our experiences in Lucknow they were horrified.

From Lucknow we went to Varanasi and then South to Hampi (Via a few out of the way places) which is such an amazingly beautiful place it is impossible to put into words. All I can say is that its the closest I'll ever be to walking on the surface of the moon as well as the closest I'll ever be to staying in Fawlty Towers at the KSTDC hotel.

From there we went to Bangalore and were there for the Milennium. I'd heard that Bangalore was a pretty happening town but we never expected it to be quite as cool as it was. We ended up staying there for 10 days during which time I made a packet on the horses and we blew in the bars. It was then, after remembering how good a cold beer tasted after a day on the go, that we decided to head for SEA sooner rather than later.

We wrapped up our time in India with a 44 hour train ride to Agra, then to Dehli, then to Mussoorie which RDN has already superbly described here (although he should have taken the cable car up Gun Hill) All I'll add to his description is the walk up to Sister's Bazaar from where you can see the Himalayas rising up and stretching away into the distance, is one of the most amazing sights I've ever seen!

From there we took the train through to Calcutta and on to BKK where we spent 3 hours and god knows how much brass guzzling good beer in the Airport!

The over riding memory of India for me apart from some of the amazing scenery will always be riding the rails with my ex by my side. Even though we had a nasty split a few months later I still treasure those memories.

Some of the train journeys we took were just amazing. I long to go back and ride the rails again............................

[bkkmadness]

Set this as my wallpaper, think I'll aim for a visit to India late this year or maybe early next, something to look forward to.

Funny how a 12 hr train journey in Thailand is something worth avoiding like the plague, but a 44 hr one through India is amazing.

Edited April 14, 2005 by bkkmadness

[bartender100]

Something I have been thinging about for a long time,but keep putting off,amazing not one negative post.Maybe later this I will year try and spend a couple months their.It was the long train journeys that worried me.

bkkmadness,that pic is a fantastic view.

[bkkmadness]

It was the long train journeys that worried me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And its the train journeys that everyone seems to mention here as one of the highlights of their trip, so your've got no excuses now!

Ok, following something taxexile said about being glad to leave despite having a good time, I have to be totally honest and say I felt relieved to leave there at first, and I remember coming to Thailand and being in Bangkok the first night drunk on a bottle of vodka, glad to be here and not there.

A surprising confession from someone who just wrote loads of posts saying how he loved it, but I think it was just my frame of mind at the time and the fact that India is very chaotic sometimes, especially when it comes to getting from A to B.

It was the first time I had left the UK apart from a few days in Amsterdam and 21, travelling alone which gave it a massive adventure factor, but also sometimes a stress factor as well. Saying that the first time I hit Mumbai was far freakeir than the second time I passed through it a few months later, I suppose you just get used to it a bit more, and perhaps any country would have had the same effect on me.

The trick to India I think is not to travel around too much, but find a place chill there for a good amount of time before you move on.

It was only after a couple of months in sanatised Thailand with it's 7/11s/travel agents everywhere and bars that I really started to miss the place, and when I got home I bored more people with my tales of India than Thailand. I loved Thailand, still do, don't get me wrong, but India was something really worth talking about as you have probably noticed from the long positive posts on this topic.

It's certainly not for everyone and can really freak people out if they haven't travelled anywhere before so you do need to be a bit 'travel savvy' and I expect anyone of the people reading this already have that savvy.

The beggars in Mumbai/Bombay can freak you out, people telling you the train station is closed when it isn't so they can sell you more expensive tickets can p.iss you off, but I would say the negatives that are with India are vastly outweighed by the splendour and experience it gives you.

[bkkmadness]

some great photos from this guy's site.

[RDN]

Nice post RDN, it's funny how the mention of India can have someone rambling on with memories.  I have to disagree on the Taj Mahal at sunset though, sunrise really captured the moment for me as it changed from gold to white (christ were're really starting to sound like backpackers that so many people pretend to loathe on here ).

For anybody thinking of going to Indian, if you don't want a prozzy and booze filled holiday, can take a few discomforts and inconveniences with a laugh, and really like the scenery, craziness, and special moments of Thailand, then visit India, it's intensified ten fold!  A truly eye opening country.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From gold to white at sunrise, eh? I'll try to get there early next time . But at sunset it goes from white to pink. I have one really spectacular picture of the Taj in pink, where the flash went off and lit up the overhanging branch of a tree, so it was all green in the top left corner with a pink Taj Mahal in the background .

Totally agree about the scenery being ten times that of Thailand. Even the incredibly colourful clothes that people - women - wear every day is amazing. It's as if you've been living in a black and white world, and then you go to India and the colour hits you. Amazing.

[bkkmadness]

First time I saw it was at sunset, but a scouser I was hanging about with forced me into an early morning do, morning spliff then Taj Mahal at sunrise, so I got the best of both worlds.

He had a great way of dealing with all the sellers in India too, whenever someone offered him something he only offered them 10 rupees, so the stereo sellers in Dehli left him alone for offering such a crazy price and he got handicrafts first quoted at 200 rupees for 10 rupees too.

I suppose that's a scouser thing .

Colours, as vibrant as the life in India. It's a wake up call travelling in the country.

Edited April 14, 2005 by bkkmadness

[RDN]

....then to Mussoorie which RDN has already superbly described here (although he should have taken the cable car up Gun Hill)  All I'll add to his description is the walk up to Sister's Bazaar from where you can see the Himalayas rising up and stretching away into the distance, is one of the most amazing sights I've ever seen! ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, I just can't stop thinking about India! Excellent post Prof, but you brought back even more memories!

About the cable car... I realised after my ex's freak-out on the walk up Gun Hill that the reason she wanted to walk because she was sh1t-scared of going in the cable car!

More memories...

When we arrived at Jaipur by bus, at the bus station we were surrounded by 20 or 30 taxi drivers. You think you have a problem with tuk-tuk drivers in Patong? Hah! Try Jaipur bus station. We tried to get through the crowd to a hotel about 100 yards away, but as we got close to each taxi driver, he would say "Taxi sir?". So I would say "No thanks" and take another step. Then the next taxi driver would say "Taxi sir?" and I would say "No thanks" and wonder why he didn't hear my response to the previous guy 2 seconds earlier. Eventually I started to freak out. You can't really imagine being surrounded by a mass of smiling faces all asking the same thing. It was like a bad dream, a nightmare. Anyway, after about 5 or 6 "No thanks" I did really freak out. I shouted very loudly - the sort of shout the comes from deep down in your gut - and I said "Go aWAY!". It was so loud it even shocked my ex. She said later she'd never heard anything so loud in her life. Anyway, the sea of brown faces all swayed backwards as if an explosion had gone off and they were blown backwards. And it went deadly quiet - apart from one little Indian voice who chirped up: "No need to shout, sir". Looking back, I can see the funny side, but at the time I was freaked.

Anyway, we got to the hotel eventually, leaving the taxi drivers to chatter amongst themselves about the Englishman with the loud voice. And one of them was lucky enough later - after we'd had a drink and calmed down - to take us to our hotel.

Delhi Belly: I suffered from it all the time I was in India. It started soon after I arrived in Delhi, because I had breakfast - chicken curry - at a 5 star hotel in Delhi where we met our hosts. Big mistake, and all the pills I took couldn't stop it. It was like having a vice in your stomach being slowly tightened more and more. It was just something we both had and had to live with.

English language: nowhere in the world have I heard the English language spoken so clearly and so perfectly correctly. Absolutely wonderful to hear.

On one of my walks out of the house in Delhi, I found an old Chevrolet Impala parked. I had a Dinky toy of this car when I was a kid, and seeing it parked in Delhi was simply amazing. I took several pictures of it - another reason to get my photo album from England.

Dehradun taxi driver: we arranged with the guy who drove us to the Savoy Hotel in Mussoorie from Dehradun airport to pick us up for the return trip. On our last night in Mussoorie we spotted him asleep in his taxi in the hotel car park . Bless!

The beggars: bkkmadness mentioned the beggars. There was one particular beggar we saw at a stopping point on one of our bus trips. We both saw him from our seats in the bus - he had a couple of walking sticks, one hand had no fingers and he was incredibly thin, but the thing that I will never forget was his face. He had the most beautiful smile I have ever seen. Yes, he was a man but his face was incredible. He looked straight at me, smiling and the look in his eyes was like "You think you've got problems? Look at me!" And still he was smiling. Unforgettable.

[bkkmadness]

Anyway, after about 5 or 6 "No thanks" I did really freak out. I shouted very loudly - the sort of shout the comes from deep down in your gut - and I said "Go aWAY!". It was so loud it even shocked my ex. She said later she'd never heard anything so loud in her life. Anyway, the sea of brown faces all swayed backwards as if an explosion had gone off and they were blown backwards. And it went deadly quiet - apart from one little Indian voice who chirped up: "No need to shout, sir".      

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now that is India! What kind of country is this that can bring back so many memories? It's been in my thoughts all day. Kudos to Neeranam for starting the topic .

The taxi drivers are amazing there, I had one on the way to Mumbai train station that crashed into a pedestrian (at a slow pace, no one was hurt) and didn't batter an eyelid, but screeched to a stop first sign of a sacred cow!

Save the money on the thaivisa pissups and lets do a thaivisa trip to India!

Second thoughts, I loved the country as a lone traveller, it increases the madness

Edited April 15, 2005 by bkkmadness

[taxexile]

amazing india.

at simla railway station (simla is a town on a hill , not unlike the hillside town pictured above) which is at the bottom of the hill there were porters who would carry you piggy back style from the station up the hill , (no roads , just steps) to your hotel or guest house.

at a restaurant in kashmir , in an out of the way town , there was a sink on the wall that customers used for washing hands before eating. it was also used by the waiters as a urinal. customers had to go to the drain behind the kitchen.

a taxi in agra , a clapped out ambassador (the 1957 morris oxford variant) , the fuel tank was a 5 litre plastic bottle that had to held by the front passenger. a tube ran from the bottle through the dashboard to the engine.

a post office in varanasi.

to buy a stamp you had to queue to get a form , fill out the form , join another queue to present the form , wait whilst your chit was prepared and then sit and wait for your number to be called , when your number was called you went to get your postage stamp. the man tearing off the stamps from the sheet had no fingers , it took him forever.

changing money in a bank in agra ,

the teller would write down the serial number of each banknote he gave you.

rickshaw drivers who , if you used their services one day , would sleep in the rickshaw overnight outside your guest house so as to be there in the morning in case you wanted them the next day. if you wanted to walk , they would pedal behind you , sometimes three or four of them , for as long as it took ,until you just felt so guilty that you would give up the idea of a walk and use the rickshaw.

all this was in the eighties , i dont know if things have changed all that much now.

but the whole experience of being there was surreal. its an upside down world.

[Neeranam]

Many thanks for the great replies and experiences from all, esp. RDN, Prof. Fart, Bkkmadness, and taxexile.

I had almost forgotten how bizarre that country is.

I learned so much from my experience there. One thing that comes to mind today is how to stay calm when disaster strikes. My car broke down tonight right in the middle of Khona kaen , where the Songkran festivities were in full swing, and I thought I had escaped without getting a wetting. All eyes were on me trying to puch my car to the side of the road with my daughter in my arms, while getting soaked by passing pick-ups. I phoned for the garge guy to come but he was pissed. Instead a dwarf appeared(on a little kiddies motorbike about 2 feet high. and quickly got into the the bonnet of the car.

He had to stand on the front tire and all I could see were his feet. As the passing crowds still soaked me I saw the funny side of things, and managed not to hit anyone. Quite bizarre! He tried to start the car but couldn't reach the pedals!

When i frst arrived in Asia, in Bombay I went down to the sea front near the gate of India and had rats running over my sandalled feet, there was a guy who had a dog and some tins on the sidewalk. The dog got ont he first one the size of a bucket and the guy started to put smaller ones on top. At the end this little dog was standing on a tin the size of a baked beans tin about 6 feet in the air!

The first restauant I went to for a plate of porridge was full of about 50 Indians eating the same and every single one was starign at me. I started to give them that 'hard stare' back as if to say what the &lt;deleted&gt; are you looking at, as happens back home, but quickly realised that this wasn't working and this country was NOT the same as Scotland!

I was amazed at the crowd that got up for absolutely nothing. I started having an argument with a guy in Panaji about changing money and a couple of guys stopped to watch. in about a couple of minutes there must have been a hundred.

The same in Calcutta train station when I tried to eat a mango with a penknife.

I recall how some of the beggars with absolutely nothing had an amazing smile - they were content with their place in ife, a great lesson for me.

Then there was the guy who came up to me in Rishikesh and stuck a big kitchen knife through his lower arm and then asked me for money while wiping away the amazingly little amount of blood.

There was the guy in Delhi park who came up to me and knew everything about me, my name, my age, my father's name. he really freaked me out when he started to tell me of my future. Still to this day I wonder about how he knew. I had just arrived in Delhi from Amhedabad.

The sea full of shits in Poona, where the fishermen did their business, roped off from the rest of the beach, but the shits didn't seem to drift off.

Sitting in Manali, outside a coffee shop with a bunch of dopers passing the chillum, looking at the mountains. The saddhus doing the 'bomb shankar' stuff.

The naked Saddhus!

The dead people on the streets.

The Golden temple.

Getting a gun pulled on us at the Taj Mahal for taking photos in teh inside bit.

Swimmign in the monsoon sea in Goa, foolishly as 7 indians died doing the same.

Getting attcked by monkeys on Mt Abu.

Meeting HH The Dalai Lama.

Riding a bicycle rickshaw in Agra with the guy sitting like a king in the back and 1000 Indians watching in disbelief.

Getting stuck in a house with some heavies and made buy a picture, which I didn't. I said I had to see how it looked in Sunlight and when they opened the doors, ran like **$#.

The guy with female and male body parts on the train.

Waking up in the middle of the night on a train under my sheet to hide myself, with 3 soldier with guns sitting on top of me! Don't know who got the biggest shock.

The guy in Calcutta who spent most the day with his head buried in the pavement, whilst upright.

The hotel in the lake in Udaipur.

the beetel chewing rickshaw drivers.

The cow in Haridwar who started eating a greengrocers shop. It was left to finish what it wanted.

the traffic jam in the same town because of a couple of cows in the road.

The two bulls having a fight in the market place.

i am getting carried away, but again thanks for bringing back these memories.

Oh, and the bus trip up North when the bus with no windows stopped on the road and we had to sleep the night in it due to fog. The driver had a guy on his kneeworking the lights! When we woke up we were about 5 minutes from the hotel!

Edited April 15, 2005 by Neeranam

[bkkmadness]

ok, I will chuck a couple more out.

Scoring some smoke in Dehli, being led all the way to the train station, down to the rails to see a Sadhu in his home made monkey temple who sorted us out.

When I stayed with the family in S. Goa, they sent in their 18 yr old beautiful Indian virgin daughter called Varsha, to wash me everyday , being 21 and a man, when I left she wasn't a virgin anymore .

I still to this day do not realise why I left though, it was a perfect life, fishing all day, and back home to be bathed by this sultry young Indian temptress, in fact thinking about it now, I must have been pretty f.ucking stupid to have left .

I think I was on for looking for a bit more adventure, sometimes you don't realise how good you have got it!

Edited April 15, 2005 by bkkmadness

[Neeranam]

When I stayed with the family in S. Goa, they sent in their 18 yr old beautiful Indian virgin daughter called Varsha, to wash me everyday  , being 21 and a man, when I left she wasn't a virgin anymore  .

Wow, that's the type of thing that I used to dream/fantacize about when a teenager. Those Goan women are so beautiful!

Sometimes we make the wrong decisions, but you can always go back. But that temptress will probably have a big fat ass by now One negative thing about Indian women.

sometimes you don't realise how good you have got it!

Very true. There are ways I practise having gratitude for what I have today. Someone once showed me how to write a gratitude list when things were coming 'commonplace'.

[Sir Burr]

Ahhhhh........India....

Spent five months as a long-haired, 21 year old hippy travelling around India in 1980. Ended up working on the Tamil Nadu, Andrha Pradesh and Gujarat beaches from 1982 to 1986. Go back two thousand years. Was given really neat toys to play with too, like air-boats, ATV's and dynamite.

Love India, love the food, love the history.

[Khun Ngo]

Nobody has mentioned the amazing Israelis yet!

[RDN]

Nobody has mentioned the amazing Israelis yet!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sure lots of Israelis have been to India

[The Gentleman Scamp]

I was told by a close friend NOT to go.

He actually liked it but after seeing how pissed off I got with the beggars in Cambodia upon my first visit three years ago, he stongly advised me to avoid India.

[bkkmadness]

Your've gotta broaden your horizons Scamp, can't be sitting round bars in Bangkok all the time thinking your the adventurous one of the family .

[RDN]

I was told by a close friend NOT to go.

He actually liked it but after seeing how pissed off I got with the beggars in Cambodia upon my first visit three years ago, he stongly advised me to avoid India.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's a bit like saying "Don't go to Thailand if you don't like mosquitos"

[The Gentleman Scamp]

Your've gotta broaden your horizons Scamp, can't be sitting round bars in Bangkok all the time thinking your the adventurous one of the family .

Is that really how you see me Madness? Tut tut my friend, those were the early days! ...And they were good days too.

That's a bit like saying "Don't go to Thailand if you don't like mosquitos"

True RD, true - but I didn't say I would never go, I would like to one day and at least when I do I will be prepared for those pesky hawkers and leppers, maybe i'll discover another use for mozzie spray.

Edited April 17, 2005 by The Gentleman Scamp

[chuchok]

Very interesting thread guys.I orig ticked the "no, I won't" box,but after reading your reports, it has started to make me think a little different.

Edited April 17, 2005 by chuchok

[Insight]

Very interesting thread guys.I orig ticked the "no, I won't" box,but after reading your reports, it has started to make me think a little different.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Same here. Got typical Monday blues (fed up with job, a few things around here etc) and this thread has given me a bit of a kick - perhaps an idea for a solo holiday this year or somethin'.

Still, will carry on reading for a few more posts before I make a vote. Bottom line for India still seems to be "you'll either love it or hate it".

[tutsiwarrior]

I've never been to India nor do I intend going...just too old and used to 3 star hotel comfort and not as adventurous as when young. But I must say that some of the descriptions posted on this thread are some of the best descriptive travel writing I've ever read...

way to go, folks!

[bkkmadness]

Plenty of 3-5 star hotels in India Tutsi.

[taxexile]

a couple more india memories.

in delhi , near the big railway station , i saw a group of 10 men crawling on the ground in single file , pushing coconuts with their foreheads.

people were giving them money , collected by some kids walking behind.

they had crawled all the way from kerala , about 1500 miles south ,and were on their way to rishikesh in the himalayas for some religious festival , it had taken them 6 months to reach delhi and would take another 6 months to reach their destination.

in varanasi

cars with bodies tied on the roof racks , wrapped in a sheet but with arms and feet dangling , making their slow way through the midday traffic to the riverside where they would be cremated.

in himachel pradesh

barefoot shepherds , trudging through the snowfields high above manali , bringing their flocks over the high passes , a four day journey.

dancing bears on leashes leaping out in front of cars on the delhi agra road , cars have to stop and the collection tin is handed round by the bear handlers.

[bkkmadness]

they do some crazy religious treks over there.

[aaaaaa]

a couple more india memories.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

one mine memory here;

Haridwar, spring '99 - last large Kumbha Mela festival of 20th century, also in the suspence of what'd happen at Y2K. forgot how many millions ppl from all over country as well as many other countries, especially neighbouring such as Nepal were there - but was VERY impressive. all those naga babas - naked holy guys wearing nothing more than ashes, and then their fight with sannyasis for privelege who'd take bath in the river first ! their tridents were much more dangerous than sadhus' dandas ! and elefants procession etc etc

otherwise - a lot of other memories all over India. excrements on the beach in Madras (Chennai), boy-thief stealing my bag induring short stop in Agra, bengali sweets, Bangalore natural air-condition city, countless small places in rural area.... yeah - taxi drivers in big cities like N. Dheli or Calcutta .... etc etc

lot of positive and negative impressions - well, pretty much as any country in the world can give to visitor. culture is definetely rich, while country is over crowded, with a lot of issues originating there. but some how nice to visit it. feel almost like at home there - although wouldn't live there or recommend it to others. visit and spend time - yes - live - no.

[aaaaaa]

I was told by a close friend NOT to go.

He actually liked it but after seeing how pissed off I got with the beggars in Cambodia upon my first visit three years ago, he stongly advised me to avoid India.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

BTW, about piss .... since nopbody has mentioned it yet as I see.

youcan get realy pissed off not only with beggers but with .... piss !

seriously! it is normal for men to pee on the walkways - even in front of women in bright day time. and it realy can make one get pissed off sometimes - like you walk on the street and guys staying releiving themselves, the piss spreading everywhere, covering almost or all walkable space - and the stench, stench !

reminds me of a lecture I've heard once by some indian scholar - sort of outspoken guy actually, but quite honest. he was speaking on ocasion of Independence day: "... and as soon as British left - we'd pulled out our 'pens' and started to pee everywhere "

[ExNewMex]

So far, I've only managed to get to Mumbai. Seemed like a nice enough place for the short time I was there. Chaotic, but I expected that....

I was a bit overwhelmed by the sheer volume of people though