Anyone Have Schindlers List With Thai Subs?

[Jingthing]

I am in Munich now.

I see S-Bahn commuter trains with Dachau on the front.

Nobody freaks out.

Well, not exactly. I visited Dachau and it freaked me out to walk on the grounds there.

[goldfinger]

Whilst you are at it OP, why don't you show your GF the "braveheart" movie. Easy to follow and entertaining the movie clearly demonstrates just a fraction of the atrocities committed by the English.

Of course, I'm sure you'll understand if she decides to boycott English sausage.

OP says clearly he is "British" .....not english....

[Moonrakers]

Whilst you are at it OP, why don't you show your GF the "braveheart" movie. Easy to follow and entertaining the movie clearly demonstrates just a fraction of the atrocities committed by the English.

Of course, I'm sure you'll understand if she decides to boycott English sausage.

OP says clearly he is "British" .....not english....

His profile suggests that he is English, which means that he is also British.

[MrHammer]

Why Schindler's List if you want to show her what happened during WW2? That movie was pretty emotinally manipulating and not factually correct. The problem with guys like Spielberg is that their movies become almost recognized as historical truth and not as fiction.

And I think your girlfriend is correct. It was a long time ago and none of us had anything to do with it. Like Rammstein said when people were accusing them of being Nazi's "We don't have blood on our hands". Give it a rest.

[Jingthing]

Why Schindler's List if you want to show her what happened during WW2? That movie was pretty emotinally manipulating and not factually correct. The problem with guys like Spielberg is that their movies become almost recognized as historical truth and not as fiction.

Good point in theory.

There are many films which are strictly historical documentaries and would be of interest to a student making a serious academic study of the subject. However, most people wouldn't be that interested to watch those kinds of films. For example, the NINE hour film, Shoah. Nine hours. Get my point?

Edited December 3, 2009 by Jingthing

[MrHammer]

How about this one:

Der Untergang

Much better movie.

[MrHammer]

Why Schindler's List if you want to show her what happened during WW2? That movie was pretty emotinally manipulating and not factually correct. The problem with guys like Spielberg is that their movies become almost recognized as historical truth and not as fiction.

Good point in theory.

There are many films which are strictly historical documentaries and would be of interest to a student making a serious academic study of the subject. However, most people wouldn't be that interested to watch those kinds of films. For example, the NINE hour film, Shoah. Nine hours. Get my point?

Sure, but there are in fact REAL films available from back then if someone wants to get it from the source. The German movie industry was very productive in the 20's-30's. If you are after what the OP wants to show (i.e. the cruelty and hate of the Nazi's), then 'Der Eiwige Jude' is available online. That's a 'chilling' movie because it's the real deal, not typical Hollywood, philharmonica production.

Edit: My grandfather actually fought in the war against the Germans and was in prison camp for a year, he always made a point to the horror of war and hate, yet he never blamed the Germans as a whole for the attrocities commited by some.

Edited December 3, 2009 by MrHammer

[mahtin]

And my father lost two brothers in the FIRST world war, also against the Germans.

Why don't we get back to the present, and Thailand?

[leftcross]

im not sorry that i think the deaths of 50 million people two generations ago still bothers me and that i hold the perpatrators responsible. i believe that to think otherwise would be an insult to all those who died fighting them.

Your logic seems a bit twisted and hypocritical. Who are the perpetrators in your mind? Ze Germans of today? How is it my fault what had happened 70 years ago? My parents werent even born yet when all of this had happened.

Also, how can you live with yourself eating British food then and immersing yourself in British culture given Britain's colonial past? Your former life in the UK must have been just one big walk of shame. Did you apologise to every African immigrant you met?

I dont wanna point fingers here, but this statement

i am british and my wife always asks me lots of questions when i refuse to eat or drink in places that are linked to germany. when i try to tell her why, she just says ''it was a long time ago, don't worry'' etc etc.

is just hypocrisy at its best.

my original post was just to get hold of the movie. i didnt want to get into a debate about the whole issue, as this is not the place.

some may think that the deaths of 50 million are forgotten when that generation passes, but i do not. perhaps this is relevant to thailand after all.

we hear of the reds and yellows, of the blind devotion on both sides and of the subsequent dehumanising of all those who do not agree with that mode of thinking. there doesnt seem to be a middle ground or a a way forward.

i must admit i do see comparisons and i would like to show my wife some historical context. these things have happened before and we must learn from them.

she may watch the movie and say ''so what'' but knowledge is power and without it we pander to the lowest common denominator.

[bina]

ok, i will respond, after thinking about this for about twenty minutes:

half of my kibbutz was set up by holocaust survivors. i have a problem dealing with germans. its a sort of knee jerk relfex thing that has probably been built in to me for the past thirty + years both by american jewish immigrant parents ang living in israel. in our international glass factory we had older members walk out whent hey heard we were shipping products to germany. we just hsd a very respected group of proffessors germany stay at our hotel. several of our staff had a more difficult time with hearing german around them. its not holding the sins of the fathers so much as most of us know people or had people in the holocaust or survivors and its imprinted in our brains, to dislike the sound of german , not want to buy german or whatever.

its not logical. its emotional. anyhow: to the subject at hand. i have tried several times to find info on the holocaust in thai for anon to read or see (movies are better for less educated folks, easier to 'read'). since every year we have holocaust day rememberance ceremonies and discussions, he will have to learn about this time period. little by little he is learning and getting interested. it holds no emotional association for him apart from the fact that he has a hard time seeing horrible things happen to people. however, when i point out that so and so who has a number on his arm was in such asd such a place , it makes it more real for him. living in israel, he will learn about this. i did think htat schindlers list was a bit long. and he has to see movies that are dubbed not subtitles as he doesnt read so fast.

then there is yad v'shem, the museum. problem being that i hate going there with a passion, understandably. for him it will be a 'learn about your surroundings' thing; i dont excpect that he will really care. as someone said: the thai tend to let things just sort of go... they dont dwell.

so if someone finds a copy that i can get (cant download slow computer ) with thai dubbed, i would too be interested.

bina

israel

[KASABIAN]

Although serious and a bit of a depressing subject some interesting points have been made so lets lighten things up a bit, after all, it is nearly Christmas...

[onnut]

OP sounds like a right idiot. Anyway, I hope you get the movie and your wife understands the mixed signals that you're sending her as obviously Schindler is a good guy AND a German.

Grow up son.

well said Mick, wafp the op is!

And to the OP, you are missing out on some good food and beer!

[onnut]

Whilst you are at it OP, why don't you show your GF the "braveheart" movie. Easy to follow and entertaining the movie clearly demonstrates just a fraction of the atrocities committed by the English.

Of course, I'm sure you'll understand if she decides to boycott English sausage.

[Jingthing]

Bottom line, it is good to learn about history and any remnants of irrational aversion to modern Germans and their wunderbar motor cars will completely diminish in the fullness of time. May we look forward to a future German Jewish Woody Allen?

[emsfeld]

Had you opened your thread with this post,

we hear of the reds and yellows, of the blind devotion on both sides and of the subsequent dehumanising of all those who do not agree with that mode of thinking. there doesnt seem to be a middle ground or a a way forward.

i must admit i do see comparisons and i would like to show my wife some historical context. these things have happened before and we must learn from them.

she may watch the movie and say ''so what'' but knowledge is power and without it we pander to the lowest common denominator.

the general opinion and response as to where this thread has headed would have been much different. I don't have an issue at all with you trying to bring historical examples to your wife's attention to point out the extent as to where blind trust in propaganda by state/ government influenced/ controlled media can lead to a people's (wrong) perception of reality.

Unfortunately, your opening post was phrased quite differently, hence the reactions you are getting.

In regards to future generations having to continue bearing the responsibility of sins committed by their grandfather's I can only disagree. The responsibility to learn from what had happened - yes. To take responsibility - no.

If you bother looking into Germany's post '45 history, I think you can see what the general attitude towards war is. This attitude is very deeply rooted due to the holocaust and us as a nation not wanting to make the same mistakes again.

Funnily enough, also very much frowned upon on a political level by our American and British friends considering Germany's stance towards recent (particularly 2001 - today) military actions in the Middle East.

Edited December 3, 2009 by emsfeld

[bina]

hopefully we wont have to close this thread;

last year, around holocaust day, i had made a similar request. its obvious to me that thai history would stress, if at all, anyhting that was involving asia and not europe. however, i know more about asian historyt hen my husband knows about any european history. and living israel, its obvious that he would have to learn about israeli/jewish history (since i am ethnically jewish, and not muslem arab, cause if i was, he would probably have to learn from that viewpoint). so the holocaust is on the list of MUST KNOWS.

however, an underlying problem as many will point out is the poor education of some of our SO's, the poor education in thailand in general, the very ethnocentric education (understandably so but still), and the general thai cultural 'shooulder shrug and 'who cares that was then, this is now, pass the som tom "...

in general , as we have discussed elsewhere on this board, we as europeans/anglos/westerners in general, are somewhat more obsessed with THE PAST. therefore we have this urge to eddify our better half with OUR past. which is all that the OP wanted to do.

mahtins, actually when i saw the word Dachau when i was in berlin (before the wall fell)my heart did skip a beat or two.

actually, in thailandwith my duaghter --who had a year before been on a school trip to poland for part of holocaust studies they do in high school-- saw the crematorium near my husband's village, it really had a shocking affect on her. it also did on me since our 100% association is of course with those other crematoriums.

this is really where cultural differences show up the strongest. around past traumatic events that are in the collective memory of some, but for others, barely exist. wanting to show a movie to our 'better half' to make a certain time period more real is a legitimate activity.

ive found that anon's world knowlege expands with his access to movies, discovery channel tv, and internet. non of which he had when he was growing up in korat.events that he didnt know existed up til know suddenly interest him as he sees living examples daily while living here. if he wasnt interested, then i of course woouldnt bother him with it all. but then again, i wouldnt have chosen a husband that didnt have intelligence or curiousity about our world. lack of education is something that can be rectified by exposure.

since my son is now in active duty in the army, my husband suddenly has become more interested in daily news items, history of middle east (obviously frmo my biased perspective, but an improvement on the issaan 'if its not food its not itneresting' perspective.) , and often leading to more personal discussions of death/dying (since that could be an obvious result of being in army).

to those that responded with out emotional intelligence, the OP is not trolling

nasty comments both about germans or about those that catn deal with germans will not be tolerated.

the OP brought up a fascinating topic. one which i think is more interesting then the usual TV gripes of 'why do thais do this that or the other...topics'.

we all come from diverse backgrounds with different emotional responses to situations.

if this thread degenerates further, it will be closed, which would be a pity since the topic here isnt so much the holocaust or war, but really about our thai partners' learning about history from, i guess, our perspectives (western), and by using a medium like the cinema for a teaching tool.

do i get an A for my essay? )

bina

israel

[EvilDrSomkid]

Good post bina.

I have not seen Schindler's List and have no wish to see it either. I would not want to show it to my wife either. Too horrible.

However, it is interesting that Thai people have almost no knowledge of things that are important to westerners. I was thinking the other day that it would be cool to watch Life of Brian with my wife. But then I thought, would she think its funny? If you know nothing about the life of Jesus or the bible, the movie would be out of context and at the outrageousness of it would be lost.

Same with Quest for the Holy Grail. Hilarious, but maybe not so funny if you are unaware of the reason WHY its funny.

My wife is an intelligent person and likes to learn, but she has told me that when it comes to history or geography she does not give a crap.

[goldfinger]

to the OP,

do you really think, viewing Schindlers list will provide enough information for your wife to understand what happened?

90 minutes film cannot explain 12 to 15 years of german(and european) history.

And if Auschwitz or Dachau is too far away from you, you can visit Phnom Penh, in Cambodia happened something similar

only 35 years ago.

[endure]

If you want something a little more realistic than Schindler's List get a copy of 'Paragraph 175'. It contains interviews with survivors of the camps. Don't watch it unless you have a strong stomach.

[lazygourmet]

If you want something a little more realistic than Schindler's List get a copy of 'Paragraph 175'. It contains interviews with survivors of the camps. Don't watch it unless you have a strong stomach.

... or get the nine hours Shoah documentary by Claude Lanzman -on free loan- at l'Alliance Francaise

[lazygourmet]

Holocaust by Martin Gray is coming as well to my mind... and apparently his best seller on which the movie is based as been translated in Thai language. You might be able to order it in a Seeds bookshop.

[thaimiller]

to the OP,

do you really think, viewing Schindlers list will provide enough information for your wife to understand what happened?

90 minutes film cannot explain 12 to 15 years of german(and european) history.

And if Auschwitz or Dachau is too far away from you, you can visit Phnom Penh, in Cambodia happened something similar

only 35 years ago.

Ive recently got back from Phnom Pehn, the killing fields are very hard hitting and if you need any example of this kind of subject take your GF there.

[villagefarang]

The list of atrocities done in the name of gods, religions, kings, power, greed, prejudice …well the list is quite long indeed. They are all interchangeable as educational tools to enlighten about the cruelty of humanity. With plenty to choose from, no need to get too hung-up on any particular one.

[needforspeed]

ok, i will respond, after thinking about this for about twenty minutes:

half of my kibbutz was set up by holocaust survivors. i have a problem dealing with germans. its a sort of knee jerk relfex thing that has probably been built in to me for the past thirty + years both by american jewish immigrant parents ang living in israel. in our international glass factory we had older members walk out whent hey heard we were shipping products to germany. we just hsd a very respected group of proffessors germany stay at our hotel. several of our staff had a more difficult time with hearing german around them. its not holding the sins of the fathers so much as most of us know people or had people in the holocaust or survivors and its imprinted in our brains, to dislike the sound of german , not want to buy german or whatever.

its not logical. its emotional. anyhow: to the subject at hand. i have tried several times to find info on the holocaust in thai for anon to read or see (movies are better for less educated folks, easier to 'read'). since every year we have holocaust day rememberance ceremonies and discussions, he will have to learn about this time period. little by little he is learning and getting interested. it holds no emotional association for him apart from the fact that he has a hard time seeing horrible things happen to people. however, when i point out that so and so who has a number on his arm was in such asd such a place , it makes it more real for him. living in israel, he will learn about this. i did think htat schindlers list was a bit long. and he has to see movies that are dubbed not subtitles as he doesnt read so fast.

then there is yad v'shem, the museum. problem being that i hate going there with a passion, understandably. for him it will be a 'learn about your surroundings' thing; i dont excpect that he will really care. as someone said: the thai tend to let things just sort of go... they dont dwell.

so if someone finds a copy that i can get (cant download slow computer ) with thai dubbed, i would too be interested.

bina

israel

Bina,

Each and everyone person who was a victim off violence need to deal with his or her traumatic experience, talking with fellow victims and professional help and love ones what causes a lots of emotion during a long period.

That doesnt mean that you need to drag your love ones into the same situation of hate and pain as this road is a absolute energy consuming way of living.

Forgive and forget to safe your own live and give your energy to give attention and love to others.

Ones a victim myself

[carmine]

Whilst you are at it OP, why don't you show your GF the "braveheart" movie. Easy to follow and entertaining the movie clearly demonstrates just a fraction of the atrocities committed by the English.

Of course, I'm sure you'll understand if she decides to boycott English sausage.

Moonrakers,whilst i agree with your sentiments, it would not be a good idea to watch Braveheart, because anyone who knows their history would know that the film is absurdly factually incorrect, a fiction conjured up by hollywood. Whilst the English were equally guilty William Wallace was busy hanging children from castle ramparts, and slaughtering innocent villagers by way of retaliation.

Best to learn the subject matter before dishing out advice

[t.s]

OP sounds like a right idiot. Anyway, I hope you get the movie and your wife understands the mixed signals that you're sending her as obviously Schindler is a good guy AND a German.

Grow up son.

well said Mick, wafp the op is!

And to the OP, you are missing out on some good food and beer!

not to mention that little outdoor restauraunt on soi 7. lovely strudel indeed.

I would like to point out i have eschewed both Catholicism and Tapas since the Inquisition.

[t.s]

Whilst you are at it OP, why don't you show your GF the "braveheart" movie. Easy to follow and entertaining the movie clearly demonstrates just a fraction of the atrocities committed by the English.

Of course, I'm sure you'll understand if she decides to boycott English sausage.

Moonrakers,whilst i agree with your sentiments, it would not be a good idea to watch Braveheart, because anyone who knows their history would know that the film is absurdly factually incorrect, a fiction conjured up by hollywood. Whilst the English were equally guilty William Wallace was busy hanging children from castle ramparts, and slaughtering innocent villagers by way of retaliation.

Best to learn the subject matter before dishing out advice

best learn to understand satire and sarcasm before sounding sanctimonious.

[carmine]

Whilst you are at it OP, why don't you show your GF the "braveheart" movie. Easy to follow and entertaining the movie clearly demonstrates just a fraction of the atrocities committed by the English.

Of course, I'm sure you'll understand if she decides to boycott English sausage.

Moonrakers,whilst i agree with your sentiments, it would not be a good idea to watch Braveheart, because anyone who knows their history would know that the film is absurdly factually incorrect, a fiction conjured up by hollywood. Whilst the English were equally guilty William Wallace was busy hanging children from castle ramparts, and slaughtering innocent villagers by way of retaliation.

Best to learn the subject matter before dishing out advice

best learn to understand satire and sarcasm before sounding sanctimonious.

You clearly don't

[Bagwan]

May I respectfully suggest that it would be more relevant to the OP's wife if he presented the evidence of the Japanese occupation of Thailand, of the Death Railway, The Bataan Death March and the rape of Nanking? Would it not better to explain the recent history of the immediate world around her rather than what happened to farangs thousands of miles away? My Thai family are not sure whether to believe me or not when I tell them of such things as happened in Asia. How many farangs, never mind the uneducated masses of Thais, know that about 30,000 farangs died building a railway that never served it's purpose. More to the point for a Thai, an estimated 300,000 Asians died on the same project? The irony of all that is that Japan, since those sad times, has achieved many of its aims by peaceful means.

In conversations with a step brother who participated in the bombing of Dresden (and the Hamburg firestorm), he said that he was ashamed of what he helped to bring about. I countered that this would not be a popular view in the East End of London, Coventry or many other of Britain's cities and pointed out that I was taught German at school, by choice, and thankfully not compulsion. Those contributors to this thread who have expressed a mai pen rai attitude have obviously never experienced the horrors of war. The memory of being the target of bombs for 89 successive nights during the London Blitz and the terror of my mother will never be forgotten by me, nor will the screams of Chinese soldiers as we closed inshore and left a pile of rubble of what was once a supply train traversing a railway running along the Korean east coast.

My German master who served as a proud Welsh Guardsman during WW1 told we pupils that the Germans were not bad people, just easily led and this stricture has helped me to forgive, but I do not forget. I can easily understand the exhilaration of brainwashed, unthinking Germans enjoying easy victories in the early war years but I would propose that the vast majority would, as would Allied servicemen and women, rather be sitting by their fireside in the bosom of their families.

[dttk0009]

It's hilarious to think that people I have never even met feel uncomfortable with my existence and see me as a bad and lesser person based on my nationality and/or race. Not that it's surprising. This planet is filled with racists. To try and justify it somehow is hilarious. You can never justify racism. Ever. Think back to what happened in the US with the African Americans for hundreds of years or even to Nazi Germany. This kind of hate thought does nothing but fuel more hate and it doesn't end anywhere good. Germany now is a beacon in human rights, both in speech and in action. OP is a closet racist who needs to have some sense slapped into him. That's all there is to it.