Time To Organzie A Boycott?

[ferd54]

You obviously had some bad karma here and are better out of here.

Stating crimes that have happened and you have had no direct involvement doesn't add any credibility to your argement..

Typical nonsense -- that my karma excuses whatever others do.

And in terms of the Kirsty Jones murder: Back then most farang in Chiang Mai knew each other. The owner of the Aree Guesthouse, Andy Gill, and I had hung out a bit. His only crime was to own the guesthouse where Kirsty was killed, but he was arrested and charged with murder, even after the forensics people at Suan Dok Hospital found that the semen came from an Asian. His father, an architect in Britain, paid a 1 million baht bribe to get him out. Andy then sold his story to the tabloids upon his return to Britain.

That left his girlfriend holding the bag, so she raced around Chiang Mai borrowing money to make 1 million in cash. Newspapers took a picture of her with it and quoted her saying it was never paid to the judge -- that she had kept it. Afterwards, she gave the money back to friends and family. People stayed on this case long after the police swept it under the rug -- we found the whole sordid story just so appalling.

I left one particularly outrageous item off my list:

That police/immigration people hassled/shook down volunteers who came to help after the tsunami. Also 1 million baht in charitable donations that was stolen from a safe at Phuket city hall. Does anyone know -- was that money ever tracked down and anyone held responsible?

[Nio]

Boycott is the wrong action for this situation and will achieve nothing.

I firmly believe the statistics prove that foreigners living in Thailand are a vital part of the economy and without their economic contributions each year Thailand would be in bad shape.

That being said, many people come to Thailand to get away from beaurocracy for a simpler life.

The solution is the same as the US.

Formation of a lobby group, one group that was backed by all the expats living and working in Thailand would have some punch the same way lobbiest have in the USA

However, to organize a lobby group of all the expats in Thailand would be almost impossible.

People here are not interested in anything more than their daily routines.

It would take some drastic negative actions by the govt against expats in general to draw people together to act

And so the cat continues to chase it's tail and never catches it

We all know the story

[IanForbes]

I was down right disappointed tonight. I walked the two kilometers home at almost 2AM through what is supposed to be the most dangerous area of Chiang Mai and I wasn't accosted once. A few Katois asked me if I needed a partner but that was it. Nobody came at me with a knife or gun, only the occasional soi dog barked at me and twenty minutes after I left the bars I was back in my apartment. I guess I'll have to do it all over again tomorrow night to get my thrill out of some bad guy trying to do his dirty deed. I mean gee whiz, what's this modern world coming to when you can't even get rolled by a drunk.

I think you meant: Gee whiz, what's this modern world coming to when you're a drunk who can't even get rolled.

Normally you would be correct, but I don't get drunk. It ruins the performance.

[ferd54]

Boycott is the wrong action for this situation and will achieve nothing.

And so the cat continues to chase it's tail and never catches it

We all know the story

Boycotts are what the disenfranchised turn to when there is no redress with the govt. Farangs have no rights, and the Thais certainly aim to keep it that way. The retort is usually -- if you don't like it leave. I think a month without farang money might actually remind them that the foreigners make quite a contribution to Thailand and should be treated with commensurate respect.

Money is the only thing most of them understand.

Edited December 7, 2009 by ferd54

[sirineou]

12 pm on Dec 17th okay with every one?

12 pm not good for me , I am having my Thai massage at 12:45, how about 3:00, I think I will be free for a good boycott then.

[wintermute]

He put his money in, then it was the turn of his "good friend," a Sino-Thai bigshot at Chiang Mai University. The guy never came through, so Paul was severely short of cash. At the same time he found out that his wife was having an ongoing affair with her childhood Thai sweetheart. To make a long story short, with his health problems, cash crisis and wife's betrayal, he went back to his home state for a "visit" – and shot himself with a pistol.

Sad story, but this could have happened the same with an American woman. In fact in the U.S. she could have taken him for half his net worth, his children, and then his livelihood right after cheating on him.

We needed an angel investor – and one seemed to arrive in the person of "Doctor" Orawan. She claimed to be a medical doctor from Bangkok whose older brother was very wealthy.

So you trusted some random slapper who is a part time farang groupie who calls herself a doctor without doing your own due diligence before starting a business. Who is to blame here? How dark was her skin and did she wear a thong too?

My experiences began as a relatively young man in Thailand who expected people to honor their commitments. I had no idea the ride I would be in for and the completely tawdry things I would see.

Thailand is fine if you have a shred of common sense.

[ferd54]

i can't wait to hear more.

Here's another:

Father Harry Thiel was already quite old when I met him in Chiang Mai. A pastor in the Redemptorist sect of the Catholic church, his mission since the late 1950s had been the H’mong of Thailand and Laos. During the secret war in Laos he sometimes rode with Air America to reach them. I found a picture of him from that time. He was a big, strapping guy.

He was also quite high up in the Church in Bangkok at one time, and had private consultations with the very pinnacle of Thai society. He spoke fluent Thai, Northern Thai and helped translate the Bible into H’mong.

Whatever your views on religion or missionaries, this was a man who quietly went about his work without preaching.

After receiving significant donations from Holland, he built a school and church on the southeast corner of Chang Klan Road across from the Empress Hotel. I went to the opening.

Soon, however the Bishop (Thai) of the church decided he wanted the nice, beautiful complex that was just completed to use as his personal residence (which it remains today). He forced Father Harry to swap it for some vacant land on Mae Rim Road. I visited him out there, too, where he was resigned to starting again.

I lost contact with him, but later learned he had fallen ill and returned to Seattle, where he was beloved by the H’mong who helped care for him. He passed away a few years back. Do a google search on him. He was rather famous in those circles.

(Before the reactionaries slam down their Chang beer and accuse me of being a religious nut, I haven’t been inside a church for years. I heard about him and wanted to talk to him about the secret war, which interested me greatly at the time. He wouldn’t say much about it, instead turning the talk to happier subjects. I really enjoyed spending time with him.

That’s part of what kept me in Chiang Mai at that time – there were so many interesting people who had been there for decades, or their families for generations, by the time I arrived.

The city is now just a mini-Bangkok. It was also severely damaged by Thaksin’s brainstorms such as the Night Safari. A side benefit of his overthrow was stopping his schemes to “help” his hometown. Much of the damage is already done, however).

[sanook2me]

Boycott is the wrong action for this situation and will achieve nothing.

And so the cat continues to chase it's tail and never catches it

We all know the story

Boycotts are what the disenfranchised turn to when there is no redress with the govt. Farangs have no rights, and the Thais certainly aim to keep it that way. The retort is usually -- if you don't like it leave. I think a month without farang money might actually remind them that the foreigners make quite a contribution to Thailand and should be treated with commensurate respect.

Money is the only thing most of them understand.

where have you been hiding since 2004 with only 100 odd posts...???

Please more stories..you have so many... best post for along time on here....

You haven't mentioned the colour of t shirts we need to wear for the boycott.... ? I have a nice grey beer chang vest...

[ferd54]

So you trusted some random slapper who is a part time farang groupie who calls herself a doctor without doing your own due diligence before starting a business. Who is to blame here? How dark was her skin and did she wear a thong too?

Gimme a break. Due diligence in Thailand? Using what -- their vast, accurate database on credit ratings, especially at that time? During the 1997 financial crisis, even the big Thai banks played holy h*ll trying to track down who was who. Folks shed personal and business names like snakes do their skin.

One example of due diligence was the Australian auditor trying to find out what happened to investor money in a sugar mill -- and was murdered. Another was the auditor in the TPI bankruptcy, who was asked in by the company's shareholders -- only to be thrown in jail for lack of a work permit.

As for the infamous doctor, she was so butt-ugly I never understood why anyone had her as a mia noi. Even given your post, I wouldn't wish her on you.

Thailand is fine if you have a shred of common sense.

No, Thailand is fine as long as you keep paying. If the equation moves much off at least 90 percent on your part, things go squirly very quickly.

[wintermute]

Gimme a break. Due diligence in Thailand? Using what -- their vast, accurate database on credit ratings, especially at that time? During the 1997 financial crisis, even the big Thai banks played holy h*ll trying to track down who was who. Folks shed personal and business names like snakes do their skin.

To start with you could have done a check up on her personal references and character through Thai people who knew what the score is. If no information was available you could have just quietly denied her participation in your investment scheme. If you have no Thai friends then I could see where you had loads of problems doing business transactions. Remember I said "common sense" matters here. Also, this has nothing to do with the '97 financial crisis which was an entirely different animal altogether. In your situation you got duped by some two bit whore who took you and your associates for all you were worth because you're a poor judge of character and probably look like a willing gullible mark for a con artist.

One example of due diligence was the Australian auditor trying to find out what happened to investor money in a sugar mill -- and was murdered. Another was the auditor in the TPI bankruptcy, who was asked in by the company's shareholders -- only to be thrown in jail for lack of a work permit.

For every highly publicized terrible incident in Thailand I could offer two as a counterpoint that happened in the U.S. Bad sh*t happens everywhere it just so happens that in Thailand it happens a lot less than the states.

No, Thailand is fine as long as you keep paying. If the equation moves much off at least 90 percent on your part, things go squirly very quickly.

This is exactly what a gullible mark would say. It's too bad you got taken by every Thai person you came across but perhaps you should stop and think about who you socialize with. So many farang end up hanging out with the dregs of Thai society and can't figure out why they keep getting screwed over as a result.

Edited December 7, 2009 by wintermute

[wintermute]

Here's another:

Father Harry Thiel was already quite old when I met him in Chiang Mai. A pastor in the Redemptorist sect of the Catholic church, his mission since the late 1950s had been the H'mong of Thailand and Laos.During the secret war in Laos he sometimes rode with Air America to reach them. I found a picture of him from that time. He was a big, strapping guy.

Right..so he was just an innocent pastor who just happened to be riding with the CIA's own SE asian airline service daily. He was a part time spook not just a pastor. He should be thanking his lucky stars everyday that he only got a compound swindled out of him and he didn't end up dead from participating in one of the most disgusting conflicts in the last 50 years.

[ferd54]

So many farang end up hanging out with the dregs of Thai society and can't figure out why they keep getting screwed over as a result.

Wow, you really assume a lot. I didn't hang out with the dregs of society, far from it. I didn't lose one penny to the infamous "two-bit whore" doctor. Her husband, incidently, is one of the wealthiest Chinese in Utradidt. She drove a Mercedes and had several homes, including in Bangkok and Chiang Mai. She may have been many things (or not been many things), but she definitely had the hi-so act down. Sorry, but your convenient stereotypes are simply untrue.

Did you make your money in Thailand or bring it with you to play the big shot?

[wintermute]

She drove a Mercedes and had several homes, including in Bangkok and Chiang Mai. She may have been many things (or not been many things), but she definitely had the hi-so act down. Sorry, but your convenient stereotypes are simply untrue.

Mistake #1 assuming she was hi-so from her car (loaned or his) and her husband who she had a relationship of "convenience" with.

Mistake #2 Not understanding Thai society enough to figure out what the relationship and money came from.

[endure]

So we moved to a nice walled compound, but I had to drive an hour to work every day. A neighbor had three yapping dogs, so I tried to talk to him about it. His response was (in English, no less): “<deleted> you. This is not your country. You can say nothing.” We also soon realized that my wife, myself and our dog developed vey serious skin rashes. We also noticed a white film on the cars after washing and the fact the grass simply wouldn’t grow no matter how much fertilizer or water. Realized something bad in the water supply, but all and sundry assured us that was not true. Dog died. Left Thailand. Rash cleared.

I'm not quite sure I understand this. There was 'something bad in the water supply' that killed your dog, killed your grass, stained your car and brought you and your wife out in a rash. Did all these calamities happen to the neighbours in your walled compound too? Or were they confined to you, your wife and your dog?

[JFitzgerald]

Vote with your feet, if you are dissatisfied with the countries laws, Leave ,no one is paying to keep anyone here.

Cheers:

I did three years ago and haven't been back.

As nobody has reported missing you - seems your protest has gone unnoticed - but we are now overjoyed that you told us all about it.

[ferd54]

Blah, blah .... Not understanding Thai society enough to figure out what the relationship and money came from.

You don't know what you're talking about. You are actually dead wrong in your assumptions, so I will simply ignore you in the future. So to make it crystal clear how you are dead wrong on three important points, let me spell it out again for you:

* The doctor was a mia noi of a very wealthy Chinese guy. He owns big rock quarries and supplies gravel to government projects as well as marble to the construction industry, etc. I have been to his residential compound which was about as far from "two-bit" as you can get. The doctor had a house there, one in Bangkok and one in Chiang Mai. She always wore expensive jewerly, had on top-notch clothes and was known for her profligate spending. She most definitely had a long-term relationship with this Chinese guy; whether in Thailand he could still marry three women legally I don't know, but he definitely took care of her very well.

* I didn't lose any money. The big loser was the Chinese guy, who poured many millions in at one time. The business was in her name -- something for the bored wife to do -- so when he pulled out, she had it, but without the backup of sugar daddy. We didn't know this as it happened; suddenly he was gone along with his money. By that time the business was profitable, but because she wanted to continue live the lifestyle to which she was accustomed, she simply began putting the business revenues n her personal bank account. The accountant, to her credit, tried to fight it. Eventually we all got together and confronted the doctor that if she continued and destroyed the business, she would indeed have nothing. Eventually a well-known Sino-Chinese businessman -- actually a buddy of Thaksin -- bought her out, built new facilities and he business is indeed very successful today. I do believe the doctor got involved to begin with because she was bored and sick of being one of several wives -- to strike out with some independence. The problem with that is she seemed to have no common sense about money and ended up going off the deep end.

* Father Harry spent 50 years working with the H'mong. He hitched rides with Air America because they flew to remote regions of Laos. I'm sure he knew a lot, but that was part of the territory. After the war was over, he continued to work with the H'mong for 20 years until he fell ill. This was a man who spent his life assisting a people that few in Thailand want anything to do with. Your characterizations of him are not only completely wrong, but profoundly insulting to the memory of one of the kindest men I've every met. But actually what you say and think is irrelevant. Good bye.

[ferd54]

I'm not quite sure I understand this. There was 'something bad in the water supply' that killed your dog, killed your grass, stained your car and brought you and your wife out in a rash. Did all these calamities happen to the neighbours in your walled compound too? Or were they confined to you, your wife and your dog?

We moved about as far out of town as you can get while still being able to commute to work and shopping, etc. Beautiful development with pine trees everywhere next to the mountains. Everyone there seemed to really keep to themselves -- come home, push the remote to open the automatic gate, and into the carport and home.

I noticed early on that I never saw anyone watering their grass or washing their cars, and Thais are usually fastidious about making sure their cars look nice.

Anyway, after washing our cars, I noticed this white powder that would remain on the surface even though the cars were well-rinsed and even squegeed. To get that off I would then have to rub with a clean towel quite hard to get this powder off.

The grass looked bad when we moved in, so I began to water assiduously and give it fertilizer. It never did do much except look scraggly. Then our pug dog fell very ill with a rash. We kept taking him to the vet, but nothing we did helped. I think he died because he was very small and was drinking the water, while my wife and I drank bottled water of course.

We went to the management and tried to find out if something was in the water, and they repeatedly assured us that it was fine. By this time my wife and I had also developed annoying ski rashes -- the same for both of us.

At that time a couple of Thaksin's brainstorms -- the Night Safari and Floral whatever -- were finished just up the road from us. The land had been developed without consulting with the local farmers and they complained and held protests because their water supply had been severely depleted. I then had a suspicion that perhaps overuse of fertilizers for these developments had tainted the water table, and we we downstream from these monstrosities.

The only thing I could think of then was to maybe go to the university and see if I could get a truthful water analysis. Instead of that, I said "screw this" and left Thailand. I had had well more than enough.

[Credo]

I don't think the Thais care what we do and I think if we cause problems we'll all get to go to immigration every 14 days instead of 90.

[473geo]

Interesting reports....I won't call them stories as that would perhaps suggest imaginative input which I am sure there is none.

I can understand your frustration with Thailand concerning the balance of respect for foreigners.......

The downside to your boycott is that the foreigners living in Thailand must concentrate on the positive not the negatives in Thailand......as you are no longer living in Thailand, you are comfortable with highlighting the negatives, as it currently has no bearing on your daily life.......for their own sanity the expats in Thailand,even if the road is a bit rocky, have little choice but to accept and make the very best of their situations if they wish to remain. To use a well worn expression.... glass half full......and there will be some sucess stories too.

I feel however that your reports will comfort some people who are not finding the road to happiness as they may have expected......that they are not alone.

[ferd54]

The downside to your boycott is that the foreigners living in Thailand must concentrate on the positive.... glass half full......and there will be some sucess stories too.

I feel however that your reports will comfort some people who are not finding the road to happiness as they may have expected......that they are not alone.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I though I would pass along another experience that might say a lot about how Thailand’s changed over the past 15 or so years.

As we worked on the startup, the foreigners were unable to get year visas and work permits (the entire process took about three years), so we did visa runs. There was never any worry about a work permit; in fact it was never considered a factor and it never became one. It was truly mai phen rai.

Eventually, the good doctor said that we didn’t need to worry about visa runs – the maximum fine was 20,000 baht for overstay, so we should all overstay our visas and the business would pay the fine when the year visa paperwork finally went through.

I didn’t like that idea and voiced my concerns, so the doctor paid for me to fly to Bangkok and meet with the very head of immigration for the entire country, who she had “gone to school with.” Indeed I met with him, and he told me he couldn’t do anything formally, but it was OK if I overstayed and I shouldn’t worry. He knew the doctor, he said.

So I overstayed my visa for two full years. When the time came to straighten it all out, our passports were sent off and came back with legitimate immigration stamps as if we had been doing visa runs the whole time.

Back in those days, one had all the chaos, but also had the flexibility. The police never bothered us and people didn’t seem to take everything all that seriously.

Today, after Taksin’s endless hubs and crackdowns, it seems that the government could not care less about foreigners and just keeps making and changing rules so farangs can jump through more and more hoops. Paperwork to cover their own incompetence. At least back in the day it seemed people didn’t bother and pretend to be completely competent.

Mai phen rai is OK as long as it cuts both ways. In many ways it was great fun.

Edited December 8, 2009 by ferd54

[neverdie]

I've spent all day today boycotting Thailand. Will that do?

No endure. I demand you stay away all week.

[Powerband]

Why Boycott?

Vote with your feet, if you are dissatisfied with the countries laws, Leave ,no one is paying to keep anyone here.

I do what Thai law requires of me, As I "never forget that I am but a visitor" to their beautiful country.

If I was not satisfied with Thailand and its people, I would have left a long time ago!

Cheers:

Maybe you just a visitor but most foreigners are bringing with them experience, knowledge and hard cash, so i don't called "that just a visitor"

If you lived here for year and having children growing up here you have commitments and responsibilities in this country, and isn't so easy to just leave.

But also if you go with all regulations paying and giving your part to the Thai society, do we get anything back from the country as a foreigner ????????

no offense, really....but this is part of the problem - Assuming that you are bringing with you 'Knowledge' and Hard Cash'....implies to Thais that you are superior in both mentality and monetarily. Very offensive to some.

What foreigners need to bring with them are compassion and wisdom, wisdom isn't necessarily the same as knowledge.

It's this Western mentality where cash is king, that is giving foreigners here a bad name and what will further corrupt the country's ever dwindling moral value.

[Ulysses G.]

It's this Western mentality where cash is king, that is giving foreigners here a bad name and what will further corrupt the country's ever dwindling moral value.

Cash is king is also Thai mentality.

[kensingto]

Great! Some dumb foreigners are going to change Thailand with no idea about the local culture. Whether you are coming here for girls, cheap living, refuge, or whatever and expect everything has to be in your way, then one day... Oh!!! What the H... !@#$%$%. This is unacceptable! I am going to boycott this sooner or later because they cannot give my satisfaction. This remind me of some alien labor activities. Don't forget you are not belong here, if you don't like it, just leave...(Simple as that! )

Edited December 8, 2009 by kensingto

[duchovny]

I stopped going to Thailand a couple of years ago in favour of Cambodia. Best decision I ever made. Cambodia's a great place, just like Thailand 10 years ago.

I wont even fly through BKK any more, too risky, you don't know when they'll do something really stupid like closing down the airport. They really don't have any respect for tourists in Thailand, neither do they know the importance of them to their faltering economy.

Now I fly to Phnom Penh via Singapore, KL or saigon, just to be on the safe side.

[Petesear]

I think the OP's got a good point.... We should all up and leave and not come back till our demands are met!!

What are our demands?

[Moonrakers]

I think the OP's got a good point.... We should all up and leave and not come back till our demands are met!!

What are our demands?

I protest profusely at having ice put in my beer. 

[sanook2me]

I think the OP's got a good point.... We should all up and leave and not come back till our demands are met!!

What are our demands?

I protest profusely at having ice put in my beer. 

I demand a Poll.... Jingjing where are you in farangs hour of need ???

[samran]

I think the OP's got a good point.... We should all up and leave and not come back till our demands are met!!

What are our demands?

That you have more competent farangs come to Thailand to represent your interests? The current mob need to be voted out...or deported.

[Moonrakers]

I think the OP's got a good point.... We should all up and leave and not come back till our demands are met!!

What are our demands?

The current mob need to be voted out...

Yet another poll then?