Education Is Not Only About Formal Qualifications

[Steve2UK]

EDITORIAL

Education is not only about formal qualifications

By The Nation

Published on December 11, 2009

Society can progress if we listen to the ordinary person; the vast untapped well of real-life knowledge

The unequal relationship between so-called professionals and experts and ordinary folk is nothing new. People depend on lawyers, doctors, journalists and even economists, bureaucrats and political scientists for information and various other practical needs. Such dependence reinforces a top-down hierarchical structure and is not helpful for society in the long term.

While experts and professionals may, and should continue to, excel and learn more about their specialised fields of knowledge and practice, ordinary people are also entitled to, and should learn to become less dependent and less intimidated by professionals.

It is worth noting that in areas such as health, ordinary people have, over the past few decades, gained more knowledge about medical science by themselves without actually specialising in the discipline as a trained professional. People know more about medical conditions - especially if directly affected by illness or disease - and this has led to a less passive relationship with physicians.

This situation has come about through communications technology and wider access to information. It is also illustrated in publications like medical dictionaries for lay people. Anyone with a basic education can look up references and gain greater understanding of, for example, medical conditions like heart disease or diabetes.

As a result of this trend, some patients are no longer content to merely take whatever prescription doctors hand out to them. They are asking more questions of doctors and becoming more active in deciding what might be the best medical treatment or alternatives.

In Thailand, too much blind faith is placed on those with higher educational degrees, be they technocrats, bureaucrats or academics. The mainstream media are over-reliant on seeking views and judgements from so-called experts in academia and beyond. This attitude is far more prevalent here than in Western countries like the US or the UK, and the views of ordinary Thai citizens are thus often neglected.

Our society has remained passive and dependent upon this minority class of experts from the well-educated elite. It is time that we recognised that ordinary citizens do have valuable views to contribute beyond five-second sound bites on television. Only through their participation can society become more self-reliant. Only through their determination to have their views heard can we produce more able and honest leaders to replace the substandard, self-serving crop that we suffer today.

It seems that education only refers to formal education, and that what one learns from work and real-life experience doesn't really count as part of our educational qualification.

The term "highly educated" can be very misleading, and therefore it might be more appropriate to refer to experts and professionals as highly "formally" educated. More recognition of the average person is needed so society can tap into the great wealth of informal experience and knowledge.

We all may not be formally educated to the same level or have graduated from the same prestigious universities, but each and every citizen surely has something to contribute. We should not be cowed into thinking that we must always depend on an expert's advice.

An education system that promotes wide-ranging basic knowledge must be encouraged so that people can know more about more, and not just more about less. Only then can society start to maximise its vast, untapped potential. Only then will more people become confident about themselves and their place and potential in society.

A strong and self-reliant society requires less hierarchy. In any large society, a few highly formally educated people can only push social progress so far. The bulk of the task rests with the rest of us.

-- The Nation December 11, 2009

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http://nationmultimedia.com/2009/12/11/opi...on_30118313.php

[MaxLee]

That's the problem in Asian Society. Whoever past leaders of Asia have created this crap of hierarchical should swell in hel_l...

In the end real life is about practical skills, but many education institutes , especially in Asia really seem to neglect it. Too much is emphasized on what subjects students are FORCED to know, instead of what they really need to learn about real life.

[trogers]

And those holding PhDs and DScs can be frequently embarrassed by grade school kids...

As said, the more you know about something means the less you know about all the other things...

[Stumbo]

When did the Nation get a conscience? The elite they castigate is the very group whose political preference for maintaining the existing status quo they have been shamelessly supporting for years.

[Scott]

Does this mean that kids at school shouldn't take caligraphy every week? Surely that's something practical that will take them a long way in todays job market!

[Xangsamhua]

Formal education doesn't need to be divorced from "work and real-life experience". One can pursue higher education and still be in touch with everyday life. I suppose the writer has in mind those who are highly educated and only mix with people like themselves. Certainly, some academics do live in a rarefied environment.

The writer is right to point out the need for both theory and practice to be taught in the disciplines they apply to. In those disciplines where "practice" doesn't apply in the same sense (e.g. History), students need to be well grounded in method, i.e. knowing how to do research, knowing how to apply a critical approach. At present, an academic can be punished for criticizing the established view.

Doctors, professors and other professionals who take offence when a patient, colleague or student disagrees with them are really doing no one a service, but there are many senior people in Thailand who still regard even a question as a sign of disrespect.

[animatic]

I've known PHD's who could never match their socks, or cook dinner,

and self-taught, practical individuals, who were totally together and well rounded professionals.

The piece of paper is only a guide to their potential knowledge base for employment,

not their actual skills as humans to get the job done.

[BangkokJazz]

I've known PHD's who could never match their socks, or cook dinner,

and self-taught, practical individuals, who were totally together and well rounded professionals.

The piece of paper is only a guide to their potential knowledge base for employment,

not their actual skills as humans to get the job done.

Animatic's point is very well taken. However, lets not discount the fact that Thailand needs quality academics in a variety of fields. Many of them are the people doing good work for the country in science, research, health and medical development, and the social sciences. I won't go so far as to say that all Thailand's academics are at the pininicles of their professions, but many are quality, and their efforts should not be discounted.

[animatic]

I've known PHD's who could never match their socks, or cook dinner,

and self-taught, practical individuals, who were totally together and well rounded professionals.

The piece of paper is only a guide to their potential knowledge base for employment,

not their actual skills as humans to get the job done.

Animatic's point is very well taken. However, lets not discount the fact that Thailand needs quality academics in a variety of fields. Many of them are the people doing good work for the country in science, research, health and medical development, and the social sciences. I won't go so far as to say that all Thailand's academics are at the pininicles of their professions, but many are quality, and their efforts should not be discounted.

We are in agreement on this.

The cream in any academic world rises to the top, based in diligence and intelligence.

Thailand has a decent crop, but Thailand needs as many as it can properly produce at highest levels.

But too often, there is a 'pass and move them out into the world' lack of study/learning ethic,

and hence the rather under-prepared middle and lower tiers with a degree,

and little idea how to be productive. Bulk academic paper and less excellence.

Can't let the families lose face making the kid repeat the course till he KNOWS it...

* I have an acquaintance with a degrees in 17th century french composers, English Romantic literature,

and a Masters in Philosophy... best he can do is sing folk songs in Irish bars.

He can recognized the finale of Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra segueing into Fats Waller/Peewee Russel,

played on an acoustic guitar. A not very employable talent I fear.

Another has a 4 year Berklee Composition degree, plays 17 instruments well,

and works at the post office as a clerk....

Another man I know can't tell a quarter note from a whole note on paper,

but can play anything he can hear.

It's not the degree as sole route, but learned application.

But of course learned application, with a degree, backed by diligence, trumps all.

[BangkokJazz]

On a related note - the new Ministry of Education initiative titled TQF "Thailand Quality Framework" which will effectively overall all College curriculums in the country is a great start. I was talking with a higher ed expert from the UK, and he explained that this new initiative is well constructed and will make significant affects if administered properly (the 64,000 dollar question in Thailand).

[Dakhar]

I've known PHD's who could never match their socks, or cook dinner,

and self-taught, practical individuals, who were totally together and well rounded professionals.

The piece of paper is only a guide to their potential knowledge base for employment,

not their actual skills as humans to get the job done.

As a doctorate degree holder, I must say, I have the maids match my socks and cook my dinner. Could I do the task myself, maybe.... but I'd rather not.

The "piece of paper" (doctorate) is, by law, a "requirement" for employment in my field.

That said, I have met many people that are very gifted and do not have any diplomas.

[animatic]

Of course a doctorate means you should be pushing ahead of where your training stopped,

and set new standards in the field of endeavor. Certainly many fields demand the paper, such as yours,

but I am sure you also know some fellow PHD's just marking time and not moving the field ahead.

There are some academics just addicted to the chase for higher papers,

and not the practical application of the knowledge inherent.

[BangkokJazz]

I always enjoyed the quote from Prince Mahidol, the namesake of Mahidol University, and father of HM. He said - "True success is not in the learning, but in its application to the benefit of mankind."

[geriatrickid]

A lovely patronizing editorial intended to let the have nots, know that they too are important. Puhleeeze.

Some of the statements ignore the reality;

It is worth noting that in areas such as health, ordinary people have, over the past few decades, gained more knowledge about medical science by themselves without actually specialising in the discipline as a trained professional. People know more about medical conditions - especially if directly affected by illness or disease - and this has led to a less passive relationship with physicians.

Uh huh. One merely read the TV forums on the H1N1 to see how in a great many cases, this has fueled the underlying mental illness of some. Delusional paranoia being one. Ok, I can't argue with the intended premise, but anyone familiar with medical studentitis, the condition where 1st and 2nd year medical students are convinced that they have rare or serious illness after taking a course, will understand my observation.

This situation has come about through communications technology and wider access to information. It is also illustrated in publications like medical dictionaries for lay people. Anyone with a basic education can look up references and gain greater understanding of, for example, medical conditions like heart disease or diabetes.

I get the point, and it does work well for some. Unfortunately, the people that would benefit most from reading up on diabetes and blood pressure often do not have access to computers, libraries or even the necessary language skills to comprehend the material. I would have prefered an editorial on the need for technical and scientific literacy. How does access to medical reference texts help someone that still thinks evil spirits may be responsible for an ailment? It's not Thai specific either. One need only look at the TV threads again. Many people reading these available resources do not have the basic knowledge or intelligence to sort through the info, to comprehend or to think things through. That's why we end up with threads in TV dedicated to the "benefits" of colonic irrigation.

Why am I in a tizzy? Because it's positions like this editorial that allowed South Africa to have a health minister that set back the control of HIV by a decade. The former minister espoused a similar philosophy and believed that HIV could be treated with lemon juice, beet root and garlic. No need for a formal education when the people knew what to do. Her approach to child nutrition and TB treatment won't get her a nomination for a Nobel prize either.

What's needed is access to the information, particularly in the rural and poorer areas. What's needed is an educational system that encourages students to go out and find out for themselves and more importantly, someone has to show them how to find the information. It's not all about googling.

Of course a doctorate means you should be pushing ahead of where your training stopped,

and set new standards in the field of endeavor. Certainly many fields demand the paper, such as yours,

but I am sure you also know some fellow PHD's just marking time and not moving the field ahead.

There are some academics just addicted to the chase for higher papers,

and not the practical application of the knowledge inherent.

There is a lot of truth in your statement. Addicted by design. If you don't publish you lose departmental funding and do not qualify for research grants. It leads to some of the most useless studies. At times, quantity not quality is the judging basis. I'd love to go off on a tangent about some of these PhDs (especially in Physics, IT and the poorly named Political "Science" which is not a science), but I'll just leave it with an observation that there are fewer deadbeats in the applied arts and sciences which require getting your hands dirty. Historians and archeologists that dig in the mud or rummmage through hidden libraries, biologists that slog through the jungle and health researchers that play with deadly bugs, all have a strong grip on real life. Sometimes odd, but rarely dull or uninspiring. Amazing what real world work combined with a formal education can achieve.

[Dakhar]

Well said GK

[toybits]

There are many different types of education. Formal education is just one type of education. In our briefing for tourists that go trekking with us in Northern Thailand, we tell them that ...

There are many opportunities for learning when you go trekking with local people in Northern Thailand. Just because we are trekking with villagers many of whom may not have had the opportunity to receive formal education like us city people does not mean that we cannot learn from them.

We never consider villagers as uneducated people. They are merely educated in a different way.

You do not need to spend many years learning to be an accountant if you live in the village. So you might as well throw away your diploma because your education will not be able to help you survive in the jungle.

When we trek with villagers, we are trekking with people that know the area. If we observe carefully, there are many things that we can learn from them.

[BangkokJazz]

There are many different types of education. Formal education is just one type of education. In our briefing for tourists that go trekking with us in Northern Thailand, we tell them that ...

There are many opportunities for learning when you go trekking with local people in Northern Thailand. Just because we are trekking with villagers many of whom may not have had the opportunity to receive formal education like us city people does not mean that we cannot learn from them.

We never consider villagers as uneducated people. They are merely educated in a different way.

You do not need to spend many years learning to be an accountant if you live in the village. So you might as well throw away your diploma because your education will not be able to help you survive in the jungle.

When we trek with villagers, we are trekking with people that know the area. If we observe carefully, there are many things that we can learn from them.

That is a wonderful comment and a great view on people.

[alant]

I've known PHD's who could never match their socks, or cook dinner,

and self-taught, practical individuals, who were totally together and well rounded professionals.

The piece of paper is only a guide to their potential knowledge base for employment,

not their actual skills as humans to get the job done.

As a doctorate degree holder, I must say, I have the maids match my socks and cook my dinner. Could I do the task myself, maybe.... but I'd rather not.

The "piece of paper" (doctorate) is, by law, a "requirement" for employment in my field.

That said, I have met many people that are very gifted and do not have any diplomas.

just interested, what field requires a doctorate?

[MaxLee]

Well the thing with education failure in this country and in Asia in general is...

These kids are no strangers to their own negative issues of saving face and avoiding questions and criticisms. It has been a part of their lives ever since the day they were born. They are manipulated in an insolent way that makes them to timid little cowards that only want to avoid problems instead of facing them and do their best to solve them.

Ever since their birth they are taught that making certain types of mistakes is "a bad thing", and when they grow up with it it follows them all their life. They must be taught that making mistakes is nothing bad, but a positive issue that will help them develop into diligent human beings with confidence.

[wintermute]

There are many different types of education. Formal education is just one type of education. In our briefing for tourists that go trekking with us in Northern Thailand, we tell them that ...

There are many opportunities for learning when you go trekking with local people in Northern Thailand. Just because we are trekking with villagers many of whom may not have had the opportunity to receive formal education like us city people does not mean that we cannot learn from them.

We never consider villagers as uneducated people. They are merely educated in a different way.

You do not need to spend many years learning to be an accountant if you live in the village. So you might as well throw away your diploma because your education will not be able to help you survive in the jungle.

When we trek with villagers, we are trekking with people that know the area. If we observe carefully, there are many things that we can learn from them.

While that may be true we are dealing with different environments here. Learning in the jungle lowers typical western academic priorities and requires different skillsets. A villager wouldn't be able to learn how to fly a space shuttle or walk on the moon either. Also, you might want to tone down the "noble savage" views a little bit there they are a bit patronizing of the villagers if you think about it and you sound a lot like one of those starry eyed backpacker types.

[toybits]

So for you there is only one standard for education? Do you not risk sounding rather arrogant for have this stance? There was no intention of putting villager's knowledge or as you say - skillset on a pedestal. The point was made only to make the point that there are many different types of education.

Take two persons - a villager and a city person. Swap them around and both of them will not be able to survive in their new and unfamiliar environment. So the villager won't be able to fly a space shuttle or walk on the moon. But let me ask you this? Will your space cowboys or your highly educated city slickers (with PhDs no less) be able to survive in the jungle?

While that may be true we are dealing with different environments here. Learning in the jungle lowers typical western academic priorities and requires different skillsets. A villager wouldn't be able to learn how to fly a space shuttle or walk on the moon either. Also, you might want to tone down the "noble savage" views a little bit there they are a bit patronizing of the villagers if you think about it and you sound a lot like one of those starry eyed backpacker types.

[animatic]

I've known PHD's who could never match their socks, or cook dinner,

and self-taught, practical individuals, who were totally together and well rounded professionals.

The piece of paper is only a guide to their potential knowledge base for employment,

not their actual skills as humans to get the job done.

As a doctorate degree holder, I must say, I have the maids match my socks and cook my dinner. Could I do the task myself, maybe.... but I'd rather not.

The "piece of paper" (doctorate) is, by law, a "requirement" for employment in my field.

That said, I have met many people that are very gifted and do not have any diplomas.

just interested, what field requires a doctorate?

A professor overseeing PHD candidates comes easily to mind...

[wintermute]

So for you there is only one standard for education? Do you not risk sounding rather arrogant for have this stance? There was no intention of putting villager's knowledge or as you say - skillset on a pedestal. The point was made only to make the point that there are many different types of education.

Take two persons - a villager and a city person. Swap them around and both of them will not be able to survive in their new and unfamiliar environment. So the villager won't be able to fly a space shuttle or walk on the moon. But let me ask you this? Will your space cowboys or your highly educated city slickers (with PhDs no less) be able to survive in the jungle?

There are other attributes you are not taking into consideration in which a formal education brings. One of which is the ability to retain and interpret knowledge and the other is critical thinking. Your average villager might be good at learned rote behavior or cultural transmission but when it comes to adaptation or retaining new skills they may be rather poor at it because they never learned how to structure thinking or interpret more complex knowledge. I'd bet that you could teach an astronaut how to live in the jungle better than you could teach an (equally intelligent) farmer from a rural village how to fly a shuttle.

It's not arrogance it's just truth.

Edited December 14, 2009 by wintermute

[hammered]

Thailand could do with recognition that a technical education is as worthwhile and useful as a more academic one.

Thailand could also do with opening better education in general to the whole popualtion rather thanb just limiting it to the elite and a few token scholarship poor people.

The current education minister is the only one I can ever think of who actually seemed to take the job seriously in the couple of decades I have been here. A shame he is in a dysfunctional government that wont last long.

I find it hard to believe that anyone still thinks Thai people dont ask questions when there are whole yellow and red movements out there questioning virtually everything and have been doing so for over 4 years in one colours case. The old they dont ask questions adage seems by empiracal evidence to be a tad dead and buried.

[wintermute]

I find it hard to believe that anyone still thinks Thai people dont ask questions when there are whole yellow and red movements out there questioning virtually everything and have been doing so for over 4 years in one colours case. The old they dont ask questions adage seems by empiracal evidence to be a tad dead and buried.

There's plenty of questioning of authority going on and the thai media doesn't report on the more subversive stuff that goes on against the people in charge that we can't mention on heavily censored forums such as thai visa. It's definitely there and if you are close enough with Thai people and understand the language you hear plenty of mumbling about the topics. A lot of it is pretty astounding actually.

The "face" the Thai public keeps on is partly out of pride and nationalist feelings but there are plenty of unhappy undercurrents there. Just look at the fractured south or the feelings of the people in the Northeast. Thailand is a nation of 60 million people. What we hear daily is the propaganda spouted by Bangkok Thais and the middle/upper middle class elites. It does not reflect the reality of your average lower income Thai individual in this nation.

[animatic]

Middle classes by definition can NOT be elites.

[wintermute]

Middle classes by definition can NOT be elites.

I meant upper class elites and not to mix the two together. The middle class just sort of goes along with whatever the hi-so status quo says.

Edited December 14, 2009 by wintermute

[BangkokJazz]

Hammered refers to the current government as disfunctional, and this is not the thread to disagree with him, but I have been impressed at how much governance and policy change the Demcrats have tried to do, with a less than helpful opposition to deal with. I am extremely impressed by the work so far of the Education minister. I hope he'll be in the position as long as possible.