Should Thailand Have A Casino?

[penzman]

I've seen gamblers spend their last dollar, just as addicted as some junkie sucking on a dirty crack pipe. They always tell you about how much they won, when they do, but never tell you how much they lost.

Guys going to the store to get diapers and coming back home without them and an empty wallet. Pension funds, life savings disappearing in no time. Illegal money lending, broken legs, the mafia buzzing around.

A government doing war on drugs, campaigning against tobacco and alcohol is only kidding itself when it resorts to gambling to top up it's yearly budget. Sure a casino makes some people happy but for too many more it's just a nightmare.

[Patex]

They need casinos more then new Wat's,

Let's give'm churches for the new religion!

Patex

[chuchok]

Like it or not, .....

Casinos are coming. Its 'when' not 'if'.

Its too lucrative a business to cede to the Singaporeans.

.....And the moaning Monks will be told to shut up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd give odds 10/1 that you are correct.

[sriracha john]

Surly it is tantamount to irresponsible government not to share in these revenues, at what can only be, very little cost?

If it was all open and honest and above board, it would.  BUT, under Mr. T, there will be no sharing... no trickle down economic benefit...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Spot on. Well, if the only employees of these casinos would be the 200-300 members of Thaksin's extended family anyway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

His daughter in a slutty cocktail waitress outfit will be a step up from her McDonald's days....

[Thomas_Merton]

Summarising the arguments against gambling and casinos:

1. (Racist) Thais cannot control themselves.

2. (Libellous) Thaksin is a thief

3. (Moralistic) Gambling is like a drug

It would be interesting to see if we were to substitute alcohol or s*x for gambling and casinos, what sort of arguments we would come up with for prohibition and enforced s*xual morality.

But whatever the arguments against, from a purely free enterprise point of view, with the power and control in the hands of the state, gambling and casinos, taxed as in the UK at 15% of gross profit, must surely be a dead cert way to generate inexpensive money?

Edited April 19, 2005 by Thomas_Merton

[penelope]

I have seen the problems first hand in Auckland,NZ.The biggest proportion of gamblers by population in this casino is Thais.The extortion,problems and loan sharking that developed was unreal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dont know about that stat because you get alot of asians there, however it is the behaviour I have observed when "covertly" watching and listening to thais/issanians in the casino that is alarming.It is not "ok lets play with 20 bucks, have some fun and leave"..it is "this is my new job/income source, I WILL make money from this no matter what, just as long as I'm wearing my amulet, I'll get the jackpot". And it is not just the lo-so ,overstayer, dodgy types...I have seen this with hi-so,well educated richer thais in AKL too !!!

[bmanly]

I my opinion Thailand should have casinos. The true facts are that Thais gamble anyway. Locally they gamble on card games, football, lotteries (legal and illegal) pools comps whatever. So we have established they will do it anyway.

So why not open a Legal, Government controlled with checks and balances Casino? Then Government can then reap the taxes on the income from such venues. Casinos reap large taxes for Governments in the west. You can build new schools, hospitals etc with those taxes. Why keep it under ground and miss out on that? We all know gambling goes on regardless.

At the end of the day it up to the individual as to how they blow their money but always remember to ask this question, now the Government gets nothing from uncontrolled illegal gambling why not have controlled gambling and reap the taxes in the mean time?

I own shares in a major Casino/gambling institution in Australia and I frequent these places often myself, I have a punt, have a nice meal and go home. I could of course blow my life savings on it but I am not an idiot. I do not in any way feel guilty or imoral in getting dividends from the shares I own in that company. It is the individuals choice just like drinking, sky diving or riding a harley around Pattaya, whatever. Besides the locals here have been talking about Koh Larn being a good spot for a Casino for ages, I wonder if that will ever happen?

[penelope]

I my opinion Thailand should have casinos. The true facts are that Thais gamble anyway. Locally they gamble on card games, football, lotteries (legal and illegal) pools comps whatever. So we have established they will do it anyway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So build a casino so they can gamble EVEN MORE right ?

[sriracha john]

Please excuse me for taking the liberty to modify your post:

So why not open a Legal, Thakisin-controlled with checks and balances Casino? Then, Thaksin can reap the profits on the income from such venues. Casinos reap large taxes for Governments in the West and large profits for Thaksin in the East. You can build newer, bigger businesses, stash more money away off-shore, and endow Thaksin Progeny indefinitely with those profits. Why keep it under ground and miss out on that?

[bmanly]

I my opinion Thailand should have casinos. The true facts are that Thais gamble anyway. Locally they gamble on card games, football, lotteries (legal and illegal) pools comps whatever. So we have established they will do it anyway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So build a casino so they can gamble EVEN MORE right ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You build a Casino so they can do it legally and the Government can collect taxes from the venue and pump it back into schools, aids centres, hospitals. This does not happen at present. If they gamble more then it is up to the individual right?

[HarryHacker]

I do think these schoolboy attacks on Mr T are getting out of order.

[bmanly]

Please excuse me for taking the liberty to modify your post:

So why not open a Legal, Thakisin-controlled with checks and balances Casino? Then, Thaksin can reap the profits on the income from such venues. Casinos reap large taxes for Governments in the West and large profits for Thaksin in the East. You can build newer, bigger businesses, stash more money away off-shore, and endow Thaksin Progeny indefinitely with those profits. Why keep it under ground and miss out on that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your statement is Political and I do not want to get into Politics. I do not like nor trust Thaksin anymore than what you may do but that is not the point. The point is that if it was run like they are run in western countries such as Australia then you wouldn't get the problems you have duely noted.

[maerim]

There are some 123 licensed Casinos in the UK.

In my opinion 123 too many.

Mostly frequented by my ex Thai wife and her friends at least she is losing someone elses money now and not mine the only time this woman would stop gambling was when she ran out off money hers and the money she borrowed to keep gambling.

I am not sure who or where these self moderating Thai's who only have a "flutter" keep themselves but I have not had the pleasure of meeting them.

I know Thai's in the UK who have had to remortgage their houses to pay off gambling debts, I know of one family who are being evicted soon because of gambling, finish work in the restaurant, down to the casino, no clocks or windows in any of them lose their wages and bugger the mortgage.

As for gambling only being a bit of fun, it may well be if you are a casino owner or share holder but I fail to see the funny side of gamblers ( my brother in the UK) included who lose everything on the turn of a card.

Fine and dandy if you are single and can afford it but most are not and as for breaking even as most gamblers tell you thats what they do, yeah thats why all the bookies in Manchester live in Prestbury in Cheshire more millionaires per acre than anywhere in the UK paid for by these mugs "breaking even".

[sriracha john]

Please excuse me for taking the liberty to modify your post:

So why not open a Legal, Thakisin-controlled with checks and balances Casino? Then, Thaksin can reap the profits on the income from such venues. Casinos reap large taxes for Governments in the West and large profits for Thaksin in the East. You can build newer, bigger businesses, stash more money away off-shore, and endow Thaksin Progeny indefinitely with those profits. Why keep it under ground and miss out on that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your statement is Political and I do not want to get into Politics. I do not like nor trust Thaksin anymore than what you may do but that is not the point. The point is that if it was run like they are run in western countries such as Australia then you wouldn't get the problems you have duely noted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess I just don't have any confidence that the casinos would be run anything like they are in the West. If they were, I would have no objections to the country benefitting from their revenues.

Not wishing to make the issue a political one, but it can't be helped. Thaksin's past business record and Thailand's current situation with one party are a recipe for disaster when the casinos open. His purchase of the Royal Cliff attest to that. It will be all the bad aspects of casino operations without any of the good ones.

If you have faith in Thaksin's honesty and goodwill, then I wish you all the best.

I don't share that same belief.

[haha]

I don't really gamble, so, I don't know.

some observations....

in the states, in all my years, I've only seen 1 addicted gambler, and he was one of my cousins from china.

addicted gamblers are scary people. I believe they will kill you to get money for their gambling habits.

in the beginning, my cousin worked in my family business. in the beginning, he would get his monthly paycheck every month like everybody else. then, when he became addicted to gambling, he would force us to pay him in advance. it got to the point where he wanted his paycheck 4 months in advance. we realized that he was sick. but didn't know what to do. he threaten my family with physical harm because of his addiction. we had to finally let him go because of his violent behavior due to his gambling addiction.

during my stay here in thailand, I have seen several addicted gamblers. here and there, I hear of someone losing from 10k to 20k baht during a single gambling binge. when I ask them what the attraction was, they reply quote, they don't know. from what I know, except for the lottery, gambling is illegal here in thailand. so, that makes me wonder about their mindset even more.

before thailand seriously thinks of getting into gambling, I think they should ask themselves, "are we ready to deal with the addicted gamblers that will emerge from this industry?" do they have the medical faciities to accommodate the sick ones?

if they can answer yes, then go for it. even though I'm not a gambler, I enjoy the atmosphere now and then.

[chuchok]

I have seen the problems first hand in Auckland,NZ.The biggest proportion of gamblers by population in this casino is Thais.The extortion,problems and loan sharking that developed was unreal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dont know about that stat because you get alot of asians there, however it is the behaviour I have observed when "covertly" watching and listening to thais/issanians in the casino that is alarming.It is not "ok lets play with 20 bucks, have some fun and leave"..it is "this is my new job/income source, I WILL make money from this no matter what, just as long as I'm wearing my amulet, I'll get the jackpot". And it is not just the lo-so ,overstayer, dodgy types...I have seen this with hi-so,well educated richer thais in AKL too !!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My observations came from myself being there, knowing an ex customs officer that used to work there and knowing a hi-so type who extorted and gambled and basicly ripped off everybody she new.

I used to wonder around the tables and even though Asians out number everybody 5-1, there used to be so many Thais there it was hard to believe

thais have a very small "legal' population in Auckland compared to chinese etc. I also met a Thai that set up a Thai night club within spitting distance of the Casino...business was very good,as you could imagine.

[Thomas_Merton]

There are some 123 licensed Casinos in the UK.

...I know Thai's in the UK who have had to remortgage their houses to pay off gambling debts, I know of one family who are being evicted soon because of gambling, finish work in the restaurant, down to the casino, no clocks or windows in any of them lose their wages and bugger the mortgage...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is not this argument similar to the one often suggested when talking about Swedes and alcohol?

Sweden has severe alcohol restrictions - perhaps the most severe in Europe. Whenever a Swede travels to Denmark, Thailand or any other country with a more relaxed approach, they get absolutely paralytic.

There is a "chicken/egg" argument about this phenomenon. Are Sweden's restrictions necessary because Swedes have an uncontrollable urge to over consume alcohol? Or is it as a result of these severe restrictions that Swedes are never able to develop the natural controls present in most who grow up in countries with a more liberal approach to alcohol consumption?

Doesn’t this type of argument apply to Thais, Thailand and gambling?

[penelope]

I have seen the problems first hand in Auckland,NZ.The biggest proportion of gamblers by population in this casino is Thais.The extortion,problems and loan sharking that developed was unreal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dont know about that stat because you get alot of asians there, however it is the behaviour I have observed when "covertly" watching and listening to thais/issanians in the casino that is alarming.It is not "ok lets play with 20 bucks, have some fun and leave"..it is "this is my new job/income source, I WILL make money from this no matter what, just as long as I'm wearing my amulet, I'll get the jackpot". And it is not just the lo-so ,overstayer, dodgy types...I have seen this with hi-so,well educated richer thais in AKL too !!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My observations came from myself being there, knowing an ex customs officer that used to work there and knowing a hi-so type who extorted and gambled and basicly ripped off everybody she new.

I used to wonder around the tables and even though Asians out number everybody 5-1, there used to be so many Thais there it was hard to believe

thais have a very small "legal' population in Auckland compared to chinese etc. I also met a Thai that set up a Thai night club within spitting distance of the Casino...business was very good,as you could imagine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

barsia 342..hahaha....yehh...they get a few thais/issanians through on the weekend...but none of them have much disposable income..business there isn't that great(lucky they have a rent holiday)..and the patrons there are the lo-lo so of thais/issanians/burmese in auckland(plus the obligatory "thao hua ngoo"..haha). Have you seen the "thainz news"..if you can read thai you'll find it quite amusing, there are 2 thai bars in Auckland and they have been having this "kindergarden level of maturity" spat going on for a while and they always have opposing adds on the front page of this news publication...i pick up a copy whenever i fly though town.hilarious.

[chuchok]

I have seen the problems first hand in Auckland,NZ.The biggest proportion of gamblers by population in this casino is Thais.The extortion,problems and loan sharking that developed was unreal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dont know about that stat because you get alot of asians there, however it is the behaviour I have observed when "covertly" watching and listening to thais/issanians in the casino that is alarming.It is not "ok lets play with 20 bucks, have some fun and leave"..it is "this is my new job/income source, I WILL make money from this no matter what, just as long as I'm wearing my amulet, I'll get the jackpot". And it is not just the lo-so ,overstayer, dodgy types...I have seen this with hi-so,well educated richer thais in AKL too !!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My observations came from myself being there, knowing an ex customs officer that used to work there and knowing a hi-so type who extorted and gambled and basicly ripped off everybody she new.

I used to wonder around the tables and even though Asians out number everybody 5-1, there used to be so many Thais there it was hard to believe

thais have a very small "legal' population in Auckland compared to chinese etc. I also met a Thai that set up a Thai night club within spitting distance of the Casino...business was very good,as you could imagine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

barsia 342..hahaha....yehh...they get a few thais/issanians through on the weekend...but none of them have much disposable income..business there isn't that great(lucky they have a rent holiday)..and the patrons there are the lo-lo so of thais/issanians/burmese in auckland(plus the obligatory "thao hua ngoo"..haha). Have you seen the "thainz news"..if you can read thai you'll find it quite amusing, there are 2 thai bars in Auckland and they have been having this "kindergarden level of maturity" spat going on for a while and they always have opposing adds on the front page of this news publication...i pick up a copy whenever i fly though town.hilarious.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have not seen the thanz news, but I will pick one up for a bit of a laugh.

[Joey Boy]

Like it or not, .....

Casinos are coming. Its 'when' not 'if'.

Its too lucrative a business to cede to the Singaporeans.

.....And the moaning Monks will be told to shut up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd give odds 10/1 that you are correct.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

dont open a bookies

[samran]

Pattaya.  Give me a break.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought it was impossible that Pattaya could descend further into the sewer than it already has, now I know that it has potential to go even further.

well if you look at macau, you can see why they're all getting grazy here

macau has the fastest growing economy in the world at 30% per year and will outgrow las vegas strip income in the next year or so, all this because of new us style casino's entering its market, ending stanley ho's 40-year monopoly, there are now 18 casino's there and another 15 to follow in the next 10 years or so .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the problem with this next comment is if it were true, then Poipet for instance would be a thriving economic hub of Cambodia with properly paved roads and the Cambodian government would not have to rely on foreign aid as one if its biggest sources for foriegn income. Last time I looked, Poipet was kindlydescribed as the 'armpit' of Cambodia by the Lonely Planet.

The second problem with this statement is that Thailand, unlike Macau and HK, doesn't have a deregulated economy. Dear Leader Thaksin is no fan of competition (withness AIS and number portability) and will make sure that the bidding process, and the eventual winner of the single license to run a casino will go to someone he has links with.

Edited April 20, 2005 by samran

[chuchok]

Like it or not, .....

Casinos are coming. Its 'when' not 'if'.

Its too lucrative a business to cede to the Singaporeans.

.....And the moaning Monks will be told to shut up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd give odds 10/1 that you are correct.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

dont open a bookies

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would you like a time frame.While I am opposed to a Casino here...I would bet that there will be one here within the next 3 years.

[penzman]

Thaksin Rules Out Casinos In Thailand...for now.

[Thomas_Merton]

Thaksin Rules Out Casinos In Thailand...for now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You don't think Mr. T reads TV, do you?

[penzman]

He's too busy counting 1000 baht notes in the shed.

[chuchok]

He's too busy counting 1000 baht notes in the shed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nobody has that much time!

[The Gentleman Scamp]

No - Legalized gambling in this country would be a disaster, the consequences for families would be disasterous and the resulting poverty would have serious repercussions causing a revival of Thailands past and present ghosts, drungs and prostitution to name a few.

The rich would get richer and the middle class and the poor would get poorer.

[bkk_mike]

Personally, I think Thailand should "maybe" set up one or two casinos, but they should be nowhere near big cities. Pattaya's maybe a bit too close to Bangkok for this...

Make people travel to get there, so that it's a trip, not an everyday thing, at least for people that have a regular day job. (Las Vegas may be a city now - it definitely wasn't when the casino's started there. - and Atlantic City is, similarly, a good distance out from New York).

As for the "Thai's who've lost their home, or think they can live by gambling" - that's not an exclusively Thai thing - that's a gambling addict thing. And, obviously, since Thailand has no legal casinos, you'll find Thai gamblers at other casino's around the world.

Finally, It's not like Thai's need visas to go to Singapore or Poipet, so not having gambling in Thailand isn't going to stop Thai gamblers. All it does is mean they subsidise other countries...

Finally - Lonely Planet calling a place an armpit doesn't mean it doesn't generate a lot of money.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

Finally, It's not like Thai's need visas to go to Singapore or Poipet, so not having gambling in Thailand isn't going to stop Thai gamblers. All it does is mean they subsidise other countries...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Those who can afford to go to Singapore can afford to gamble.

The Thai's in general do seem more prone to gambling than, not all, but most other countries... Am I wrong in saying this?

[samran]

Finally - Lonely Planet calling a place an armpit doesn't mean it doesn't generate a lot of money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Never said that it wouldn't generate a lot of money. My point is the gaming taxes from the border casinos (if any) aren't exactly flooding into the Poipet City Council to build better roads, schools and hospitals now are they?

Edited April 20, 2005 by samran