Schools To Teach Science And Maths In English Next Year

[webfact]

Schools to teach science and maths in English next year

By The Nation

Published on December 14, 2009

At least 500 schools to teach science and mathematics in English next year, Education Minister Jurin Laksanawisit said.

"They all are the leading schools under the Basic Education Commission," Jurin said recently.

Other schools could follow if they had the resources to do so, he said.

"Not all science and math classes must be taught in English next year. But at least English should be the language of instruction for some classes," he said.

"The schools must make the decision based on their level of preparedness," he said.

The ministry was not pushing the schools to teach all science and math classes in English because a similar initiative by Malaysia failed to deliver good results, he said.

The policy was a part of the ministry's Bt6.5 billion plan to create "quality" schools at the tambon, district and provincial levels.

At the local level, quality schools would have good facilities, a decent library and at least one personal computer per 10 students.

-- The Nation 2009/12/14

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[Ijustwannateach]

Well, golly-gee-willikers, that's a great idea- but who exactly is it that is going to be competent enough both in science and in English for this? With the science subject, you're eliminating most of the TEFLers, and with the English requirement you're eliminating most non-English-teaching Thai teachers (and many of the English-teaching ones, too)- and how are they going to guarantee the students are competent enough in English to study difficult technical topics using a second language (probably requires extensive English prep all through grade school and high school)?

A good ANNUAL budget estimate for this, assuming relatively well-qualified foreigners were available, would be along the lines of 100 million baht PER SCHOOL PER YEAR in labour costs alone if you include the necessity for extensive elementary school preparation in English plus the high school science, math, and English teachers. That means their current budget is enough for 65 schools for ONE YEAR.

[Briggsy]

Reminds me of the idea to sound the top-performing rural kids to Europe with no preparation whatsoever. That was soon shelved when one young girl killed herself in Germany. I'm not suggesting any one is going to kill themselves here but the idea is almost certainly not thought through.

In fact, this already happens in a few schools. Studies have shown the kids in these schools perform worse in science and maths but better in English than their counterparts who study science in Thai.

[Scott]

Working in a bilingual education program, I can tell you that it's not impossible, but it's not as easy as it sounds. At the lower year levels, the students must learn the concepts in their native language. Early on, science (and to a lesser extent Math), are basically teaching language--terms and how things are said in English.

With a good bilingual education, by about mathyom level, the students are able to learn concepts in English.

Over the years, it has taken a fair amount of work to get everyone to understand that Science & Math are taught in Thai. English classes teach English, using Science and Math as the subject material.

I am sure there are other models that work, but I very much doubt that the gov't has done the research to find out the best method and I very much doubt they will provide the training necessary.

And the textbooks will be written in which language?

My guess is there will just be a confusing mix of Thinglish taught, much to the detriment of the students.

[Credo]

Somebody is going to make a lot of money off this scheme.

I think I'll open a science and math tutorial school, since they will have to learn it somewhere and it doesn't seem like it will be at school.

[slapout]

When you consider the potential employment for Engineers/Science majors etc by foreign companies, the level of graduates in these fields presently turned out by Thailand, the proposal is probably a good one. It will require additional support in the English language but you have to start somewhere. Having worked with Engineers (Thai educated), as well as Engineers from many other counties, the Thai graduates by and large would not compare to second year real world Engineers. The one thing I did notice is that most of those educated outside Thailand had a good command of English. When questioned, many responded that their native language did not have the term/word usage for recent technology/subject matter. When you listen to the Thai and the English words (corrupted, yes) thrown in, I think English language must be introduced into the science fields in Thailand, if they want math/science background graduates at International level.

[Bottlerocket]

I guarantee you that there isn't a national curriculum or a syllabus created by anyone in the MOE. It's just some whimsical recommendation that they decided to run with to make themselves feel like they know what they're doing. Their biggest obstacle to English is the lack of a coherent plan of action and their refusal to establish a standardized system, even a basic one, that can be refined over the coming years. Everything here is taken as year 0.

[PeaceBlondie]

I hate to sound negative. But this is a PR statement from the central government.

No. Been there, done it, and bought a t-shirt that said mai kojai. The central administration at MOE has the attention span of a 3-year-old. Local schools have too many students per classroom, poorly trained Thai and farang teachers. I taught Maths in Matayom 1. Singapore textbook, no coordination with Thai textbook. ...If Abdullah and Xinxhi pay 3 Singaporean dollars to buy an abacus, will the high tide be at 3 extredasabsclisch?

[Unfaithful]

This is a comedy.Or a tragedy.

[wernerfreitag]

That is not the first priority :.....quality schools would have good facilities, a decent library and at least one personal computer per 10 students...

The schools need teachers , who are able to speak English . Obviously , even the "English Teachers" cannot.

Our foster daughter cannot tell easy words or even sentences( I am... , you are.., week days etc. etc. ). What were they doing in pre-school and 3 years regular school ?

Parents should no pay any extra money for extra teaching ( does not work , just a kind of tea money ). Teachers should be paid for good results , not just for being at school.

[moskito]

Working in a bilingual education program, I can tell you that it's not impossible, but it's not as easy as it sounds. At the lower year levels, the students must learn the concepts in their native language. Early on, science (and to a lesser extent Math), are basically teaching language--terms and how things are said in English.

With a good bilingual education, by about mathyom level, the students are able to learn concepts in English.

Over the years, it has taken a fair amount of work to get everyone to understand that Science & Math are taught in Thai. English classes teach English, using Science and Math as the subject material.

I am sure there are other models that work, but I very much doubt that the gov't has done the research to find out the best method and I very much doubt they will provide the training necessary.

And the textbooks will be written in which language?

My guess is there will just be a confusing mix of Thinglish taught, much to the detriment of the students.

I guess you are right. Science is difficult enough but to teach it in another language sounds impossible to me.

The story sounds like some bigheads set the targets high and the schools and teachers can be blamed after it is not possible to achieve them.

Instead of little steps they try to make one big step like so many times. Why they think it will work in Thailand if it failed in Malaysia? Are

Thai students more clever? sorry but I doubt it, the education system in Malaysia is much better and at least they dont need a calculater

for adding 2+2 but know everything about programming handphones.

Are there even enough teachers to fullfill the goals?

[selftaopath]

Well, golly-gee-willikers, that's a great idea- but who exactly is it that is going to be competent enough both in science and in English for this? With the science subject, you're eliminating most of the TEFLers, and with the English requirement you're eliminating most non-English-teaching Thai teachers (and many of the English-teaching ones, too)- and how are they going to guarantee the students are competent enough in English to study difficult technical topics using a second language (probably requires extensive English prep all through grade school and high school)?

A good ANNUAL budget estimate for this, assuming relatively well-qualified foreigners were available, would be along the lines of 100 million baht PER SCHOOL PER YEAR in labour costs alone if you include the necessity for extensive elementary school preparation in English plus the high school science, math, and English teachers. That means their current budget is enough for 65 schools for ONE YEAR.

But perhaps as so many powerful people believe in magic they might also feel just say it and it will happen e.g. like a "crackdown." LOLOL - funny place but sad for working Thai people

[Xangsamhua]

This seems a very strange decision considering that the trial of the very same thing has been recently abandoned in Malaysia, partly on the ground that it is beyond the present capacities of ethnic Malay students and teachers, but also due to the fact that, generally, students and teachers in non-urban locations didn't have the language ability to carry it out.

The Malaysian model has been under fire for at least two and half years from senior people in UMNO. I came away from a TESOL conference in late 2007, having made a point of attending the papers by Malaysian academics (Malay, Chinese and Indians), with the strong impression that the trial was failing, and failing in spite of considerable in-service, issue of laptops to teachers, provision of materials, buddying with English language teachers and salary incentives. They didn't go into it in a half-baked way.

Even in Penang, a state with a 65% Chinese population and where English is widespread, the principal of a secondary school I visited in 2005 told me that they couldn't implement the English-only model there in Maths and Science because the teachers didn't have the ability.

Anyway, now it's been abandoned in Malaysia, accompanied by comments such as the following:

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2009/07/09/78259.html

'I would not say it was a complete failure, but it did not achieve what it was

supposed to achieve,' Education Minister Muhyiddin Yassin told a news conference on

Wednesday.

"What has not occurred to the authorities is that the education system requires very competent teachers "

Khoo Kay Kim, emeritus professor at the University of Malaya's history department

It is possible, as Scott has said, given sufficient resources and the right conditions, for students to learn content in a second language. This is done very effectively in the CLIL programs in Europe and with demonstrable success (though relative to Thai standards) in bilingual schools here where Maths and Science are taught in both English and Thai (not English only). The abject failure of the MoE project to introduce CLIL successfully into four Thai government schools in 2006-07 is recounted in Alan McKenzie's article here:

http://www.onestopclil.com/section.asp?the...8&docid=927 It's really worth taking a few minutes to read this short report.

I wonder if the Minister has read the McKenzie article, or if he's been informed that Malaysia has dropped the English-only model for Maths and Science. If Malaysia can't do it, there's no way that 500 Thai schools will be able to do it.

[RickBlaine]

After my TEFL course I was offered an interview at an EP school -teaching science and maths in English. When I asked about material and curriculum, I was told to read and follow the text book (thankfully in English), so at least I had a plan. But, I'm not a science major and my maths ended at A level (UK).

This could work, but it needs more than a budget for the schools. It needs a carefully detailed training programme for the teachers, all properly funded, to do anything useful. Maybe they will find the new teachers - wasn't there a story recently about 30,000 new teachers to be funded? I always travel hopefully.

[Credo]

Our school recently went through a major evaluation by the MOE. They were at the school for the better part of a week. They took absolutely no interest in the English component of the program and it appears that they took little interest in the Thai portion. Rumor has it that there criticisms were:

1. The students don't wai well enough.

2. They don't sing the National Anthem up to their specifications.

3. They don't march well enough.

4. Notebooks are not ticked by the teachers neatly enough.

5. Lesson plans were not done using the correct format (Thai Teachers).

6. The bulletin boards in front of the classes were not beautiful enough.

So the next one, they will be looking for Thai Teachers who are speaking jibberish in Science and Math Classes.

[jonclark]

Having worked for many moons in a thai high school I can tell the lads at the MoE this - Most of the Maths and Science teachers don't have the slightest idea about english. So first they need to learn the basic vocbulary and then be taught the correct usage of the vast lexis of science. Most students refer to chemistry as 'Chemmy'.

This will however give the schools more opportunity to hire Indians ( for maths and science) - Cheaper and better educated while at the same time offering little somchais' parents the opportunity for him to study on a special MEP course fo X amount of baht per year - which makes up the massive shortfall most schools now incure as ALL secondary study should be free now. (Pity the budgets haven't increased to compensate this).

My daughter recieved a certificate as she waived her right to a free education. She had no idea and we got a bill for 2500 baht.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

I think that the MOE will need to rely on Filipino teachers to teach math and science in English, because the Thai teachers don't have the English skills, and most western TEFL'ers aren't qualified to teach math or science.

[alfieconn]

Working in a bilingual education program, I can tell you that it's not impossible, but it's not as easy as it sounds. At the lower year levels, the students must learn the concepts in their native language. Early on, science (and to a lesser extent Math), are basically teaching language--terms and how things are said in English.

With a good bilingual education, by about mathyom level, the students are able to learn concepts in English.

Over the years, it has taken a fair amount of work to get everyone to understand that Science & Math are taught in Thai. English classes teach English, using Science and Math as the subject material.

I am sure there are other models that work, but I very much doubt that the gov't has done the research to find out the best method and I very much doubt they will provide the training necessary.

And the textbooks will be written in which language?

My guess is there will just be a confusing mix of Thinglish taught, much to the detriment of the students.

I have recently posted the below on another topic your comments would be greatly appreciated :-

My daughter currently attends the English programme at Varee school but i am seriously thinking about putting her in the normal Thai programme for the following reason.

Thinking about this logicly,trying to learn any subject in your own language can be difficult enough let alone learning a subject in a language that you are not totally au fax with, therefore is the childrens Thai education falling down at the the expense of improving their English.

I did actually ask my daughter the question, "when do you understand Maths more, when it is taught in Thai or when it is taught in English'' and her answer was ''when it is taught in Thai'' which sort of confirms my theory, although this obviously might not be the case for all children.

Anyway if i do put her in the Thai programme she will then have extra English tuition out of school to make up for the shortfall.

[otherstuff1957]

I teach Science and Math at a Bilingual School and it is possible for Thai students to learn these subjects in English. However, how well they learn the subject matter really depends on the student's competence in English. My luek krung students usually do very well, as do the brightest and most hardworking Thai students. The lower than average students probably would learn more in Thai than in English though.

[Scott]

Before anyone jumps on or off a particular bandwagon, you need to decide what it is you want for your child and this has a lot to do with finances. You can study all the 'extra' English you want but it won't help in a classroom setting unless the student is conversant in the language of the topic. There is a whole special 'lingo' that is used in science that you won't learn in conversational English classes. The same with political sciences, social studies etc. As a very rough guide here's somethings to follow:

For International Studies (English) go to an International School.

For International Programs (English) in Thailand go to a bilingual school.

For Thai studies, Thai only, go to a Thai school.

There are a lot of studies done on learning in a different language. Children learning in a bilingual type of environment usually don't suffer any loss in their native language. Students who go to an English speaking school such as an International School will have a great deal of trouble learning in Thai, even if it is their native language.

Learning and language acquisition are a process. They take time, they take planning and they don't happen because of a gov't decree. Money helps, but it's not the key.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

I taught in an EP program at a large government school. In an EP program, students learn Math, Science and Social Studies in English, as well as in Thai. The EP math and science classes lagged behind the Thai math and science classes. In English and social studies, the EP classes excelled far beyond their Thai counterparts. I think the Thai students can learn math and science faster in Thai, but, if they intend to go on to university, would need to learn these subjects in English as well. It's important to remember that the teaching of math, science, PE/health and social studies in English has been an ongoing project in the larger government schools for almost 10 years as a pilot project. The MOE has now decided it is time to expand the project so that more students can get the benefit of learning other subjects in English.

[geriatrickid]

I think the "answer " is highlighted in this statement;

When questioned, many responded that their native language did not have the term/word usage for recent technology/subject matter. When you listen to the Thai and the English words (corrupted, yes) thrown in, I think English language must be introduced into the science fields in Thailand, if they want math/science background graduates at International level.

In my faculty, even the asian students communicated in English on nuts and bolts interspersed with Chinese dialects. The asian languages are notoriously difficult to express complex scientific ideas. You can get away with pure number based stuff, but if you are trying to highlight something complex, symbols or obtuse metaphors don't work. Way back in my Grandfather's day, his field of research had a German dominance, so he had to learn German. It made it easier to read the necessary documents etc. I had to demonstrate a proficiency in a 2nd language before I received one of my diplomas, so the decision here isn't that odd.

I wonder if this also has to do with the number of students going overseas from Thailand. Will English encourage more of them to consider science and not "business"? One last thought; Think of India. It is now one of the largest centers for pharmaceutical research. True, there are many reasons for the concentration, but one of the advantages touted is that the Indians are able to converse in English along with multiple native languages. It takes a while for people to become comfortable in a 2nd language, and the best place to start is in the early years.

I don't know how they intend to carry this through, but it sounds like a positive suggestion to me.

[Hardback]

Great, now they will learn three subjects poorly.

[Scott]

As the saying goes, "The road to hel_l is paved with good intentions." It's not whether it's a good idea or not, it's how will they implement it? When will it start? Who will be doing it? We have both Thai and foreign teachers teaching math and science. The Thai teachers are functionally illiterate in English. The foreign teachers can't read the Thai textbooks.

There's a big divide and I don't see it being filled with good things.

[TAWP]

This is a very bad idea. It has no basis in real world usage nor in how Thailand is looking today. The complete absence of any volume of good teachers at Both English and Science/Math will cement the fact that this will be an utter failure.

I have enrolled my son in a private bi-lingual school, where most classes are taut in English [to predominately Thai students], but it is based in BKK and have a long history of doing this. Village-schools cannot be able to do this at all. And poorer students that might not keep up with the English part from the start will fall behind in several subjects instead of only one.

And I have to say, back home all subjects was taut in my native language and I turned out fine. The solution is to add PROPER English classes, stop dubbing foreign shows, add more foreign content to TV etc etc. Average Thai people have no use of this.

[bannork]

This project will work because the minister implementing it is a practical and level headed man. He will only implement it in schools that have qualified and able teachers and students whose English is up to scratch.

It's not going to be a mega project, more step by step.

[selftaopath]

I think that the MOE will need to rely on Filipino teachers to teach math and science in English, because the Thai teachers don't have the English skills, and most western TEFL'ers aren't qualified to teach math or science.

I am told that many Thai schools hire foreigners to teach, however do not - I repeat do not - grant a work permit to these individuals. Very little amazes me in Amazing Thailand.

I viewed Chinese high school students being interviewed on ??? BBC or CNN. These students spoke English better than many Americans.

[selftaopath]

Our school recently went through a major evaluation by the MOE. They were at the school for the better part of a week. They took absolutely no interest in the English component of the program and it appears that they took little interest in the Thai portion. Rumor has it that there criticisms were:

1. The students don't wai well enough.

2. They don't sing the National Anthem up to their specifications.

3. They don't march well enough.

4. Notebooks are not ticked by the teachers neatly enough.

5. Lesson plans were not done using the correct format (Thai Teachers).

6. The bulletin boards in front of the classes were not beautiful enough.

So the next one, they will be looking for Thai Teachers who are speaking jibberish in Science and Math Classes.

Perhaps the MOE evaluators were commenting on their field of expertise.

[Xangsamhua]

This project will work because the minister implementing it is a practical and level headed man. He will only implement it in schools that have qualified and able teachers and students whose English is up to scratch.

It's not going to be a mega project, more step by step.

I wonder if what we've been responding to is not the Minister's intention, but the Nation's confused reporting.

[PeaceBlondie]

I am told that many Thai schools hire foreigners to teach, however do not - I repeat do not - grant a work permit to these individuals. Very little amazes me in Amazing Thailand.

Maybe that's off topic, but let's discuss. Who knows the numbers? When polled in the last couple of years, most farang teachers in Thai schools give WP's. Many language centers can't give WP's..