Daewoo Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I only spend 2 weeks to a month in Thailand each year, living the rest of the time surrounded by farrangese in farangolia... I have taught myself to read, write and speak a little Thai, but because of my limited opportunity to use it, my vocabulary is pretty limited... I am always concerned that since much of my Thai is learnt from talking to Issan Girls working in bars (opportunity to engage, rather than choice), I will use either inapproapriate or crude language in public... For example, walking through the market with 'good girl' Thai friend... She is some distance ahead, and I need to get her attention... I don't want to call her 'nong' because she is almost the same age, or even if she is much younger, I don't want her/others to think I see her as younger, or as my young sister... I don't want to call her "pii" as she is younger... I don't know if I should call her "teerak", because she isn't really my sweetheart, i.e. girlfriend, even if she is a sweetheart to me, and I am worried she would be embarassed is a farrang called her sweatheart in public (I would call her that in private)... I don't want to just call out her name without "khun" in front, because I want others to know I respect her, and I don't want to yell out with "khun", because we are good friends, and it seems overly formal... what are my options??? Cheers, Daewoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artamus Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I always use "khun <name> krap". None of the Thai ladies I have been with have objected/commented, so I take it that this is OK for most situations. I also get called "khun <name> ka", so I am just repeating what they are using. There may well be "better" choices for specific occasions but I think it's a good general bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaam local Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 khun may be too formal between friends, so for good balance I would suggest name+krap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyLew Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 "Yo wazzzz up" works for me I now have a the little kids in the condo saying it Can just see them saying it to their school teachers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerontion Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I usually find a loud "meung na lair" at top volume works best. Actually, maybe not. khun may be too formal between friends, so for good balance I would suggest name+krap. That sounds like good advice. If you're not sure, name+krap is going to be fairly safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daewoo Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 I usually find a loud "meung na lair" at top volume works best.Actually, maybe not. khun may be too formal between friends, so for good balance I would suggest name+krap. That sounds like good advice. If you're not sure, name+krap is going to be fairly safe. meung na lair - rice paddy girl??? Muang - Town Na - Rice field, Lair - don't know I usually use 'name khrup' so that is all good, nice to know I didn't embarass anyone... The girls in question are not usually too concerned, it is more that I don't want to accidentaly insult them or 'talk down' to them in public... Thanks for your help, more questions to follow... Cheers, Daewoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgs2001uk Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I usually find a loud "meung na lair" at top volume works best.Actually, maybe not. khun may be too formal between friends, so for good balance I would suggest name+krap. That sounds like good advice. If you're not sure, name+krap is going to be fairly safe. meung na lair - rice paddy girl??? Muang - Town Na - Rice field, Lair - don't know I usually use 'name khrup' so that is all good, nice to know I didn't embarass anyone... The girls in question are not usually too concerned, it is more that I don't want to accidentaly insult them or 'talk down' to them in public... Thanks for your help, more questions to follow... Cheers, Daewoo I would avoid using at all costs meung na lair, I usually hear meung tor lair used by bar girls. Best advice I can give is to forget you have even heard these expressions, you certainly wont endear yourself to polite Thais on the whole if you ever use them, most Thais would even express concern at the sort of company you keep if you admit to knowing these expressions. Avoid at all costs, wouldnt even use this sort of language jokingly in a bar. Name plus khrap every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomster Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 don't want to call her 'nong' because she is almost the same age thats sick man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadish_sweetball Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Just use her nickname with a 'khrap' after it. It's not disrespectful if you are good friends and you really shouldn't worry too much about what the market vendors think, they will have enough to gossip about no matter what route you choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daewoo Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) I would avoid using at all costs meung na lair, I usually hear meung tor lair used by bar girls.Best advice I can give is to forget you have even heard these expressions, you certainly wont endear yourself to polite Thais on the whole if you ever use them, most Thais would even express concern at the sort of company you keep if you admit to knowing these expressions. Hence my problem, I know that if I speak using Thai terms reserved for bar girls, the people that hear me speaking to my teerak with assume she is a bar girl, which she is not. They will also assume that I spend a great deal of time with bar girls, which may be the case, but is not the image I want to portray... A mate of mine speaks very good Thai, but he says that most Thai's know, because of his use of 'issanisms' or low class words, that he has learnt the majority of it from teachers who can be hired by the night... I don't want that, and especially don't want people thinking that of the good girls I know (or the bad girls really)... don't want to call her 'nong' because she is almost the same agethats sick man Hey, what can I say, old chicks dig me... ... P.S. I am only talking mid thirties, although the woman I always call Nong Sow is 55 ... Young chicks may look good, and feel good, but we just don't have anything to tak about... Just use her nickname with a 'khrap' after it. It's not disrespectful if you are good friends and you really shouldn't worry too much about what the market vendors think, they will have enough to gossip about no matter what route you choose. It isn't just the stall holders, but the general public as well... I want them thinking "She's a lucky girl to be be a good girl, to have a handsome farrang with her, who can speak Thai" rather than she's working... Thanks all for your advice... Next Question... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/dop-Salop-Sa...an-t322420.html Daewoo Edited December 16, 2009 by Daewoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellste Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Just call her Darling, or her Nick-name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everydaysthesame Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 whats wrong with her name + ja ? krap a bit formal considering the context in my humble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetongue Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 whats wrong with her name + ja ?krap a bit formal considering the context in my humble opinion, or the shortest name you have there's usually about 3 + ja if you want to show affection, krap is too formal except for tv or situations such as bank tellers or call centre staff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thongkorn Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Sorry to tell you , but if she is a good person . like any other National , she would probably just ignore you, you do not just call out to people you do not know its bad manners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangkorn Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Sorry to tell you , but if she is a good person . like any other National , she would probably just ignore you, you do not just call out to people you do not know its bad manners. The OP said that she was a friend, and that they went to the market together. Otherwise, you would be correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oevna Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Sorry to tell you , but if she is a good person . like any other National , she would probably just ignore you, you do not just call out to people you do not know its bad manners. I have not found this to be true. I have often called out to Thai people I do not know (older, younger, male and female) using "Phi khrap!" or "Nong khrap!" on various occasions, usually to ask directions or some other advice. In some cases I am ignored, but in most cases not. It seems to have to do with context, your tone of voice, your appearance, etc. That said, in almost any situation where you are not sure of the relative age of a woman compared to yours, it's usually safest to call her "nong", since that implies that you think she is younger than she may actually be. As in many cultures, it's better to err on that side than the other. Phi and Nong are always polite, if a bit familiar. They are completely appropriate for use with friends. Some others mentioned "meung". Do not use this word in almost any situation other than with very close friends (and even then, only if you hear them use it frst when addressing you). It is seen as a very rude word for "you" (with its counterpart "gu" meaning "I" or "me", also very rude), and will probably be met with contempt in almost all cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daewoo Posted December 18, 2009 Author Share Posted December 18, 2009 (edited) I have not found this to be true. I have often called out to Thai people I do not know (older, younger, male and female) using "Phi khrap!" or "Nong khrap!" on various occasions, usually to ask directions or some other advice. In some cases I am ignored, but in most cases not. It seems to have to do with context, your tone of voice, your appearance, etc.That said, in almost any situation where you are not sure of the relative age of a woman compared to yours, it's usually safest to call her "nong", since that implies that you think she is younger than she may actually be. As in many cultures, it's better to err on that side than the other. This is intersting... Obviously in Australia that would be correct where youth equals beauty... one of said good girls was with me and called to the waitress who was probably nearly 5 years younger, and called her "Pii" i.e. "pii kha, check bin kha" or something... when I asked why, it was because age equals respect, and therefore it is more polite... I wonder if that was because it was female - female... because of that I will usually call everyone "pii" if I want to attract their attention, unless they are much younger than myself... Wonder what is more correct... Phi and Nong are always polite, if a bit familiar. They are completely appropriate for use with friends. Some others mentioned "meung". Do not use this word in almost any situation other than with very close friends (and even then, only if you hear them use it frst when addressing you). It is seen as a very rude word for "you" (with its counterpart "gu" meaning "I" or "me", also very rude), and will probably be met with contempt in almost all cases. So Meung would be like me yelling "Hey You" to someone??? I really do appreciate the replies... I think it is important (well it is to me) that we try to create a better impression with the Thai's than most farrang seem to... Cheers, Daewoo Edited December 18, 2009 by Daewoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadish_sweetball Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 So Meung would be like me yelling "Hey You" to someone??? Worse. If used to a stranger it would come off as 'I want to pick a fight with you by addressing you with the most impolite pronoun there is to use for a stranger'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangkorn Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 This is intersting... Obviously in Australia that would be correct where youth equals beauty... one of said good girls was with me and called to the waitress who was probably nearly 5 years younger, and called her "Pii" i.e. "pii kha, check bin kha" or something... when I asked why, it was because age equals respect, and therefore it is more polite... I wonder if that was because it was female - female... because of that I will usually call everyone "pii" if I want to attract their attention, unless they are much younger than myself... There seems to be a lot of flexibility in the usage of "pii." Occasionally, I go to a sauna in Sathorn that is predominately frequented by old Thai-Chinese guys. Apart from the therapeutic effects, I get to listen to a lot of discussions for political insight into what this class of people thinks. The other day, a guy of about 25 was there, and another guy of 50+ years always referred to him as "pii" in conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsch22 Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 So Meung would be like me yelling "Hey You" to someone??? Worse. If used to a stranger it would come off as 'I want to pick a fight with you by addressing you with the most impolite pronoun there is to use for a stranger'. Agreed; very much worse. I cannot think of any circumstances in which it is actually appropriate for a Farang to use the expression "Meung". I attempted to use it a few times many years ago and was told by a couple of Thais whose judgement I respect that I was doing myself no favours and that there were much better ways of demonstrating my proficiency in the local language. During the last several years I have used the word (and its counterpart "Kuu") only in conversation with (a) my computer and ( mosquitoes and other biting insects. My wife agrees that those usages are innocuous and do no worse than to confirm my position as a harmless eccentric. It is important to appreciate that as a Farang you can never be a Thai and there are certain situations (and this is one of them) in which close and accurate emulation of a Thai is not necessarily the right course. My wife might very occasionally use "Meung"" during a heated argument with a sibling when nobody else was present except for family members, but it would never ever be right for me to do so even though I am (now, at last) a family member. I am a Farang, you see. And hence, even though "one of the family", not ever "one of them". My answer to the original question of the OP is: "Khun [Name] Khrap" is never wrong because "too polite" is an oxymoron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilokarat Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Avoid Khon Baan Nok too. Most of the people I have met in Isaan have nicknames such as E Dum Ling (black monkey), E Panda and so on. If I want to call E Dum Ling, I just say, 'Dum Dum' and that gets her attention. On the other hand, I am not permitted to call my very special friend by her nickname of 'E Panda' or there will be dire consequences. However, she likes me to call her elder sister 'Dum Dum' in public, as she always breaks out laughing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aanon Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 (edited) While I'm not saying this as a recommendation, I do use กู and มึง in certain situations and would feel limited without them. An example is when I'm recounting funny conversations I've had in English. If the punchline to the conversation was something like "Jesus! That <deleted>' story was longer than your whole marriage!" or "Then what the hel_l did you ask me for in the first place?" or "Well, if she likes you her taste can't be that good!", then I may well use กู and/or มึง in the translation in order to be truer to the tone of the original. This is referring to third parties, or perhaps myself and a third party. I can't think of a case where I've used มึง to a person directly. If I ever did, it would be either for comic effect (with obvious comic delivery) or because I really needed it to express a strong emotion like anger. In short, I don't choose to use กู and มึง as freely as a Thai might with his or her friends; nor, however, do I see them as out of bounds for us Thai-as-second-language speakers. aanon ps. On the age-youth issue, you will come across both a) people using พี่ in order to show respect and some people insisting that others don't use 'correct' titles (like พี่, ป้า or ลุง) to address them because they don't want to show/feel their age. Edited December 19, 2009 by aanon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johpa Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Pardon me, but if she is some distance ahead and you call out loudly, regardless of pronoun or title, you have already made a social gaff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 (edited) If she is really your friend there is nothing wrong with p followed by her name or just nong (add a krap if you think necessary). Of course how loud you have to say it makes a difference. I prefer to throw a small rock if the person in question too far for respectful communication Edited December 19, 2009 by canuckamuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bina Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 i get called ghe or khun nang or pi when thai guys dont know how to call me or speak to me or about me; btw, thai hubby refers to most people if he isnt sure about age , as pi. like, if he doesnt know the name, than 'pi' blalbalba.... ive never heard him call anyone nong except when he is talking with someone who is know as younger then him, but not a real friend and not pi/nong ie. only when having a converstation with what we would consider an aquaintance like: if nong (referring to the male friend) wants to call so and so, blablabla. when with real pi/nong relationships (even if not really brothers and sisters) then pi stays pi, and the nong just get called by their names. as in " pi lek, do u want a beer? jai, take one also" type of conversations. bina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thongkorn Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Pardon me, but if she is some distance ahead and you call out loudly, regardless of pronoun or title, you have already made a social gaff. Thats exactly what i said . Thais do not raise there voices its classed as bad manners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aanon Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Thais do not raise there voices its classed as bad manners. It's not correct to say that "Thais don't raise their voices". Further, doing so may be considered bad manners in some cases, but certainly not all. On the other hand, the spectacle of a farang calling out a Thai name may cause embarrassment for the receiving party, which it would be reasonable to try to avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juehoe Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I always use "khun <name> krap" I also use the «Khun <Nickname>» version - even for friends or my girlfriend (not alwys «thii rak»...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montri69 Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Nong + name or nickname + Ja for close friends or family - followed by "Maa Nii" while gesturing with hand up, fingers down waving towards you if you want her to come and look at something or ask her a question. If she is really far away just close the gap first. Chok Dee Krup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bina Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 the hand up with fingers down and waving... yep, thats 'come here' which here is the reverse, tis a rather rude, 'get away from me'!!! bina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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