Do You Let Thai Men Hold Your 7 Mth Old Baby Daugter

[Dakhar]

I agree with OP. Last thing he needs is someone with herpes kissing his baby. Do you think villagers understand what herpes is and how it is transmitted? Kids are susceptible to meningitis. Adults can be carriers etc. etc. etc. To those that think the OP is over protective, his duty is to the security and well being of the infant and no one else.

agreed

TB, hepatitis, Herpes.... alll kind of fun things

[noahvail]

I am most concerned about the OP's last sentence. Child abuse happens here as it does all over the world. The vast majority of abusers are family members and trusted friends of the family. It can only take a minute, though if the opportunity presents itself, can take much longer. Here, as in much of the world, there is a code of silence about abusers...abuse and abusers are rarely talked about. My step-daughter was abused by her birth-father at a very young age. That has affected her personality development, just as it does to many if not most victims of child abuse at a young age.

That being said, there is a huge difference between being vigilant and hyper-vigilant. Vigilance in this case is laudable and within the norm. Hyper-vigilance without reason is outside the norm, and can produce issues around social interactions and separation anxiety. Hyper-vigilance is the opposite side of extreme laxity. Neither extreme tends to turn out well.

Obviously, this is just a brief overview. It is up to the parents - both parents - to determine the appropriate course of action for bringing up their child, taking into consideration both sets of cultural norms, the area in which they live, and their hopes for the future for themselves as parents and spouses.

Just my 2 satang...

[Scott]

There is a difference between people living in a village and people living in a large city. No responsible parent would generally be allowing strangers to handle their child. People who are drunk or obviously ill should also be avoided. Living in a small, tightly knit community is a whole different matter. Most everyone knows everyone else and you know who to trust and who not to.

Thailand provides some unique challenges, since children are sometimes passed around like a toy. Most responsible parents will simply go over and take their baby back. We have an inborn innate curiosity about young children and an inborn respect for the protectiveness of parents.

I find it a little troubling that the OP singles out Thai men as well. He is going to experience a lot of stress if that attitude persists throughout her growing up years.

[BangkokJazz]

I do agree that you don't want your child passed around like a sack of potatoes, and certainly never taken away from your site like that, unless with a trusted relative. Try to have some rules, but make sure they are not "Farang anal retentive". If a sister in law is watching your child, please let her know that you prefer it if strangers do not hold him, you and your wife should be the ultimate authority on who should hold yoru child or not.

Also, you need to discuss this with your wife. If her English is not good enough to have that converstation, then you need to get some help and have it anyway. It will save a lot of hassles.

[whistleblower]

I dont let other people other than family hold our daughter. The main reasons for this is i dont want her to get sick (at 9 months old she hasnt had all her jabs yet) and also on the whole i dont like/agree with the way a lot of Thais behave/act/treat/protect their own children. By this I mean taking babies on motorcycles, no seatbelts in cars, standing on the front seat of a car with face on windshield etc. We have kids in the appartment who after coming home from school play downstairs (not a designated playing area) just on the steps next to the road and the parents never come down and check on them till its time to go to bed. If they dont protect their own kids they are hardly likely to worry about someone else.

To the OP: I would have kicked my wife into the middle of next week if she had just let someone take our daughter anywhere that she couldnt see her.

[MeMock]

Children under 1 year should not be touched by anyone but the immediate family, if they are touched by a stranger they should be completely washed right away especialy in a third world country.

I will probably be told off or banned for this but seriously mate, you are **flame removed**

[p_brownstone]

I believe the OP mentions “Thai men” for the simple reason that is unusual for men (of any race, but the OP’s in Thailand so he specifies Thai men) to pick up and play with a young child. Women have a maternal instinct which draws them to any infant – particularly a “luk kreung” or unusually attractive child; there is no comparable emotion in a “normal” male adult.

The rather rabid “why pick on Thai men” Posts come from women married to Thai men who perhaps feel the distinction is directed at them or their choice of Partner.

Understandable perhaps, but the bias does not help the OP.

Patrick

[midasthailand]

Your being seriously overprotective.

New parents are often overprotective, but try and relax. You and your wife need to keep an eye on whose playing with and handling the baby, but relax a little. My first one, I was worried about a lot of things, by the third one, anyone wanted to take care of him was fine with me.

you have kids?

I was busy for the 2 days and my gf brought my kid when he was 5months i think to the market with her mom working there.

Thereafter he was sick for a week then i had to bring him to the hospital and they had to put him tubes in his lunges and administer some heavy medicine that made him scream for his life for hours.(when if you drop him on his head he doesn't even cry for more than 2secs)

funny thing is, he never got sick again, not even a cold(i had swine flu and he was fine living with me in a condo all day long).

Children under 1 year should not be touched by anyone but the immediate family, if they are touched by a stranger they should be completely washed right away especialy in a third world country.

I am curious as to how many times you dropped your child on his head? I have three adult children and none of them were ever dropped on their head but were handled and held by family friends and the occasional stranger (isn't he/she cute while touching the face of the child). My observation here in Thailand is that children under three pretty much get given to whoever has the time or inclination to spend time with them. I would bridle at my offspring being held by a drunk but apart from that I would be more likely to allow my infant to be held by a Thai (male or female) than natives of my home country.

[mauGR1]

I think the OP has all the rights to be concerned about his baby.

Being over protective with such a young child is a must.

As the baby grows up you can relax a little bit.

Perhaps being over protective is a mistake,but not being protective is a bigger one.

I would not worry about the germs issue,neither is likely the baby being molested or kidnapped,i would be concerned nonetheless about some drunk people holding the baby,just too dangerous.

[Moonrakers]

As a father myself, I fully agree that the OP has the right or indeed the obligation to protect his child.

However, I can't help but to think that his concerns are born through snobbery and a hint of racism rather than a genuine concern.

[Boo]

The rather rabid “why pick on Thai men” Posts come from women married to Thai men who perhaps feel the distinction is directed at them or their choice of Partner.

umm, is my comment only considered rabid because I am a women then? I see a couple of male posters had also brought this up but I am singled out for what reason? My post was not rabid but I was disturbed that someone living in thailand, married to a thai women seemed to have such an issue with 30million of the population. IMO Thai people don't see a pedo at every turn & therefore it is quite normal for thai men to be able to carry a child without fear of being labelled a pervert as they aren't one & are just being kind to a child. I don't' see the op mention that the child was just picked up by a random thai man, they were in a group & his wife was present, so hardly the pervert stalking the school yard as some of the more hysterical posts on this topic are alluding to.

[sbk]

I believe the OP mentions “Thai men” for the simple reason that is unusual for men (of any race, but the OP’s in Thailand so he specifies Thai men) to pick up and play with a young child. Women have a maternal instinct which draws them to any infant – particularly a “luk kreung” or unusually attractive child; there is no comparable emotion in a “normal” male adult.

Patrick

Interesting you say that because in my 20 years of living in a rural area in Thailand, surrounded by both Thai men and women I have found that Thai men have just as much an interest in children and babies as the women do. And, in fact, after living in Taiwan, I found the Taiwanese men to be the same.

[needforspeed]

I think the OP has all the rights to be concerned about his baby.

Being over protective with such a young child is a must.

As the baby grows up you can relax a little bit.

Perhaps being over protective is a mistake,but not being protective is a bigger one.

I would not worry about the germs issue,neither is likely the baby being molested or kidnapped,i would be concerned nonetheless about some drunk people holding the baby,just too dangerous.

Agree, most people hands are cleaner than your computer keyboard at home.

As some other poster said, look how they take care there own children (bikes, playing on streets, pich-up trucks ect), so dont let any one except family and close friend hold my daughter.

[fletchsmile]

Friends and family - usually no objections to them holding the children. Drunks shouldn't be allowed.

My wife is actually generally more protective for the kids being out of her sight - I put that down to strong maternal instincts - and she often points out the danger of stories that can happen in Thailand, kidnappings etc. So we rarely have an issue there.

One cultural general observation I would make is that Thais seem to worry less about small things (in their view), such as not wearing seatbelts, standing up in the front of a car, leaving scissors and knives around, leaving a hot iron plugged in unattended or even hot after use, no motorcycle helmets etc. Their wonderful ability to live in the moment seems a disadvantage when thinking about potential accidents.

[needforspeed]

Friends and family - usually no objections to them holding the children. Drunks shouldn't be allowed.

My wife is actually generally more protective for the kids being out of her sight - I put that down to strong maternal instincts - and she often points out the danger of stories that can happen in Thailand, kidnappings etc. So we rarely have an issue there.

One cultural general observation I would make is that Thais seem to worry less about small things (in their view), such as not wearing seatbelts, standing up in the front of a car, leaving scissors and knives around, leaving a hot iron plugged in unattended or even hot after use, no motorcycle helmets etc. Their wonderful ability to live in the moment seems a disadvantage when thinking about potential accidents.

(IN THEIR VIEW) that is correct as small things couses the most accidents, electricity, hotwater, iron, small toys (children put in there mouth) very dangerous, other things many Thais dont worried about is the cheap children toys availeble in every mini markt for 10 and 20 baht with parts falling of even as the paint and they located next to schools, this things realy worries me.

[fletchsmile]

I don't see an issue in specifying "Thai men". Thai men as strangers do have a tendency to touch other people's kids more so than the west. So the point above about "Thai men" is valid. I rarely see a western male stranger try and touch our kids, so it doesn't come up. Thai men often do this. I don't touch strangers kids uninvited, so naturally prefer the same. I don't like them doing it, but tend to write it off as a cultural difference and tolerate it as harmless intent.

Unfortunately though, it often upsets a young child to be grabbed by a stranger. If the Thai guy realises he shouldn't really have grabbed the kid, and seems a little awkward and embarassed then it easily stops there. For some reason though even if the child screams sometimes the same Thai male will sometimes try again - almost as if they "have to do it". I'm never sure why they do this, whether it's some form of having to get their own way (like a child) or some form of having lost face or inability to take rejection. Not all, just some. I find this more worrying that an adult Thai male sometimes cannot seem to accept the child's distressed about the situation, and puts themsleves above what the child is feeling. I'm sure again in 99% of the cases it's harmless, but I don't like it - so on the second occasion they will receive a look or a few short words from me explaining that the kid is unhappy with their behaviour. I don't think I've ever had to do this to a western male stranger.

Edited December 18, 2009 by fletchsmile

[Boo]

thai women will grab my son & even when he cries out or even pushes them away & shouts no will still try to grab him. I think you will find this is thailand specific & not specific to thai men only . Even when they see how it distresses him will laugh at him & then shout & make to grab at him again. As his mother it is my job to step in & tell these people to back off, which is what I do but if they are being kind & he isn't bothered by them then I keep an eye but allow the interaction.

Maybe I should start a topic titled, Do you let thai women touch your children & post the same as the op but change man to women see how many men with thai wives object to that.

[Garry]

I agree with OP. Last thing he needs is someone with herpes kissing his baby. Do you think villagers understand what herpes is and how it is transmitted? Kids are susceptible to meningitis. Adults can be carriers etc. etc. etc. To those that think the OP is over protective, his duty is to the security and well being of the infant and no one else.

Totally agree with you, I don't know how many times I've told people not to kiss my young daughter on the face and especially not on the lips. If I don't do it and my wife doesn't do it, then sure as hel_l no other person will be allowed to do it. My daughter isn't living in a bubble and needs to develop her immune system but at the risk of a permanent disease, then mum and myself will try and control access to her as much as possible.

Edited December 18, 2009 by Garry

[MrHammer]

'Children being passed around as toys', 'drunks holding baby', 'random men picking up children'?

The Thai way?

What a load of crock. Keep your child away from them or move out of the village.

[sbk]

Honestly if its a small village they are hardly "random men" are they? At least, in my small village, everyone knows everyone else (and everyone knows everyone else's business for that matter) so, in that sense, hardly random. Random implies some kind of environment with people who are not your wife's friends and your neighbors.

As for the passing around thing. It is, I suspect, a rural thing, as I have seen (many times I might add) a group of Thai women all sitting around in a big circle, passing the new baby along. Agree or not, its a done thing at least where I live.

[fletchsmile]

thai women will grab by son & even when he cries out or even pushes them away & shouts no will still try to grab him. I think you will find this is thailand specific & not specific to thai men only . Even when they see how it distresses him will laugh at him & then shout & make to grab at him again. As his mother it is my job to step in & tell these people to back off, which is what I do but if they are being kind & he isn't bothered by them then I keep an eye but allow the interaction.

Pretty much agree, it's a Thai thing.

If my daughter doesn't object then neither do I, regardless of my own views. If she objects once I leave it. If she has to object a second time I would step in whether dealing with a male or female - assuming they're strangers. I think there's also a few more dimensions. Also not forgetting you have a son rather than a daughter. Points to add:

1) Our small daughter tends to be more afraid of men that she doesn't know compared to females she doesn't know.

2) I'd also say both Western women and Thai women who are strangers do sometimes touch kids they don't know. Whereas the Thai woman may do a second time if the kid objects, the western woman rarely does.

3) Because the western male rarely touches kids as a stranger, and because young kids generally tend to be more afraid of males than females the cultural difference is more noticeable between Thai males.

Edited December 18, 2009 by fletchsmile

[jackr]

Never had a problem with people grabbing my boy as it's not really the form in this neighbourhood... most are well educated, have good jobs and own a home. Was out at a local restaurant few years back, though, and this random woman (who had her own child) kept coming over to try and feed the boy with a handful of rice. <deleted>! Please FO!

Op, I think you should grab the wife n kid and move to other end of country

[Moonrakers]

I think that the OP has likely only met Thai males who are the type to sit about all day doing nothing but drinking Lao Khao and then assume that all Thai males are the same.

The Thai lads that I know would not even consider passing my daughter around as a toy, even when we have had a few drinks together and they treat my daughter, and my wife and I as parents, with respect all the time.

[bina]

Most random males will observe a child and smile.. a random male picking it up and touching your child is STRANGE. Especially when you child is really young, can easily get sick or hurt.

i dont know, do i live on a different planet? on kibbutz, moshav, even in the middle of town, if a child cries, u will see both male and female heads turning or approaching the crying child, usually also offerring food (the national child's food, a peanut based baby cracker). here, if a child cries, u will find even young boys will come over and offer their hand to the cryng child, to find mom or pop. as for holding babies, israeli men love to kiss and scrunch/cuddle others' babies just as much.

germs: as sbk or boo pointed out, once babie start crawling, they put everthing and anything in their mouths so are exposed anyhow.

around here, also, we pick up strange kids or engage in interactions with them, its a common sight even on a bus as pregnant women or women with a child on her hands gets help from others on the bus. my husband held a child on the bus the other day while the poor woman struggled with two more and getting her money out of her purse and holding a zillion shopping bags, AND HE IS A THAI MALE, and very unusual on an israeli bus, no one thought it strange, and the woman thanked him.

after about age three months, we also stop with the super sterility EXCEPT between handling babies nappies, or otehr cleaning activities.

super sterility and possessivness are usually signs of parents that are either very new, have little self confidence, or they themselves come from very cold and sterile families with minimal physical contact.

bina

israel

i think its the anglo sense of personal space which leaves lots of room one from an other. thai personal space is very close.

i recently picked up a crying child (german, at that) in our hotel, while the parents both were distracted with something else: i reached down, and the toddler reached up, i spoke to her in hebrew but my voice probably conveyed security and we went to look for mom. in the states iw ould be accused of kidnapping probably. btw, im female but dont like others' babies generally.

[Maigo6]

Motorcycle Taxi guys used to pick my son up, but after he had headbutted them, they never bothered again.

Teach your kids how to headbut people, problem solved.

[Maigo6]

Motorcycle Taxi guys used to pick my son up, but after he had headbutted them, they never bothered again.

Teach your kids how to headbut people, problem solved.

[phetaroi]

Why specifically "Thai Men"... like they have some kind of propensity to molest 7 month old babies?

Surely you need to change tone to "I don't like people that I don't know touching my baby"... then you sound normal.

I have mixed feelings about this thread, and you have hit one of them right on the head. In this forum I repeatedly see expats express forms about Thais being xenophobic. The way the OP was originally written smacks of xenophobia.

On the other hand, I don't exactly think babies should be "passed around". Relatives and very close friends, okay. Yet, I think back to where I was a principal in the States, and when a teacher would bring her new baby in for a visit, boy did that kid get passed around.

As Red Skelton once said: "It's not fair. When little babies are all wrinkled up and ugly, every woman wants to kiss them and hold them and tickle their chin. Then when you get to be my age and really need it...NOTHING!"

[phetaroi]

I do agree that you don't want your child passed around like a sack of potatoes, and certainly never taken away from your site like that, unless with a trusted relative. Try to have some rules, but make sure they are not "Farang anal retentive". If a sister in law is watching your child, please let her know that you prefer it if strangers do not hold him, you and your wife should be the ultimate authority on who should hold yoru child or not.

Also, you need to discuss this with your wife. If her English is not good enough to have that converstation, then you need to get some help and have it anyway. It will save a lot of hassles.

One of the better posts in the thread. Especially about needing to have a discussion with the wife...coming to some common ground...realizing it's just as much her child as yours...and coming to a mutual agreement about what's acceptable.

[GuestHouse]

A random male holding your dautgher is much more worrying then a random woman.

Why would i say that?

Because you like to play your part in the thoughtless conspiracy that says all men are child molesters.

Observation No 1.

This is the OP's daughter, he has the right to decide what he believes is appropriate child caring for his child - He might be wrong in some respects - but show me a parent raising children who does not get a hel_l of a lot of things wrong - as my own father once commented - Child rearing is something you don't know how to do until your kids have grown up and left home.

Observation No 2.

I think the actual risk the mother is allowing the child to be exposed to is disease, not from unwashed hands, but the whole gambit of diseases a child at 7 months old has no immunity to. Many of those child hood diseases we get jabs for do not follow the rule 'What doesn't kill you makes you stronger' - Some can and do give rise to blindness, brain damage, and growth deformity.

I think the father here is right to be concerned about his child being handed around the village before she has had at least her first batch of childhood inoculations.

Observation No 3.

Well of course the mother is Thai and this is Thailand so they can do no wrong.

[Orac]

I suppose a lot of it has to do with the nature of your surroundings and your comfort level within them. As has been stated by others, the community spirit in our small village is far removed from anything I have seen in the UK and it appears to be more of a case that, not only does everyone know everyone else but everyone seems to have decended from three familys here with many links between them - it is virtually impossible here to find anyone who cannot be expressed as related in some way.

Also, rather than take my lead from the media and what I hear from other sources which seem to thrive on a climate of fear and worry, I am happy with my own observations of the people surrounding my daughter, particularly the other children in the village where, despite there being a lot of poverty, the kids are all healthy, polite and well behave. Despite the poor conditions here they have clearly being well brought up and are a credit to their parents - if I can do as good a job as they have then I will be a very happy.