Ed Visa Extensions Now Subjected To "testing" At Changwattana

[jazzbo]

I’d be surprised if Immigration can bring in formal exams without the MOE... As, according to the Thai MFA website "The granting of change of type of visa and extension of stay is at the discretion of the immigration officer," I'd be surprised that if the MOE tried to get involved in the granting of extensions of stay to ED Visas or otherwise, the Dept. of Imm would not tell them to go <deleted>> themselves.

[jazzbo]

The Department of Immigration currently has the sole purview and authority to issue 'Extensions of Stay' at 1900 Baht per pop. The notion that the DoImm (Royal Thai Police) would willingly give the Ministry of Education an angle to muscle in on that bureaucratic goldmine is silly.

[granuaile]

Okay, just got back home after a stint in Area N at Changwattana Immigrations where they do the extensions for ED visas.

Here's my story...

...

The end results of my trip; I can neither confirm nor deny that there is any type of testing or vetting going on for ED visa extensions for people enrolled in thai language classes at private schools.

Guess we'll hafta wait until someone who’s gone and extended their ED visa can report back here to us on the truth about testing.

Sorry this is kind of a let down report, but I gave it my best shot to get to the bottom of this conundrum.

Tod - you are wonderful. I'm not sure that I would have the courage to be that direct, and it sounds as if you got as close to an official explanation as one could get.

I am definitely not let down by this report, and it seems that there was nothing official. Perhaps they were just testing the concept. And perhaps as some have noted just idle conversation.

That said, I don't mind a test with my biggest concerns being the ad hoc nature and my own nervousness. Some sort of standard test would not be a bad thing, I think, except making the process longer. If we are here studying we should be willing after all to learn, even those individuals who are just trying to avoid visa runs.

Many thanks for this wonderful effort.

Granuaile

[jazzbo]

I think you gents are missing the point... The Dept. of Imm. does not really care what is your level of learning. Like art, or music, or math, or bowling, everyone has a different ability when it comes to learning languages. They just want to know that you in fact are attending classes... maybe take a digital photo of yourself in the classroom holding that day's newspaper or some other kind of receipt or some such that proves you attended class that day would satisfy your DoImm interrogator and then he/she would not have to give you a test.

[DegenFarang]

Just back from the 90 days report, the officer asked me about 5 basic questions in thai which shouldn't be any problems to answer if you studied more then 3 months, have attended class now for 6 month so no problems to answer the questions.

<deleted> is going on here, somebody is lying...

[DegenFarang]

-Yes they are testing

-No they aren't testing

-Multiple officials confirmed they are not testing

-I just got tested

[bow]

To quote from parts of a very visable ad here on the visa forum:

"Moving to Thailand?" "Visa problem?" "1 - 10 years ED visa." "Only 24,960 for 14 months !"

I suppose that it is understood that it is not enough to pay 24,000; you are also supposed to study, to get the visa.

I am, however, not surprised that some imm. police officers feel a bit provoked by this sort of ad.

[lizzy]

Just back from the 90 days report, the officer asked me about 5 basic questions in thai which shouldn't be any problems to answer if you studied more then 3 months, have attended class now for 6 month so no problems to answer the questions.

Were the questions asked as in a "test" or just general polite conversation/chit chat?

There is a difference!

[Tod Daniels]

It is true there are certainly no shortages of conflicting reports. But having said that as well as having went out there myself it certainly didn't appear to me there is any "testing" of applicants extending their visas.

It is worth noting (as "lizzy" pointed out) there is a clear difference between being "tested" and having the Immigrations Officer politely 'chit-chat' with you in basic thai while she reviews your paperwork. The later, in my opinion, in and of itself does NOT constitute "testing" by any stretch of the imagination. The only poster who was told by Immigrations in their opinion his thai wasn't up to snuff was the poster who has the thread about Jomtien's Immigrations.

As I said, we can only wait to hear first hand reports of people who actually went to Changwattana and received their 90 day extension for studying thai. With some schools having 1400+ enrolled students, that equates to over 5000 extensions in a year, so someone will report back soon I'm sure. I'll also see if the thai language teachers I know who work at various and sundry schools will ask their students during class breaks to see what they can glean.

I am, however, not surprised that some imm. police officers feel a bit provoked by this sort of ad.

OMG "bow" you put entirely TOOO much emphasis on both foreigners’ own feeling of self importance here, and the ability of most thai bureaucrats to even comprehend a simply structured engrish sentence. IMHO, The higher ups in the government don't take a single second to plod thru the T/V Forum to ascertain what the foreigners living here are talking about. Contrary to the "overly paranoid brigade" who believes the thai government hangs on our every word.

[CWMcMurray]

It could have just been a one day "information collection" exercise. As others have said, if fully implemented, this would make a huge bottleneck in the visa extension process.

It is possible that after the huge increase in ED visa extension applications, they may have done it one day only in order to try to assess if there was a "problem" with people on ED visa extension, but not attending class.

If that is the case, there may be some immigration officers meeting about the "results" of the one day random testing and we may not hear anything about it again for a while or ever.

[Tod Daniels]

I put this on the thread about the alleged ED visa crack-down in Jomtien but will will reitierate my experience at Changwattana when I observed the process out there for a couple hours:

I have seen;

*NO evidence of either notes being taken about a person’s thai language proficiency (or lack thereof).

*NO data entry done by immigration officials so they could refer to a previous 'testing session' at a subsequent extension application.

*NO 'red warning stamps' from people I spoke with who were questioned ('tested') yet received their extensions.

One thing I am certain of is, as of now, there is NO "official test". In speaking to people who were questioned it seemed to be pretty much basic thai chit-chat which is implemented in a very off the cuff way.

Given the widely disparate methods language schools use to teach thai, it would be hard indeed to assess a students proficiency only on the length of time said student attended a thai language school. It would require a near complete over-haul of the system to create, implement and oversee a testing program like this for 90 day extensions. This isn’t saying it couldn’t be done, only that the cost to do it would possibly outweigh its benefit, and the queue of extension applicants waiting for testing would be mind wobbling. Even the test you take at the MOE when applying for a second year in-country extension to continue studying the thai language at a private school is haphazard at best and that’s run by the MOE.

It is worth noting that yesterday I ran into two “Tanawan School ‘O Thai” (Walen School) students who were questioned when they extended their visas the other day. One person swore he was ‘threatened’ by the officer that if his thai didn’t improve he would not receive another extension. His engrish was pretty coarse (some former Eastern Bloc country accent ). I could barely understand his engrish and couldn’t understand a single thing he said when he spoke thai, but he was adamant about his experience. The other guy was engrish and said it was basic chit-chat questions so jump to your own conclusions.

As I said earlier; We can only hope more people who extend their ED visas this coming week will report back...

[humbug]

I put this on the thread about the alleged ED visa crack-down in Jomtien but will will reitierate my experience at Changwattana when I observed the process out there for a couple hours:

I have seen;

*NO evidence of either notes being taken about a person's thai language proficiency (or lack thereof).

*NO data entry done by immigration officials so they could refer to a previous 'testing session' at a subsequent extension application.

*NO 'red warning stamps' from people I spoke with who were questioned ('tested') yet received their extensions.

One thing I am certain of is, as of now, there is NO "official test". In speaking to people who were questioned it seemed to be pretty much basic thai chit-chat which is implemented in a very off the cuff way.

Given the widely disparate methods language schools use to teach thai, it would be hard indeed to assess a students proficiency only on the length of time said student attended a thai language school. It would require a near complete over-haul of the system to create, implement and oversee a testing program like this for 90 day extensions. This isn't saying it couldn't be done, only that the cost to do it would possibly outweigh its benefit, and the queue of extension applicants waiting for testing would be mind wobbling. Even the test you take at the MOE when applying for a second year in-country extension to continue studying the thai language at a private school is haphazard at best and that's run by the MOE.

It is worth noting that yesterday I ran into two "Tanawan School 'O Thai" (Walen School) students who were questioned when they extended their visas the other day. One person swore he was 'threatened' by the officer that if his thai didn't improve he would not receive another extension. His engrish was pretty coarse (some former Eastern Bloc country accent ). I could barely understand his engrish and couldn't understand a single thing he said when he spoke thai, but he was adamant about his experience. The other guy was engrish and said it was basic chit-chat questions so jump to your own conclusions.

As I said earlier; We can only hope more people who extend their ED visas this coming week will report back...

In your post it mentions that those on 12 month extensions are subjected to a moe test for their next 12 month extension, so would that be the same for those on 90 day extensions to be subjected to a moe test after 4 extensions?

[Tod Daniels]

First off; I don’t know a single student who is studying thai at a private language school yet has gotten a 12 month extension which requires only reporting every 90 days. Macwalen had a few students early on enrolled at his Pattaya branch who did get 12 month extensions. It appeared to be more of a fluke due to immigrations being unfamiliar with the paperwork process. I believe he hasn’t had a student get another one in quite a long time.

I know people who received their ED visas from the EU, UK, or US and have a year long multi-entry ED visas but that type requires a border run every 90 days. The difference is almost moot, (except for the cost of the visa in those countries) as a border run from BKK cost about 2000baht with any of the visa-run companies, and another 90 day extension costs 1900baht at Changwattana.

In your post it mentions that those on 12 month extensions are subjected to a moe test for their next 12 month extension, so would that be the same for those on 90 day extensions to be subjected to a moe test after 4 extensions?

Sorry I wasn't clear about that;

People who do 'in-country' extensions on ED visas for study in a private thai language school get a years worth of extensions (4-90 day extensions), although sometimes the way they count days makes your last extension less than 90 days. AFTER that, IF they still want to study thai, don't want to leave thailand to secure another ED visa at a neighboring countries Thai consulate or embassy, and are enrolled in the school for another year, you will go to MOE and be 'interviewed' to assess your thai language skill.

Obviously the fact you've studied thai at least the MOE minimum of 180 hours in the last year comes into play to some degree. They do expect you to carry on at least a rudimentary conversation in thai.

Most private thai language schools have a special prep class to help groups of students who are continuing their education for another year. Then they coordinate with the students to go out to the MOE building and get your thru the interview process.

While I am not on an ED visa, from what I have heard from students continuing their thai language studies for a second year it is NOT that difficult of a test. They primarily interested in seeing if you're actually studying thai.

Again this is only for students who are continuing the 90 day in-country extension process for their thai language studies for another year AFTER their first year, without getting a new ED visa.

BACK ON TOPIC: I know some students who need their 90 day extensions this week and will be going to Changwattana. Hopefully I’ll have more concrete info about the ‘alleged testing’ for ED visas extensions…

[on-on]

I'm not subject to this or at all involved, but given the state of what's going on with the ed visa market it seems entirely possible that they're spot-checking on some kind of random whim schedule. Or maybe they've got someone from the central immigration bureau who bumps around to areas with suspected fraud (presumably Bangkok, Phuket and Pattaya, etc) and is sampling the population to assess the state of the problem. I have no idea, but I can imagine there being various explanations for inconsistency in reports of being tested or knowledge of the staff.

[DegenFarang]

First off; I don’t know a single student who is studying thai at a private language school yet has gotten a 12 month extension which requires only reporting every 90 days. Macwalen had a few students early on enrolled at his Pattaya branch who did get 12 month extensions. It appeared to be more of a fluke due to immigrations being unfamiliar with the paperwork process. I believe he hasn’t had a student get another one in quite a long time.

Wait, what? So you are saying that all Walen (and other) students are getting refused when they attempt to stay in Thailand for a second year after getting their first four 90-day extensions? Can anybody confirm this? If this is the case, why are all of the school's advertising 1-10 year Visa's if everybody is getting rejected for the second year?

[beechguy]

No, that's not what he said. He is saying that they are not receiving one year "Extensions of Stay". Those extensions don't require the student to exit the country every 90 days but do address reports. Currently they have to apply for an extension at immigration every 90 days, and that should continue as long as they attend school. In another part of his post, he explains that after the first year, you may need to get a new visa, or go through additional steps at the MOE to continue the extensiions.

Edited December 29, 2009 by beechguy

[bapak]

First off; I don’t know a single student who is studying thai at a private language school yet has gotten a 12 month extension which requires only reporting every 90 days. Macwalen had a few students early on enrolled at his Pattaya branch who did get 12 month extensions. It appeared to be more of a fluke due to immigrations being unfamiliar with the paperwork process. I believe he hasn’t had a student get another one in quite a long time.

Wait, what? So you are saying that all Walen (and other) students are getting refused when they attempt to stay in Thailand for a second year after getting their first four 90-day extensions? Can anybody confirm this? If this is the case, why are all of the school's advertising 1-10 year Visa's if everybody is getting rejected for the second year?

"So you are saying that all Walen (and other) students are getting refused when they attempt to stay in Thailand for a second year after getting their first four 90-day extensions" ....

This has not been the experience at our school. Not once has MOE requested student to be tested when entering the second year. Nor have we ever experienced a student being requested to go to MOE for any reason whatsoever.

[Tod Daniels]

No, that's not what he said. He is saying that they are not receiving one year "Extensions of Stay". Those extensions don't require the student to exit the country every 90 days but do address reports. Currently they have to apply for an extension at immigration every 90 days, and that should continue as long as they attend school. In another part of his post, he explains that after the first year, you may need to get a new visa, or go through additional steps at the MOE to continue the extensions.

The above post is exactly what I was trying to say. I think posters unfamiliarity with both visas as well as visa terminology often times leads to more misunderstandings on this forum than any other factor.

While the visa rules may seem oxymoronic at times, they are relatively simple to understand, as is the terminology. Unfortunately as different Immigrations offices in the various provinces are run as an entity to themselves, the same cannot be said for the interpretation and implementation of those rules. Changwattana and Jomtien run pretty close to the letter of the law, as do some of the new offices as evidenced by the posts people have made concerning them. One can only hope they will eventually all dial in and run pretty much the same, although this being the "glorious "Land 'O Thais", I wouldn't hold my breath..

To the best of my knowledge; about a year or so ago, if a student wanted to continue studying thai language at a private language school they could do an "in-house" test which the school made up and gave them. This was then sent to the MOE along with the schools paperwork to secure an "invitation" letter to continue receiving extensions for another year without leaving the country. That changed, and now students who are continuing on for a second year of thai language studies must go to the MOE and be 'interviewed/tested" to continue receiving extensions AFTER their first year runs out. This was confirmed by two thai language schools when I spoke to them yesterday.

This has not been the experience at our school. Not once has MOE requested student to be tested when entering the second year. Nor have we ever experienced a student being requested to go to MOE for any reason whatsoever.

While I am not disputing your statement, the first couple questions I'd ask are;

*Do you teach thai or another language?

*Have you ever had a student study thai continually for longer than a year?

I also find it strange you say "our school"; yet in perusing a few of your previous posts I could see nothing mentioned about it.

Enquiring minds may wish to know the name of the school, and/or its location for future reference. Then again because this topic is about ED visas and alleged testing at Changwattana, perhaps this isn't the place to post it.

Being curious, as I am, a P/M would certainly quench my curiosity (thanx in advance)

[Falcon]

Hi,

I went for my 90 days extention and 90 days reporting in Cheng Wattana today and while doing so I spoke with the lady at the immigration counter regarding the testing and what it was all about. I am on an Non-ED visa and study at Walen school. I speak Thai well but go to the school to (or thought I would go to the school in order to) learn to read and write in order for me to help my Son with his homework instead of my usual "wait til your Mam gets home" - my Son is almost 5 years old, speaks Fluent Thai and almost fluent English but chooses to speak Thai most of the time unless i dont know a word then he'll tell me in english. I have been in Thailand for almost 15 years.

Anyway, when speaking with the immigration officer (in Thai) she said they only did the testing for a couple of weeks due to something that cropped up over them simply being civil to people and asking them, in Thai, how their courses are going learning thai. They found that a lot of people couldnt reply to their comments so were interested in looking into just how many people were able to communicate in Thai and how many werent and also for those that werent (the majority) why? This was the reason behind the testing. She saw that my paperwork was from Walen and she said that she and a lot of the other officers were sick of trying to speak to Walen students as they couldnt communicate anything than say that your pen/book is on the table, etc!! She said all they asked them were simple questions but most people from the school couldnt answer even an easy question like are you married? how many times a week do you go to school? How do you travel to school? How old are you? etc.

She also said that they have compiled or are compiling a report to send to the Ministry of Education to notify them of the seemingly lack of actual learning being done by people on ED visa's from all schools, not just walen, no school was singled out and the only reason she mentioned the students from Walen school is because of my own paperwork being from there.

This is not a "hit" on Walen school or any others, just giving the dialog of what went on there today. IF I was to say anything about Walens method/book, etc. then the post I have just made would be deleted by the mods and my intention was only to try to stop people from worrying about any test when going for their extentions.

Falcon

Edited January 5, 2010 by Falcon

[astral]

Catch 22??

If your Thai is poor then you aren't learning and your visa is denied.

If your Thai is good you don't need classes any more, your visa is denied.

[humbug]

First off; I don't know a single student who is studying thai at a private language school yet has gotten a 12 month extension which requires only reporting every 90 days. Macwalen had a few students early on enrolled at his Pattaya branch who did get 12 month extensions. It appeared to be more of a fluke due to immigrations being unfamiliar with the paperwork process. I believe he hasn't had a student get another one in quite a long time.

I know people who received their ED visas from the EU, UK, or US and have a year long multi-entry ED visas but that type requires a border run every 90 days. The difference is almost moot, (except for the cost of the visa in those countries) as a border run from BKK cost about 2000baht with any of the visa-run companies, and another 90 day extension costs 1900baht at Changwattana.

In your post it mentions that those on 12 month extensions are subjected to a moe test for their next 12 month extension, so would that be the same for those on 90 day extensions to be subjected to a moe test after 4 extensions?

Sorry I wasn't clear about that;

People who do 'in-country' extensions on ED visas for study in a private thai language school get a years worth of extensions (4-90 day extensions), although sometimes the way they count days makes your last extension less than 90 days. AFTER that, IF they still want to study thai, don't want to leave thailand to secure another ED visa at a neighboring countries Thai consulate or embassy, and are enrolled in the school for another year, you will go to MOE and be 'interviewed' to assess your thai language skill.

Obviously the fact you've studied thai at least the MOE minimum of 180 hours in the last year comes into play to some degree. They do expect you to carry on at least a rudimentary conversation in thai.

Most private thai language schools have a special prep class to help groups of students who are continuing their education for another year. Then they coordinate with the students to go out to the MOE building and get your thru the interview process.

While I am not on an ED visa, from what I have heard from students continuing their thai language studies for a second year it is NOT that difficult of a test. They primarily interested in seeing if you're actually studying thai.

Again this is only for students who are continuing the 90 day in-country extension process for their thai language studies for another year AFTER their first year, without getting a new ED visa.

BACK ON TOPIC: I know some students who need their 90 day extensions this week and will be going to Changwattana. Hopefully I'll have more concrete info about the 'alleged testing' for ED visas extensions…

thanks for your reply, it certainly answered my question

[tutor4u]

First off; I don't know a single student who is studying thai at a private language school yet has gotten a 12 month extension which requires only reporting every 90 days. ...

BACK ON TOPIC: I know some students who need their 90 day extensions this week and will be going to Changwattana. Hopefully I'll have more concrete info about the 'alleged testing' for ED visas extensions…

thanks for your reply, it certainly answered my question

I was originally assuming that the reports of 'testing' was simply due to relative newbies to Thailand just misunderstanding the Thai officials, who were probably just being chatty and thinking that most farang would want to chit-chat in Thai (if learning Thai) the way that most Thais want to try their English language skills while in the company of farangs (if learning English). Now, however, I'm not so sure and find it all a bit confusing.

I sure miss my Non-Imm 'B' and work permit! I'm one those fellas who has just recently completed a long contract in Thailand (6 years at my last international school) but has found himself currently between work permits/jobs and really would like a better way to remain legally in Thailand ("longishly") while seeking another GOOD employment contract. The employment market is not great right now. Since I've always wanted to learn Thai, the Non-Imm ED Visa seemed to be the best option but I really am starting to wonder.

I actually don't mind being tested, but as an educator, I don't want some untrained immigration officer doing random tests with the power to revoke or not extend my visa. This all just seems very unprofessional and a bit troubling. This, and I was buying into all the hype in the ads about an actual 'one year extension of stay'... as it is with the Non B and work permit. According to what I'm now reading here, you MUST apply for an extension every 90 days (not just report your address). This certainly wouldn't be my first choice (if I had a better option..i.e. actual 1 year extention of stay) but as long as I could extend the ED Visa in-country every 90 days, I guess that it would still prove to be a good option - if they don't go and get all anal with the extensions.

Hopefully there will be some more factual reports in the next week or so, as I'm currently back in States and trying to decide which visa to apply for.

[kd2]

I posted this in the other "CRACKDOWN!!!!" thread:

I did my extension @ Chaeng Wattana on Monday. Got there about 11. Not that many people at the booth. The officer called my number in Thai, I repeated it in Thai when handing her my passport. Sat down. She sorted through my documents and gave me my number. Waited outside for about 30 minutes and then got my passport back. The officer handing me my passport pointed out that my 90 day address check was also due to be done that day. Did that in about 10 minutes. All done! I was there for about an hour and it was pretty painless, and my previous extension three months ago went about the same way.

There weren't that many people at the extension cubicle, and I'm not sure how many of those were student visas, but I didn't see anyone beeing interviewed.

K.

[Mario2008]

1 off topic post discussing language schools deleted. This tropic is about immigration and possible testing.

[johndpoole]

This is good news...should help to weed out many of the scammers who are using the Ed visa as a means to live in Thailand and not actually studying Thai or some other subject at an approved educational institution.

And these scammers effect you how? And how exactly will it have anything to do with if a person goes to an approved school? The school has to be approved regardless if they test you on what you learn and there are plenty of approved schools that don't care if you attend.

[YanTree]

Just got second extension in Bangkok. No testing. Spoke to me in English the whole time even though I kept answering in Thai.

[eek]

Just thought id pass on my experience at imm the other day. I went to get my 1 year ed visa extended for 1 year. Its not for a Thai Language course, but I think the officers maybe make that presumption, as I seemed to be getting tested on my Thai lang ability The first officer spoke to me in Thai. The second officer asked me if i can speak Thai, in Thai. I replied in Thai, also during our conversation (in Thai) i pointed out that my course is not for a Thai Language course. He then re-read it and laughed and we had a short conversation as to why i can then speak Thai (not that i speak well though!). It also crossed my mind that many people who go for the Ed visa based on Thai lang may not have yet learned any Thai, so why conduct an interview in Thai on a first ed visa im not sure. ANyway, this may be the norm, i have no idea..just thought id pass it on. I think the officers may presume ed visa = based on a language course (even though it says on the paperwork what the course is)..until pointed out otherwise. Sry if this info is as useful as a chocolate teapot!