How Busy This High Season?

[tropo]

Mr Tropo

A real tourist in a sex town, is a sex tourist.

You should get your facts right.

Have a nice day.

For sure you're the banned Plasticpig coming back for another shot.

[Tolley]

Well Pattya certainly looked busy over the high season and if you compare it to 2008/09 high season it was signifcantly busier.

Whether this means the rest of the year will be good remains to be seen.

As the GFC unwinds i would expect Pattaya to pick up and return to higher levels of business.

The advent of new shopping centres like Central means that Pattaya will attract more Thais and more families and that is probably all for the better.

The mongers are still around although not as many as in past years and as another poster has mentioned a lot of the hard core mongers have gravitated to the Soi Bukeow area.

[sharecropper]

I can and I do, up until about 2 weeks ago.

Yes, I know you can. I'm saying it is not true. There is no way it is quieter than last year.

There is no way it is quieter than last year.

Do you ever bother to read posts correctly before you hit the keyboard?

Thought not.

[tropo]

I can and I do, up until about 2 weeks ago.

Yes, I know you can. I'm saying it is not true. There is no way it is quieter than last year.

There is no way it is quieter than last year.

Do you ever bother to read posts correctly before you hit the keyboard?

Thought not.

It was a pretty clumsy statement you made, but I did read it.

Let me translate my statement to make it clearer for you: "you can say whatever you like but that doesn't make it true".

IMO at no time this high season (even before 2 weeks ago) was it quieter than last high season.

[sharecropper]

I can and I do, up until about 2 weeks ago.

Yes, I know you can. I'm saying it is not true. There is no way it is quieter than last year.

There is no way it is quieter than last year.

Do you ever bother to read posts correctly before you hit the keyboard?

Thought not.

It was a pretty clumsy statement you made, but I did read it.

Let me translate my statement to make it clearer for you: "you can say whatever you like but that doesn't make it true".

IMO at no time this high season (even before 2 weeks ago) was it quieter than last high season.

At the risk of cutting off this imbecilic prattle, based on you trying to argue with my own empirical observations by asserting your own, I don't really give a toss what you think.

But thanks.

[tropo]

At the risk of cutting off this imbecilic prattle, based on you trying to argue with my own empirical observations by asserting your own, I don't really give a toss what you think.

But thanks.

You obviously do care what I think or you wouldn't be replying with such vigor.

Let's take a risk and cut off this prattle.

Edited January 19, 2010 by tropo

[NanLaew]

Whew! Glad that little tirade is over.

When people stop quoting what they witnessed on their once-a-month dander down WS as the empirical evidence of either boom or bust in Pattaya, then I will pay attention.

TAT has all the answers anyway so whyfor all this gum beating?

[rayong09]

tropo, your better then that arguing the toss with simpletons.

[Tejas]

tropo, your better then that arguing the toss with simpletons.

With the exception of Tropo, I don't know another person in Thailand that thinks this high season is higher than last year.

The last three months have been a disaster for many businesses. This after an even worse six months.

I think if you want to get a good idea of what is happening, just ask the shop owners.

You may see a lot of people walking around, but if the are not spending how does that impact business?

10-15 years ago there was a "balance" between the number of shops and tourists/long stay expats. That balance was good for the local economy.

That balance is now gone. People who have only been here five years know nothing about it.

Because of that, they will say it isn't important.

Well, it is important. It represents a significant and negative economic change.

[sharecropper]

I think significantly more money is being spent in Pattaya now than ever before, just spread around differently, and through the wider economy - in terms of retail shopping - with the Russians supporting Central Mall in particular.

The main sufferers will be bars and go gos as the mongers are replaced by Russian families, along with independent smaller hotels, restaurants and businesses (the posher hotels still get the "all inclusive" rate from their guests who dine there)

Who is replacing the caucasian sexpats and sex-seekers and their lost Baht infusion on Walking Street? Hordes of cheap Indians and Arabs, who frequent the 7:11s and gang-hit on freelancers. They are not repalcing the lost spend in go go bars and beer bars.

Edited January 19, 2010 by sharecropper

[moo9]

I think significantly more money is being spent in Pattaya now than ever before, just spread around differently, and through the wider economy - in terms of retail shopping - with the Russians supporting Central Mall in particular.

The main sufferers will be bars and go gos as the mongers are replaced by Russian families, along with independent smaller hotels, restaurants and businesses (the posher hotels still get the "all inclusive" rate from their guests who dine there)

Who is replacing the caucasian sexpats and sex-seekers and their lost Baht infusion on Walking Street? Hordes of cheap Indians and Arabs, who frequent the 7:11s and gang-hit on freelancers. They are not repalcing the lost spend in go go bars and beer bars.

If the trend continues, Pattaya will fail and it's on the best way now.

You seriously think, that a few Russsians who really spend some money can save Central Pattaya? No way.

We will be ending up with Russians package tourists, Indians and Arabs of middle income, but that will not be enough.

The high season soon is over and I think it was the worst for the last 10 yrs or so. I met nobody who mentioned that business is great, most of the non western torurists are staying in the big hotel chains on their package tours and this is bad for small individually operated companies (guesthouse, small hotels, restaurants etc.).

It is after all a sad development. The politicians deny the heritage of Pattaya and want to turn it by 180 degree to become the Monte Carlo of the Eastern Seaboard. Good luck, hopefully it will fail.

[Firestarter]

I think significantly more money is being spent in Pattaya now than ever before, just spread around differently, and through the wider economy - in terms of retail shopping - with the Russians supporting Central Mall in particular.

The main sufferers will be bars and go gos as the mongers are replaced by Russian families, along with independent smaller hotels, restaurants and businesses (the posher hotels still get the "all inclusive" rate from their guests who dine there)

Who is replacing the caucasian sexpats and sex-seekers and their lost Baht infusion on Walking Street? Hordes of cheap Indians and Arabs, who frequent the 7:11s and gang-hit on freelancers. They are not repalcing the lost spend in go go bars and beer bars.

If the trend continues, Pattaya will fail and it's on the best way now.

You seriously think, that a few Russsians who really spend some money can save Central Pattaya? No way.

We will be ending up with Russians package tourists, Indians and Arabs of middle income, but that will not be enough.

The high season soon is over and I think it was the worst for the last 10 yrs or so. I met nobody who mentioned that business is great, most of the non western torurists are staying in the big hotel chains on their package tours and this is bad for small individually operated companies (guesthouse, small hotels, restaurants etc.).

It is after all a sad development. The politicians deny the heritage of Pattaya and want to turn it by 180 degree to become the Monte Carlo of the Eastern Seaboard. Good luck, hopefully it will fail.

All true

Think the Russians will turn into a very bad version of the brits in a few years time.

When the young single guys start coming in droves.

Also remember that most or about 95% all the people that post on the pattaya Forum are business owners or the there wife's are .

And the ones who shout the loudest on Thai visa. Must be having a hardest time or they would not be so angry and rude to other members, who don't agree with them.

So, in a nutshell believe about as much as you can take. Without pissing yourself laughing.

Have a nice day.

BTW i would say 80% of bar owners i know, in the last 10 years are now back in the country they come from, or gone up country, very few

what does that say about pattaya

Did an edit , was a bit unfair to a few good people and there business, there are a few, but not many

Edited January 20, 2010 by Firestarter

[tropo]

With the exception of Tropo, I don't know another person in Thailand that thinks this high season is higher than last year.

If you had taken the time to read through this thread you would have found some other posters with the same view.

The fact that shops are not doing well doesn't tell you much about how many tourists are in town. In case you hadn't noticed, a brand new 7 level shopping centre has just been added to the mix. This immediately had a huge impact on all shops at Royal Garden Plaza, Big C on 2nd Road, The Avenue and many other small businesses in the area. The impact continues.

There are too many of every type of business in Pattaya - too many bars, too many shops, too many restaurants, too many guest houses and hotels etc etc. This is what makes Pattaya so unique - that business actually stay open despite dismal trade. People just love to live in Pattaya. The fact that Pattaya is oversupplied by every type of business doesn't tell us about the overall financial health of the town. Double the trade, triple the trade...some people will still be complaining.

What happened 15 years ago here is totally irrelevant to what is happening now. It's a new day, a new town. It's only going to get better.

Every year these "Pattaya is doomed" threads crop up. If the tourist trade started booming...I mean REALLY booming, they'd be more complaints because prices would go through the roof - then Pattaya would once again expand as new business open up to profit from the boom and we'd still end up with an oversupply in the end. It's always going to be this way in Pattaya. Where else in the world do you find 24/7 convenience stores on every corner?

Pattaya has a good balance of oversupply which keeps it popular by keeping it price competitive.

For those doom and gloomers, come back here in 5 years so I can tell you "I told you so".

[jb4446]

With the exception of Tropo, I don't know another person in Thailand that thinks this high season is higher than last year.

If you had taken the time to read through this thread you would have found some other posters with the same view.

The fact that shops are not doing well doesn't tell you much about how many tourists are in town. In case you hadn't noticed, a brand new 7 level shopping centre has just been added to the mix. This immediately had a huge impact on all shops at Royal Garden Plaza, Big C on 2nd Road, The Avenue and many other small businesses in the area. The impact continues.

There are too many of every type of business in Pattaya - too many bars, too many shops, too many restaurants, too many guest houses and hotels etc etc. This is what makes Pattaya so unique - that business actually stay open despite dismal trade. People just love to live in Pattaya. The fact that Pattaya is oversupplied by every type of business doesn't tell us about the overall financial health of the town. Double the trade, triple the trade...some people will still be complaining.

What happened 15 years ago here is totally irrelevant to what is happening now. It's a new day, a new town. It's only going to get better.

Every year these "Pattaya is doomed" threads crop up. If the tourist trade started booming...I mean REALLY booming, they'd be more complaints because prices would go through the roof - then Pattaya would once again expand as new business open up to profit from the boom and we'd still end up with an oversupply in the end. It's always going to be this way in Pattaya. Where else in the world do you find 24/7 convenience stores on every corner?

Pattaya has a good balance of oversupply which keeps it popular by keeping it price competitive.

For those doom and gloomers, come back here in 5 years so I can tell you "I told you so".

Perhaps some of this is true,but it is the "type "of person who is now coming here in droves.The Russians traditionally will not spend the equivelent amount of money a westerner will,look at Goa,now a Russian takeover there,a bottle of vodka or two,a few loaves of bread then on the beach all day occupying a shackholders sunbeds,no trade for the owner,the place is ruined,same in the evening,local cheap restaurants filled with Russians drinking their own bottles brought into the restaurant.The Indian same-same,looks aghast at what he sees,will not join in the spending arena,just huddle together in their own commune/hotel and the Thais know it that is why they do not want the Indians here,and on a personal level nor do I,having had masses of dealings with them over the years.

I just hope Pattaya keeps its image,but its hard to see it happening.

[SantiSuk]

It made a refreshing change to sit amongst a pleasant atmosphere with Western couples and a few Thai's alike. Rather then the usual Chang vest wearing slobs that frequent the bars during the low season like cockroaches to a sewer pipe.

What's wrong with my Chang vest?

Here here. I'm sick of people denigrating Singha and Chang vests.

I am pretty well off financially, reasonably well-bred, never stupid drunk and yet I wear vests on occasions when the weather is hot. Part of the joy of being in Thailand is to feel free to do what you like. We can do with less of the style-police like Kasabian!!

[Tejas]

I think significantly more money is being spent in Pattaya now than ever before, just spread around differently, and through the wider economy - in terms of retail shopping - with the Russians supporting Central Mall in particular.

The main sufferers will be bars and go gos as the mongers are replaced by Russian families, along with independent smaller hotels, restaurants and businesses (the posher hotels still get the "all inclusive" rate from their guests who dine there)

Who is replacing the caucasian sexpats and sex-seekers and their lost Baht infusion on Walking Street? Hordes of cheap Indians and Arabs, who frequent the 7:11s and gang-hit on freelancers. They are not repalcing the lost spend in go go bars and beer bars.

You may be right about more money being spent now than ever before. But that is simply because there are more people and businesses.

My earlier point, which seems to have escaped Tropo who sees no reason to compare the past to the present (odd because that is how progress is determined), is that in the past there was more of a balance between people/spending and businesses.

That resulted in more people being happy with the situation, and probably far less crime and stress.

Another way of saying this is that the "economic pie" was being distributed more fairly.

Now the place has overdeveloped......too many businesses and not enough customers/spending. That makes life difficult for a lot of people and no doubt is pushing crime up along with stress levels.

In the end Pattaya-Jomtien suffers. Thais suffer. And expats suffer because they will never again see the good times when it was a very relaxing, inexpensive, fun, carefree place to be.

The real estate developers, of course, hate it when any person points out the reality of the place.

[JMS]

A week ago I had a beer with a GM of a hotel in pattaya and he stated that a number of high end hotels are running at 30-40%. Even last year they had a lot more people there. Also the russians have deserted the Royal Cliff who relied on this market. A lot of people go on about tourists not being here which I agree to some degree but people forget there is a big expat market out there and a lot of well off offshore workers who spend a lot of money here so I doubt pattaya will go to the wall but this year we will see some bars closing

[gharknes]

i think the few weeks over chrstmas it is impossible to gauge how busy it has been, really depends on where you go - what time etc, what i do know is ..... high season is over, from the start of this week there has been a sharp decline everywhere, very noticeable, if you have a business here that relies on tourism don't expect to get busy any time soon.

As for traffic congestion- I've said it many many times on here............there are far too many baht buses and if anything they are growing in numbers.

cambodia is getting popular, cheaper than here, you can own your own - land - property and buisness 100%, get a work permit if you desire one.

what is killing Pattaya is greedy thais charging huge rent/lease to falangs for buisnesses that can't support it, also there is something wrong when the price of a beer ranges from 35baht to 160baht - that is just wrong, give it 10 years and cambodia will be the place to go/live and thailand will be left wondering what happened. they also need to seriously consider baht devaluation.

[sharecropper]

i think the few weeks over chrstmas it is impossible to gauge how busy it has been, really depends on where you go - what time etc, what i do know is ..... high season is over, from the start of this week there has been a sharp decline everywhere, very noticeable, if you have a business here that relies on tourism don't expect to get busy any time soon.

As for traffic congestion- I've said it many many times on here............there are far too many baht buses and if anything they are growing in numbers.

cambodia is getting popular, cheaper than here, you can own your own - land - property and buisness 100%, get a work permit if you desire one.

what is killing Pattaya is greedy thais charging huge rent/lease to falangs for buisnesses that can't support it, also there is something wrong when the price of a beer ranges from 35baht to 160baht - that is just wrong, give it 10 years and cambodia will be the place to go/live and thailand will be left wondering what happened. they also need to seriously consider baht devaluation.

what is killing Pattaya is greedy thais charging huge rent/lease to falangs for buisnesses that can't support it,

This is an interesting point.

What will happen when the go go leases on Walking Street come up for rent review I wonder, because Thai owners are looking at what MIGHT be an income for a business, from all those Russians they see, not what the real income is from the vastly fewer bums (no offence intended) on seats in there.

I think a rent increase of 20% (which is at the lower end of rent rises here) for many bars would be a major problem for owners.

Any bar owners care to comment?

[Tolley]

I don't really understand people who keep harping back to how Pattaya used to be in some sort of 'golden age'.

All things change and evolve and Pattaya is no exception.

Pattaya has far more facilities and better infrastructure than it used to have.

It also has more traffic and more pollution and is generally more densely populated.

Generally it is hard to have one without the other.

Sure as others have mentioned there are too many of just about everything in Pattaya but I have little concern about which small businesses will survive and which ones wont.

One thing is for sure Pattaya will still be around for a long time to come and as has been the case in the past some businesses will come and others go but the party will continue on.