German Tourist Killed By Hit-and-run Driver In Pattaya

[jlaaway]

Whenever walking, or riding a motor bike, I always pretend I am invisable. That way, I can depend on not being seen. As such, I never assume a car will stop for me while walking across the street. When riding a bike, I just assume that a car will cut me off and be ready for it.

[neverdie]

Whenever walking, or riding a motor bike, I always pretend I am invisable. That way, I can depend on not being seen. As such, I never assume a car will stop for me while walking across the street. When riding a bike, I just assume that a car will cut me off and be ready for it.

Yes, GOOD Idea. Its actually a good idea to head out with the thought that EVERYBODY is trying to kill you. You have to act defensively everytime.

[portpower]

Yesterday in Bangkok I twice used a zebra crossing; one of the newer ones with traffic lights. When the lights changed some of the traffic did not even bother to stop, in fact one black Vios increased its speed past an already dangerous velocity to beat me attempting to cross the road, and in doing so almost hit me.

Every time I use these crossings I am extra careful as Thai drivers have little or no regard for the pedestrian.

I would go as far as a little regard for life in many cases.....

[portpower]

Whenever walking, or riding a motor bike, I always pretend I am invisable. That way, I can depend on not being seen. As such, I never assume a car will stop for me while walking across the street. When riding a bike, I just assume that a car will cut me off and be ready for it.

Yes, GOOD Idea. Its actually a good idea to head out with the thought that EVERYBODY is trying to kill you. You have to act defensively everytime.

Yes and another good idea is when you hear a fireworks or a car backfire .Always assume its a Gun and keep low......... Merry Xmas..

[portpower]

I live close to a Thai high school, every morning hundreds of kids arrive on motorbikes.

Most don't wear helmets.

Few would be old enough to have the appropriate licence.

Often there are 3 or 4 kids on one bike.

All seem to have no regard for road rules.

All seem to be oblivious to any danger.

This all takes place in front of police, teachers, parents and community leaders.

And these kids are the next generation of car drivers!

NEXT GENERATION THATS IF THEY MAKE IT ???......Remember look mum no hands .look mum no teeth...

[caf]

Whenever walking, or riding a motor bike, I always pretend I am invisable. That way, I can depend on not being seen. As such, I never assume a car will stop for me while walking across the street. When riding a bike, I just assume that a car will cut me off and be ready for it.

Yes, GOOD Idea. Its actually a good idea to head out with the thought that EVERYBODY is trying to kill you. You have to act defensively everytime.

Seconded. Unfortunately few Thais drive defensively because they were not taught that way.

[Rainmon]

In my experience Thai drivers have no respect what so ever of anything on the road. Ive seen drivers purposely aim for dogs, drive carelessly close to the bumper of the car in front, try to ram other cars out the way. I consider myself a good careful driver, but when driving here in Thailand my nerves and wits are tested to the fullest! I guess they all think there invulnerable and good old Buddha will take care of them because they got that special amulet given to them by the monk who said if you wear this you can never die!

could easily be a Farlang driver, last year in Pattaya I saw a Farlang pickup truck driver hit 2-3 cars and 5 or 6 motor bikes speeding down 3rd road on the wrong side of the street near the intersection of South Pattaya road in front of Tonys Resort Spa, he would have kept going but the engine was damaged and the tires went flat. There were 3 guys in the pickup truck and would not get out for about 30 minutes while the police and everyone was standing there waiting, finally the radiator burst and the vehicle caught fire they busted out the rear window and jumped out, all 3 totally drunk (the doors were smashed in and would not open). Fortunately no one died, later I heard they got off with a fine, not sure how much...

Wow , must have been up all night dreaming that concoction up , all that damage to the pick-up , then the rad burst and it caught fire , did anybody call the fire chief ?

Dude this was no dream (more like a nightmare). My friend and I saw the whole thing and we were part of the group standing there waiting for these drunk farlangs to get out of the truck, what is your point?

Edited December 23, 2009 by Rainmon

[Project504naha]

Good idea.....infact what they could do it to move the BIB to locations nearer the crossings......killing (excuse the pun) two birdies with one stone..........Once word gets around...cars will certainly be more cautious. Until then, Zebra crossings mean absolutely nothing here in Bangkok.

[MeatMan]

Yes Condolences to the Family, always sad to needlessly lose a life.

Recently I've needed to drive more in Pattaya, it's a terrible the traffic Police the motorcycles then the Expats and Tourists. Just yesterday near Carrefour an old Farang literally ran in front of my vehicle to cros the road when the traffic was moving!!!, If I didn't lock up my breaks he would have been hit, then he screams profanity at me. Every time I drive in Pattayaa the worst motorcycle drivers ar the Farangs driving what htey think is the Thai Way, they they scream and swear at you when they caused a near miss.

I feel bad for the person that was killed.

Maybe for the sake of others Farangs should use the common sense that they scream about but don't follow.

[BlackJack]

[...]

Today I had a bike with a male driver a woman on the back and a kid sandwiched between them, cut me off then proceeded to weave in and out to get around the baht bus. 5 times he nearly hit my car. Then finally the woman driver started absusing me for endangering them. Go figure.

Car bigger than bike ........ mmmm

car hits bike ..... mmmm

bike falls over ..... mmmm

car does not fall over .... mmmm

people on bike get hurt .... mmmm

people in car do not get hurt ..... oh

but here car pays for stupid bike driver and damage ..... go figure

I have the opposite experience - very often cars drive without any regard to bikes, squeezing them, blocking them, the mentality seems to be "if I have to be stuck in traffic in my car the dam_n bikes have to be stuck too!". If you had given him half a meter he could safely have negotiated past you and have been out of your hair in a few seconds.

read again weave in and out

5 times he nearly hit me

[jontom]

my condolences to this man's family. "

Wow that's a very strong point you have made & I have some sympathy with it ; 8 years ago to this week when I married my Thai wife in the UK ..the only other farang husband present interjected my speech because at the wedding I praised the beauty and friendliness of Thailand etc., - I can't recall his comments now perhaps it was about corruption etc., But with solid experience you do really begin to see some serious weaknesses in their culture .

I think the one that struck in my visit last summer down in the Hua Hin area ...was Thais do not read. Further from Hau Hin along the posh coast near Banbury there were scores of Farang reading, books, papers or laptops along the beeches and hotel pools. It struck me you never see a Thai reading - they sit on their bums eating, gossiping and watching but never reading. They are fundamentally a semi-peasant society.

Most of the Thai girls back here in UK come for economic reasons - their plan is to amass wealth and send some of it back, they are jealous of one another, they gossip about one another ...rarely do they have true friendships. My wife and a local thai woman fell out over the fact that my wife could n't help this woman with some cooking Thai meals one day ; they have stopped talking to each other since their tiff. Separations and marital strife are very high here as its impossible to argue logically and calmly and I would say to any farang taking a Thai woman ... do not marry here! live with here yes BUT do not marry her ; keep your power because that lovey sweet smiling politeness is a Thai front- inevitably stuck in a semi suburban house in an expensive country like UK they will get painfully restless ; they will urge you to go back to Thailand after a few years and you will sink in your social position by buying some peasant place but you will have a 4 * 4 . If you must buy buy in a farang area.

The driving problem in Thailand is a symbol of its fundamental cultural problem - a lack of logic and reason and foresight.

One of my Thai, high society, corporate, adult students that I was teaching this morning had written an essay about how polite and friendly Thai people are. I questioned this in connection with this thread and the class all retracted this opinions and instead became rather quiet in an almost embarassed "I've been caught out way."

Perhaps they realise that they are polite and friendly when they have nowhere to hide but, encase them in steel with an opportunity not to be seen too much and more importantly with the opportunity to run (drive away) and the true nature of the beast emerges.

Actions speak louder than words, if I want to judge people I always try to judge them by their actions, this is very revealing when watching Thai drivers behind the wheel.

[dumball]

'Rainmon' date='2009-12-23 10:50:59' post='3220799''dumball' post='3219894' date='2009-12-22 20:30:01']'Rainmon' post='3218942' date='2009-12-22 12:30:22']'Viper' post='3218830' date='2009-12-22 11:50:40']In my experience Thai drivers have no respect what so ever of anything on the road. Ive seen drivers purposely aim for dogs, drive carelessly close to the bumper of the car in front, try to ram other cars out the way. I consider myself a good careful driver, but when driving here in Thailand my nerves and wits are tested to the fullest! I guess they all think there invulnerable and good old Buddha will take care of them because they got that special amulet given to them by the monk who said if you wear this you can never die![

could easily be a Farlang driver, last year in Pattaya I saw a Farlang pickup truck driver hit 2-3 cars and 5 or 6 motor bikes speeding down 3rd road on the wrong side of the street near the intersection of South Pattaya road in front of Tonys Resort Spa, he would have kept going but the engine was damaged and the tires went flat. There were 3 guys in the pickup truck and would not get out for about 30 minutes while the police and everyone was standing there waiting, finally the radiator burst and the vehicle caught fire they busted out the rear window and jumped out, all 3 totally drunk (the doors were smashed in and would not open). Fortunately no one died, later I heard they got off with a fine, not sure how much...

Wow , must have been up all night dreaming that concoction up , all that damage to the pick-up , then the rad burst and it caught fire , did anybody call the fire chief ?

Dude this was no dream (more like a nightmare). My friend and I saw the whole thing and we were part of the group standing there waiting for these drunk farlangs to get out of the truck, what is your point?

Sorry dude , do you not get a case of irony when you read it ? It is a quirk of the English language , that dependant on how you read something , can change the contents intent .

[toptuan]

I think those 'Zebra' crossings are merely ornamental.

Perhaps Thai drivers think they only have to stop if a zebra enters them...

[Maigo6]

So, ThaiVisa members have no doubt that it had to be a Thai person at the wheel ?

The vast majority of farangs I know who drink and have a car or a motorcycle drink and drive.

Many here are so racist, no wonder you think all Thai people are out to get you !

When I saw that a Farang had been hit by a speeding pick up in that area, my first thought was " <deleted>, I hope that wasn't ----- that hit that poor guy "

It was a Farang I know who had been drinking in the same bar as me and when he left he could hardly walk, he got into his Isuzu pick up truck and sped off down the road.

Yes yes, I know, ThaiVisa members don't drink and drive nor do they associate with anybody that does......

Any chance you guys get to hammer the whole Thai population, you certainly take it, all except your own personal Thai, she or he is different, no ?

To all of you that drink and drive , would you have stopped and faced the consequences ?

Edited December 23, 2009 by Maigo6

[neverdie]

Maigo, real men don't drink and drive or eat quiche.

I don't drink period, so my answer to your question is, if I ran someone down effectively murdering them with my motor vehicle, despite the horrendous situation I was about to face, yes I would stand up, be a man and face the music. I guess not having alcohol to cloud my judgement would make all the difference.

[Maigo6]

Maigo, real men don't drink and drive

So the driver of this pick up was a cardboard cut out ?

I repeat again, the vast majority of Farangs I know who drink and have a car or a motorcycle drink and drive.

I like the way Thai people are being slammed by so many here, when it could quite easily have been a pissed up Farang driving the pick up.

Pissed up Farangs are common in Pattaya, walking and driving.

[neverdie]

^I understand you point m6, you really should get some more 'decent' friends, not gutless individuals that drive around endangering others.....THEY are NOT REAL MEN, u see? It could of been a child this gutless individual ran over, it could of been a pregnant woman or a grandmother, who gives a toss what breed the grub is, he ran someone down in cold blood (was most likely intoxicated) and fled the scene - GUTLESS!

If your big enuf to get behind the wheel after drinking, then you should be man enuf to stand up and face the music when u fark up, irregardless of your breed OR lack there of.

[moe666]

Neverdie, why is a child or pregnant woman more important than someone else dead is dead no matter who you are. Real men drive drunk as well just one of those things in life. Seventy five percent of all traffic accidents in the US are alcohol or other drug related including prescription drugs.

In the good old days when there were no cars drunks more than likely got run over by wagons. Demonizing some one for a lapse in judgement doesn't solve the problem or bring back the dead, no matter who they are

[davidmmurin]

My stepdaughter 16 and friend were hit on on their Yamaha Mio on the way to the store in Khon Khaen Sunday afternoon. She hasn't moved or very little signs so far. She was moved to a private hospital from Government and had brain surgery for blood clot. Like to find the criminal ASAP. In the states at present wife left yesterday. I'll be there the 1st. The lousy bas---- has no balls.

[Donnyboy]

[onnut]

Rip to the German fellow, as long as it wasn't him throwing peoples pets off the roof!

I drive everyday in Bangkok, have done for 5 years and all I can say is, Thais are selfish behind the wheel. Not only that, they have no foresight and no ability to see if they can make that gap before the other car gets there. Alsomost of them don't use mirrors nor indicators. And mostly they have no idea on how to park and can be complete morons while driving.

Let's be honest here, while walking down a busy road behind Thais, they will stop or turn into you. So why would they be any better at driving?

Just my thoughts! Hope I did not offend anyone.

[tommybkk]

hit-and-run that's amazing

[diehard60]

hope they catch the ratbag

R.I.P.

They never will. He was probably a Thai. and then again maybe it was not just a hit and run. Maybe it was murder. He may have been messing with someone that he should not have een messing with.

[brahmburgers]

One of my Thai, high society, corporate, adult students that I was teaching this morning had written an essay about how polite and friendly Thai people are. I questioned this in connection with this thread and the class all retracted this opinions and instead became rather quiet in an almost embarassed "I've been caught out way."

Perhaps they realise that they are polite and friendly when they have nowhere to hide but, encase them in steel with an opportunity not to be seen too much and more importantly with the opportunity to run (drive away) and the true nature of the beast emerges. Actions speak louder than words, if I want to judge people I always try to judge them by their actions, this is very revealing when watching Thai drivers behind the wheel.

Thais are very, perhaps exceedingly polite about a host of well-defined things, most of which date back hundreds of years. However, with newer things, they don't yet (if ever) have a defined courtesy protocol. Newer things (for them), like driving a vehicle or using a phone. They'll never forget things like not walking over outstretched legs, or touching the top of someone's head. But there's nary a thought to cars running people off the street or receivers of wrong# phone calls getting immediately hung up on, with no more than a 'arai na?' High up on my list of annoying things Thai drivers do is: cut in front of me when I'm slowing for a red light.

Granted, no amount of annoyances amount to the despicable act of hit and run - particularly when it results in murder.

[Dakhar]

When I first came to Thailand there was a push by the authorities to ban dark or mirror coatings on windows, which like all things in Thailand was eventually pushed to the sidelines

May be part of the reason for posters comments about Thai driver anonymity, if you can't see them they don't feel there are any consequences

We have a co. car and the windows are tinted so black it is a struggle to see at night. I simply refuse to drive that car at night.

My car has ZERO tint and my wife continues to gripe about it, but I refuse to tint the windows. I NEED TO SEE & I don't care if I get a little "darker" from driving without tinted windows.

crazy place....

[brahmburgers]

add to ubiquitous tinted windows, the prevalence of signage and stickers and dangling things blocking windshields, and many drivers, particularly truck and bus drivers afford themselves a narrow band to peer out of. Imagine if commercial airlines had 90% of their windshields masked - well at least airline pilots are supposed to be able to fly by wire (instrumentation only) and they have control towers to communicate with.

Most truckers in Thailand, get paid by the job - As soon as they off-load one job, they can break or take another load, so speeding is advantageous. I see this in particular with fill dirt haulers - the guy who get paid to haul red dirt from hillsides - to fill in rice paddies for housing developers like Sinthani. They whizz by on so-so roads as fast as they can - to get as many loads in as possible. As far as I know: Never, in the history of Chiang Rai, has anyone ever been stopped and ticketed for speeding. Plus, speeding with heavy loads is awful for roads. It creates and exacerbates washboarding and potholes - though the noise appears to bother no one but farang.

Several months ago, one of the dirt haulers broadsided a motorbike with a dad, mom and baby. Parents were knocked around and wounded badly, baby killed.

Edited December 24, 2009 by brahmburgers

[miruph]

Summary:

Majority ThaiVisa Expat 'REAL' whinge after their 'baggage' is peeled?

'We want readily available cheap girls n grog, at all hours, with little interference'.

BUT, we also want ALL the surety, safety and assurances supplied like our 'superior' nanny state (at approx 1/5th the cost)

OR, we'll head out to the next under-developed country and continue to whinge there.

ZZZZzzzzzZzzzz....

(post not directed to the very unfortunate departed, and may his family find peace)

Seconded. One cannot have ALL.

RIP

I don't want a Nanny State but I would like the roads to be safer. I could never understand why the cops dont fine more people for traffic violations its a licence to print money. Its win win for all!!??

Don't waste your time with these "nanny state" bleating cretins. Sure they'll sound off on internet fora and in pubs about the bluddy nanny state but let something like this incident happen to THEM. Jeez, they'll be screaming to all and sundry STOP THE WORLD, GET MY LAWYER, CALL THE POLICE, WHERE'S MY EMBASSY PERSONNEL, GET THE UNITED NATIONS!

As you say it's not unreasonable to expect a level of law enforcement and for the police to act impartially but no these d*ckheads want it like Dodge City as long as it applies to others and not to them or their families.

How long shall the improvement of education and s o need to change those attitude when driving. What do you expect? It doesn't look like it'll take place within the next decade.

And no I didn't scream to all as I'd been almost dead in India and Cambo and in the moment I'm thankful for most of the things in my "Nanny State". Both has it's price.

Thanks for the cretin rude Mr. Harris.

[Phil Conners]

Thais are very, perhaps exceedingly polite about a host of well-defined things, most of which date back hundreds of years. However, with newer things, they don't yet (if ever) have a defined courtesy protocol. Newer things (for them), like driving a vehicle or using a phone. They'll never forget things like not walking over outstretched legs, or touching the top of someone's head. But there's nary a thought to cars running people off the street or receivers of wrong# phone calls getting immediately hung up on, with no more than a 'arai na?' High up on my list of annoying things Thai drivers do is: cut in front of me when I'm slowing for a red light.

Granted, no amount of annoyances amount to the despicable act of hit and run - particularly when it results in murder.

Exactly. And nothing will change until a serious campaign is launched with TV spots and all teaching them this. Just as has been necessary in the west in the past.

[ManilaLover]

How long shall the improvement of education and s o need to change those attitude when driving. What do you expect? It doesn't look like it'll take place within the next decade.

And no I didn't scream to all as I'd been almost dead in India and Cambo and in the moment I'm thankful for most of the things in my "Nanny State". Both has it's price.

Thanks for the cretin rude Mr. Harris.

Guess this is never ever gonna happen, very hard to imagine yes I know. There is kind of 'split-developments' here, technique goes forward but mentally there is a impossible-to-halt scary degereration going on here with 'lost generations'. It all starts at the basic educational system and some Thai professors have written interesting stories about this. If the people don't want to change nothing ever will change unless there is e.g. a civil war coming over. Many cultures start developping after a period of heavy suffering like a period of war. So far it seems a dead end street. It's interesting to know the statistics / percentages of different kind of Thais there are but hard to find information about it.

Edited December 25, 2009 by ManilaLover

[DickFarang]

They could spare some cops eagerly giving out no-helmet fines to motorcyclists and start enforcing pedestrian crossing awareness, but of course this will never happen.

Actually tropo in Pattaya they could just move their check point down 20 Meters or so on Pattaya Tai in front of Tukcom and they could do both

In Europe you already have to stop when there is a pedestrian on the pavement near the zebra crossing.

It suffices that a policeman imagines you did not stop completely to be fined 175 Euro.