Fill Tractor Tires With Water

[finner]

It's quite common in North America for rear tractor tires to be filled with water (plus an additive to prevent freezing) to improve stability and traction. I have asked many Thai farmers about this and they just start talking about the crazy falang, shake their heads and have a good knee slapping laugh. We have a small tractor and the gf tells me that the only driver that can operate it is the fattest one because it seems to be a little tipsy with everybody else, which made me think about this topic. Any thoughts?

Edited December 22, 2009 by finner

[gotlost]

"the fattest one because it seems to be a little tipsy with everybody else, which made me think about this topic. Any thoughts? "

It's obvious everybody has been drinking Thai Whiskey. The heavy set lad is the only sober person.

[dave_boo]

Good luck...trying to get the local yokels to accept that time has moved on and there's information out there that didn't originate in Thailand is like trying to herd cats...

[Maizefarmer]

Makes sense in certain circumstances

Main advantage/reason: unsprung added ballest i.e. addded mass = added traction - putting it into the tyres means the axles are not having to carry the extra weight and keeps the centre of gravity low, and in the case of a large tractor with duals on that added water can be as much as a couple tons.

Another reason: adjusting front/rear weight distribution - putting water in the front tyres adds ballast and helps keep the front wheels on the ground when doing draught work (pulling a big plough).

How much to put in? - not more than around 50% - 75% max by tyre volume: more than this and you will start to loose side wall flexibility in the tyre, preventing the tread from spread ing correctly and quickly destroying the tyre - but each tyre type/spec wil come with manufacturer reccomendations so take note what is said.

[catwho]

just curious .whats used to put the water in and take it out of the tyres

[lannarebirth]

just curious .whats used to put the water in and take it out of the tyres

One of these gizmos:

http://www.gemplers.com/product/AQF1/Quick...Tire-Attachment

[finner]

lannarebirth: Another way that it's done if you don't have this fitting is to just take the tire off and run over the bead with a pickup or another tractor, break the seal, fill the tire with solution (just water in this country), and pump it back up again. Never done it myself but that's what the farmers tell me.

All in all though, guess it's not commonly done here?

[xen]

Growing up on a farm we used to put water in the tractor tyres (about 25%) to make them " less bouncy " and to improve stability as the weight is always at the lowest point of the tractor. We used Tryes with tubes and just added water with a hosetaped to the valve and most of the water went imnto the trye.

From memory we only did this to the rear tyres.

[Maizefarmer]

lannarebirth: Another way that it's done if you don't have this fitting is to just take the tire off and run over the bead with a pickup or another tractor, break the seal, fill the tire with solution (just water in this country), and pump it back up again. Never done it myself but that's what the farmers tell me.

All in all though, guess it's not commonly done here?

...................??????? bloody hel_l thats complicated way of going about it - if you don't have the fitting finner describes, go about it like this:

1. jack the axle up (to take the weight off the tyre - obvious)

2. unsrew the core from the valve assembly - so the air is let out

3. estimate how much water you intend to put into the tyre at at this level along the tyre bead, insert a tyre lever.

The tyre lever will serve 2 purposes - it permitts ambient air [pressure] to bleed while water is been put into the tyre and serves as a visual guide to the water level in the tyre i.e. when the water level reaches the the height of the tyre lever it will spil out.

4. now unscrew the core out of the valve

5. connect a hose (with reducer as the hose ID is more than likely going to be much larger than the valve stem OD) to/over the hose stem (secure it with a hose clip).

6. turn on the tap ... and wait till the water reaches the tyre lever, at which point it will of course start to spill out.

7. turn water off, and pull the tyre lever out the bead/rim.

8. take the hose off valve stem and screw the core back in

9. pressurise with air - and do not exceed manufacturers pressure limit - which in many cases with water in the tyre can be given as a lower PSI/bar figure.

There is lot to the care of tractor tyres - the tyre is what puts the power to the ground and it's the air pressure in the tyre that determines how the tread "works" and transfers that power. If the pressure is to low the tyre is quickly ruined and you land up using far more fuel than is needed to any job. If the pressure is to high, again, the tyre is quickly ruined, and again, you'll land up using far more fuel than is needed to do a job. Wrong tyre pressue can add 50% to both fuel consumption and time per job in extreme cases, but even as little as 15% - 20% will soon start to impact your bottom line!!

I'll write some notes up over the Xmas weekend and binna can pin the thread at the start of the Farming in Thailand sub-section.

Tractor tyres are not cheap in Thailand, and while the Chinese are making headway into the Thai market now with one particular brand-name, my opinion of the tyre is thatit;s not worth the money spent purchasing it.

I have cut a number of them up: the side wall thickness (side wall thickness and flex is to the tyre integrity what the tread is to the tyres grip) is substantially thinner than any of the Western brand-name tyres, there is little thought given to the tread design/layout, reinforcement braiding set into the vulcanised rubber profile is dismall, and the compound used in manufacture has around half the abrasion resitance than do any of the Western brandnames.

This of course explains why Chinese tyres are so cheap, but it turns out in most cases to be a false economy - the treads wear out far earlier than a Western brnadname tyre, the sidewalls are substantially weaker and if they puncture in many cases where you could have saved the tyre through repair if it were a Western brandname, the Chinese alternative will have to be binned, and as I said in the note above, tread design is poor.

In many cases you are better off sourcing a used Western brand name tyre, if you cannjot or do not wish to invest in a new one. Nothign wrong with a used tyre, so long as it has sufficent tread and has no sidewall damage. Avoid any used tyre with a sidewall repair and less than around 25% - 30% tread, but other than for those 2 points, many used tyres can represent both a big saving over new and will last longer than many new Chinese manufactured tyres.

[paulchiangmai]

Makes sense in certain circumstances

Main advantage/reason: unsprung added ballest i.e. addded mass = added traction - putting it into the tyres means the axles are not having to carry the extra weight and keeps the centre of gravity low, and in the case of a large tractor with duals on that added water can be as much as a couple tons.

Another reason: adjusting front/rear weight distribution - putting water in the front tyres adds ballast and helps keep the front wheels on the ground when doing draught work (pulling a big plough).

How much to put in? - not more than around 50% - 75% max by tyre volume: more than this and you will start to loose side wall flexibility in the tyre, preventing the tread from spread ing correctly and quickly destroying the tyre - but each tyre type/spec wil come with manufacturer reccomendations so take note what is said.

Be aware you can not balance a tyre with water in it, putting it in your front wheels will cause problems when travelling along roads at road speed.

[paulchiangmai]

Growing up on a farm we used to put water in the tractor tyres (about 25%) to make them " less bouncy " and to improve stability as the weight is always at the lowest point of the tractor. We used Tryes with tubes and just added water with a hosetaped to the valve and most of the water went imnto the trye.

From memory we only did this to the rear tyres.

How you did this is beyond me as the air must come out of the tube as the water goes in, the special filler has a tube attached to allow the air to escape. 70% fill should be the maximum. Years ago one of my mechanics attached a hose to a large tractor tyre and then went for his tea break, the pressure in the city water system was about 80 psi, goes without saying half way into his tea break the tyre burst, take a tip from me, stand there and watch it.

[slapout]

Most of the tractor tires from large to small size 50 hp to 300 hp, that I remember utilized pressure of less than 25 psi. Maybe my memory has gone the way of my youth on this, but 18 wheeler tire pressure was normally in the range you mention. 80 psi water pressure is high by any standard but to leave this type of procedure unattended smacks of 'head in a..'

[Maizefarmer]

Old days - yes, some tyre manufacturers did make use of tube spec'd tyres, but nowadays I don't know of many general purpose type tyres designed for use with tubes ... and as for putting water into tractor tyre tubes ??????? I just can't see the sense in it. Firstthing you;d want to do is change the tyres for tubeless types, but I suppose if the tyre was spec'd for use with a tube, one didn't have much option - but you'd have to take the valve core out though to have any hope of getting enough water through the stem - else you'd be spending all day getting water into each tyre (the 2 holes in the valve core are only around an 8th" inch, if that)

Tyre balance ........... never used to be a problem as few, if any, tractors could move fast enough for the water to revolve with the tyre. It's shear mass would usualy just cause it to rumble around in the lower half of the tyre.

But some of the big Fendts , JCB's and New Holland tractors nowadays (with their fancy, but dam_n nice CVT transmissions - god, what I'd be willing to give for a big Fendt 927 or 930 or New Holland T7070 with a CVT box - dream on MF, just dream on old boy ........) are capable of 50 - 80kph (yer - a tractor capable of 50 - 80 kph! - and they're legally rated for these speeds with loads!!!, although I am sure with max loads legal and rated speeds are reduced), I guess tyre balance will at some point become in the not to far future become a real world dy to day to issue for lot of tractors. It's going to take some time for Thailand's "ever so modern" tractor fleet to catch up!

Still, it's something that has to be factored into the spec, otherwise they wouldn't get plated for those speeds.

But, setting a tractor up for road haulage/transport type work ain't the same as setting a tractor up for draught work - quite why anyone would be water ballasting for road work is beyond me.

... and fo rThailand!! - I don't know of any tractors in Thailand capable of much more than around 25 - 30 kph.

What will you get out of your typical Series 2 type 66/7610 (by far the most common workhorse sized tractor in Thailand)? - around 15 - 20kph max(?) - no more than that, so balancing for water ballast is not going to be a big issue - anyhow most 66/7610's I know have nicely worn steering hydraulics and axle king pins, so steering "wobble" exists in any case! Front tyre water ballast will just stres the steering parts out even more, spede up the wear and tear and force earlier part replacement onto the owner.

Water ballest in tyres is good for draught work on fields - and nothing else.

Edited December 23, 2009 by Maizefarmer

[xen]

How you did this is beyond me as the air must come out of the tube as the water goes in, the special filler has a tube attached to allow the air to escape. 70% fill should be the maximum. Years ago one of my mechanics attached a hose to a large tractor tyre and then went for his tea break, the pressure in the city water system was about 80 psi, goes without saying half way into his tea break the tyre burst, take a tip from me, stand there and watch it.

It was 50 years ago when we did this but i think put the tractor up on a jack , remove the valve and let the air out and then just let the water dribble into the tube with the valve removed. Water would have been from a gravity feed hose from a water tank so very little pressure. Like i said i think it was only about 25% water . Then the valve is replaced and the tube blown up again .

The other thing is that like paulchaingmai said is you can't travel at road speeds as the water in the tube eventually wears the tube out from inside.

[finner]

Just found a website regarding this topic. This article is for garden tractors but the same concept applies for the big fellas. The valve mentioned is available at all farm supply stores and I'll be picking one up next time I go back.

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/2009/01/...-kubotas-tires/

Edited December 23, 2009 by finner

[sunsamourai]

can't help with technicalities, but I remember seeing construction machines with water filled tires back in France.

[jkinbkk]

If you want to do a proper job of adding ballast to your farm vehicles you should consider PU Polymer foam fill or ballast sealants.

Both work best in tubeless tyres, but have added benefits of protecting or eliminating punctures, maintaining correct tyre pressure and eliminating heat build up/damage.

Maybe these guys can help?

http://www.pneumech.net

Edited December 28, 2009 by jkinbkk

[Maizefarmer]

If you want to do a proper job of adding ballast to your farm vehicles you should consider PU Polymer foam fill or ballast sealants.

Both work best in tubeless tyres, but have added benefits of protecting or eliminating punctures, maintaining correct tyre pressure and eliminating heat build up/damage.

Maybe these guys can help?

http://www.pneumech.net

Thats an anti-puncture product primarily, isn't it(?) - we're talking here about ballast.

Notice how the website makes reference to sealing against punctures through the tread area and the problem with tractor tyres is that it's often the sidewall that gets punctured/slashed by a piece of scrap laying in the field - and a slashed tyre is a tyre that more often than not has to be replaced - ballast or no ballast.

It works, yes, and its a good product for industrial enviroments/skidsteers ect ect ..... but I'd question it's cost/benefit in tractor tyres.

[Gary A]

In Ohio we used calcium chloride in water. It made a very good antifreeze. Unfortunately you wouldn't want to use it in tubeless tires. It would quickly eat a steel rim.

Here in Thailand that obviously wouldn't be a problem. We filled the tires until the fluid ran out of the valve stem vent tube which was positioned near the top or on top.

[finner]

Found another website with more reasons for filling the tires with water.

http://www.carverequipment.com/weight.htm

Guess I've got the answer to my original question. Nobody does it in Thailand (so far)..........

Edited December 28, 2009 by finner

[Maizefarmer]

Found another website with more reasons for filling the tires with water.

http://www.carverequipment.com/weight.htm

Guess I've got the answer to my original question. Nobody does it in Thailand (so far)..........

Er .... nope, I water ballast on a regular basis with duals on my NH 8970 ..... just that there ain't many 8970's in Thailand, or folk that use duals (2 others I know of - both belong to sugar mills)

[reallyok]

Growing up on a farm we used to put water in the tractor tyres (about 25%) to make them " less bouncy " and to improve stability as the weight is always at the lowest point of the tractor. We used Tryes with tubes and just added water with a hosetaped to the valve and most of the water went imnto the trye.

From memory we only did this to the rear tyres.

How you did this is beyond me as the air must come out of the tube as the water goes in, the special filler has a tube attached to allow the air to escape. 70% fill should be the maximum. Years ago one of my mechanics attached a hose to a large tractor tyre and then went for his tea break, the pressure in the city water system was about 80 psi, goes without saying half way into his tea break the tyre burst, take a tip from me, stand there and watch it.

Simple....................let the air out first, then put water in, replace valve and pump up !

[finner]

I'd forgotten about this old thread. Well I'm off to the farm tomorrow. We have 2 23 Hp tractors (Yanmar and Hinomoto) and I'll fill the rear tires of one of them and see what the difference is.

Edited February 8, 2010 by finner