Mugging

[KKK]

I was mugged between 2 and 3am on Tuesday morning. I had walked back with a friend to his apartment building where my motorcycle was parked. Both our backs were to the road while he was unlocking the front gate. Neither he or I have much recollection of the events except that somebody called the police and an ambulance. I was apparantly unconcious for only a few minutes but woke up some 2 hours later in Bangkok Pattaya Hospital trauma center. I was given no treatment (I had no money or ID..all stolen) until I managed to call some friends on my mobile (not stolen) and they arrived and guaranteed to settle billing on my behalf. I required 5 stiches in my skull and the bill came to just under Baht 7,000.

In almost 30 years of living in Thailand, half my life, this was the first time I had been the victim or had any close connection with anything like this.

I do not want to say that Thailand is a dangerous place and people should not come here but since this happened I have heard that muggings are on the increase. Still nowhere as much as in the west I'm sure. What I do want to say is beware. Do not turn your back to the street especially at night. Try and be aware of all that is happening around you.

What I do want to know is: how to overcome the non-treatment by the hospital. It took me nearly 4 hours to get friends to come to the hospital and rescue me. Had I been a single tourist with nobody here to help would I still be laying there some 36 hours later without treatment?! Please remember that all credit cards, ATM cards, money, etc was removed by my attackers. I was lucky to still have my phone and be able to use it.

[Michaelaway]

Mr. 3K's, that is one sad story.

I am sorry for your pain, suffering and general state of mind after such an experience. You sound like a guy who doesn't want to bother anyone, at the same time as not wanting to be bothered yourself, as you live here. Then, something like this happens. Disappointing and sad. Sad, that we so often are forced by events beyond our control to admit that the golden rule doesn't always work; some people simply don't subscribe. So, yes- let's all remember to be vigilant and careful around here.

And the other aspect- sad & disappointing, too! Maybe we should all be more careful not to confuse Thai hospital treatment (at least in Pattaya) with the type of treatment we westerners are accustomed to. Money before treatment?? What if you're on the brink... what happens then? Do they just let you fade away ("not my problem!")?

More & more, here in Pattaya, it seems that the constant quest for profit at all times, under any circumstances dominates the scene. Sadly, your example shows the hospitals have become indicators of the values of the community they serve.

I hope you feel better soon; get your wallet stuff back in order; and don't lose the optimism it sounds like you had before. Good things can happen unexpectedly, too. I hope they will for you soon. Good luck.

[Rimmer]

What a terrible experience, where were you when this happened?

[Jimmyd]

Sorry to hear about this terrible thing happening to you, and thank you for posting here. I will become more vigilant and careful.

[imaneggspurt]

No money no honey, and even worse no money no treatment, ,so a thai robs you then another trys to but the mugger beat them to it, isnt thailand wonderful..Whats that noise ? ah the thai defenders galloping over the hill !,

[raro]

really sorry to hear about your story and even more sorry (if not to say angry/upset) about the non-treatment at BPH. I witnessed a similar event there a couple of years ago, the accident victim died the next day. BPH staff refused treatment until we scrambled 10,000 Baht together.

[Jingthing]

For those who are insured, I believe they can pre-register with BPH. You could sew a compartment in your pants for a credit card. I think BPH is best avoided overall. Their reputation precedes them. That said, if the OP was taken to a more Thai hospital such as Pattaya Memorial, would he have received immediate treatment? Or would he have shamefully been denied as happened at BPH. Reading this story raises my blood pressure.

[Slaps]

Feel sorry for you mate, hope you are OK

And to hold back treatment.....well

This song comes to mind

A doctor in Manhattan

Saved a dying man for free

It's a miracle

It's a miracle, Roger Waters

[KKK]

Thanks to all for their sympathy/empathy. Excuse me if I do not reply to each of you in person. A great big hug to all of you.

Rimmer: On a sub-soi off Soi Khopai, South Pattaya. I have lived there (house) for 25 years and my friends apartment is about 5 years old. Well lit street but at 2-3am not too many people about.

I've made a few rules for a friend and thought you all might be interested.

1) never trust that all friends/aquantancies will stand by you in the event of difficulty.

2) Do not turn your back to the street especially at night.

3) Try and be aware of all that is happening around you.

4) without ID, money, credit cards etc. hospitals will let you die until somebody offers to assist. Even with insurance nothing will be done until they know who you are and can confirm insurance.

5) mobile phones are essential if it is not stolen. If it is then at least one number should be committed to memory to call for assistance. Assuming of course that you are able to communicate it to a nurse.

6) take some form of defense or deterrent. Walking stick might suffice. Dog might depending on breed. Don't think my Golden would be any good and I hope I don't have to find out.

7) Don't walk anywhere...drive in a car if at all possible. Park as close to where you are going as possible. If you think it's too far go somewhere else.

[bkkjames]

For those who are insured, I believe they can pre-register with BPH. You could sew a compartment in your pants for a credit card. I think BPH is best avoided overall. Their reputation precedes them. That said, if the OP was taken to a more Thai hospital such as Pattaya Memorial, would he have received immediate treatment? Or would he have shamefully been denied as happened at BPH. Reading this story raises my blood pressure.

That's pretty sad that you are having to recommend for visitors to the place to register at a hospital at the beginning of their trip to Pattaya. Practical I know but really says a lot about the place.

[sharecropper]

A terrible tale. I hope you recover quickly.

As to the hospital aspect of it, doesn't some blame reside with the Swawang Boriboon? They decide where to take you, and why dump someone at BPH if they are unconscious and not carrying ID cards, when they must know the hospital's policy?

If I was a BPH executive, I may take serious note of this incident and the one Raro describes (and probably many each week we never hear about) and have some form of pro-bono medical officer on duty who CAN deal with these (foreigner and Thai) emergencies, stitching wounds, for example, maybe up to a prescribed costs limit, and st least ensure the patient is comfortable or not actually deteriorating.

It's probably a tough call from a medical negligence point of view, but it is better than leaving someone untreated.

The PR would also help the hospital who seem to come off badly in this kind of incident.

[KKK]

For those who are insured, I believe they can pre-register with BPH. You could sew a compartment in your pants for a credit card. I think BPH is best avoided overall. Their reputation precedes them. That said, if the OP was taken to a more Thai hospital such as Pattaya Memorial, would he have received immediate treatment? Or would he have shamefully been denied as happened at BPH. Reading this story raises my blood pressure.

I have been registered at BPH since it was built. However without ID they don't know who I am. My insurance (BUPA) only covers for 3,000 emergency OP. Had they been able to identify me (tattoo of my BPH or BUPA numbers) I'm sure they would have made me IP where I'm covered for something like 100K. But as I've not been there for some years how do BPH know if my insurance is still valid? Whoever made the call and got a BPH ambulance to pick me up I don't know. Had I been concious I would have chosen Memorial or even Sattahip. They, a Thai?, probably saw a white man and assumed BPH. I'd love to know how a Thai would be treated in a similar case in UK or US.

Thais are very concerned about face. Well IMHO they have lost a lot and some sort of procedure needs to be implemented by government to avoid this no ID, no money, non-treatment in the future.

[Jingthing]

Thanks for the info about pre-registering. I wasn't sure if that would have worked either, so your report is very helpful. I agree that clearly they saw farang, go to farang hospital. Perhaps they actually thought they were doing you a favor. I really hope this story is widely broadcast. Bad PR? Well deserved. They need to answer for this. It is the tip of the iceberg.

[KKK]

As to the hospital aspect of it, doesn't some blame reside with the Swawang Boriboon? They decide where to take you, and why dump someone at BPH if they are unconscious and not carrying ID cards, when they must know the hospital's policy?

If I was a BPH executive, I may take serious note of this incident and the one Raro describes (and probably many each week we never hear about) and have some form of pro-bono medical officer on duty who CAN deal with these (foreigner and Thai) emergencies, stitching wounds, for example, maybe up to a prescribed costs limit, and st least ensure the patient is comfortable or not actually deteriorating.

It's probably a tough call from a medical negligence point of view, but it is better than leaving someone untreated.

The PR would also help the hospital who seem to come off badly in this kind of incident.

It wasn't Swang Boriboon. Apparently is was a big white amulance and Swang Borriboon don't have them. They have converted pick-up trucks. I believe only places here with UK style amulances are BPH and memorial. I wish it had been Swang Borriboon I might have ended up in Naklua hospital.

I agree with you 100% about PR. Quick emergency treatment should be given upon arrival irrespective of ID/money status. I'm pretty sure that 9 out of 10 cases they'll get thier money later.

[Spoonman]

Scumbags, lowlife fookin scumbags.

As to hospitals, im with Jingthing, i was admitted to Pattaya Memorial requiring 25 stitches in my head, they stitched and cleaned me up, total bill was 4500b, they did actually want to keep me in over night but as they could not verify my Bupa insurance card until the morning they wanted a 20k deposit, needless to say i felt fine so i went home.

[KKK]

As to hospitals, im with Jingthing, i was admitted to Pattaya Memorial requiring 25 stitches in my head, they stitched and cleaned me up, total bill was 4500b, they did actually want to keep me in over night but as they could not verify my Bupa insurance card until the morning they wanted a 20k deposit, needless to say i felt fine so i went home.

PM 25 stitches=4500 = 180/stitch

BPH 5 stitches=7,000 less 1500 abulance charge = 1,100/stitch

BPH 600% more...not that I'm complaining about that. My bug is with the no-treatment policy until payment is guaranteed. Just spoke with an ex-UK senior male nurse. Matron in the old terminology. He said immediate attention should be given to all head wounds no matter how small. Any delay can be disastrous.

Last time I renewed my BUPA I was not given a card. Told by my agent that they no longer did that. But you must have ID (driving license suffices) and they will call BUPA to confirm. I had no ID and was asleep (not unconcious, I reckon my body shut down in the trauma) for over 2 hours. And confirmation can only be done in normal working hours!?! Ridiculous. Most incidents such as mine would happen at night I'm sure. Obviously no planning, thought, or caring here on behalf of BUPA and BPH. Confirmation of insurance should be available 24/7.

BPH want me to visit every day to redress the wound. My matron friend says not necessary. Any exposure of the wound to the air increases the risk of infection. Leave it covered for the full 5 to 7 days and then remove the stitches. Dressing should only be looked at if there are signs of puss or blackening at the edge of the dressing. BPH money making machine at work again. I trust my (matron) friend 100% and he will remove the stitches.

Edited December 23, 2009 by KKK

[Phil Conners]

It would be good if some of the local press (Howard, where are you now?) would put a story like this on the frontpage so perhaps someone who can and will make a difference learns about it.

The way hospitals here, particularly BPH, would be cause for criminal lawsuits in the west.

[Jingthing]

The local press is not interested in this kind of pro consumer investigative journalism. For example, not one story about why the taxis here don't use their meters. Why are they like that? You figure it out.

BPH is a classic example of what happens when the medical profession exists only for the profit motive.

[theoldgit]

What a wake up call and shame on the hospital, I agree they should be named and shamed this would give them the opportunity to defend their policy of how they treat people in such circumstances.

Looks like you are ok KKK, and that's no thanks to the hospital.

[KKK]

It would be good if some of the local press (Howard, where are you now?) would put a story like this on the frontpage so perhaps someone who can and will make a difference learns about it.

The way hospitals here, particularly BPH, would be cause for criminal lawsuits in the west.

Good idea. Not for me but for anybody who might suffer in the future. Something really needs to be done. If criminal lawsuits could be made against BPH and the like then I'm sure none of this would happen. It is the lack of any easy method (ambulance chaser lawyers) that allows the present system to continue. Not that I condon ambulance chaser lawyers but they might make BPH and the like revise current policy.

Excuse me but I must sign off now and get some sleep. I'm feeling extremly tired with all this brain activity. I'll be back in the morning or later tonight. Thanks to all of you for making this an extremly good thread and for all your comments. Keep up the good work and you never know "Perhaps we can make a difference".

[KKK]

The local press is not interested in this kind of pro consumer investigative journalism. For example, not one story about why the taxis here don't use their meters. Why are they like that? You figure it out.

Shame on them as well if this is true. Investigative journalism should be the main objective of any newspaper. Just copying what comes through on Reuters or lands on the desk is insufficient. Newspaper...I wouldn't call them that....Rag more like it.

[Mobi]

This is a very sad story, and I hope that the OP and his friend make full recoveries, and that not too much physical and psychological damage has been done by this incident.

But, if I may, I would like to suggest that we keep a sense of proportion about this.

Firstly, on the question of personal safety, in and around Pattaya.

Certainly it could be a lot better, by introducing some very simple measures: like having police patrol the beach areas at night (where many of the mugging crimes occur); keeping the lights on the beach all night instead of turning them off and leaving very dark areas where crimes can be perpetrated; (after all Pattaya is open 24/7 and tourists like to wander along the beach at all hours); putting muggers away for long periods instead of letting them out on bail, and rarely ever requiring them to do jail time. Time and time again we have seen muggers re-offend, almost with impunity. A strong deterrent would do a lot to reduce the rate of random muggings, as right now, the muggers figure they will never do time, even if caught.

I am sure there are many other measures which could also be introduced to reduce crime - the above are just random examples off the top of my head - but the fact remains that by any world standards, I simply do not believe that Pattaya is a dangerous city. There have been endless debates on this, and all kinds of stats banded about, but for me the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Since I moved to Pattaya City (as opposed to living 20kms east of the city) a couple of months back I have spent many an hour at all hours of the day and night walking around in Pattaya in all the popular areas - Walking Street, Beach Road, Soi Bukow and so on, and never once have I seen even a suggestion of an incident. I have seen thousands of tourists, wandering around and enjoying themselves well into the small hours (3 a.m. and beyond) and all seem to be safe and happy. I have not even seen any signs of the so-called lager louts from England and elsewhere making trouble and starting fights in the beer bars.

Maybe I have just been lucky - but I think not. If you read the gallant Rimmer's accounts of crimes in his daily Pattaya press clippings, you can see that the level of crime - from muggings, to house burglaries, and even the occasional shootings and murders are very likely at a lower level than in any major western city, and certainly much lower than in popular tourist spots, such as Florida or the Caribbean.

We live in the 21st century, and there is crime all over the world, and there will always be drug addicts, opportunists, con men and scam artists, starving and penniless people who will commit crimes to stay alive, feed there expensive habits, or are just plain evil and would rather break the law than do an honest day's work. This is life, and Pattaya is after all, probably the largest whore house in the world. Anyone who comes to 'Sin City' and expects the City Fathers to provide 24 hours protection from all the pimps, whores and low life that inevitably inhabit such a place, is living in cloud cuckoo land.

It is of no consolation to the OP who has been savagely mugged, but the fact remains that by taking simple precautions, one can avoid all but the most unusual acts of crime. There are obvious measures that can be taken, like not walking in dark and out of the way places late at night where muggers may be hovering. Even areas of the Beach should be no-go areas after midnight. The rule of thumb is to stay in areas which are well lit and more importantly, where there are plenty of people around. Avoid any signs or trouble, including local gangs wandering around, or even drunken farangs misbehaving. Do not ever get into any dispute with any Thai, whether or not you are in the right. Just walk away. And never get too drunk that you are incapable of taking proper care of yourself and are consequently an obvious target for a potential mugger. Senior citizens should take even more care as it has been shown that elderly and vulnerable people are often targeted by muggers. They are all cowards and tend to keep clear of strapping, male six footers, unless they are in a gang, and the farang is all alone.

All this will not guarantee that you will not be mugged, but it will reduce the odds of it happening. This is so in any city in the world, and I really don't believe the dangers are greater here than in most places in the west. How many downtown city areas in the UK would you Brits be happy to go to after dark? Not many, I'll be bound.

Now to the issue of medical assistance. As many of you probably know, all accidents are attended to in the first incidence, by "free lance " ambulance/ rescue services, who receive payment from the hospitals for taking the business to them. If you happen to be a victim but are still conscious, you can tell the rescue service which hospital you wish to be sent to and they will respect your wishes. So if, for example, you know you cannot afford Bangkok Pattaya's charges, then you can elect to go to one of the other hospitals - Pattaya Memorial, Pattaya International, or even Banglamung government hospital.

The subject of BPH refusing to treat accident victims until they have seen the "colour of their money" and is well documented, and there have been a number of distressing incidences where people have died as a result of this "commercial" policy. The hospital has always denied it and many threads have been removed, at the hospital's behest, but everyone knows that it is so and their denials are meaningless. This is Thailand where the name of the game is to lie and deny your way out of all difficult situations. If you live or visit here, you must understand this and accept it.

So the fact remains that the hospitals will not treat you without knowing you can pay. This is a fact of life,and it doesn't matter how many column inches of outrage are written on this, how many threads are closed, or how many denials are made, it will never change, and if you think you can change it you are wasting your time. Accept it as a fact and move on.

So what can you do if you are mugged and are unconscious and the muggers have stolen all your possessions? Well the only suggestion I can make in these circumstances is to make sure that you do carry some kind of medical insurance ( some local plans are not too exorbitant) and make sure the card for this is carried on your body, but not in your wallet. Maybe inside your underpants might be a good place, as even muggers are unlikely to investigate your nether regions. I carry a card which I am told is recognised by all hospitals in Thailand. My insurer is a member of a special scheme called "China Medi Help" which provides emergency medical and evacuation assistance online. I understand that all health insurers operating in Thailand have signed up to this scheme and that the hospitals are in the loop. There will even be a new card issued soon which can be swiped at the hospitals, and the computer will come up with your full personal details including medical conditions and scope of cover.

Outside of this, the only other suggestion I can make is to carry a: "in case of a medical emergency call...." card which again is kept on your body, and NOT in your wallet. It might be a good idea to have this card in Thai as well as English.

At the end of the day (what a terrible cliche), you are visiting or live in a "third world" country, where the rule of law doesn't really exist in any accepted western sense, and even if it does, it is enforced by a bunch of organised Mafiosos, who are in league with all the local criminals.

It's a chance you take for living in and enjoying this slightly flawed paradise.

Once again my heart goes out to the unfortunate victims of this particular incident - get well soon.

[endlessimage]

This song comes to mind

A doctor in Manhattan

Saved a dying man for free

It's a miracle

It's a miracle, Roger Waters

The iconic Roger Waters. A poet and musician that may never be surpassed....

Edited December 23, 2009 by endlessimage

[Slaps]

This song comes to mind

A doctor in Manhattan

Saved a dying man for free

It's a miracle

It's a miracle, Roger Waters

The iconic Roger Waters. A poet and musician that may never be surpassed....

Spot On

Edited December 23, 2009 by Slaps

[Rimmer]

Last time I renewed my BUPA I was not given a card. Told by my agent that they no longer did that.

Strange I just renewed last month and was give two cards, one for the actual cover and one for the top up policy I have.

[endlessimage]

This song comes to mind

A doctor in Manhattan

Saved a dying man for free

It's a miracle

It's a miracle, Roger Waters

The iconic Roger Waters. A poet and musician that may never be surpassed....

Spot On

I just indulged in the pleasure of listening to "Amused To Death". Thanks for jogging my memory

[Beardog]

Really sorry to hear about your misfortune on both accounts. as the money tightens the thugs are getting more aggressive. And it is not just here in Pattaya 20 kilos from there in Bang Sare - Sattahib area. Juk (our local officer & protection after we got robbed at gunpoint( A fake 45 cal. I couldn't tell cause they killed the lights- Not that it would have mattered 5 were in on it 4 have gotten 20+ year sentences & 1 is still at large) Juk tells me he bags at a minimum of 2 a day. I carry a marine flare gun that will incinerate the insides at point blank range when investigating unusual noises. I had a 38 for a while but was concerned with shooting an innocent if the 1st round missed. The flare gun at range doesn't ever miss & has a zero to none life expectancy rate. Unfortunately in your situation you were not ready for the attack. I am glad you came out of it OK. I agree PIH would have been 2000 baht for the stitches & another 2000 for a cat scan if needed.We have added many measures to our security along with a not so friendly to neighbor black lab with big white teeth. Since the robbery we had our Golden retriever sleeps a hel_l of a lot lighter.

To bad they didn't steal your cell phone & use it. That's how they tracked the rat bastards that staged our event.

Sure would have loved to had my Glock I have in Nevada.(but a 9mm. bullet would go through many layers of brick before coming to rest. ..........but I thought there were only 3 initially & turned out to be 5 . I would hate to have had one of the 2 outside with a real piece & had a shootout at the homestead. That & I was separated from my gal & wouldn't risk unloading a 9mm. without being able to identify the target & not knowing where my gal was.

One thing for sure. You can never be to sure & assume that cause you have always been safe in the past means that good luck will continue. I am over the salty part of my event but wouldn't feel to hideously sorry if someone coming in to do harm got 3 or 4 organs fused together. Glad your safe!

[raro]

not sure what the guns would have helped you if someone clubs you from behind without warning...

[Ulysses G.]

They wouldn't, but they might if you were in a situation where you saw them coming.

[Ohio]

We ( wife & I) both carry Patients card from BPH , BUT , if it is in the stolen wallet ????

Baht rules in Patts even at the expense of Health & well being I fear.

Seems to be another reason to look at alternatives to Pattaya for a destination of long term breaks.

Hope you are OK & would love to see the Police Report ?? on this in the paper