Cambodia Denies Wiretapping Thai Embassy

[TAWP]

Cambodia Denies Wiretapping Thai Embassy

UPDATE : 24 December 2009

The Cambodian government has denied that they intercepted a telephone conversation between a Thai diplomatic official and the Thai engineer who was accused of spying through a wiretap.

The Cambodian government has responded to Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's interview that the Cambodian authority may have intercepted a telephone conversation between a Thai diplomat officer and the Thai engineer who was accused of spying through a wiretap.

According the statement, the Cambodian government has denied the accusation, claiming that they do not condone such illegal methods, as they contradict their principals.

The statement says the accusation is just a figment of the Thai prime minister's imagination, and is aimed to gain political support and distract the public from the Thai government's weakness.

The Cambodian government has also accused Abhisit of creating an image of Cambodia as a rogue country, which is completely the opposite of the truth, as Cambodia is a country ruled by laws.

Phnom Penh has claimed that the Cambodian government received the record of the telephone conversation between the Thai diplomat and the Thai engineer from a private telephone company. According to the statement, the telephone conversation was recorded for billing purposes.

Sivarak Chutipong, a Thai engineer who works for a subsidiary of Samart Corporation, was charged and jailed by the Cambodian authorities for disclosing former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinnawatra's flight information. Sivarak was sentenced to seven years in prison and a 10 million Riel fine before he was pardoned by the Cambodian monarch.

http://www.tannetwork.tv/tan/ViewData.aspx?DataID=1022755

[ballpoint]

As Santa would say, ho ho ho. "It's not a rogue country", '"we don't condone illegal methods", yet we allow phone companies to record private calls for "billing practices", including those to an embassy, listen to those recordings, and then hand them over to the government. I'm sure a lot of investors who have set up shop in Cambodia will be very interested to hear this. Ruled by laws indeed. Ruled by the ravings of one tin pot, and his newly hired dummy, more like.

[neverdie]

According to the statement, the telephone conversation was recorded for billing purposes

Give me a break.

Sure, alot of us were born at night time, but not last night

[Latindancer]

It seems that _ANY_ excuse will do......

[TAWP]

So...the telephone company routinely records the conversations for billing purposes and then, as per tradition presumably, hands all of them over to the government?

They forgot something in their excuse...

[Latindancer]

"According to the statement, the telephone conversation was recorded for billing purposes "

In Cambodia, people are billed less when they shout over the phone because less electricity is then used by the system.

Edited December 24, 2009 by Latindancer

[BangkokJazz]

Cambodia - Bastion of Freedom and Democracy. Which is why Thaksin fits in so well there...

[RickBradford]

Cambodia Denies Wiretapping Thai Embassy

Well, to paraphrase Mandy Rice-Davies, they would, wouldn't they?

The Cambodian people are -- or were when I was last there in '05 -- a very nice people, but Hun Sen is one of the nastiest b*st*rds on the planet, no better than the Burmese junta and not far off North Korea's Dear Leader. A complete sh*t, and his cronies are the same.

[Maizefarmer]

So...the telephone company routinely records the conversations for billing purposes and then, as per tradition presumably, hands all of them over to the government?

They forgot something in their excuse...

I think what was meant was that tel billing records (which would identify dialled tel numbers ) are proof that the call(s) took place i.e. that the diplomat in question and the "Thai engineer/spy", a one Khun Sivarak Chuthipong (who is a Thai comm's engineer working for SAMART, contracted to maintain Cambodia's Air Traffic Control system), were in contact.

In the broader context of the Cambodian authorities monitoring what the Thai mission was up to - standard practise, all (or should that be "most"?) countries discretely monitor diplomatic missions on their soil, to some extent or other - friend and foe alike - at all times, and in times of crisis crank up monitoring even more so.

In South East Asia no one carries out tel checks on it's citizens & businesses more so than Thailand, through ISOC.

So - should we be suprized to learn that Cambodia does so?

What's suprizing to learn is that a Thai diplomat was so naive and lax going about contact with the alleged Thai "spy" - it was an almost foregone conclusion that his phone/s were going to be monitored (if not always, then for sure currently because of the circumstances).

Edited December 24, 2009 by Maizefarmer

[dumball]

'TAWP' post='3223148' date='2009-12-24 14:26:09']So...the telephone company routinely records the conversations for billing purposes and then, as per tradition presumably, hands all of them over to the government?

They forgot something in their excuse...

I think what was meant was that tel billing records (which would identify dialled tel numbers ) are proof that the call(s) took place i.e. that the diplomat in question and the "Thai engineer/spy", a one Khun Sivarak Chuthipong (who is a Thai comm's engineer working for SAMART, contracted to maintain Cambodia's Air Traffic Control system), were in contact.

In the broader context of the Cambodian authorities monitoring what the Thai mission was up to - standard practise, all (or should that be "most"?) countries discretely monitor diplomatic missions on their soil, to some extent or other - friend and foe alike - at all times, and in times of crisis crank up monitoring even more so.

In South East Asia no one carries out tel checks on it's citizens & businesses more so than Thailand, through ISOC.

So - should we be suprized to learn that Cambodia does so?

What's suprizing to learn is that a Thai diplomat was so naive and lax going about contact with the alleged Thai "spy" - it was an almost foregone conclusion that his phone/s were going to be monitored (if not always, then for sure currently because of the circumstances).

Thank you maizefarmer for the clarification , too many jump on the key board to exitedly condem or belittle , having little to no facts to back up their spiel , tawp is one of those constantly asking for verification but often does not put his money where his mouth is ,i.e. substantiate his ramblings .

[Maizefarmer]

Lets not forget who the real power in Cambodia is.

It ain't Hun Sen. Behind him is a collegue of his from the Khmer Rouge days - and ethnic Chinese named Teng Boonma.

Boonma has fingers in all sorts of pies, but the majoirty of his wealth has come from real estate trading (ironicaly in Thailand and Bangkok and to a lesser extent HK and Camboida its self). He dominates both legitimate and counterfeit cigerrete production in Cambodia is is alleged to be a major player on the Thai counterfeit tabbaco brand name market - more than one major tobbaco anti-counterfeiting operation concerning Thailand Tobacco Monopoly brand name fags, had the plug pulled on it during Thaksin's tenure at the last minute - on orders from "executive level decision takers" - which left both TTM and foreign brand name owners (who licensed production to TTM) shaking their heads in disbelief.

Last but not least is TBM's alleged involvement in drug production/smuggling, according to some authorities (to include the US authorities). Anyhow, however you wish to view TBM, whatever you think of him, there's little doubt his influence in Cambodian politics is substantial.

My take on Thaksin's presence and survival in Cambodia (what he does and what role he plays) is going to be more about his relationship with TBM, than his relationship with Hun Sen.

Edited December 24, 2009 by Maizefarmer

[TAWP]

Thank you maizefarmer for the clarification , too many jump on the key board to exitedly condem or belittle , having little to no facts to back up their spiel , tawp is one of those constantly asking for verification but often does not put his money where his mouth is ,i.e. substantiate his ramblings .

Thank you for that attack, and next you will explain how the Cambodian government came to know about this phone call in the first place, as surely it cannot be routine that the phone company hands over call-lists of the embassy's calls to the Cambodian government hours after they happen? I mean, wouldn't that be...what was the words they used in their excuse...'creating an image of Cambodia as a rogue country'?

Oh, and so you know Mr Red, oh, sorry, 'dumball', since when is asking a question a rambling? Or an issue with lacking facts? Isn't that what one is seeking with the question?

You can re recognize a question by it ending with the marker '?'.

[mca]

So...the telephone company routinely records the conversations for billing purposes and then, as per tradition presumably, hands all of them over to the government?

They forgot something in their excuse...

I think what was meant was that tel billing records (which would identify dialled tel numbers ) are proof that the call(s) took place i.e. that the diplomat in question and the "Thai engineer/spy", a one Khun Sivarak Chuthipong (who is a Thai comm's engineer working for SAMART, contracted to maintain Cambodia's Air Traffic Control system), were in contact.

In the broader context of the Cambodian authorities monitoring what the Thai mission was up to - standard practise, all (or should that be "most"?) countries discretely monitor diplomatic missions on their soil, to some extent or other - friend and foe alike - at all times, and in times of crisis crank up monitoring even more so.

In South East Asia no one carries out tel checks on it's citizens & businesses more so than Thailand, through ISOC.

So - should we be suprized to learn that Cambodia does so?

What's suprizing to learn is that a Thai diplomat was so naive and lax going about contact with the alleged Thai "spy" - it was an almost foregone conclusion that his phone/s were going to be monitored (if not always, then for sure currently because of the circumstances).

I implore you to stop making sensible posts Maizefarmer. It goes against the grain of political discussion on this forum.

[slapout]

With no firsthand info at my beck and call, reading news and subsequent comments, the ongoing statements/barbs between the two countries, remind me of my teenage daughter pulling each others chain. I equate those people in the spotlight in these two countries, as well as many other countries of the world, to a sports playing field. The players we see, hear about, and follow are coached/led by a ex player, who has the knowledge/background but has lost physical attributes required/desired to be on the field. Some were gentlemen in their day and some were thugs, and some a complete waste of space thus cut from the team, with these attributes showing via their protegees.

[londonthai]

all phonecalls, on the landline and mobile, can and are controlled by the security services - even more so, if they they are diplomats, businessmen, foreigners etc. It's not only in cambodia, but thailand and every single country.

some phones are listened at all time, some are recorded authomatically, when triggering words come up - technologies first used back in the middle of 1970-ties in italy against domestic terrorists.

the condition for every mobile company to operate is to hand out to the security services the cod, in the beginning of the 1990-ties french mobile company took government to the european court, and lost.

[lensta]

Who cares, this is like watching 2 primary school children trying to get the better of each other in the playground.

Neither country is a player on the world stage. As has been said before Thailand is Cambodia with electricity or Cambodia is just Thailand without electricity, which pretty well sums it up.

[Steve2UK]

Thank you maizefarmer for the clarification , too many jump on the key board to exitedly condem or belittle , having little to no facts to back up their spiel , tawp is one of those constantly asking for verification but often does not put his money where his mouth is ,i.e. substantiate his ramblings .

Thank you for that attack, and next you will explain how the Cambodian government came to know about this phone call in the first place, as surely it cannot be routine that the phone company hands over call-lists of the embassy's calls to the Cambodian government hours after they happen? I mean, wouldn't that be...what was the words they used in their excuse...'creating an image of Cambodia as a rogue country'?

Oh, and so you know Mr Red, oh, sorry, 'dumball', since when is asking a question a rambling? Or an issue with lacking facts? Isn't that what one is seeking with the question?

You can re recognize a question by it ending with the marker '?'.

As others have pointed out, most countries expect most other countries to do all they can to monitor each others' diplomatic communications - and all will deny that they do it. On that basis, I'd certainly expect it to be routine for a priority embassy's call-lists to be handed over to the host government's security agency. However indignant the Cambodian government's denials, if monitoring communications makes them a "rogue state", then "we all live in rogue states now".

Apart from that, note the exact wording of the denial: "The Cambodian government has responded to Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's interview that the Cambodian authority may have intercepted a telephone conversation between a Thai diplomat officer and the Thai engineer who was accused of spying through a wiretap" [my emphasis]. Rather like Clinton's "I did not have sex with that woman" and others' "being economical with the truth". In this case, that works out to "1) We knew about the call from the call-list. 2) The telco routinely* records calls for "billing practices". 3) We requested the recording from the telco. 4) So, no - we didn't "intercept" this call "through a wiretap".

* For an example of this, see my 2008 posts about the practice in that bastion of civil rights - Singapore: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1869469

PS> Calling dumball "Mr Red" is not an attack? Has dumball ever announced he supports Thaksin/UDD? Assuming it's not a seasonal reference to Santa, could we please see a complete end to anyone from whichever side of an issue slinging these accusations around?

Edited December 25, 2009 by Steve2UK

[chuang]

Moron politicians....

[TAWP]

Steve2k>> Ofcourse they monitor the conversations. That is my point. THEY said they where not a rogue state, and as such didn't do such things. We both would disagree and guess they do, correct? That isn't MY definition of a rogue state, it is THEIRS.

If Mr dumball finds offense in being called Red then I am sure he will let us know. It was merely a show of what he was doing in his post, assigning unproven labels or characteristics to another poster merely since he wanted to fill out his rant with a more personal touch. And he went on the attack based on a question, so...crocodile tears.

[Asa]

Discussing the statement amazed me