Organized Crime Against Foreigners

[basjke]

Dear All,this story will prove the organized crime against foreigners existing in Pattaya and with the involvement of high ranking officials from the provincial electricity authority.(PEA)

It all starts when I am building my house but due to the fact that there is only high voltage available in my area I have the need to purchase a transformer.From topics in the real estate sub forum from Thaivisa I know that this can be installed either by the PEA or a subcontractor.Evidence of installation by PEA is present in the forum through pictures posted by a member.

So I send my constructor to the PEA in Banglamung-Naklua to apply for a transformer.At the application desk at the right side in the office she(my constructor is female) is sent to another small office attached to the left side of the main building.This office houses at least 3 subcontractors who work for the PEA.

Once in there she is asked for the location of the house and been told that they will visit the next day to make a price calculation.

The next they they visit,take all the measurements,make some phone calls to verify prices and finally tell her that the price for a 30 Kva single phase transformer will be 158.000 Baht.This price include the government fees and guarantees but excludes the main distribution board and the electric meter.She is been told that she can come apply for the installation the next day.

At that point the company is not aware that there is a foreigner involved.

The next day she goes to the office with the copy's of my passport and blue and yellow tabien baan and the necessary power of attorney's.I requested an electric meter in my name because I am single but as soon as they see a farang name the problems start.They find all sort of excuses to avoid taking the job and refuse to confirm the price.After some more visits they give her back the application forms and tell her that it is impossible for a farang to get an installation in his name.

At that point I decide to visit the PEA office myself and meet some PEA employee who speaks fairly good english and listens to my story.When I tell him that the subcontractor refuses the application because a farang can not have a electric meter he laughs but tells me that he is not allowed to interfere in those sub-contractor's business.He advises me to go speak to his manager on the 3rd floor and says make sure he understand what problem you have because he doesn't speak english.

So up I go to the managers offfice.When entering the office I'm met by another thai person who speaks english and asks me why I want to talk to the manager.I explain him my problem and he reply's that it is not the managers problem and that he doesn't understand english.SAo I ask him to translate for me but he refuses and tell me that I better leave the office.At that point I don't know who is the guy but on a later occasion I find out that he works in the sub-contractors office and was coincidental there to bring some documents.

No problem,my constructor has from a previous project a phone number from another contractor who is approved by the PEA and calls him to make a price offer.One of his employees visit the site the next day and gives her more or less the same price estimate.The next day he also refuses to take the application.He has a representative in the same office,left of the main building,and probably has heard that a farang is involved.

So the next week,as there have been official holidays,I go visit the PEA main office with a friend who speaks good thai.When we arrive on the 3rd floor again the very helpful employee from before introduces us to the assistant manager because the manager himself is not present.Before he introduces us he tells that this is a complete mafia affair,he uses these words,and if the manager gets involved he risks....... and he makes the sign of a cutting throat.

So we enter the office of the assistant manager and he calls downstairs to bring him the application.Some guy comes upstairs to take the copy of my constructor id card and after some time returns and says that there is no such application.

So the assistant manager listens to us and says that he will make a price estimate himself.If I pay him first 5.350 Baht he will send someone to the land and tell me the price.If I take their offer the money will be deducted from the cost but if they turn out to be too expensive I lose the 5.350 Baht

As this is in my opinion a quiet expensive gamble we decide to go one more time to the subcontractors office.Overthere nobody acknowledges our presence but my constructor recieves a phone call that we are wasting our time and that we better leave the office.Then my constructor comes over to talk to the guy she spoke previously and surprise they find the application straight away.

So up we go to the 3rd floor again with the application and accompanied with the same guy who didn't find the application 30 minutes earlier.So then the assistant manager explains us that it is impossibel,which is a lie,for a foreigner to own an electric meter.

At that pointy I get so sick of this bullsh_t that I call a thai friend and ask if she will apply for the electric meter in his name to which she agrees.She comes to the PEA office with her tabien baan and while I still talk to the assistant manager she goes to the subcontractors office.After a few minutes she returns and says that she first has to pay 5000 baht BEFORE they want to confirm the total cost.At that point the ass-manager sends me to the PEA sub office on Pattaya klang and says that somebody can help me overthere and surprise again there is an employee who's "brother" owns a company who can install the transformer and no thai name needed.He tells me that he will do the survey and that I can pick up the calculation from the company's office on Thepprasit road.

So straight after leaving the pea office I drive to the company on Thepprasit road where only some employees are present.I don't talk about my project but ask the price for a 30Kva transformer which they show me is 75.000 Baht.They have standard installation packages which include the transformer, 1 pole,the labour,the materials and the PEA fees.It shows to be 147.800 Baht for a 30 Kva transformer installation.

The next they I visit the manager,together with the employee from the PEA sub office to pick up my price calculation whichs show 258.600 Baht.You have to know that my installation is a standard package as the high voltage lines are present at my property so no need for extra cables and/or poles.

So now I also know why the other companies refused to confirm their price,but I still can't prove anything.

Someone points me to yet another company in Na-Jomtien on sukhumvith road.I contact hem and he visit my land straight away.Takes a look,as there are no measurements to be taken it is a standard package,and tells me that the total price including main distribution board and all PEA fees wiil be more or less 180.000 Baht for a 50 Kva single phase transformer.A 30 Kva which I need will be little less.The next day he emails me the price calculation which I include hereby and that shows a shocking total of 260.879 Baht( 200.729 transformer and 60.150 PEA fees) for the same installation that a day earlier would cost 80.000 Baht less.

But what he forgot was to detach some part from the exel sheet.Take a look at the colloms K to O.I first thought that the prices in there were his profit margins,which are very extreme anyway,but after I had someone translated the thai text in collom O it turned out to be the EXTRA PROFITS CALCULATED FOR FARANG only.The text in red is added by me to translate the thai text but you can cut and paste the text yourself in google translator or let your girlfriend translate and it reads literally FARANG.

So if you take a look at the excel sheet you see that collom J shows the real cost,K shows the added percentage which you have to multiply with 100,O shows the added farang cost,and at the bottom of N you can see what the added total cost was for this farang. 70.239 Baht.

So by this I have prove that all these company's are fixing the prices for foreigners and that the PEA avoid to install to transformers themselves as someone at the top is eating from the same table.

Sorry for my long rant but I wanted give you all the details just to prove how big this criminal organization in reality is.

[chiang mai]

Is anyone apart from you surprised at this I wonder, dual pricing is a feature of the landscape here, sad but true so best accept it and move forward.

[oxyjohn]

so frustating, is there anything you can do further?

[basjke]

Is anyone apart from you surprised at this I wonder, dual pricing is a feature of the landscape here, sad but true so best accept it and move forward.

Yes but you seem to forget that this is on official level.And adding 70.000 baht on a 130.000 baht project I can hardly call dual pricing.

[chiang mai]

Is anyone apart from you surprised at this I wonder, dual pricing is a feature of the landscape here, sad but true so best accept it and move forward.

Yes but you seem to forget that this is on official level.And adding 70.000 baht on a 130.000 baht project I can hardly call dual pricing.

I forget nothing, for example, who do you think sets the dual prices paid by farangs into national parks etc, certainly not the serfs or workers.

[basjke]

Dual pricing in national parks or any other place can be avoided by talking with your feet.

This example can not be avoided as you have no other choice.I haven't found aircons without electricity and i have no intention of lighting my house with candles.

This kind of double pricing is a criminal act and as I said probably promoted by certain officials but not in an official way.I realy want to take this further if possible but I don't have the contact numbers.

I know that here is a organization for customer protection in Thailand but I don't have the contact details.Maybe someone can post them.

[stolidfeline]

Yes, it's a criminal act. So ? Does that mean anything ?

[JimmyTheMook]

Dual pricing in national parks or any other place can be avoided by talking with your feet.

This example can not be avoided as you have no other choice.I haven't found aircons without electricity and i have no intention of lighting my house with candles.

This kind of double pricing is a criminal act and as I said probably promoted by certain officials but not in an official way.I realy want to take this further if possible but I don't have the contact numbers.

I know that here is a organization for customer protection in Thailand but I don't have the contact details.Maybe someone can post them.

Try and get your story published in the letters to the editor section of the Bangkok Post and you may want to visit Pattaya City Hall and mention you're interested in getting some press coverage on this if you can find someone to listen.

It may fall on deaf ears as we are living in a Banana Republic, we are Farangs and really do not belong here.

[siggie2]

Maybe the people involved are that thick,they just double the price like baht bus drivers,taxis,water parks etc etc etc.

Extreme add ons but this is Thailand and they dont think of this beong organised crime against farang just a standard rip off which thais are experts at,exactly the same as many scams involving farangs,aka Phuket,Pattaya and Hua Hin

[simon43]

Accoding to both my translation and that of my Thai GF, that Thai phrase maks no reference at all to farang. It actually says something like 'material price difference'

Of course, it certainly could be the special 'Farang tax'

Simon

[Tywais]

Accoding to both my translation and that of my Thai GF, that Thai phrase maks no reference at all to farang. It actually says something like 'material price difference'

This is the phrase >ส่วนต่างค่าวัสดุ which means "difference in price of materials" as indicated above. Could mean what the OP thinks or something else.

Funny enough though, Google translate comes up with "Foreign material costs".

[basjke]

Accoding to both my translation and that of my Thai GF, that Thai phrase maks no reference at all to farang. It actually says something like 'material price difference'

This is the phrase >ส่วนต่างค่าวัสดุ which means "difference in price of materials" as indicated above. Could mean what the OP thinks or something else.

Funny enough though, Google translate comes up with "Foreign material costs".

Thanks for the explanation Tywais.I can not read thai myself but as you say google translates it into " foreign" which as far as I know is farang and a thai lady translated it as farang cost.

What also bothers me the most is that I contacted 4 seperate companies which all have me a price of around 160.000 baht and all of them had the price risen by about 70.000 baht as soon as it was known that a foreigner was involved.

This points clearly to a price cartel against foreigners.

[Tywais]

This points clearly to a price cartel against foreigners.

I suspect that the Google translate was wrong as it often is. Breaking the words down it directly translates to "difference in material costs". I also just cross checked with my sister in law and she stated is says nothing about foreign/farang/foreigner in it but as I indicate above. I suspect they wouldn't be so blatant as to spell it out in a formal quotation due to the problems in form of proof if it came to a more formal accusation.

Your details though about a change of quotation multiple times does suggest it but not sure what can be done in a formal manner without creating a potential nightmare for you.

[cellbuilder]

Well done detective. Now work on this problem. You have angered the local mafia, specifically the boss, he knows your name, where you live and that you do not intend to stop your efforts to take away his rice bowl. Use your deductive powers here. The outcome is predictable. Dummy up.

[basjke]

Well done detective. Now work on this problem. You have angered the local mafia, specifically the boss, he knows your name, where you live and that you do not intend to stop your efforts to take away his rice bowl. Use your deductive powers here. The outcome is predictable. Dummy up.

Please quickly show me a place where I can hide.

Oh and by the way I'm not a detective,I only try to get my home hooked up to the public electricity network at a fair price.

Edited December 30, 2009 by basjke

[tropo]

Is anyone apart from you surprised at this I wonder, dual pricing is a feature of the landscape here, sad but true so best accept it and move forward.

Yes but you seem to forget that this is on official level.And adding 70.000 baht on a 130.000 baht project I can hardly call dual pricing.

Of course it is dual pricing. One cost for farang, another for non-farang.

You replied to another poster who compared it with dual pricing at national parks. You said it is not the same because you can choose to walk away from a national park. You have the same choice to walk away. Nobody is forcing you to build a house. Nobody is even forcing you to stay in Thailand.

Best advice here is to get off your bandwagon and live with it. You're not going to change a thing and you may get yourself into some serious trouble if you're seen to be interfering with someone's (the mafia) cash cow. Obviously it is a very well established enterprise and it looks like you were really getting too inquisitive. Surely the "leave this office now" requests were an indication you were way over your depth.

[Tywais]

Posts deleted for flaming OP. Further attacks will get warnings or suspensions.

[basjke]

Nobody is forcing you to build a house. Nobody is even forcing you to stay in Thailand.

Actually I was waiting for hours for you to jump into this thread with your nonsense replies,however you earlier today said that you were tired of arguing with me.So?

But don't worry I will inform you personal when i will be leaving thailand.Just don't hold your breath on it because I'm here much longer then you already and am sure I will also survive you.

[Satanza]

Nobody is forcing you to build a house. Nobody is even forcing you to stay in Thailand.

Actually I was waiting for hours for you to jump into this thread with your nonsense replies,however you earlier today said that you were tired of arguing with me.So?

But don't worry I will inform you personal when i will be leaving thailand.Just don't hold your breath on it because I'm here much longer then you already and am sure I will also survive you.

Just to let you know if you call that "organised crime"then god help you,ive been a victim of real serious organised crime here but i dont cry about it and starts topics on it.Get over it,this is will be my only comment on this because you are the type of person that i dont appreciate so ...Have a great day

[basjke]

Nobody is forcing you to build a house. Nobody is even forcing you to stay in Thailand.

Actually I was waiting for hours for you to jump into this thread with your nonsense replies,however you earlier today said that you were tired of arguing with me.So?

But don't worry I will inform you personal when i will be leaving thailand.Just don't hold your breath on it because I'm here much longer then you already and am sure I will also survive you.

Just to let you know if you call that "organised crime"then god help you,ive been a victim of real serious organised crime here but i dont cry about it and starts topics on it.Get over it,this is will be my only comment on this because you are the type of person that i dont appreciate so ...Have a great day

Hi Dpolenz welcome back.I know this gonna be your only comment actually I'm afraid it gonna be your last comment on this forum,Byyyyyyyeeeeeeee

[tropo]

Nobody is forcing you to build a house. Nobody is even forcing you to stay in Thailand.

Actually I was waiting for hours for you to jump into this thread with your nonsense replies,however you earlier today said that you were tired of arguing with me.So?

But don't worry I will inform you personal when i will be leaving thailand.Just don't hold your breath on it because I'm here much longer then you already and am sure I will also survive you.

Just to let you know if you call that "organised crime"then god help you,ive been a victim of real serious organised crime here but i dont cry about it and starts topics on it.Get over it,this is will be my only comment on this because you are the type of person that i dont appreciate so ...Have a great day

Hi Dpolenz welcome back.I know this gonna be your only comment actually I'm afraid it gonna be your last comment on this forum,Byyyyyyyeeeeeeee

You start a thread, then get upset when people don't agree with you. You titled this thread very dramatically to get attention and you're getting it.

The point is that organised crime and corruption are alive and well in Thailand. Most people know this when they come to settle. You've obviously been a little slow to learn that. So slow infact that it wasn't until you started building a house that you found out.

Better late than never.

Back off before the wolves tear you to shreds. How can you not see that trying to fight mafia enterprises is a waste of time and dangerous in a foreign land.

Drive by gangster style shootings are reported on here from time to time. Take heed. Life can be cheap, especially when you're threatening a 70,000 baht per farang customer cash cow.

In Western nations the wealthy pay more tax. You're building a house, so immediately you're labelling yourself as a wealthy foreigner. They didn't know you were on a tight budget and an extra 70k was going to be a problem.

[basjke]

You start a thread, then get upset when people don't agree with you. You titled this thread very dramatically to get attention and you're getting it.

The point is that organised crime and corruption are alive and well in Thailand. Most people know this when they come to settle. You've obviously been a little slow to learn that. So slow infact that it wasn't until you started building a house that you found out.

Better late than never.

Back off before the wolves tear you to shreds. How can you not see that trying to fight mafia enterprises is a waste of time and dangerous in a foreign land.

Drive by gangster style shootings are reported on here from time to time. Take heed. Life can be cheap, especially when you're threatening a 70,000 baht per farang customer cash cow.

In Western nations the wealthy pay more tax. You're building a house, so immediately you're labelling yourself as a wealthy foreigner. They didn't know you were on a tight budget and an extra 70k was going to be a problem.

I don't get upset when people don't agree with me.Actually Dpolenz Satanza has first already a flaming post removed,in fact he has joined just a few hours ago and 50% of his posts have already been removed.So far regarding my reaction to his second post.

To further explain I was well aware that organized crime was alive in Thailand I only didn't expect it to flourish in government ranks.

Also can you point me to the western nations where the wealthy pay more tax,to me it is more clear that everywhere they just pay less tax.Oh and building a house in Thailand doesn't mean you are a wealthy foreigner or are you from the opinion that there are only wealthy foreigners living in Pattaya?And by the way I'm not 70.000 baht short but I see no reason why I should pay such an extra amount for a public utility.

Of course we all can live like sheep and take the rip off like you suggest but then it will never change.

And if an extra 70.000 is no objection to you let me know and I will PM you my account number.

Edited December 30, 2009 by basjke

[Tokay]

Sorry to hear about your problems.

My only suggestion, spend your money somewhere else. F*&k this place and the incompetent criminals running it. I have a few years left here myself and them I'm out. In the meantime, I tell everyone I know who is thinking of coming here, not to come, and help them plan their vacation in another Asian country. So far I've kept 6 families and 4 friends from coming here. It doesn't take much, just a few links to some good rip-off and murder stories, along with some youtube clips of several Thais beating up a single farang, and they are sold on somewhere else.

[Tokay]

BTW... welcome to Thailand. You lose. You will always lose here. They won't allow it any other way.

[basjke]

BTW... welcome to Thailand. You lose. You will always lose here. They won't allow it any other way.

I know the odds are that I have to lose this game,anyway i will give it a try cos I'm not brought up to be a victim and so far I survived.

[Barack]

You start a thread, then get upset when people don't agree with you. You titled this thread very dramatically to get attention and you're getting it.

The point is that organised crime and corruption are alive and well in Thailand. Most people know this when they come to settle. You've obviously been a little slow to learn that. So slow infact that it wasn't until you started building a house that you found out.

Better late than never.

Back off before the wolves tear you to shreds. How can you not see that trying to fight mafia enterprises is a waste of time and dangerous in a foreign land.

Drive by gangster style shootings are reported on here from time to time. Take heed. Life can be cheap, especially when you're threatening a 70,000 baht per farang customer cash cow.

In Western nations the wealthy pay more tax. You're building a house, so immediately you're labelling yourself as a wealthy foreigner. They didn't know you were on a tight budget and an extra 70k was going to be a problem.

I don't get upset when people don't agree with me.Actually Dpolenz Satanza has first already a flaming post removed,in fact he has joined just a few hours ago and 50% of his posts have already been removed.So far regarding my reaction to his second post.

To further explain I was well aware that organized crime was alive in Thailand I only didn't expect it to flourish in government ranks.

Also can you point me to the western nations where the wealthy pay more tax,to me it is more clear that everywhere they just pay less tax.Oh and building a house in Thailand doesn't mean you are a wealthy foreigner or are you from the opinion that there are only wealthy foreigners living in Pattaya?And by the way I'm not 70.000 baht short but I see no reason why I should pay such an extra amount for a public utility.

Of course we all can live like sheep and take the rip off like you suggest but then it will never change.

And if an extra 70.000 is no objection to you let me know and I will PM you my account number.

You need to stop the sniffling and whining. You wanted the transformer in your farang name and immediatley discovered there were complications at the office. Work within the system; consider having the transformer installed under the Thai landowner's name (or company name) and maybe you will get the Thai price.

[wolf5370]

I'm sorry everyone seems to be attacking you here for giving us your story. Personally I'm grateful for it, many people will see this (hopefully) and may be wiser going in because of your misfortune and kindness in posting it.

I think Barack is right, although he was rather rude in imparting it, that its probably best to forget about the meter being in your name and pout it in a Thai name - or a company name. I presume you have a company because you are building a house and need to put it somewhere (and as we all know non-Thais can not legally own land here in their own names). You may want to leave it a few weeks or use a different office.

Good luck.

[tropo]

You start a thread, then get upset when people don't agree with you. You titled this thread very dramatically to get attention and you're getting it.

The point is that organised crime and corruption are alive and well in Thailand. Most people know this when they come to settle. You've obviously been a little slow to learn that. So slow infact that it wasn't until you started building a house that you found out.

Better late than never.

Back off before the wolves tear you to shreds. How can you not see that trying to fight mafia enterprises is a waste of time and dangerous in a foreign land.

Drive by gangster style shootings are reported on here from time to time. Take heed. Life can be cheap, especially when you're threatening a 70,000 baht per farang customer cash cow.

In Western nations the wealthy pay more tax. You're building a house, so immediately you're labelling yourself as a wealthy foreigner. They didn't know you were on a tight budget and an extra 70k was going to be a problem.

I don't get upset when people don't agree with me.Actually Dpolenz Satanza has first already a flaming post removed,in fact he has joined just a few hours ago and 50% of his posts have already been removed.So far regarding my reaction to his second post.

To further explain I was well aware that organized crime was alive in Thailand I only didn't expect it to flourish in government ranks.

Also can you point me to the western nations where the wealthy pay more tax,to me it is more clear that everywhere they just pay less tax.Oh and building a house in Thailand doesn't mean you are a wealthy foreigner or are you from the opinion that there are only wealthy foreigners living in Pattaya?And by the way I'm not 70.000 baht short but I see no reason why I should pay such an extra amount for a public utility.

Of course we all can live like sheep and take the rip off like you suggest but then it will never change.

And if an extra 70.000 is no objection to you let me know and I will PM you my account number.

I was referring to your reaction to my posting in this thread.

Wealthy people in Western nations pay more tax. The higher your income, the higher the percentage of tax you pay. The percentage goes up as your income increases. In some countries the tax goes as high as 60, even 70% tax at the highest income level....compared to zero at the lowest income level. Is that not paying extra tax if wealthy?

Building a house in Thailand doesn't mean I'm going to think you are wealthy, but the Thai people will. Are your finances limited to the money you are using to build? The Thai people would think that is just the tip of the iceberg. You're a cherry ripe for the picking.

When organised crime is charging you extra, then yes, I suggest you act like a sheep and pay up. Better a live sheep than a dead wolf. The cost of living in Thailand is pretty cheap all round, so you can save on other things.

Do you really think you have any chance of changing anything in Thailand? Save that for your home country and become a politician.

Obviously you don't have much intention to take this further and you're just having a whine, so in reality you're probably going to do the sensible thing and just live like a sheep.

[anon8]

tropo is right. I would forget about any further investigations. Clearly you are making your home here.. so stay healthy, drop this thing!

I would delete this whole topic if I was you. Nothing to be gained here and much to loose.

[timekeeper]

is it possible to have the installation carried out in the Thai name at the Thai price, then change the name to yours in 6 months or so when the dust has settled?