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[The Coder]

I have no problems with immigration (never must go there anyway)...

I am in Thailand around 10 month a year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Huh, the published info reads as follows:

"The Royal Thai Immigration Bureau, the grantor will provided member 5-year Special multiple entry tourist visa which will be automatically renewed at the end of each term. The visa can be arranged either from the Members’ home country or in Thailand immigration bureaus nation wide at no charge to the Member. However, if Member who resides in Thailand for more than 90 days continuously will have their visa endorsed and extended by the local immigration office at a fee of 1,900THB per extension."

[gerry1011]

The visa gives the opportunity to never have to leave the country (so, no "visa run").

In the case of long stays, the holders have the choice of asking an extention every three month (by appointement, no waiting queue), or to make a little trip to the border... as they wish. In case of visa run, no question is asked (you know, the famous 10.000b to show in cash).

But I guess that most of the card holders travel quite much, so it is not relevant.

[sriracha john]

We are sorry to inform you that the land on the moon is no longer included in this offer.

Sincerely CMG

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry CMG, that's a deal breaker. I was hoping to use the acreage to grow rambuttans and mangosteens..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for you interest in my offer. It is my marketing strategy to remove benefits while simultaneously increasing cost, therefore adding to the exclusivity of the offer.

CMG

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I appreciate your bold moves... and because of it, I'm sure your program should do well, particularly with the reality-challenged clientele...

Best of luck to you...

[Donno]

The deal with land is the same as before. They hold the land in their name on your behalf. So if they go belly up so does your land. So the card is bloody useless!

[Jeff Jarvis]

I don't think it's really about discounts on golf, spas or special treatment at the Airport.

It's about being connected, networking.

Being an Elite member is good for business.

[sriracha john]

Does that mean they have Elite Piss-Ups??

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The deal with land is the same as before. They hold the land in their name on your behalf. So if they go belly up so does your land. So the card is bloody useless!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is praising the program

[ovenman]

Being an Elite member is good for business.

It is certainly good for the elite card company's business!

[gerry1011]

I don't think it's really about discounts on golf, spas or special treatment at the Airport.

It's about being connected, networking.

Being an Elite member is good for business.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indeed, it is not about discounts at all, certainly not for those who can afford to put 1 million on the table only for a membership.

It is about comfort of life, trouble free stays, enjoyment and connections.

In any case, the discounts for members are calculated on top end products. For example, in hotels, the discount compared to the flat rate of a standard room is small, but, in fact, the members are offered executive suites for that price.

Airlines discounts only apply to Business and First Class or private plane and helicopters.

Concerning connections, they organised a CEO gathering during which extremely interesting contacts could be made with CEO's from around the world (and meet the Prime Minister on the same occasion). It is, of course, in the interest of Thailand to have this kind of people coming to the country (for their money, and the money of their company), but also very good for business contacts for the members themselves.

Concerning the land priviledges (which I decided not to use), the land is in fact leased to the member for 90 years (if I don't make a mistake). This particular point is not very clear at the moment, and I don't think many members would use this priviledge until it is totaly safe. But, to put a land in the name of any other thai individual, does probably not offer safer guaranties. And, most probably, Elite members would not buy cheap properties. I don't think that putting a multi million property in the name of a thai is always wise...

I do think that the Elite program is a great product for a limited number of persons.

They probably have to adapt their marketing strategy if they want to reach westerners, but the general idea of the program is good.

[sriracha john]

I do think that the Elite program is a great product for a limited number of persons.

I agree and it appears that number is around 800 or so. Their (Mr. T actually) original idea that 1,000,000 foreigners would be interested in purchasing the card was ..... well.... just plain, downright..... stupid.

[chingy_]

The deal with land is the same as before. They hold the land in their name on your behalf. So if they go belly up so does your land. So the card is bloody useless!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

TRT government love money, they will do anything to make money for themself even selling their own soul.... MR.T is in his last term, we'll never know whats gonna happen in the next four year let alone 20yrs.

as for Democrate they will never agree to this elite card deal thingy, if they won the next election, all you elite card hold, how can i say this, you're fuk, kiss your mil$ bye bye.

Edited April 27, 2005 by chingy_

[xbusman]

STREET WISE: What more can Elite Cards offer?

Published on April 27, 2005

Marketers are willing to do almost anything to ensure the success of a new product.

In marketing Thailand Elite Card, it is worth asking how much should the country be willing to compromise to tap as many foreigners as possible to expand its membership base.

When the card scheme was first announced, Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra was very upbeat about the prospects of using the scheme to promote tourism. The government went as far as to offer members the chance to buy land. Luckily, after protests, that offer was scrapped.

But with a membership fee of Bt1 million and an annual maintenance fee of Bt40,000, the card still delivers many comforts, something that will make members feel important.

One of the benefits is the cooperation with luxury hotels, which are willing to provide special packages for card members.

But given that special packages can be found anywhere, this must be less attractive than the speedy service members get when they check in at airports, with Elite officers on hand to take care of all their needs.

If a member cannot produce an ID card, they need not fear, unlike normal passengers. Another member’s guarantee can help in this case.

But the greatest airport perk is the no waiting at immigration, while Elite officers will be on hand to welcome members when they reach their destination.

Given such great comforts, its amazing Elite’s membership base is still tiny. Thailand Elite Card Co Ltd most be wondering what potential members want in return for their money, when they are already put on a higher pedestal than the majority of Thais.

Priceless, just priceless.

This article comes from the Nations online edition of April 27

Edited April 27, 2005 by xbusman

[piet pompies]

The biggest flaw in Elite card management to date has been the total lack of communication with members. Everytime members read an article in the press it has to be confirmed or denied by the management via e-mail. Maybe Gerry 1011 could also put this to the management. As for his experience with bookings, frequently Amex Centurion gets the better deal. Elite card is still handy though. Have NEVER gotten any definitive answer from anyone there regarding the land proposal, maybe other members have fared better, it would be nice to know. When we purchased the cards in 2003, our lawyer informed the agent that the structure they proposed was illegal. Shortly afterwards it proved to be so. With the right marketing and management it could be OK for the few that use it.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

STREET WISE: What more can Elite Cards offer?

Published on April 27, 2005

Marketers are willing to do almost anything to ensure the success of a new product.

In marketing Thailand Elite Card, it is worth asking how much should the country be willing to compromise to tap as many foreigners as possible to expand its membership base.

When the card scheme was first announced, Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra was very upbeat about the prospects of using the scheme to promote tourism. The government went as far as to offer members the chance to buy land. Luckily, after protests, that offer was scrapped.

But with a membership fee of Bt1 million and an annual maintenance fee of Bt40,000, the card still delivers many comforts, something that will make members feel important.

One of the benefits is the cooperation with luxury hotels, which are willing to provide special packages for card members.

But given that special packages can be found anywhere, this must be less attractive than the speedy service members get when they check in at airports, with Elite officers on hand to take care of all their needs.

If a member cannot produce an ID card, they need not fear, unlike normal passengers. Another member’s guarantee can help in this case.

But the greatest airport perk is the no waiting at immigration, while Elite officers will be on hand to welcome members when they reach their destination.

Given such great comforts, its amazing Elite’s membership base is still tiny. Thailand Elite Card Co Ltd most be wondering what potential members want in return for their money, when they are already put on a higher pedestal than the majority of Thais.

Priceless, just priceless.

This article comes from the Nations online edition of April 27

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You could almost believe that Toxin's cronies own the Nation Multimedia Group

[The Coder]

But the greatest airport perk is the no waiting at immigration, while Elite officers will be on hand to welcome members when they reach their destination.

It takes over 20 hours to get to Thailand from the USA. Stretching my legs making my way through immigration after that monster flight is not a big deal as I am out about when my (priority) luggage is out anyway so I must ask is the time savings even real? The brand new Thai Airways direct flight from USA to BKK is much more significant as it reduces a number of hours out of the trip, but ironically elite members may not be the ones to take advantage of this because it is configured with no first class seating! So while elite members are being whisked in golf carts through the airport, the average joe can already be nestled in their destination for a few hours. Oops.

[ovenman]

But the greatest airport perk is the no waiting at immigration, while Elite officers will be on hand to welcome members when they reach their destination.

I have entered Thailand at least one hundred times over the past twelve years. I don't recall ever having to wait longer than twenty minutes in the immigrations queue for any single entry, and the waiting time is usually less than ten minutes. If there really are people out there who find this excruciating waiting time so unbearable that it's worth one million baht to circumvent... hey, it's their money (well, I suppose it's no longer actually their money).

Given such great comforts, its amazing Elite’s membership base is still tiny.

Yes, amazing would be one word I would associate with this scam.

[Humphrey Bear]

The fastest I have been through Immigration was on a return from KL with my (Thai) wife. We were going to our respective checks when the guy at Thai Elite counter (who had nothing to do) called us both over and processed us 'just like that'. Almost worth buying a card, it felt so good.

But the one thing I would want, if I were prepared to invest bundles of money in LOS, would be to own my own business - 100%. Not just 49% or whatever.

In Singapore, for instance, I can register a business and have it up and running in three days, with 100% expatriate ownership. The only condition is that there has to be a local Director, acceptable to the authorities, to ensure aa degree of responsibility and respectability.

How come that here, where the degree of management skills is minuscule in comparison with Singers, I am saddled with a group of deadheads put in by my Thai partners? It is unacceptable and certainly unprofitable.

No one would invest here under present terms and conditions without some very substantial support (unwritten) from persons of influence. But without a large inward investment base, how can putative Thai managers hope to learn their trade?

Let the Elite Card change towards a BOI supported venture, allowing ownership of assets imported, repatriation of (tax-paid) profits and so on, then they might do some business. Meanwhile it allows a few japanese businessmen to use golf courses cheaply to meet each other. And they already regard Thai golf courses as being ridiculously cheap.

[gerry1011]

The deal with land is the same as before. They hold the land in their name on your behalf. So if they go belly up so does your land. So the card is bloody useless!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

TRT government love money, they will do anything to make money for themself even selling their own soul.... MR.T is in his last term, we'll never know whats gonna happen in the next four year let alone 20yrs.

as for Democrate they will never agree to this elite card deal thingy, if they won the next election, all you elite card hold, how can i say this, you're fuk, kiss your mil$ bye bye.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The very vast majority of the farangs who lost their land (with sometimes a house on top of it), as well as those who will lose their land in the future, have no Elite card. This is for sure.

It is very kind of you to warn the holders of an Elite card to take care. Thank you.

It is up to everyone to judge what is the safest solution to protect an investment. As most of you (should) know, there are other ways of protecting an investment than to buy a land in the name of TPC, ... or any other thai individual.

But, I think there are many more farangs who are at risk to lose millions with their "wife", rather than by joining this program

Concerning "kiss your mil$ bye bye"... you probably suspect that, for some people, the amount that we are speaking about is not as important as it is for others... There are quite many like that around the world... So, the fear of having a chance to lose it is greatly reduced.

Not everyone who do have a lot of money agrees to spend that much for a membership, of course. Then, no problem, there are still the other visa options available to stay here (with the troubles associated to the process).

In the case the Democrats come to power (which is unlikely to happen before a while), they will more than certainly find a nice compromise, as it is usual here.

But a change in policy could not only affect the Elite members, but also the non-immigrants, the persons holding work permits, the retirees...

The thais love money. Yes.

I am afraid that this includes the Democrates too...

Say to a Democrate "can I buy a visa one million?" I doubt he will say no.

I think that for some this program might look like unfair to those who have not enough financial comfort to afford it, reason why they criticise it so strongly, and most of the time, without having enough information about the subject.

Some of my friends struggle to stay in this country, going from one teacher job to the other. It would be very nice if life was made easier for them too, but it is not in the governement priorities at the moment. This is clear.

[gerry1011]

The biggest flaw in Elite card management to date has been the total lack of communication with members. Everytime members read an article in the press it has to be confirmed or denied by the management via e-mail. Maybe Gerry 1011 could also put this to the management. As for his experience with bookings, frequently Amex Centurion gets the better deal. Elite card is still handy though. Have NEVER gotten any definitive answer from anyone there regarding the land proposal, maybe other members have fared better, it would be nice to know. When we purchased the cards in 2003, our lawyer informed the agent that the structure they proposed was illegal. Shortly afterwards it proved to be so. With the right marketing and management it could be OK for the few that use it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is a fact, the communication between TE and the members was not optimum till now.

I was in their office last year and spoke about it with the marketing manager. She agreed that something was to be done and said that a newsletter was in their project to improve communication.

Apart from that, they agreed to help me in the organisation of an artistic event I was setting up, and perfectly assisted my guests coming over from Europe.

THIS was PRICELESS (and, by the way, it was not charged one satang).

One of the good things is that, on the new website (coming soon I hope), there will be a section for members only. This will enable the members to "advertise" some of their events, post invitations, etc... It will greatly facilitate the contacts between members. I look forward to it.

Concerning the deals of AMEX, I still use their services when I am abroad. No question about it, it is a great service too.

Concerning the land priviledges, I can't say much since I decided not to use it (as most of the members I guess).

I am also not a pro of thai laws, but if we speak about leasing, I don't see a difference between a land leased back to a member by TPC, and a land leased back by a thai individual. If it is accepted by the law to lease a land from a thai, why not from a thai company?

One more thing to say about this land subject.

Until the last elections Taksin had to compose with the Democrats. Since he is totaly in charge of the country now, he might take advantage of the situation to pass his law concerning the land priviledges.

I just look at the facts, not the morality of the law... This is another debate.

[bangkokian]

I am sure ppl who buy it have their reasons esp those with lots of money. But really, if you are a farang, you'll generally get elite treatment esp if you're well-dressed.

I know some super rich Indians I met at a luncheon were interested in the card... I think partly because they don't always get the royal treatment even when they are well-dressed..and Mr. T. doesn't like Indians, to say the least.

[sriracha john]

STREET WISE: What more can Elite Cards offer?

Published on April 27, 2005

Marketers are willing to do almost anything to ensure the success of a new product.

In marketing Thailand Elite Card, it is worth asking how much should the country be willing to compromise to tap as many foreigners as possible to expand its membership base.

When the card scheme was first announced, Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra was very upbeat about the prospects of using the scheme to promote tourism. The government went as far as to offer members the chance to buy land. Luckily, after protests, that offer was scrapped.

But with a membership fee of Bt1 million and an annual maintenance fee of Bt40,000, the card still delivers many comforts, something that will make members feel important.

One of the benefits is the cooperation with luxury hotels, which are willing to provide special packages for card members.

But given that special packages can be found anywhere, this must be less attractive than the speedy service members get when they check in at airports, with Elite officers on hand to take care of all their needs.

If a member cannot produce an ID card, they need not fear, unlike normal passengers. Another member’s guarantee can help in this case.

But the greatest airport perk is the no waiting at immigration, while Elite officers will be on hand to welcome members when they reach their destination.

Given such great comforts, its amazing Elite’s membership base is still tiny. Thailand Elite Card Co Ltd most be wondering what potential members want in return for their money, when they are already put on a higher pedestal than the majority of Thais.

Priceless, just priceless.

This article comes from the Nations online edition of April 27

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You could almost believe that Toxin's cronies own the Nation Multimedia Group

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, when I read this, it sounded much more like a "letter to the editor" from some misguided fool in the general public.... as The Nation has been at the forefront of exposing the pitfalls of the Elite Card since it's inception, as well as every other shortcoming of Mr. T.

Apparently this was written by someone on the staff identified as:

achara_d

A review of his past articles leads me to believe he's really out of step with things.

A bit of a crackpot in an otherwise good publication. As an example, he proposed a change for the historically-significant Giant Swing to be made out of stainless steel instead of wood.

The Nation certainly is not perfect, but in my estimation, it's the best available news source in Thailand for objectivity and independence.

Having said that... they may want to reconsider achara's future employment there.

Edited April 27, 2005 by sriracha john

[gerry1011]

It looks like when the posts start to be based on real facts and good analyse, the debate dies...

[sriracha john]

It looks like when the posts start to be based on real facts and good analyse, the debate dies...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds very akin to:

It looks like when the decision to obtaining an Elite Card starts to be based on real facts and good analysis (btw, sorry for changing the quote to the correct word), the interest in getting one dies.

Edited April 28, 2005 by sriracha john

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I am sure ppl who buy it have their reasons esp those with lots of money.  But really, if you are a farang, you'll generally get elite treatment esp if you're well-dressed. 

I know some super rich Indians I met at a luncheon were interested in the card... I think partly because they don't always get the royal treatment  even when they are well-dressed..and Mr. T. doesn't like Indians, to say the least.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The state of the Elite market means he'll sell 'em a card though

[thai thai]

Seems I recall reading that at the start/launch of the Card, the TAT promotional budget was 500 million baht. And they have also sold now 800 cards (they say very few were actually given away). As a tax payer, wouldn't you like to know where that 1.3 billion baht has gone...?

Well, I hear tell that a lot of it went into the pockets of all kinds of 'low people in high places'...never to be seen again. And CNN still hasn't been paid anything but lip service.

[Rumpole]

  Sorta like, yes all these benefits are available to card holders but we would much prefer that they didn't actually take advantage of any.

That's right. Empty your wallet into this barrel on arrival at the airport, and then turn right around and p*ss off again, FARANG! We don't want your white face here.

By the time this government has finished it's second term, they may just get their wish. Minus the wallet emptying, of course.

Edited April 29, 2005 by Rumpole

[ChevyColorado]

Well I just had to wade in and make a comment. There are some people that greatly benefit from the Thailand Elite programme and I am one of them. I have been a Member for well over 1 year now. Yes you do need to evaluate it very carefully and yes there are problems - although reducing in number as time passes.

The fact is THB1M is not really a lot of money for most working people - buy a Honda CRV, keep it for 3 years and you will have lost close to 1M; buy a BMW, keep it for 1 year and your loss will be about 1M. Keep one child at an International School in Bangkok - 3 years there will cost you about THB1M.

But put those things aside, the Elite programme is for the rest of your life (if it lasts that long - that is an acknowledged risk) - unfortunately the Company has now woken up and realises that a "one lump sum" lifetime payment is not a good way to manage cash flow so now there is an additional THB40k per year - and this yearly fee, had it been in force when I joined, probably would have swung the scales in the other direction and I would not have joined.

However for me the programme is great - I am a very frequent traveller and enter/leave Thailand around 50 times per year (100 trips) - take a minute and work out how much that is in free transport (I always used to use the Thai Limo service so work on THB600-700 each way each time) plus I have a visa which let's me stay in Thailand effectively forever and I never need to go to the Immigration Office. I can sell my Membership (for any amount I choose) - as long as I give the Company 10% of the current full rate. Extrapolate the THB1M forward for 20 years and do an NPV; then do the same for 30 years - have a look at it and the 1M does not look anywhere near as bad.

Yes there are risks - but even if the worst happens it is simply no worse and probably a lot better than losing it on a car - or in Thailand even a house!

[Firefan]

Chevy; so the old cards does STILL not have to pay the additional 40.000 B per year? Also if you sell it?

My main reason for ever considering such a card would be the visa. When young and not wishing to marry Etc. it is hard to obtain the long term visa.

In Cambodia one pays about $250 for a full year multiple entry visa without any hassle as to investments Etc. That migt be too liberal, but a move towards more openess rather than protectiveness will help Thailand in the long run.

It would be great if Thailand could find a middle of the road solution for people who want to stay longer. $25.000 for residency after check of funds (abroad or in Thailand) and criminal background and I would be getting in line for that. Spa treatments is really not that important

Cheers!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The Elite Card still holds no excitement for me

[Rumpole]

I recollect reading an interview with one of the original elite card management flunkies in which he stated that the purpose of the elite card was not solely for people to live here long-term or to purchase land.  Sorta like, yes all these benefits are available to card holders but we would much prefer that they didn't actually take advantage of any.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which of course is typical Thai-think. Give us your money, farang, and then **** off.

Whether the Thais like it or not, and however much the government may try to deny it to themselves, Thailand is not an "elite" anything. It is a cheap, downmarket, mass-tourist destination, also attractive to predominently male retirees because their pension funds will go a lot further than in their own countries. It is time that the TAT and other government agencies abandoned their self-delusion and realized precisely where their target market really lies. They might then discover the benefits of abandoning pie-in-the-sky "elitist" schemes, and doing something to try to shore-up the declining tourist arrivals from the market segments who actually find the country attractive. A good start might be not shutting down entertainment venues at a ridiculously early hour, directing police to refrain from raiding clubs and night-spots demanding passports and urine tests, and perhaps doing something to relax the Byzantine paper-chase for people who genuinely wish to retire in Thailand.

Of course as another poster said, it won't happen. Som num nah.

Edited July 22, 2005 by Rumpole