Thai Expat Arsinization Syndrome

[DegenFarang]

I'm going to attempt to state this as delicately as possible as this is a serious question and I don't wish to offend anybody who may suffer from TEAS or people whose loved ones or friends may have TEAS:

Over time I have noticed that a rather large proportion of expats in Thailand become irritable, cynical, angry, disagreeable and/or cranky - to put it simply, they become arse's and are not much fun to converse with or be around. I have assigned the name Thai Expat Arsinization Syndrome to this phenomenon.

What causes TEAS? Is this something that is unique to Thailand or do expats in other countries experience something similar? Is the prevalence of TEAS due to conditions in Thailand, or does it say more about the types of people who choose to live in Thailand? This may explain why not every expat acquires TEAS...

Again this is a serious topic and I hope it will be taken seriously and the root causes of TEAS discussed and debated in earnest.

Edited January 5, 2010 by DegenFarang

[true blue]

they soon get over the sympton,if they came back home especially uk,for a spell,brrrrrrrrrr

[DegenFarang]

they soon get over the sympton,if they came back home especially uk,for a spell,brrrrrrrrrr

I have actually found the opposite to be true. While people may miss Thailand once they get home, and experience a euphoric honeymoon period upon returning, I believe they take the symptoms of TEAS with them back home, and they may even get worse, with people complaining a lot and being bitter that things aren't like they are in Thailand (prices, women, weather etc).

[PhilHarries]

to put it simply, they become arse's and are not much fun to converse with or be around.

You ever thought you might be an ar5ehole? Ar5holes are gregarious so if you find you attract ar5eholes best you go look in the mirror.

An old English proverb "Birds of a feather flock together".

[DegenFarang]

to put it simply, they become arse's and are not much fun to converse with or be around.

You ever thought you might be an ar5ehole? Ar5holes are gregarious so if you find you attract ar5eholes best you go look in the mirror.

An old English proverb "Birds of a feather flock together".

I don't flock with anybody who has TEAS, but I have come across a lot of people who do. I will leave it at that.

Edit: Sorry, one friend has a pretty bad case. Thankfully he has many other redeeming qualities.

Edited January 5, 2010 by DegenFarang

[manarak]

I don't live in the LOS yet, but I think I already have a bad case of TEAS.

I'm still not even expat, so maybe what I got is AS, or ASS (Arsinization Syndrome Severe).

I think this sets in when your country's people don't let you realize your dreams, reject you or push you down.

You then do the same to your country and move to Thailand instead.

Then the ASS converts to a TEAS - the disturbance doesn't disappear, but you feel much better.

[a2396]

I really don't know. I only know two Frangs, where I live in LOS, and they are both quite OK. But, there are things that are irritants regarding living here and people will complain about them, just as they or I would, if it were something they did not like in their home country. Most of the foreigners I have encountered in Thailand are really not very friendly and are not particularly interested in conversing for whatever reason.

[slapout]

Having lived and worked in a few a.. hole producing countries, the op's description is not confined to Thailand. The general consensus to postpone/eliminate this problem was to send people on R&R at least every 3 months. Strange as it may sound to those afflicted with this problem??? Thailand was the choice for many of the people involved. 3 months seemed to be the breaking point so to speak, determined by observers and some of the actions of those not given this break. I have noticed that those long term ex pats living here seem to have mellowed upon their return from a visit to their home country. This latter is just a personal observation without any data to back it.

[caf]

Apart from Phil, the replies have been serious - which is what you hoped for. Le't wish that you get more replies to add some views on this thread.

I think frustration is one cause of TEAS. The obvious examples: Can't own land, double pricing.

One can't "retaliate" against these so we take it out in our attitudes. And I take that point from seeing an expat get very irate in Tesco over some dispute over goods. He raised land ownership, double pricing ( though that does not apply in Tesco), fake Thai smiles, lack of democracy, corruption, ...

None of it applied to whatever his problem with the store was. He just had to get it off his chest. And I can see how we all sometimes get like that. In the West we can write to our MP or local authority, in a criminal action we can get help from the police. We feel unable to do that here. I think that moves on to frustration and TEAS

I'm sure there are other causes and I hope this thread can debate them.

caf

[givenall]

This is too deep for me

[Briggsy]

Indeed, one of the symptoms of TEAS is "bastard face".

Just check out any bar or farang hangout. Spot the guy (it's usually a guy) who's been here x number of years with the expression of indignance/annoyance/anger/rage/suppressed rage permanently settled upon his features.

[robblok]

Apart from Phil, the replies have been serious - which is what you hoped for. Le't wish that you get more replies to add some views on this thread.

I think frustration is one cause of TEAS. The obvious examples: Can't own land, double pricing.

One can't "retaliate" against these so we take it out in our attitudes. And I take that point from seeing an expat get very irate in Tesco over some dispute over goods. He raised land ownership, double pricing ( though that does not apply in Tesco), fake Thai smiles, lack of democracy, corruption, ...

None of it applied to whatever his problem with the store was. He just had to get it off his chest. And I can see how we all sometimes get like that. In the West we can write to our MP or local authority, in a criminal action we can get help from the police. We feel unable to do that here. I think that moves on to frustration and TEAS

I'm sure there are other causes and I hope this thread can debate them.

caf

Nice explanation, you might be right because we have not many rights here and our position is under constant attack its hard. I must say i dont know ppl with this syndrom (other then on Thaivisa) I choose my friends wisely and they dont seem to have this. They might not like the above mentioned points and we do talk about it at times but it does not affect us like you describe.

I still love it here with its good and bad sides.

[samuijimmy]

I think the problem with many people who suffer from TEAS, is that they just don't have enough constructive things to keep themselves occupied... i.e. hobbies, etc... (speaking of those who have retired here & are not working).

They just become so bored & boring & end up propping up the bar everyday.... I find I spend very little time, if any of these people.... actually none once I realize this is how they spend each & everyday doing that!

I have a few "farang friends" who don't do this, & we do lots of things together, sharing interests...

But too. I find a number of local Thai's around me very entertaining & good to get along with... and they are not after money either... we actually do things together, but that I think stems from not living in a "bar scene area" & people are more friendly & courteous... I think that is the same the world over...

If you hang around with misery you become miserable.... cranky & disillusioned ..... & taken all the time!

Well, time to go do something constructive! The garden needs weeding! ha ha!

Edited January 6, 2010 by samuijimmy

[londonthai]

someting to do with "having off it's chest" - whether when meeting another farang in the pub or on tv.

probably similar symtoms do thai have, when abroad ..

a bit of "love-hate" relation.

also when we get older we tend to complain more - the young ones just go with their lifes

[barky]

Indeed, one of the symptoms of TEAS is "bastard face".

Just check out any bar or farang hangout. Spot the guy (it's usually a guy) who's been here x number of years with the expression of indignance/annoyance/anger/rage/suppressed rage permanently settled upon his features.

Briggsy, I'm sorry to say that I feel I have fallen into the category you have so well described.

I am aware of it. I don't like it. In fact it's a bit of an effort at times because it's actually totally against my real character. And I feel slowly overtime it may become pemanent.

There is mainly one reason for it, and that is to ensure people leave me alone. I will innitiate the approach if I want. Contact will be made on my grounds. For examptle, I only talk to Thais outside of my immediate family/work/interest circles only on a needs basis.

I have found that familiarity does in fact breed contempt or an opportunity to be ripped off or give Thais an opportunity to say something inappropriate to me.

It's my barrier, my protection. And, it works.

As I said I don't particularly like it, but it's the way it must be in this part of the world.

[caf]

Interesting developments from other posters.

Yes older people do tend to complain more, in all countries I would think. And when old of course they have time on their hands and they make complaining comments.

i did not want to suggest it was a Thaivisa syndrome in my last post. As I wanted not to encourage the flamers and apologists. Anyway, <URL Automatically Removed> is probably worse.

But yes TEAS is more common in forums and bars.

My farang friends outside the forum scene are different and have largely learnt to live with the problems and make fewer complaints. But the frustrations are still there, but more unvoiced.

I hope this is seen as a positive post

caf

[robblok]

Interesting developments from other posters.

Yes older people do tend to complain more, in all countries I would think. And when old of course they have time on their hands and they make complaining comments.

i did not want to suggest it was a Thaivisa syndrome in my last post. As I wanted not to encourage the flamers and apologists. Anyway, <URL Automatically Removed> is probably worse.

But yes TEAS is more common in forums and bars.

My farang friends outside the forum scene are different and have largely learnt to live with the problems and make fewer complaints. But the frustrations are still there, but more unvoiced.

I hope this is seen as a positive post

caf

I dont complain much outside a forum either its just easy to complain here and people take things more into extreme and add a few things to it.

Sure the frustration it there and will always be there.

[DegenFarang]

Indeed, one of the symptoms of TEAS is "bastard face".

Just check out any bar or farang hangout. Spot the guy (it's usually a guy) who's been here x number of years with the expression of indignance/annoyance/anger/rage/suppressed rage permanently settled upon his features.

Briggsy, I'm sorry to say that I feel I have fallen into the category you have so well described.

I am aware of it. I don't like it. In fact it's a bit of an effort at times because it's actually totally against my real character. And I feel slowly overtime it may become pemanent.

There is mainly one reason for it, and that is to ensure people leave me alone. I will innitiate the approach if I want. Contact will be made on my grounds. For examptle, I only talk to Thais outside of my immediate family/work/interest circles only on a needs basis.

I have found that familiarity does in fact breed contempt or an opportunity to be ripped off or give Thais an opportunity to say something inappropriate to me.

It's my barrier, my protection. And, it works.

As I said I don't particularly like it, but it's the way it must be in this part of the world.

I do this when I go to beer-bars/gogo bars - as I know every girl that comes up to me just wants to ask me the same series of stupid questions and get me to buy them drinks and take them home. I prefer to skip the whole process and only speak to who I want.

Are you saying that is also what you do? Or you do this everywhere in Thailand?

If you do it everywhere I think you may be being a bit too cynical and possibly/probably missing out on a lot of genuine relationships and/or experiences by closing yourself off to everybody. Can you give some specific examples of negative things that can happen from being pleasant to non-bar/tout type people?

[sgunn65]

I seem to have the opposite. When I arrived here over 2 years ago I quickly went down with TEAS. Living in a Thai area of Bkk and not speaking the language were the main causes as well as expecting everything to work the same as back home.

After 6 months of major TEAS I opened my business and found that just as TEAS inducing but I then started taking a THai medicine that was slow acting but has almost completely cured me. I still have a bit of a whinge now and again but in the main I have learnt to love it here.

Ask your teerak to get you some of this medicine. I dont know the English name for it but the Thai's call it Mai Ben Rai, and it is available everywhere. It is best taken daily with weekly injections of Thai language lessons. It worked for me.

[Meridian007]

I think Caf hit the nail on the head. I'm not really negative in real life, but I do find myself occasionally feeling angry for no reason.

I think the lack of power to stand up for oneself here might be the cause. I know that the litigiousness nature of western society is one of it's ills, but having the legal power to fight back against perceived wrongs is a strong enabling force.

Having to spend so much (money and energy) for the honour of living here, where the job options and freedoms I can enjoy are restricted gets just as frustrating as the other restrictions that we all tried to leave behind in our home countries. Most of the time I can just mai pen rai it away, but sometimes it does rankle.

[jellymeister]

I'm calling troll on this one.....

If not, live and let live, don't worry too much about others......

[IanForbes]

My brother has that "syndrome" and he hasn't left Vancouver, BC in 40 years. It's all about personal choices. You can choose to be miserable or choose to be happy. It's as simple as that. I've heard all the complainers... It's too cold, it's too hot, I'm too old to do that (even though I'm 20 years older and still doing it), it costs too much, it's too dangerous, I don't like traveling, etc, etc.

[IanForbes]

I'm calling troll on this one.....

If not, live and let live, don't worry too much about others......

Nothing wrong with a good "troll" if people respond in a positive manner. It beats reading a continuous bunch of questions of which many could be answered by a simple research.

[jellymeister]

I'm calling troll on this one.....

If not, live and let live, don't worry too much about others......

Nothing wrong with a good "troll" if people respond in a positive manner. It beats reading a continuous bunch of questions of which many could be answered by a simple research.

well, it is cheaper entertainment than True Visions/UBC....I guess you get what you pay for!

Edited January 6, 2010 by jellymeister

[barky]

Indeed, one of the symptoms of TEAS is "bastard face".

Just check out any bar or farang hangout. Spot the guy (it's usually a guy) who's been here x number of years with the expression of indignance/annoyance/anger/rage/suppressed rage permanently settled upon his features.

Briggsy, I'm sorry to say that I feel I have fallen into the category you have so well described.

I am aware of it. I don't like it. In fact it's a bit of an effort at times because it's actually totally against my real character. And I feel slowly overtime it may become pemanent.

There is mainly one reason for it, and that is to ensure people leave me alone. I will innitiate the approach if I want. Contact will be made on my grounds. For examptle, I only talk to Thais outside of my immediate family/work/interest circles only on a needs basis.

I have found that familiarity does in fact breed contempt or an opportunity to be ripped off or give Thais an opportunity to say something inappropriate to me.

It's my barrier, my protection. And, it works.

As I said I don't particularly like it, but it's the way it must be in this part of the world.

I do this when I go to beer-bars/gogo bars - as I know every girl that comes up to me just wants to ask me the same series of stupid questions and get me to buy them drinks and take them home. I prefer to skip the whole process and only speak to who I want.

Are you saying that is also what you do? Or you do this everywhere in Thailand?

If you do it everywhere I think you may be being a bit too cynical and possibly/probably missing out on a lot of genuine relationships and/or experiences by closing yourself off to everybody. Can you give some specific examples of negative things that can happen from being pleasant to non-bar/tout type people?

DF, I rarely go to bars in general and I haven't been inside a go-go bar for about three years. I tend to find that I get asked the same dumb stupid sterotyped questions from most Thais no matter their background. And, I have to tell you my circle of Thai aquaintances are from the upper end of the educated/professional society. It's not that I believe Thais in the main mean any harm by their string of questioning, they just, in the main, sorely lack worldly thinking, wide general knowledge and have a fixed mindset about westeners and a small dose of PC wouldn't go astray either. Their line of questioning and reasoning is just so juvenile and predictable.

A case in point, on a recent business trip to Australia with a large group of Thai professionals, one took a photo of a busker at Flinders Street station saying he wanted evidence to show his friends and family that there are poor people in Australia. &lt;deleted&gt;?

I'm sorry with this kind of thinking in the society, I can be forgiven to ridgedly control who I want to have as close friends and confidants.

[andyww]

I suffer from this problem but in reverse. I get it when I go back to the UK. Coming to Thailand it completely disappears again, a feeling of freedom takes over.

I have one friend who does suffer from this big-time when in Thailand. There are two reasons for this, he is by nature a grumpy sod anyway and also he is completely bored out of his mind, retired, no interests at all. He also cheats on his wife in the bars which just adds to the problem.

[MikeyIdea]

Let's see how many posts it takes before bitter internet farangs hijack this thread with disrespectful posts, throwing their hatred around to satisfy their own inner turmoil…

OP, I think you are absolutely right about some westerners, but certainly not all. What I write below apply to SOME. Now, hopefully, I can continue to enjoy reading this thread without seeing personal attacks and disrespectful posts that moderators generally ignore for revenue purposes… Maybe, for once, the bitter and the haters, the arsinists can tone down a bit.

This is not a post about what is "right" or "wrong" and I deliberately leave out the reasons for why one way or another is superior… Different people have different values and that makes that kind of discussion a pretty useless exercise, childish even. I deliberately write this in a somewhat cynical and sarcastic way, the humour is certain to be totally lost on some, and perhaps appreciated by some. I am pretty content in life for the moment so I am not too concerned if people think I am right or wrong…. Enjoy or Hate as per personal preference

From my experience, the Arsinization syndrome is not limited to Thailand at all; it applies to foreigners in many countries. It can even apply to people who never leave their birth town. The root cause is a state of mind, not geographical location. I like the word Arsinization by the way, great word

Why indeed, do some westerners coming to Thailand get irritable, cynical, angry, disagreeable and/or cranky and especially bitter…? This mental state seems to attract some westerners like shi_t attract flies. Do they enter this state willingly? Are they aware of their state?

Many westerners are like a fish out of water here in Thailand. They get frustrated because they don't understand, because people around them don't see things that they see as important with the same importance (and often not important at all). Thai's are not paranoid the way westerners have been taught to be. Westerners have been taught critical thinking and get irritated when the Thai's don't even see what irritates the honourable farang. The farang gets even more irritated when they cannot get the other person to appreciate the superiority of his thinking, or see the problem even. Even logic and common sense work differently in Thailand adding to the problem. Things are not being done like they were back home (which obviously must be superior) and attempts to get them done that way fail miserably. Frustration is quick to come. The vicious circle is in progress and g forces are getting close to the bitter level…

In times of inner turmoil, the superior farang often puts even more emphasis on principles, which in turn puts him even more in conflict with Thai values and society, where of course practicality rules and principles have little value. Acceptance of things being what they are is not an option and suggestions that it would be better to do so irritate the farang even more. Now firmly anchored in the negative state, the farang looks for what he wants to see, and he can see whatever he considers to be bad in Thailand with intense clarity. The arrogance, superiority complex, ignorance and self confidence are reaching new levels to match the strength of the negative feelings spinning around. Frustration gets difficult to contain, we have an unstable, cantankerous and quarrelsome farang on our hands, a twisted and bitter farang.

Fortunately, only some reach this extreme level and there are many ways it can end. Some crash down realising that they are nothing else than the same person they have always been, some stay bitter until the bitter end, some are almost unaffected in the first place, and many others simply (more or less) "get over it". Some see that as personal development and that is obviously looked down on by those who never were able to achieve it. It's like a love-hate struggle and severity of symptoms and cure is much depending on the intensity and which one that is dominant. There is no one solution to "getting over it", there are many components helping; personality is a key part, flexibility, partly adapting, partly accepting, partly ignoring, ability to feel content and many more all play a part

Enjoy or hate my post, I couldn't care less which you do

Michael

Edited January 6, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[TheJoker12]

This is a topic that gets posted every other day.

[geriatrickid]

wowzies. A thread with truthful, albeit discomforting painful statements. I sort of feel better having read this. The Forbes observation is me. It's something my dad would tell me for being a negative person. I say, it's to be prepared for the worst and not get caught in a hardspot, but it's a trade off aint it? You give up happiness for security, or at least a sense of security, when the reality is that you aren't that much safer and are a heck of a lot unhappier.

My brother has that "syndrome" and he hasn't left Vancouver, BC in 40 years. It's all about personal choices. You can choose to be miserable or choose to be happy. It's as simple as that. I've heard all the complainers... It's too cold, it's too hot, I'm too old to do that (even though I'm 20 years older and still doing it), it costs too much, it's too dangerous, I don't like traveling, etc, etc.

You know Barky's comments about being sort of to yourself and introverted when having to mingle or deal with others, well I'm like Barky. I am just so overcome with the frustrations of having to deal with nothing issues that become obstacles and irritants etc. I am fed up of trying to explain simple concepts to clueless automatons that don't really give a &lt;deleted&gt; and that don't know any better. It's a stomach churning afternoon as I try and explain the budgeting process to someone that has a harebrained idea. You want to take this alleged university graduate and smack his head against the wall because of the complete absence of common business sense. No need for financial projecions, no need for site assessments, no need for R&D, no need for cost benefit analysis, let's just go spend a few million baht and wait for the results....... After you deal with this for while you want to explode, to just go on a smackdown rampage.

This thread comes up at an opportune time because it just so happens I am sort of in the doghouse now with someone going home to mother and staying an extra day instead of the usual one. (Not that I care, since it means I can go out.) I am seen as always seeing bad, thinking bad and reading bad. I tried to show the articles in here and the comments and said, please read and you will understand why I think this way. No, was the answer, Why do I need to read bad things. Argh, read, so you will understand you dimwit. (except I don't say dimwit because that produces tears then rage and then I am really in trouble.)

I reckon the Forbes advice is one that will leave a man happier and healthier and so I'm going to try and follow it. That and lose some weight in the next two months.

[caf]

The topic is "What causes TEAS", but to answer some points raised.

I agree whole heartedly with Ian forbes, try to be positive and not negative, practice Maebhen rai.

We can always try to be positive from the moment we wake each day. Good advice, Ian. I'm with you on that.

But there are good and bad aspects of MaeBhen Rai. Why get upset about the little aggravations of living here that you can not change ( and neither for the moment can the Thais either )?

But is it Maebhenrai when a tourist is scammed, when a French couple are attacked for parking in a public area.?

A better example, not involving expats. Is it Maebhenrai when a young hi-so with connections ploughs into a bus queue and kills people and avoids legal proceedings and punishment. In the west we see that as wrong. But maebhenrai at its very strongest here can prevail. The victims can not be brought back to life, the families have been compensated. It is important that noone loses face. Compromises will be reached.

It is difficult I think for a Western mind to comprehend these concepts fully. I still struggle even when I have Thais explain their viewpoints to me.One would have to be God to really understand. And God might have difficulty unless he were Thai.

caf