One Guy's Effort To Learn Thai In 8 Weeks

[LivinLOS]

Just skimmed through some of the end of the thread but heres something thats confusing me..

Without going and digging quotes one constant theme of IPG's posts is 'the thing I am taking away from this is Thai is no harder to learn than any other language' and that theres nothing significantly difficult about Thai or learning Thai etc ?? That a fair summation ??

Then why is it, someone whose usually 'fluent in 3 months' is on very very reduced basics of phrasebook 101 type language ?? I thought the 'one thing to take away was'.. That it isnt any harder to learn ??

[Parvis]

LivingLOS

I believe there are those who exaggerate how difficult Thai is and there are those who want to show off how much they (think) they can achieve in 8 weeks.

My own personal experience with other (european) languages has been that it typically took me 6 months until I was "fairly" fluent and certainly was able to read. Once I was able to read my knowledge of the language "snowballed" (critical mass) - since I was an avid reader.

My experience with the Thai language has been: In the beginning (3.5 years ago) I tried briefly by taking a one on one course. This school did not use Thai script - I was not impressed and I did not continue. Like many - if not most - "farangs", I had no real need nor incentive to speak Thai. I picked up "some" Thai along the way - but I just was not able to learn much by "osmosis".

In October 2009 - I finally got off my ???? to restart Thai learning more "intensely" (I actually study). I now "aim" to be quite fluent within 8 months. "The jury is still out" - but I am making progress.

Edited March 5, 2010 by Parvis

[mynextgig]

I have been following this thread from the beginning but haven't replied yet because I did want to be either too critical nor too positive.

Being too critical could be seen as looking down at your abilities and being too positive could be seen as looking down at the abilities of others.

It's rather hard to tell at what level you are.

We have seen you in a video explaining the tones (which was a nice try, but I wouldn't advice any Thai language student to study the tones with this video).

In a second video we saw you saying a few numbers and a few sentences that seem come out of a guidebook. There was no real interaction, no real conversation. We also didn't see you reading Thai.

Before I travel to another country I usually learn to pronounce the numbers in the local language (on the airplane). I learn how to say "how much?", "agreed", "can you give a reduction?", "hello", "welcome", "goodbye" and some other very basic sentences. I use a guidebook and if possible some mp3 files. I can't tell from the video if this is also what you did.

If you really spent only 5 to 10 hours studying Thai I have to say you did "ok" until "good".

But for a polyglot that stayed 2 months in Thailand with website called "fluent in 3 months" and with very high ambitions, the results you've shown us are rather limited or maybe even disappointing.

I could understand about 70% of your video, not too bad. But it was very, very "simple" Thai (all out of lesson 1 or 2 of any Thai language book or out of a guidebook).

It might be possible that your Thai language skills are better than what we've seen in the video... again it's hard to say.

Anyway, goodluck with your Thai language study. I hope you'll go on with it. It's a beautiful language.

I like Kris have been watching this from the sidelines for the very same reasons.

I think the OP either underestimated the task he set about, or didnt have the time to dedicate to this but in my opinion, anyone that put dedicated focus on learning key phrases in an 8 week period could get to this level.

As per many other posts, the phrases used are very basic guide book phrases, and are not spoken like this in colloquial Thai.

The biggest flaw for me was the lack of demonstrable comprehension, the only phrases spoken by the Thai's he interacted with were numbers and the exception of the word FANTA which is pretty easily associated with ส้มน้ำ.

I think anyone that has spent time learning and speaking Thai will agree that the hardest part of conversational skills is comprehension and simply learning scripted sentences will cut short your attempts at engaging in conversation pretty quickly.

Sorry Benny, i think based on your intial claims, you bit off more than you can chew here.

[RickBradford]

I think the OP either underestimated the task he set about

I'm sure he did, and he dodged a major bullet by not going in for the reading test he initially promised.

Thai is like English in that very often you have to encounter a word before you know how to pronounce it -- in English this is demonstrated by the famous string of words: cough, rough, bough, through.

Even when you have skimmed a Thai grammar in five hours and memorized the 44 consonants and what-not, that is not going to help you pronounce even common words like เศรษฐกิจ or เยาวชน. not to mention words like แวววาว, which took me several minutes to work out it wasn't a typo.

He didn't hit his speaking marks, and didn't attempt his reading goal, but I hope that he won't be put off by his failure (unlikely for a guy with such an excellent resilient attitude) and that some day he will come back with a renewed respect for this fascinating and rich language.

[Parvis]

Underpromise and overdeliver is the "secret" of gaining a reputation that one's word can be relied on. He did the opposite - probably due to a lack of good judgement - also known as "overconfidence in yourself".

He also did not appear to use any method that can increase short term absorption - such as "Mapping" - maybe because of the lack of knowing about it.

[SoftWater]

Underpromise and overdeliver is the "secret" of gaining a reputation that one's word can be relied on.

Indeed! Totally off-topic, I know, but I was taught this as a youngster in retail bookselling and have never forgotten it. Unlike most of its competitors who are now long out of business, the company that taught me this policy went from unknown independent to where it is now, the market leader.

Nice to see the idea is still out there and hasn't been forgotten by some in this 'go-for-the-quick-buck-there's-always-another-sucker-who'll-walk-through-the-door' world.

Sw

[Parvis]

SW - totally off subject - absolutely. I just enjoy the psychological aspect of communication - learning etc etc etc.

For instance - Look at the "slogans" a certain poster - effective advertising? - probably for many. Does it describe the individual? - Absolutely - but no-more off subject. I think this thread is coming to an end - anyhow.

Edited March 5, 2010 by Parvis

[bhoydy]

C. Learning the tone rules can be simplified, largely by recognizing that you only need to learn the high and middle class consonants.

Mmm that's a new one to me, can someone explain to me why you wouldn't need to learn the low class consonants? It makes no difference now as i have learned them but would be interested to know why you wouldn't need to learn them.

[RickBradford]

I think his point is that if you know the High and Middle consonants, then any consonant which you haven't categorised must by definition be a Low consonant.

It's a semantic point rather than a practical one, because if you see a consonant and say "Is that High? No. is that Middle? No. Then it must be Low", you are in effect learning the Low consonants.

[SimonN]

Mmm that's a new one to me, can someone explain to me why you wouldn't need to learn the low class consonants?

If you've learnt the high and middle class consonants, the remaining consonants will be low class (thus no need to learn them).

Edit: Oops, sorry, Rick. I didn't see your post above!

Edited March 6, 2010 by SimonN

[SoftWater]

I think his point is that if you know the High and Middle consonants, then any consonant which you haven't categorised must by definition be a Low consonant.

It's a semantic point rather than a practical one, because if you see a consonant and say "Is that High? No. is that Middle? No. Then it must be Low", you are in effect learning the Low consonants.

You are indeed learning the class of ALL the consonants by only memorizing the middle and high, and not by doing any extra memorization of the larger and more diverse group of low class consonants. People who do the extra work of memorizing the low class consonants (say through a spaced repetition program or flash cards) are doing more work than they need to. That's why, on the contrary, it is a practical tip and not a semantic trick.

(A semantic trick would be one in which the work was the same but described in different ways.)

Edited March 6, 2010 by SoftWater

[bhoydy]

That's an interesting and valid point. Mmm wish i had known that before, would have saved a lot of time. I will pass it onto tone learners that i know and look to see what the differences are. I can't see any disadvantages of learning that way either, are there any?

[SoftWater]

(sorry, please ignore. changed my mind about this post!)

Edited March 6, 2010 by SoftWater

[kokesaat]

"if you see a consonant and say "Is that High? No. is that Middle? No. Then it must be Low"

Some people eat all their veggies first, then their meat; or their ice-cream before the cherry. The end result is always the same. After failing with a variety of other strategies to learn the consonants, the one above is the one that worked for me.

[bramds]

Anyone in his twenties calling himself a polyglot better prove he is up to it.

I myself am in my twenties and speak and write four languages fluently.

My way of learning Thai is talking to people, I don't use any books.

Reading and writing will come when my speaking is at a sufficient level.

In my opinion, if you know how to say hello and how are you in any language, you don't know the language.

Languages are about a lot more than this. Apparently some people don't understand this and go bragging they speak 40 languages and can even learn a new one every three months.

I think this whole mission of our Irish friend shows a lot of disrespect towards linguists who take their jobs seriously.

[NADTATIDA1]

Polyglot?? i have followed your time here trying to learn Thai in 8 weeks,which was never going to happen the way you have tried.if it was solely about effort i would still have failed you.

I honestly learnt more Thai living in a village with the natives for a month than you learnt in your sorry effort of 2 months.

Also your tonal video was awful and your final video i would expect better from a 12 year old who had been here a couple of weeks.

FAIL.

Always remember to learn a language of any country, first you have to learn the culture in depth... and you never tried.

Edited March 6, 2010 by NADTATIDA1

[jukapot]

Is the irishpolyglot really Mr Bean's son ?

Bramdis - You are so right, I learned Lao at the age of 27 by practicing with the people in the office and spoke it 50 % of the time. Even though Lao is a much easier language to learn it took two years for me to get a speaking rating of 3. Few Americans in Vientiane achieved that grade. Those station in small field stations did much better in a shorter period. But I don't recall any one older than 35 make learn more than a few mispronounced words..

I was surprised there was no appeal for money and he left me wondering where does a young man get the income to travel the world? Also, I wonder, when he is 71, will he still be able to speak Thai as well asI now speak Lao, or think I do. My Lao friends frequently remind me than I can speak Lao - but no one can understand me!

Bramdis, i appreciate your posting. Thanks.

[tombkk]

[..]I think this whole mission of our Irish friend shows a lot of disrespect towards linguists who take their jobs seriously.

And here is a young farang guy who can really speak Thai, after only three years:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLRKvqKrgao

[leah]

There are some discussions/arguments going on now between Benny the Irish Polyglot and linguist Steve Kaufmann, mostly about topics touched on here - whether or not it really is possible to learn a language fluently in 3 months, whether enthusiasm and talking is all it takes, etc.

http://thelinguist.blogs.com/how_to_learn_...a-language.html

http://thelinguist.blogs.com/how_to_learn_...s-and-wine.html

[kriswillems]

I've just read on Benny's blog that after his ".......success..." (he gives himself a score of 4 out of 5) with the Thai language, he's now planning to write a book about his language learning method and sell it.

Goodluck Benny! Hope your book will be just as good as your Thai.

[Parvis]

I've just read on Benny's blog that after his ".......success..." (he gives himself a score of 4 out of 5) with the Thai language, he's now planning to write a book about his language learning method and sell it.

Goodluck Benny! Hope your book will be just as good as your Thai.

"A genius in his own mind"

[thaigold]

This person is either a savant or has in IQ above Hawkins. It is absolutely impossible for a European to become even marginally fluent in Thai in 8-weeks. Again, impossible.

Many readers want proof that this 8-week wonder has never before in his life been exposed to non-Latin / Asian languages.

Edited March 19, 2010 by thaigold

[Rikker]

I'm not sure you read the whole thread, thaigold. I think his final video shows that he hasn't been exposed to them before, and his actual progress with the language was rather modest and quite achievable for the average person.

Also, to be fair, he awarded himself 4 out of 5 stars compared to his original goals (perhaps a bit generous) -- he didn't claim 4 out of 5 for overall Thai language ability. That would be preposterous. He's still somewhere around a 1 out of 1008 overall. ;P

[loong]

Thaigold,

To be fair, this guy never claimed that he would achieve fluency in 8 weeks. He did set out his goals at the beginning....

Learn to read Thai and be able to pronounce the 5 tones correctly

Read a Thai passage (that he has never seen before) to several Thai people so that they can understand it.

Speak basic to lower intermediate Thai

It is very difficult to hear him on the video, but it is quite obvious that he had no previous exposure to Asian languages.

He actually only speaks for a total of about 15 seconds on the video and most of that is lost in the background noise.

From what I can make out, his pronounciation is not too bad. He gets the tones wrong with Bangkok กรุงเทพ, Vegetable fried rice ข้าวผัดผัก, orange ส้ม etc. When he says 600 Baht?, he makes the common mistake of using the Farang question tone instead of a question particle.

As I posted earlier, I had my girlfriend listen without watching the video and she could only pick out a few words. She had no idea what he was saying.

At the sunglasses stall he actually speaks English when he says "No no no 200 Baht"

So how did he do with his original goals?

Learn to read Thai and be able to pronounce the 5 tones correctly - He got the tones wrong at least half the time

Read a Thai passage - He did not attempt it

Speak basic to lower intermediate Thai - A few sentences from a phrasebook is not basic Thai

If he had actually shown that he was able to read some Thai, I would have possibly been impressed, but his achievements are not exceptional and no more than the average tourist would pick up on holiday.

4 out of 5 stars

[Chonburiram]

OK everyone. Here it is!

http://www.fluentin3months.com/say-something/

Go easy on me

, ... I hope you can learn "smiley" as fast as Thai...

[Tod Daniels]

Okay, not to mince words. BUT. ..

HE TOTALLY BITES in speaking anything more than "2-word-tourist-thai" Something you can learn out of a tour book....

Sorry but that's what the thais who live on my street said. And last time I checked, they were THAI , not some wanna-b-thai foreigner who hoped thais could understand his attempt at trying to speak thai. . ..

That's AFTER I took what he spoke outside to my Soi, and let the 'real' thais listen to it.

He sucked ass in BOTH his pronunciation, and in he enunciation.

I give him a 1.5 out of 5

Yep, he is a true polyglot; (NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!)

[HappyInCM]

confidence is great for learning languages, but blindly rating himself a 4/5 when his Thai is well below what an average person could achieve with multiple takes and a bi-lingual friend coaching them (on the video at least) means any self assemsent from you is useless in any of the languages you "speak".

I will optimisitically say Benny is just so full of himself that he doesn't realize how off his assesment is; this explains the ease of achieving fluency in any language in just 3 months. As has been said before, fluency is a very, very subjective term.

[Parvis]

Confidence should be a "deep-seated" believe in your ability to perform a difficult tusk. Confidence should be a positive motivator "to do". When confidence appears to be just a boisterous remark to impress those around you - it has no foundation - it is just a character flaw.

His agenda was "self promotion" and at least on this forum - he failed there too.

He can now use this experience to gain insight into his failings or just reject criticism "to save face" and continue his "braggadocio" ways.

[sanook2me]

Wow...what a waste of my time reading that 8 pages...

it started off looking great...here is a dynamic person who maybe able to offer some new style or different self help techniques in learning a language.

Sorry to say..that video was awful...

Any phrase book can give you...numbers, fruit and thanks.....

I thought his pronunciation was shocking and couldn't get some of it...

It sounds like he says "krungtere" but granted the sound isn't very clear..

Total shocking and cringe worthy...don't think there's any reason to donate to his site....what have i learnt from it..

I once worked with a very self assured Brazilian girl who always stated "i can speak over 6 languages" but she was shocking whenever someone who could

speak one of her languages spoke to her she couldn't answer or communicate..then she would just go on a long rant in English and drop some Brazilian/Portugese slang words in too make it sound good...

Learning and speaking a phrase is great if it helps you and that is all it appears mr polyglot has done...

Jane if you're reading this...you and the irishpolyglot should get together !

[Murf]

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