New Article On Child Custody

[Mario2008]

There is a new article on custody of children in Thailand, which can be found here:

http://www.thailawonline.com/en/family/chi...tody-of-a-child

I think it answers a lot of questions and have entered it in the pinned topic on Thai family law:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Family-Law-t313877.html

[MikeyIdea]

I think I spot a miscommunication in the page. Section 2. Thai Law

The link State: According to section 1546 of CCCT, when a child is born and the mother is NOT married to the father, the father has no LEGAL RIGHTS on the child. Only the mother has rights (and obligations) on the child.

Section 1546 of CCCT state: A child born of a woman who is not married to a man is deemed to be the legitimate child of such woman.

But section 1547 state: A child born of the parents who are not married to each other is legitimate by the subsequent marriage of the parents, or by the registration made on application by the father, or by a judgment of the Court.

The "or by the registration made on application by the father" means as we know that the father is the one doing the registration of the birth. This is one other way of legitimizing the child that the article is not considering.

I have talked to 2 different amphurs in Bangkok about this and one officers' face was a total question mark, the other one knew the law and agreed that my understanding was correct… I have seen one post here at ThaiVisa where someone stated that one Immigration office did not accept the father registering birth himself as legally binding.

A second thing…

I think the article is good but it does not clear everything. I understand from reading the article that having petitioned the court to legitimate your child does indeed give you parental powers but this is in conflict with what I previously have heard. I have always heard that going to court to get recognized as father with shared custody is a 2 step process: 1) request legitimization or your child (having you child legally recognised as yours) 2) request custody (this I understand as request parental powers). Which is correct?

What about a father who waits until the child is 7 years old and then let's amphur legitimate the child? Amphur do stamp and hand over a legal legitimization certificate. Tabien rapp lang bott – certification guarantee child – Child Certification Register the certified true translation says. I have one but it wasn't a court doing it and that is in conflict with section 1547. Could that be a future issue?

I have always understood it as that legalizing the child at amphur recognises me as a father but does not also give me parental powers (custody). On the other hand, I have specifically asked at the amphur and the officer there confirms that I can come with the legitimization certificate (bai rapp long bott) that amphur issued (and birth certificate) and can change residence of my daughter – but only people with parental powers can decide residence for the child… I'm a bit confused here… Can someone shine some light on my overloaded brain?

Section 1566(6) can be used to get parental powers without going to court

Section 1566 A child is subject to parental power as long as he is not sui juris. The parental power is exercised by the father or the mother in any of the following cases; …(6) the father and mother have come to such agreement as provided by the law that it can be made.

What is the catch? It looks so easy, Write an agreement that the mother agrees to (witnessed etc) and the father has parental powers = custody according to agreement. It can't be that easy in Thailand Can it maybe not be registered and updated into amphurs computers without court intervention maybe. No one knows except the one who has the paper?

Why does the article not mention the amphur path? Is it because there is a limitation with it or because it is too easy for anyone to do?

Thankful for input

Michael

Edited January 8, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[Mario2008]

Section 1566(6) can be used to get parental powers without going to court

Section 1566 A child is subject to parental power as long as he is not sui juris. The parental power is exercised by the father or the mother in any of the following cases; …(6) the father and mother have come to such agreement as provided by the law that it can be made.

I don't think it can be used to get parental powers, only to relinquish them and giving the other parent sole custody.

I have always understood it as that legalizing the child at amphur recognises me as a father but does not also give me parental powers (custody). On the other hand, I have specifically asked at the amphur and the officer there confirms that I can come with the legitimization certificate (bai rapp long bott) that amphur issued (and birth certificate) and can change residence of my daughter – but only people with parental powers can decide residence for the child… I'm a bit confused here… Can someone shine some light on my overloaded brain? smile.gif

I think that is more a question of how well the procedures are in checking if you have indeed custody.

[NADTATIDA1]

They really enjoy moving the goalposts don"t they!!

Thanks for the imformation.

[ThaiLawOnline]

We started to write this article in December and it isn't completed yet. Sorry about that.

We will add supreme Court judgments this week and finalize this article in few days, including spelling!

It will be completed by Friday, 15 Jan 2010.

It was clearly written at the beginning UNDER CONSTRUCTION! We closed between Christmas and New year...

Everything with the amphur is complicated and each of these offices have their rules.

I can confirm you that, we do this every week...

There IS a section about the registration at the amphur. That is a small one but we need to double check some info on that. Information is very confusion from all sources on that point. Even from Thai lawyers... More for officers at local registration offices...

Edited January 10, 2010 by Isaanlawyers

[MikeyIdea]

My apologies Isaanlawyers, I should also have commented that the article is still under construction in my post

มาตรา 1566 บุตรซึ่งยังไม่บรรลุนิติภาวะต้องอยู่ใต้อำนาจปกครองของบิดามารดา อำนาจปกครองอยู่กับบิดาหรือมารดาในกรณีดังต่อไปนี้ (6) บิดาและมารดาตกลงกันตามที่มีกฎหมายบัญญัติไว้ให้ตกลงกันได้

Section 1566(6) is very interesting, may I ask to add some info on that

[ThaiLawOnline]

Article is now completed (it's never completed by we must put a stop somewhere!)

We added supreme Court judgments and other stuff. You might find info about 1566 in the Supreme Court judgment 4990/2537.

We believe it's the most complete in English about custody of children under Thai Law.

[Mario2008]

Very usefull article, but it opens up the question if the unmarreid father registers the baby himself at the amphur is considered a legitimisation of the child or not.

[ThaiLawOnline]

Very usefull article, but it opens up the question if the unmarreid father registers the baby himself at the amphur is considered a legitimisation of the child or not.

Read carefully, it's written.

==========

Exception Two is more complex: Both parents must consent that the father is the legitimate father and the local authorities (Amphur or Khet in Bangkok) will normally require the child to be old enough to understand and accept this situation.

In Thailand, each registration office is different and they often do not apply the same rules. However, they will normally legalize the father ONLY when the child is over 7 years-old, able to sign his name, able to consent, and all parties will have to give their consent to the local registration office.

If the child is younger and there is an attempt to register the father's rights at the amphur, the applicant is often told to get a judgment from the Court before it will be possible to legalize the rights of a father. After a Court decision is rendered and, if it is positive, becomes enforceable (after 30 days), it is then possible to use the judgment to legally register the parent’s rights at the amphur.

==========

1) Most amphur will not accept ONLY the father. All parties will have to consent, the mother and child too.

I will try to find the source. I believe it's under a regulation. I've never seen ONLY the father to register these rights without a judgment...but I'm not saying it's impossible. I just never seen it and we called at least 10 amphurs in different cases, they all refused under 7 years-old, they always asked the mother and father to consent.

I've seen many times amphur doing things that are 'not by the rules'.

2) Then if you do such agreement, you add clause 1566 (6).

Thaivisa is a big forum. Just ask: Is there a father out here who registered these rights ALONE at the amphur? If yes, can you scan the documents...

If not, it's gossip.

I repeat: I NEVER SEEN ONE AMPHUR JUST DOING A REGISTRATION WITHOUT THE MOTHER.. unless there is a judgment. That, yes. I've seen it many times. We register the rights after we have a judgment, that could also be an agreement in Court stamped by a judge, which has the same authority as a judgment in Thailand.

[guruavi]

found some new article about thai law that might be related:

http://www.bangkoknights.com/2010-89/paren...me-in-thailand/

it's interesting to read, as it's much different than most countries we come from.

[Mario2008]

Thanks for the link. It seems to be largely the information from the US state department, so I will add a link to the US state department instead to the article itself.

Link to state department article: http://travel.state.gov/abduction/country/country_528.html

[MikeyIdea]

Very good article Isaanlawyers. I don't quite dare to read the law by the book, as you say, interpretations differ

May I ask you to clarify two things;

Does legalize the child by a registration at the amphur (ใบรับรองบุตร) automatically give shared custody too? The wording on the ใบรับรองบุตร I have certifies the child as per my wish but it doesn’t specifically say anything about custody. I have heard one lawyer saying Yes it does and another No, it doesn’t… Your article state Yes. Is this case shared custody or not? What’s the catch compared with going to court? Cannot get it registered in amphurs computers? Not enforceable by law?

Supreme Court judgement 7473/2537: Unmarried parents making a custody agreement is not enforceable by law. I understand this to apply to cases when father has not legitimized the child only. A father who has legitimized the child by a registration at the amphur (ใบรับรองบุตร), can indeed use 1566 (6) to write an agreement which is enforceable by law (unless the parent with sole custody dies). Is this correct?

Respectfully

Michael

[SoloFlyer]

404 article not found.... ??

[OxfordWill]

The link is dead, could you update please?

[Mario2008]

The link is dead, could you update please?

I have updated the link: http://travel.state.gov/abduction/country/country_528.html

(also in my earlier post)