Kreng Jai

[t.s]

After 14 years in thailand i pretty much understand, but have never once heard it explained well by anyone, thai or otherwise.

in fact, when asked, my explanation has become "everything you both love and hate about thailand rolled into one".

care to try?

[villagefarang]

Being deferential, respectful, considerate, polite, courteous and generally taking others feelings and sensibilities into consideration. Then again it is something one feels, more than intellectualizes about in my opinion. Indeed hard to put into words.

[SeanMoran]

I agree that it is a rather mysterious concept, and having asked about it from time to time on web forums where I'd no doubt that there were members who grew up with an understanding of kreng jai, and more recently since I got back here to wonderland, to a couple of friends, one of whom I had not seen in three weeks until last night, at which time I asked her again, to remind her of the explanation on kreng jai she promised me over four weeks ago, and still never did manage to provide an explanation. Last night she just shrugged her shoulders and changed the subject.

From Benjawan Poomsan-Becker's dictionary, the only simple definition I can derive fro kreng jai by looking up the two words separately is, strict heart. I get a feeling that it wouldn't be too far off the right answer, although admittedly oversimplified.

[PST]

I have been told it is used in the context of 'I dont really want to ask you,but.....',i myself have used it in this context and it was very well recieved.I have only lived here 5 years,so i'm sure there are plenty of people on TV who may be able to explain it better.

PST.

[t.s]

Being deferential, respectful, considerate, polite, courteous and generally taking others feelings and sensibilities into consideration. Then again it is something one feels, more than intellectualizes about in my opinion. Indeed hard to put into words.

agreed, it is entirely intuitive. my understanding, right or wrong, is derived form years of watching it practiced. i do however believe it is one of the cornerstones of thai culture.

[lannarebirth]

Being deferential, respectful, considerate, polite, courteous and generally taking others feelings and sensibilities into consideration. Then again it is something one feels, more than intellectualizes about in my opinion. Indeed hard to put into words.

agreed, it is entirely intuitive. my understanding, right or wrong, is derived form years of watching it practiced. i do however believe it is one of the cornerstones of thai culture.

I think that's all true, but I would add "if that person if of same or higher status than you".

[thaiozy]

Interesting but from what I`ve learnt i would say it`s about respecting each other but don`t know much thai

& then there`s NAAM JAI along the same principles i think which concerns one`s generosity

[villagefarang]

I guess I have been here so long that I have forgotten what it is like to be a new kid on the block, trying desperately to understand and decipher every little nuance of Thai behavior.

Not sure when all that mystery and awe about cultural differences left me. Like Elvis, however, it has left the building. Things are simply what they are.

[way2muchcoffee]

One word definitions aren't really adequate but here's my take.

Kreng Jai: Consideration

Naam Jai: Generosity

[mauGR1]

My own translation of "greng jai" is "feeling empathy",well i don't know if it's 100 % correct..

[krading]

I recently funded a งานบวช, a ceremony where a male becomes a monk for a period, and the subsequent party after for a nephew of my missus.

I have been to a couple of these shows before where 300,000 bht has been spent only to have the boy leave the wat after only 2 days.

I spent nowhere near that amount and was wondering how long the nephew was going to remain a monk and was told he would stay until I went back to OZ in 3 months because he felt greng jai that I had paid for his party.

[Mobi]

The following link is good at explaining it in about 3 paragraphs, and in particular how it might affect visitors and tourists.

Personally I have always felt that Kreng Jai also contains a large element of respect and consideration to elders and/or those of higher status, as is mentioned in the link below.

kreng Jai

(sorry, the link didn't work - it does now)

Edited January 10, 2010 by Mobi

[teatree]

In its purest form it is a good thing - consideration and empathy towards others - eg you are waiting for a taxi, a stranger turns up also waiting for one, you offer the taxi to them as they seem to be in greater need. This a selfless act and is something that should be cherished.

However there is a danger Kreng Jai can be abused. It can be used to avoid doing something that you have a responsibility to do, morally or otherwise, but don't want to for whatever reason ie because it is difficult, awkward etc. An example might be someone sees the child of a friend drinking. The friend really needs to know about this problem so he/she can put a stop to it. The 'someone' keeps their mouth closed and pretends it is because they don 't want to worry the parent of the child - Kreng Jai. In reality they just don't want to deal with this very awkward situation. An entirely selfish act.

[up-country_sinclair]

A mix of consideration, empathy and respect.

[t.s]

Teatree and grading, thanks, both your posts sum up what I meant when I said "kreng jai is the best and worst of Thailand rolled into one."

Interestingly, I think the only effective way to explain kreng jai is anecdotal. Unfortunately the concept and application are so broad, you could tell stories forever without covering it all.

The young monk example is particularly apt as it demonstrates the amount of obligation kreng jai can carry. It also shows how it can cut both ways, a generous act like the one described (or even one that only appears so) is Kreng jai. Similarly the result of that act in the mind of the young monk has resulted in his obligation to remain longer perhaps than planned.

Mobi your link is ok as far as it goes, but it does gloss over the issue somwhat, but you really can't expect depth from a tourist guide.

Ironically, kreng jai itself may be the very reason it is near impossible to get an explanation of kreng jai from a thai -- they really dont want to overcomplicate the answer and risk confusing the foreigner, simply cant be bothered to go into detail or dont want to show the foreigner that they dont have a clue how to explain something that is a normal and natural to them as breathing.

Edited January 10, 2010 by t.s

[JusMe]

Seems to me that although Thais might know the meaning of the word, the practice isn't a part of Thai culture.

Consideration? Empathy for others? Awareness of the feelings of others? Karaoke, as a start!

[t.s]

But you miss the point, who is to say that kreng jai is not the sense of empathy or forgiveness that allows the karaoke to operate?

[Heng]

I think that's all true, but I would add "if that person if of same or higher status than you".

You can definitely greng jai folks who have a 'lower' status than you. For example: you might let your waitress just hang back and not mix your drinks for you if she's already been serving your table for a few hours because of 'greng jai' and 'greng jai' might also keep you from delivering 'late rent' notices to your tenants until after noon because retail level merchants often view getting bills before their first sales as a negative way to start a day.

[ferd54]

Interesting but from what I`ve learnt i would say it`s about respecting each other but don`t know much thai

& then there`s NAAM JAI along the same principles i think which concerns one`s generosity

Greng jai I would translate as "consideration". I believe its direct translation would be "fearful heart," which is telling because it is often used to show deference to one's superiors. It is not really voluntary in that context, but having consideration for a waitress, for example, is -- so indeed it has several nuances.

Nam jai, perhaps the ultimate expression of kindness in Thai, literally means "water heart," which after many attempts I finally thought should be translated at "overflowing heart".

Edited January 10, 2010 by ferd54

[JusMe]

But you miss the point, who is to say that kreng jai is not the sense of empathy or forgiveness that allows the karaoke to operate?

The karaoke, or other intrusive behaviour is the initiator.

Amplified screeching, high pitched drumming, throbbing bass which is felt more than a kilometer away shows no consideration, no kreng jai, for anyone else within a great distance.

So why should I be required to show kreng jai as empathy or forgiveness, whereas the initiator of the interference in others' lives shows none at all?

This is all about "face" which is public, the apparent loss of which needs vigorous defence or strenuous restoration.

Shameful behaviour, on the other hand, is something felt personally and is shown in correction of the behaviour.

We have a lot of "face", of "kreng jai" (which you really owe to 'me' but I only need to say I owe to 'you') here, but we have very little sense of shame at one's own behaviour.

(I use karaoke only as an example. I know there are other behaviours similarly demonstrative of my point.}

[t.s]

You do understand that I was being facetious?

[jackr]

In its purest form it is a good thing - consideration and empathy towards others - eg you are waiting for a taxi, a stranger turns up also waiting for one, you offer the taxi to them as they seem to be in greater need. This a selfless act and is something that should be cherished.

However there is a danger Kreng Jai can be abused. It can be used to avoid doing something that you have a responsibility to do, morally or otherwise, but don't want to for whatever reason ie because it is difficult, awkward etc. An example might be someone sees the child of a friend drinking. The friend really needs to know about this problem so he/she can put a stop to it. The 'someone' keeps their mouth closed and pretends it is because they don 't want to worry the parent of the child - Kreng Jai. In reality they just don't want to deal with this very awkward situation. An entirely selfish act.

Also somewhat of a barrier for not letting one get too close.

[tmwke]

Do the Thais really know what it means ? Maybe and surley amongst themselves,but the insincerity in which it is used in every day life beggers belife ie (TiT) !

[Xangsamhua]

If I remember rightly, some years ago, the consultants Henry Holmes and Suchada Tangtongtavy, in a book called "Working with the Thais", spoke of Thai people thinking and behaving differently depending on whether a person or situation was within their "sphere of concern".

If you were in some way significant to a Thai person - his/her family member, boss, friend, person of influence, etc. - he/she would be obliged to krengjai (consider) you. If you were just a neighbour in the muu baan or condo or someone with whom there is no relationship, e.g. another driver on the road, then there is no real sense of obligation to be considerate.

Of course, times change and people have different levels of social responsibility, so to stereotype Thai people in that way is not really fair. However, there may be something in it as Thai society continues the transition from face-to-face, village-based community life and mores (gemeinschaft) to impersonal, urban living (gesellschaft) and the emergence of a broader sense of civic responsibility, one which brings rewards in a less immediate, more secondary way (e.g. cleaner, quieter environment; safer, less nerve-wracking driving).

[t.s]

I think that there is very little point in claiming that Thais themselves don't understand it, but rahter that many tend to stray from the spirit in their application.

As for the "Sphere of concern" theory, I think that is an excellent analysis, thanks for that.

you lost me however (and, i suspect your own train of thought in the final paragraph.

[Neeranam]

เกรงใจ is not 'empathy' or 'respect' as some have said.

It's now wanting the other person to be put in a difficult or awkward position. 'Subservience' is a word that comes to mind - you don't want to do or say something that the other person might think, "what a nerve".

A simple example was yesterday when my wife's fortune teller(30 yrs old) came to the house and my wife was upstairs. I asked her if she wanted a glass of water - she said no thanks. "Are you sure?" I said - she said "greng jai".

[Neeranam]

เกรงใจ is not 'empathy' or 'respect' as some have said.

It's now wanting the other person to be put in a difficult or awkward position. 'Subservience' is a word that comes to mind - you don't want to do or say something that the other person might think, "what a nerve".

A simple example was yesterday when my wife's fortune teller(30 yrs old) came to the house and my wife was upstairs. I asked her if she wanted a glass of water - she said no thanks. "Are you sure?" I said - she said "greng jai".

Do the Thais really know what it means ? Maybe and surley amongst themselves,but the insincerity in which it is used in every day life beggers belife ie (TiT) !

Of course they do. If they don't show you 'greng jai', maybe you should look at yourself.

Edited January 10, 2010 by Neeranam

[Gaccha]

Of course, times change and people have different levels of social responsibility, so to stereotype Thai people in that way is not really fair. However, there may be something in it as Thai society continues the transition from face-to-face, village-based community life and mores (gemeinschaft) to impersonal, urban living (gesellschaft) and the emergence of a broader sense of civic responsibility, one which brings rewards in a less immediate, more secondary way (e.g. cleaner, quieter environment; safer, less nerve-wracking driving).

Weber has entered the building. Fantastic. This could get interesting. You say tomayto I say tomato. I say gesellschaft, you say gemeinschaft.

[bankruatsteve]

Krang Jai: Somebody farts. So, look for that big dog that's barking.

[citizen33]

The interpretation above of kreng jai to mean avoiding putting the other in an awkward or burdensome situation is nearest to my understanding. I'd always thought it was a stronger version of the old fashioned English wish not to impose, especially on somebody of equal or higher status. Usually I hear it when I offer to do something and the recipient says it does not matter, or when I ask why a person didn't request something. But I've never been 100% sure of this. P.S. Gemeinschaft to gesellschaft is Ferdinand Tönnies rather than Max Weber. As far as the situation of us farang goes, Sir Henry Maine's 'status to contract' may be more apt - it is all about money rather than social affiliations.

Edited January 10, 2010 by citizen33