Farang Shot And Killed In C.m.

[BigWheelMan]

Anyone do any research to share on comparisons.

We've been over this ground before, I know, but please note that according to the following data, Thailand's murder rate with firearms is almost 10 times (!) that of Mexico:

Murders with firearms per capita by country:

(From nationmaster.com)

# 1 South Africa: 0.719782 per 1,000 people

# 2 Colombia: 0.509801 per 1,000 people

# 3 Thailand: 0.312093 per 1,000 people

# 4 Zimbabwe: 0.0491736 per 1,000 people

# 5 Mexico: 0.0337938 per 1,000 people

# 6 Belarus: 0.0321359 per 1,000 people

# 7 Costa Rica: 0.0313745 per 1,000 people

# 8 United States: 0.0279271 per 1,000 people

# 9 Uruguay: 0.0245902 per 1,000 people

# 10 Lithuania: 0.0230748 per 1,000 people

# 11 Slovakia: 0.021543 per 1,000 people

# 12 Czech Republic: 0.0207988 per 1,000 people

# 13 Estonia: 0.0157539 per 1,000 people

# 14 Latvia: 0.0131004 per 1,000 people

# 15 Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of: 0.0127139 per 1,000 people

# 16 Bulgaria: 0.00845638 per 1,000 people

# 17 Portugal: 0.00795003 per 1,000 people

# 18 Slovenia: 0.00596718 per 1,000 people

# 19 Switzerland: 0.00534117 per 1,000 people

# 20 Canada: 0.00502972 per 1,000 people

# 21 Germany: 0.00465844 per 1,000 people

# 22 Moldova: 0.00448934 per 1,000 people

# 23 Hungary: 0.00439692 per 1,000 people

# 24 Poland: 0.0043052 per 1,000 people

# 25 Ukraine: 0.00368109 per 1,000 people

# 26 Ireland: 0.00298805 per 1,000 people

# 27 Australia: 0.00293678 per 1,000 people

# 28 Denmark: 0.00257732 per 1,000 people

# 29 Spain: 0.0024045 per 1,000 people

# 30 Azerbaijan: 0.00227503 per 1,000 people

# 31 New Zealand: 0.00173482 per 1,000 people

# 32 United Kingdom: 0.00102579 per 1,000 people

But the Thailand firearm percentages are not taking into consideration that most of these murders are happening in the troubled south.

[katana]

There was apparently another shooting (Thai) at the very same junction, but going in the other direction, yesterday.

Found this on line. It happened yesterday on the 14th January in the late afternoon at the same crossroads.

The victim was a 37 year old Lisu-Thai money lender and was killed in his pick-up truck in front of his 26 year old gf and 18 year-old niece who were passengers in the vehicle. Two men on a motorcycle pulled up alongside and shot him 6-7 times. Apparently he was on the way to buy food at the market and stopped at the same junction as the German man was killed 3 days earlier.

The police think the killing may be due to some illegal business activity such as drug dealing or some quarrel over a girl.

http://www.cm108.com/bbb/index.php?&showtopic=24844

Khaosod

[Thaihog]

MODS... why don't you close this topic, it's getting way off base from the original OP...

[orang37]

Why don't you look for yourself? I have no clue about the answers to your questions and no interest in trying to find them. I am fully busy living my own life and doing my best to enjoy it.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Priceless,

For clarity : stating those questions on this thread was not specifically a message to you. And the message was addressed to "TV Friends," not you, personally.

Perhaps you assume because the first sentence of the message was : "Welcome back, Khun Priceless" : the rest of the message was for you, to you, or was an attempt to put you under some obligation to respond to the questions.

The "welcome back" was just our way of saying we were glad to see you returning to the thread with your valued contributions of statistical knowledge and insight.

We have no expectations that anyone will respond to those questions, but we felt, at the time, that asking them would add value to the discussion, and that "value" might be higher if we refrained from avoiding stating what our opinions were on those questions. Also, we're aware that certain of our opinions on these questions are based on data that go back over twelve years ago to certain readings we did.

But, it is often the case that we think might add "value" does not; an outcome from which we neither "suffer too much" or "suffer too little."

But, if the outcome is a "novel response," that "opens our eyes," or a good butt-kicking rebuttal that shows us how the questions are irrelevant : that's a licking from which we can keep on ticking.

regards, ~o:37;

Edited January 15, 2010 by orang37

[getgoin]

I think what is really unfortunate here is not the anti-foreigner sentiment exhibited because that has always been around in one form or another.

When I first married my wife she lost the right to own property.

Heaven knows why your wife lost that right. I think you've been conned.

If you had been around for a while you would know that a Thai woman could not own land if she married a foreigner up to somewhere in the 90s. As another poster pointed out this was not the case with Thai men marrying a foreign woman.

A Thai woman still can not buy land with money received from a foreign husband. It has to be her own money.

[getgoin]

Heaven knows why your wife lost that right. I think you've been conned.

Years ago it was the law along with the wife required to take the husband's last name. Laws change, sometime actually for the better.

yeah, i know. But the poster was either talking mistakenly about now, or being rather economical with his knowledge of current ways!

Or you were mistakenly thinking that I was talking about now. I said that it was years ago. My wife owns lots of land and commercial buildings.

Edited January 15, 2010 by getgoin

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Priceless

The 8.2 value for Thailand was 2005 and the comparable 2005 US value was 5.6

If you wanted to use the 03 to 05 data for the US then wouldn't you want to average in the higher 9.0 value for Thailand 2004?

it would be more like

Thailand 8.6 (04,05 averaged) vs. US (03-05) 5.9

or

Thailand 8.2 (05) vs US (05) 5.6

Priceless is like the butcher who puts his thumb on the scale when he is weighing the cold cuts. You have to keep an eye on him.

You are quite right, my apologies for getting the decimals wrong. My major point, though, was that the claims for Thailand being in the top three (or whatever) are nonsense.

Anyway, I think we can be quite sure that all these figures are wrong in some sense of the word (we are talking about social sciences with their imprecisions, slightly differing definitions between countries etc). I, for one, think that the orders of magnitude are correct though.

/ Priceless

Don't sweat it Priceless. I was joking a little. I think the forum values your scientific input in opposition to the sometimes primative instincts of CM expat humanity.

Yes I am not sure how much to glean from this ranking. Data from years ago, differering standards and collection practices makes it tough. Okay maybe Thailand overall is nearly double the rate of a country like the US but doesn't really say much about CM. All these statistics are comprised of data from diverse communities.

In the US for example I have lived in Sedona Arizona(which straddles two counties) which has a murder every year or so and is extremely low crime and violence and compare that to somebody living in Detroit which is an outdoor prison hel_l hole. To take a countries overall data and generate a conclusion about how relatively safe it is to live in XYZ city is misguided.

Overall as a country Thailand does not have a lot of bragging rights in some categories but CM might not be anywhere as bad.

Maybe there is a fluent Thai TV member who can dig up some recent stats on CM city/province or at least point us to an online resource which could be translated.

Still it's been a stimulating thread about dangers, when and where they might exist and perhaps how to avoid them.

It's kind of like hiking in bear country. Your odds of being attacked by a bear are not that great but it's helpful to understand the probabilities, risk and modalities for a given location.

Let's hope this man's unfortunate execution results in something positive like awareness and greater safety.

[JungleJim]

I must be living in a dream world... I have driven here for 25 years, and I have never seen or experienced road rage, or ever witnessed an accident. I just do my driving and enjoy the experience

you have never witnessed an accident in 25 years of driving in Thailand? Consider yourself very very lucky. I wish I could get the memory out of my head of the images of people laying face down in pools of blood.

No fair if your legally blind

I have seen maybe 10-12 fatalities (mostly aftermaths) in 5 years in CM and I consider myself a lucky person. I want some of that Ajanmai luck. wow.

I find it quite staggering that you have not witnessed an accident in 25 years of driving. Almost every time I undertake a long journey I come across the scene of an accident, some serious, some trivial. Among these I too have witnessed fatalities. I have also been knocked off my motorbike 3 times in 8 years, once by a geriatric and twice by drunks.

I think your experience is unfortunately far from the norm.

Edited January 16, 2010 by JungleJim

[JungleJim]

I must be living in a dream world... I have driven here for 25 years, and I have never seen or experienced road rage, or ever witnessed an accident. I just do my driving and enjoy the experience

You must be living in a dream world, just last week you posted this:

A couple of years ago, during a light rain, I was driving my Pick up south of the hot springs. In a turn, I lost my traction and ended up with my truck flipping on its side... No injuries, thank god, but this is what my truck looked like..

Forget about that one Ajarnmai? Classic.

[femi fan]

So my own facts are that this country is infinitely safer and free from fear compared to my home country, the UK, and to australia where i've spent quite some time.

I find it interesting how you can so blithely state that thailand has the third highest murder rate as being 'fact', just because it was reported this way in this thread. Facts are so easy eh!

And as for living here, i just cannot escape from my own fact that it's extremely safe, and that the only time i have to be wary in my life is when i am driving on the roads.

The source of the statistic was posted with the data. When I found it, I too was surprised that Thailand’s gun murder rate is supposed to be almost 10 times that of Mexico.

Your 'facts' are of course anecdotal; you could hardly know all of the country. I lived in Thailand for 14 years and was never the victim of extreme violence, but I knew two people personally who were murdered and several who died in traffic accidents. In my previous 35 years in the US, I knew one person who was murdered, but that direct knowledge does not provide any kind of real insight.

There is a great deal of Thai-on-Thai violence that most foreigners never hear about. The 'facts', as reported by various international organizations, since I first saw them more than 10 years ago, have always placed Thailand near the very top for traffic and gun deaths. It also has a high overall murder rate, but its ranking is lower than by gun death.

The subject that emerged quickly in this thread was whether road rage existed in Thailand. I think it certainly does.

In general the combination of huge disparity in wealth and opportunity, poor law enforcement and ethics and the inability to fairly resolve conflicts makes for a volatile brew. There’s a lot of suppressed anger that can come bursting out, especially with alcohol or drugs involved; the rates of their abuse is also very high.

What I found most appalling was the driving – such a polite people on the surface turn into reckless sociopaths behind the wheel. Give them a little power and anonymity and watch ‘em rage.

A plausible scenario for the German’s death could be the guys in the Honda were driving like d*ckheads, he flipped them off, and one of them shot him to death at the traffic stop. I doubt he began randomly flipping people off. Some sort of sick cat-and-mouse road game could have preceded the shooting. All speculation, of course.

Thai on thai violence, wow, would you believe such a thing could exist! What a shocking kind of people they are. Nothing like that exists in other countries, oh no. And although most foreigners never hear about this shocking fact, you have heard about it. And in any case, your claim indicates you have interviewed several thousand foreigners in order to arrive at this 'fact'.

Why do you insist on dissing thais for things that every nationality does? Indeed, why do you have to even talk of nationality? Why not gender? After all, males all around the world indulge in violence, it seems to be part of their make-up when they can't control their egos.

Have you ever stopped to ponder why road rage exists? People get in cars and norms of behaviour shaped by culture and inherent respect for others are left behind. There is no eye contact to keep people in check, to keep them behaving civilly towards their fellow human beings. But when it comes to thailand, since you are so fond of dividing people up, road rage here is a tiny fraction of road rage in england and australia, facts i can verify from my own experience.

And look at this: "such a polite people on the surface turn into reckless sociopaths behind the wheel. Give them a little power and anonymity and watch ‘em rage"... i'm not sure i've ever read such ridiculous generalising. If you were to be believed we'd never be able to drive anywhere. However bad the driving may be, it is only with a minority. One mad person kills another, and you're dissing a whole race of people.

You are an open racist, and luckily for thai people you've left the country. What took you so long to leave?

[femi fan]

femi fan; while I share your sentiments on the 'feel safe' aspect of life in Muang Thai, I think you perhaps need to wake up and smell the roses on the potential for something to go drastically wrong from a seemingly innocuous situation when compared with other climes you castigate.

Jack, i'm writing from my personal experience of living in thailand, and comparing it to england where i had my primary experience of life, and australia where i spend some time, and also tales from the international set of people one can meet in chiang mai. And my experience informs me that thais have a far greater tolerance level from provocative behaviour than those in england. I grant you, once the tolerance level has been breached, fireworks do indeed explode!!

I'm not castigating other climes. I'm castigating all forms of violence which i abhor, and which is usually perpetrated by stupid males whose egos have got the better of them. And i see way more violence in england than thailand. Perhaps they hide it better here in thailand, but i can only comment on what i see. Stats on the net or anywhere are always notoriously dodgy in terms of being able to interpret them for any valid meaning.

I mind my own business in thailand and get no grief. That is just not the case in britain where you can even be verbally abused for smiling at someone.

[ferd54]

You are an open racist, and luckily for thai people you've left the country.

It's not racism, just results of experience. Could be lucky for the Thais, certainly lucky for me.

What took you so long to leave?

I often ask myself the same question.

[FarangCravings]

You are an open racist, and luckily for thai people you've left the country.

It's not racism, just results of experience. Could be lucky for the Thais, certainly lucky for me.

What took you so long to leave?

I often ask myself the same question.

Ferd you always get people like femi fan that stick there heads in the ground and refuse to see whats happening around them I dont think you are a racist just a realist.

I agree with FF that the UK is very violent which can be confirmed every weekend as the pubs empty out in any UK city however I cant ever remember 2 shootings in less than 3 days Thailand is way more dangerous than the UK

[femi fan]

You are an open racist, and luckily for thai people you've left the country.

It's not racism, just results of experience. Could be lucky for the Thais, certainly lucky for me.

What took you so long to leave?

I often ask myself the same question.

I'd actually like to apologise to you ferd, i was out of order saying that. And you have displayed remarkable manners in dealing with my poor manners! I hope you enjoy your weekend wherever you are. I talk from the basis that i've always loved thailand, and i should remember that there's loads of room for different opinions. I'm not blind to problems here, but perhaps i'm lucky that i found a country that makes me enjoy life more than the one i was born in. Please have a cyber beer on me to try and atone for my rudeness!

[FarangCravings]

You are an open racist, and luckily for thai people you've left the country.

It's not racism, just results of experience. Could be lucky for the Thais, certainly lucky for me.

What took you so long to leave?

I often ask myself the same question.

I'd actually like to apologise to you ferd, i was out of order saying that. And you have displayed remarkable manners in dealing with my poor manners! I hope you enjoy your weekend wherever you are. I talk from the basis that i've always loved thailand, and i should remember that there's loads of room for different opinions. I'm not blind to problems here, but perhaps i'm lucky that i found a country that makes me enjoy life more than the one i was born in. Please have a cyber beer on me to try and atone for my rudeness!

A rare post on TV

Nice job FF

[ferd54]

I'd actually like to apologise to you ferd, i was out of order saying that... have a cyber beer on me.

No problem. I was thinking more about you're post and just thought that some people find a niche or a situation in Thailand that suits them. I am glad you are happy. Because of marriage and business stuff, I stayed too long at the fair. I enjoyed it for many years, but I think I changed and Thailand changed, but my roots were so deeply sunk it was hard to get out. As you see, I still retain an interest in Chiang Mai and Thailand.

Anyway, thanks for the note.

[femi fan]

A rare post on TV

Nice job FF

Entirely ferd's doing. His most admirable restraint in the face of my verbal violence shamed and humbled me! And, of course, it's sometimes easy to speak before thinking properly.

I'll now try and translate that into my reactions when driving around...

[femi fan]

I'd actually like to apologise to you ferd, i was out of order saying that... have a cyber beer on me.

No problem. I was thinking more about you're post and just thought that some people find a niche or a situation in Thailand that suits them. I am glad you are happy. Because of marriage and business stuff, I stayed too long at the fair. I enjoyed it for many years, but I think I changed and Thailand changed, but my roots were so deeply sunk it was hard to get out. As you see, I still retain an interest in Chiang Mai and Thailand.

Anyway, thanks for the note.

It's easy for something to go sour in life, and it's a pity sometimes when it happens. I can easily see how people can get royally pissed off with thailand, their way of doing things is so different in many ways to what we're used to back in farangland. Their very ways are both the attraction and the poison...! And for sure, i think doing business here would test anybody. Luckily for me i didn't fall into the business line of work. Marriage, well, that's enough to test any bloke!

[annabel]

And where the heck is India... Also not on the list...? Unthinkable !! 1 Billion hot blooded and irrational people.... 30% of them driving on the roads. Get into an accident ...huh rite !!!.... run for your life especially if you are a farang cause in seconds there will be hundreds of people surrounding your vehicule and next thing you know they will grab you and beat you to death without a blink of the eye whether you are the culprit or not.... who was at fault will be determined AFTER... Total crowd rage...! And then they burn your car since you are now dead and have no more use for it ... reported =10% of these accidents MAYBE ??? .... anybody arrested and jailed = 0%.. I say 0% cause the newspaper will always refer to it as a "MISHAP" and then you never hear anything else about it again ...

Gun killings... all the time ... reported = sometimes.... arrested and jailed = 0 .... big wigs who have connections and money

... reason for gun killings= CAN BE ANYTHING YOU CAN IMAGINE !!

Hit and runs.... every day ... arrested and jailed = 0 ...again rich young kids drunk out of their minds who pay to go free ... have big powerful daddy's

Believe me driving here is SANE compared to there...!! Living here is sane compared to there!! and they are not even on the list ..!! What a joke !!!

We've been over this ground before, I know, but please note that according to the following data, Thailand's murder rate with firearms is almost 10 times (!) that of Mexico:

Do you have any idea how many murders occur in Mexico that are never offically reported?

Having spent far more years in Mexico than Thailand, can tell you there is a difference in what makes the news in these two countries. And if half of the stories are true, there really are so many of them, Mexico would would be in the top three. What about the countries that don't make the list? Priceless already put it eloquently; a list like that could easily have been complied by a single person using Google or Wikipedia!!

Where the heck is Venezuela on that list???? I've lost friends there, and know it's been reported as having one of the highest murder rates in the world.

RIP

[ferd54]

And where the heck is India...

I think India doesn't hit the top spots on lists because they are per capita and the country has such a huge population.

[Trickcyclist]

events considered strange in Kew

are everyday things in Katmandu

I live in the same neighborhood and was having dinner last night with one of the policemen who were at the scene. I heard the same details from him - young Thai in a car pulls up next to him and shoots him at a red light while on his motorcycle - all I can add was that Mr. Schuller was 43.

As safe as we may feel here, ex-pats should keep in mind that Thailand has the 3rd highest firearm homicide rate in the world behind South Africa and Columbia, and has a firearm homicide rate ten times higher than that of the US.

My condolences to Mr. Schuller's family.

Out of curiosity, where did you derive those figures from?

-Mestizo

Mestizo,

The figures come from a UNODC study - A Google search for "List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate" should bring it up.

I have a suspicion (that you might be able to confirm) that your numbers come from here: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...s-with-firearms

In that case, I feel compelled to point out an oddity. According to that table, there were 20,032 murders by firearms in Thailand according to a UN report from 2002. According to another table on the same site ( http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur-crime-murders ) there were however "only" 5,140 total murders in Thailand in the same period. I don't know whether this should be interpreted as each victim having been shot with four bullets or in some other way

/ Priceless

[gotlost]

This weeks Chiangmai-Mail is now line. www.chiangmai-mail.com

Deadly intersection sees

two shootings in one week

Forensic police inspected the scene of the second shooting that took place

at the Chiang Mai - Phrao road intersection on January 14.

continuedd

[haybilly]

I must be living in a dream world... I have driven here for 25 years, and I have never seen or experienced road rage, or ever witnessed an accident. I just do my driving and enjoy the experience

you have never witnessed an accident in 25 years of driving in Thailand? Consider yourself very very lucky. I wish I could get the memory out of my head of the images of people laying face down in pools of blood.

No fair if your legally blind

I have seen maybe 10-12 fatalities (mostly aftermaths) in 5 years in CM and I consider myself a lucky person. I want some of that Ajanmai luck. wow.

I find it quite staggering that you have not witnessed an accident in 25 years of driving. Almost every time I undertake a long journey I come across the scene of an accident, some serious, some trivial. Among these I too have witnessed fatalities. I have also been knocked off my motorbike 3 times in 8 years, once by a geriatric and twice by drunks.

I think your experience is unfortunately far from the norm.

I'm afraid to say that I agree with you and CobraSnake [Capt.Beefheart fan?] in that I, having driven approx. 350,000 Km during 10 years in LOS, have also had the misfortune to witness,come across or pass by scores of accidents on the roads of this country--the vast majority probably fatal, although it's fortunately not always obvious that they were involving a death--I, too, have had a couple of scrapes and been knocked off an m'bike [ though these days I refuse to ride the dam_n things--only four wheels now] and lost 3 friends to road accidents--this is way more than I saw or was involved in whilst driving in the previous 28 years in UK some of which were spent as a delivery driver.

Be careful out there--the roads are dangerous enough without maniacs with Glocks.

[moetownblues]

I live in a village on chiang mai - phroa Rd about 300 metres from this intersection scary thought. I saw the aftermath of the shooting of thai guy in the ute. So much for containing the scene and preveting evidence from being destroyed. Police just standing around and the thai public all jostling to get a look inside the car must have been 50 or more trying to get inside the vehicle. One crime scene completely destroyed.

[Donnyboy]

I live in a village on chiang mai - phroa Rd about 300 metres from this intersection scary thought. I saw the aftermath of the shooting of thai guy in the ute. So much for containing the scene and preveting evidence from being destroyed. Police just standing around and the thai public all jostling to get a look inside the car must have been 50 or more trying to get inside the vehicle. One crime scene completely destroyed.

BIB were probably manning the ticket booth for viewings

[CMFarang]

Wow , what a mess this string has produced.

Like anywhere , there is Good and Bad. This was definitely a Bad situation that got very ugly , and my Condolences go out to friends and Family.

Personally , I have stopped driving in CM whenever possible during certain hours of the day , and certain roads altogether when possible.

Road rage , is not so common here YET , Bad Drivers are COMMON, and if you retaliate , THEY DO NOT EVER KNOW WHY YOU ARE UPSET , THEY DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DRIVE with Courtesy. They do not see the mistake, Obvious to the observant.

Now I live 100 yards from the corner in question here. There is a great little Coffee Bus there , and if you grab a coffee ad go sit at the corner by the Lights , then you will be Amazed , Amused and Horrified by the drivers behavior here. I do this regularly, kind of a personal eduction time in Thailand..

WATCH OUT , there are no rules , No Police will enforce any more than the 200 Baht Pocket Fine..

AND IF A THAI GETS AGGRESSIVE WITH YOU , APOLOGIZE , WAH, SMILE AND WALK AWAY.. THEY HAVE A GUN. THAIS WITHOUT WEAPONS WILL AVOID EYE CONTACT MOST OF THE TIME AND NEVER GET IN YOUR FACE.. USE YOUR BRAINS AND STREET SMARTS HERE .

17 Years in Chiang Mai , I have been cut off 1,000's of times , run off the road , seen to many deaths on the road , avoided many fatal situations , and yes, had guns pointed in my face .. Statistics, and arguments may satisfy your desire to confront, BUT GUNS KILL..

These people are GREAT for the most part , a little oblivious at times , but generally Nice and Friendly.. I LOVE Thailand , and to live anywhere without trying to understand the behavior of others may get you in a situation that there are only 2 ways out of , Polite and Submissive , or maybe breathless .

Use your head , you all seem so smart.. and maybe some useful advice instead of statistic would help.

Buddha save me.

Edited January 20, 2010 by CMFarang

[funcat]

Wow , what a mess this string has produced.

Like anywhere , there is Good and Bad. This was definitely a Bad situation that got very ugly , and my Condolences go out to friends and Family.

Personally , I have stopped driving in CM whenever possible during certain hours of the day , and certain roads altogether when possible.

Road rage , is not so common here YET , Bad Drivers are COMMON, and if you retaliate , THEY DO NOT EVER KNOW WHY YOU ARE UPSET , THEY DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DRIVE with Courtesy. They do not see the mistake, Obvious to the observant.

Now I live 100 yards from the corner in question here. There is a great little Coffee Bus there , and if you grab a coffee ad go sit at the corner by the Lights , then you will be Amazed , Amused and Horrified by the drivers behavior here. I do this regularly, kind of a personal eduction time in Thailand..

WATCH OUT , there are no rules , No Police will enforce any more than the 200 Baht Pocket Fine..

AND IF A THAI GETS AGGRESSIVE WITH YOU , APOLOGIZE , WAH, SMILE AND WALK AWAY.. THEY HAVE A GUN. THAIS WITHOUT WEAPONS WILL AVOID EYE CONTACT MOST OF THE TIME AND NEVER GET IN YOUR FACE.. USE YOUR BRAINS AND STREET SMARTS HERE .

17 Years in Chiang Mai , I have been cut off 1,000's of times , run off the road , seen to many deaths on the road , avoided many fatal situations , and yes, had guns pointed in my face .. Statistics, and arguments may satisfy your desire to confront, BUT GUNS KILL..

These people are GREAT for the most part , a little oblivious at times , but generally Nice and Friendly.. I LOVE Thailand , and to live anywhere without trying to understand the behavior of others may get you in a situation that there are only 2 ways out of , Polite and Submissive , or maybe breathless .

Use your head , you all seem so smart.. and maybe some useful advice instead of statistic would help.

Buddha save me.

...well put,CMFarang...I live here on-and-off for last 8 years,and it took me a while to learn the driving habits here...now,unfortunately,is harder and harder,since there are more cars,and a lot more of "new" drivers on the roads...harder to control the temper too...

[moetownblues]

Wow , what a mess this string has produced.

Like anywhere , there is Good and Bad. This was definitely a Bad situation that got very ugly , and my Condolences go out to friends and Family.

Personally , I have stopped driving in CM whenever possible during certain hours of the day , and certain roads altogether when possible.

Road rage , is not so common here YET , Bad Drivers are COMMON, and if you retaliate , THEY DO NOT EVER KNOW WHY YOU ARE UPSET , THEY DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DRIVE with Courtesy. They do not see the mistake, Obvious to the observant.

Now I live 100 yards from the corner in question here. There is a great little Coffee Bus there , and if you grab a coffee ad go sit at the corner by the Lights , then you will be Amazed , Amused and Horrified by the drivers behavior here. I do this regularly, kind of a personal eduction time in Thailand..

WATCH OUT , there are no rules , No Police will enforce any more than the 200 Baht Pocket Fine..

AND IF A THAI GETS AGGRESSIVE WITH YOU , APOLOGIZE , WAH, SMILE AND WALK AWAY.. THEY HAVE A GUN. THAIS WITHOUT WEAPONS WILL AVOID EYE CONTACT MOST OF THE TIME AND NEVER GET IN YOUR FACE.. USE YOUR BRAINS AND STREET SMARTS HERE .

17 Years in Chiang Mai , I have been cut off 1,000's of times , run off the road , seen to many deaths on the road , avoided many fatal situations , and yes, had guns pointed in my face .. Statistics, and arguments may satisfy your desire to confront, BUT GUNS KILL..

These people are GREAT for the most part , a little oblivious at times , but generally Nice and Friendly.. I LOVE Thailand , and to live anywhere without trying to understand the behavior of others may get you in a situation that there are only 2 ways out of , Polite and Submissive , or maybe breathless .

Use your head , you all seem so smart.. and maybe some useful advice instead of statistic would help.

Buddha save me.

...well put,CMFarang...I live here on-and-off for last 8 years,and it took me a while to learn the driving habits here...now,unfortunately,is harder and harder,since there are more cars,and a lot more of "new" drivers on the roads...harder to control the temper too...

When I drive with my thai wife she is constantly leaning over and pressing on the horn. Your real backseat driver so to speak. Little things that not even worry me. Now I am constantly saying to her what the F&*(& are you doing? trying to get me shot? Well then that is a different argument that erupts

[Donnyboy]

When I drive with my thai wife she is constantly leaning over and pressing on the horn. Your real backseat driver so to speak. Little things that not even worry me. Now I am constantly saying to her what the F&*(& are you doing? trying to get me shot? Well then that is a different argument that erupts

well i hope for yr sake shes not armed then

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

Thailand has the third highest murder rate by firearms in the world, as already reported in this thread.

Whatever we like to think about living here, one thing we can not do is escape the facts.

caf

I, too, find it a bit morbid to discuss statistics on a thread concerning the death of another human being. I do however have a comparatively low level of tolerance for nonsense, even on a public forum like this.<snip>

RIP Mr. Schuller and condolences to Mr. Schuller's family.

With regard to Nationmaster's and other sources' statistics, I have the original Thai spreadsheet containing this data and the mistake is simply this: the number of crimes committed with a firearm (about 20,000) has been used by these non-Thai sources as the number of murders using a firearm.

The actual world ranking of Thailand w.r.t. murders by firearm is about 12th, which is still uncomfortably high, but it is definitely not 3rd. Check an old post of mine here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thailand-Lan...t&p=1671983