Tough Decision .....

[coalminer]

When I came to Thailand, nearly a decade ago, I had been suffering from a Cardiac disease a long time, but feeled good in this tropical climate.

After living in Thailand for 2 years and doing every 90 days a border-run (I was not 50 years old and not married), I decided to marry my girlfriend and apply for a non-resident visa on basis of having a "Thai Wife".

No border runs anymore.

Just do every 90 days a report and everything was ok.

Until last year, when I started to feel my (older) age.

I have a Personal Accident Insurance, and in case I would be hospitalised for an accident, this Insurance would take care of (almost) everything.

But what if I would have a serious Medical condition that would not be related to an accident?

I read on this and other forums about bill's from hospitals of 1 million Baht and more for a few weeks in Intensive Care.

I started to look for a Health Insurance, but nobody wanted to insure me based on my Medical history.

An Insurance Company replied that if they would make a proposal for a Health Insurance, the yearly contribution would be so high that it would make no sense.

So I started to look at the other options I have.

Option 1:

In my own country, I (and my family) have a very good FREE Health Insurance.

If I would have my residence in my country and come to Thailand a few times per year for holiday, everything would be ok as far as the Health Insurance is concerned.

I know personally many expatriates who have taken the decision to return to their home country with their family, mainly for this reason (and free and/or better education).

Drawback:

1. I would need to rent or buy a place to live in my country.

Cost: Renting: min. 20,000 Bath

Buying: min. 4 million Baht

2. A roundtrip to Thailand: min. 25,000 Baht per person.

3. Cost of living in my country is about 10 times higher as in Thailand.

Option 2:

I have found some Insurance Companies whose only object is to repatriate the Insured person.

By renting a Post Box and residing back in my country, I could subscribe to such an Insurance and be covered if something happens to me in Thailand which is not related to an accident.

In that case, the Insurance Company would take care to transport me from Thailand to my home country.

Drawback:

1. The Insurance is not cheap (about 100,000 Baht/year).

2. The setup with Post Box is not 100% legal and, as I'm residing back in my home country, all the mail will be send to the Post Box.

3. Most of these Insurances require that the Insured person would also reside in his home country for a given period in a year.

I hate the idea of leaving Thailand and returning to my home country, but there seems to be no other option.

Or is there?

[BigWheelMan]

For us Farangs, Thailand is the land of the healthy.

If we fell seriously ill, suffered a serious accident or required long term medical treatment and medication, it`s either pay or die.

I am sure that most of us, especially the elders, are living on a hope and a prayer that the worst won`t happen.

Complete peace of mind is what we give up when moving to Thailand.

These are the facts and it`s up to each individual to decide what is the best options for them, taking into consideration their present state of health, financies and age.

No one can really advise on these matters, it`s a case of do or don`t.

[onnut]

Luckly I am still young at 34 years of age, and do not think about this much. But on the other hand I do worry that as I get older, with no pension how will I look after myself when I retire? I cannot afford to save for a pension at the moment, and I am also starting to worry about school fees which will

come next year.

So not the same problem as yours, but not that different. I think there must be many like us over here worrying about our future near or far.

I hope it works out for you and you also get peace of mind with your decision.

[cognos]

You may want to consider that your health is your paramount concern ( with your family in a tie or running a very close second ), so in your shoes i would live in your home country only as long as it takes to be fully covered with medical. In Canada it is 6 months, so if you were from Canada you could still live in LOS half the time.

signed: half the time in LOS ain't so bad bro

[cognos]

half the time in LOS is better than taking the chance of being a canary in a coal mine®

[kikoman]

I am receiving medical care at the Thai Army hospital, very good medical care and a lot cheaper then the farang oriented hospitals. I have received same quality treatment in Sattahip prior to my moving north.

One of my brothers suffered a heart attack and received great medical care at the hospital in Sattahip and his week stay was not expensive.

At my age, I do not understand the wish for expensive medical care. None of us are going to leave this world alive. I would rather pass away than live as a vegetable. When your time is up, its up!

I feel healthy enough and hope I live at least 10 more years, but I am making arrangements all ready, for that date with destiny we must all face.

I wish you good health, with your present medical condition, that your decision not just be based on money-instead be based on where you will be happier when the end comes be it your home country or Thailand.

I have already made my decision and it will be in Thailand.

Again I wish you good health, enjoy your life while you can!

Cheers:

[manarak]

1 - ask a friend if you could "live" at his address, register this address officially if necessary. Maybe your friend will have to sign something that you live at his home free of charge.

2 - put your name on the postbox or put up a separate box with your name on it at the friend's address

3 - maintain a bank account in your home country with that address

4 - get a credit card. Most credit cards contain an insurance to repatriate you to your home country incase of accident during vacations abroad - check exact modalities.

use the card only in your home country.

done.

[Loz]

Don't fear the Reaper!

[coalminer]

I am receiving medical care at the Thai Army hospital, very good medical care and a lot cheaper then the farang oriented hospitals. I have received same quality treatment in Sattahip prior to my moving north.

One of my brothers suffered a heart attack and received great medical care at the hospital in Sattahip and his week stay was not expensive.

True, I live also up country and I had a few urgent hospitalisations.

Never had to pay more than a few 10K Baht.

I also asked the question to my Cardiolog in Thailand how muchit would cost me if I would be hospitalised for a heart attack, and the answer was "from 50K to 250K".

At my age, I do not understand the wish for expensive medical care. None of us are going to leave this world alive. I would rather pass away than live as a vegetable. When your time is up, its up!

I feel healthy enough and hope I live at least 10 more years, but I am making arrangements all ready, for that date with destiny we must all face.

I made these arrangements already long ago.

An accident happens easily and I want to be sure that if that happens everything will be carried out to my will.

I don't have the wish to be alive at all costs.

If my live would mean that I would have to live like a plant or living continuously in heavy pain, I rather want to be dead and not a burden to my family.

On the otherhand, 15 years ago I suffered a severe stroke and a few heart attacks in 2 years time.

I was smoking like hel_l at that time.

The response of the Cardiolog at the operation table at that moment was that I would live at the best 1 year more and that it would be of no use to make extensive operations.

15 years later, I am still alive and kicking.

Never lose hope.

I wish you good health, with your present medical condition, that your decision not just be based on money-instead be based on where you will be happier when the end comes be it your home country or Thailand.

I have already made my decision and it will be in Thailand.

Again I wish you good health, enjoy your life while you can!

Cheers:

I would rather live in Thailand that in my own home country.

This decision is not just based on financial conditions.

It is well known that when I will be "a bird for the cat", in my country the Doctors will try to keep me alive by all means.

Only to drain money from the State Healthcare and to be a study object.

Only to avoid that, I would rather like to be in Thailand when this happens.

Cheers

[coalminer]

1 - ask a friend if you could "live" at his address, register this address officially if necessary. Maybe your friend will have to sign something that you live at his home free of charge.

2 - put your name on the postbox or put up a separate box with your name on it at the friend's address

3 - maintain a bank account in your home country with that address

4 - get a credit card. Most credit cards contain an insurance to repatriate you to your home country incase of accident during vacations abroad - check exact modalities.

use the card only in your home country.

done.

That plan will never work as in my country they will control my passport and this will show without doubt how much time I spent in my home country and abroad.

BTW: items #3 and $4 are fulfilled simce day 1.

[gmac]

Don't fear the Reaper!

The Reaper isn't the problem, he solves it! It's what happens, or might happen, before he gets here that the OP and many others are worried about!

[smokie36]

You don't say what type of cardiac disease. If its coronary artery blockages you may want to consider having stenting done using X-ray. Less risky than having an op(Cheaper too).

Early intervention is better than burying your head in the sand.

Good luck.

[coalminer]

You don't say what type of cardiac disease. If its coronary artery blockages you may want to consider having stenting done using X-ray. Less risky than having an op(Cheaper too).

Early intervention is better than burying your head in the sand.

Good luck.

Read my OP again.

I have more stents in my body as the 6 million dollar man.

And a few artificial arterie as well.

[Latindancer]

I've read his OP again, but I can't see any details of what type of heart disease etc.

Maybe he's using invisible ink for some of the post ?

[thaiozy]

Well not upto scratch on this but to me it seems the health system is fixed & priced accordingly arround the world

BUT maybe one way around it would be "let`s say" you went home for a short period of time "maybe a couple of weeks" & applied for enoughe cover in that travel ins. to cover all

Only a thought

as i still work & am covered through a union for upto 90 days i think

[livinthailandos]

whatever you do I just wish you the best. As for being a US Citizen my options are limited how so When I get older

A. Social Security will be no longer be around due to:

1. Elected officals constantly taking money from the social security fund

2. there will be a lot less people in the workforce to pay social security tax.

3. Older people will outnumber younger people be a high ratio

B. Even so for healthcare heres my option even though I'm young while I was in the US

$110 a month but deductable $5,000 this means for the insurance to start to pay I would have to spend $5000 dollars first then after that they would cover me

$400 a month but deductable $250

If I take the more expensive option mind you this does not include dental Im looking at almost $5,000 a year to cover my butt or 175,000 baht, if I have to include dental plan thats another $200 a month in total for just health care and dental care thats pretty much $7000 dollars a year. When I'm old it will be harder to get coverage and Most likely I'll have to pay out $15,000 to $20,000 dollars every year just for health coverage.

C. keep in note more and more business are dropping health care and dental due to its to expensive to add for their business.

only thing back home that became cheaper was generic drugs, other than that I suspect in the future we will have a pandemic of people unable to afford healthcare i easily say it could be 100 milllion people or more who won't have health care

[Jingthing]

livin, how old are you? If you are over 40 there is nothing to worry about as far as social security still existing when you are 62. Also, the US being a country open to immigrants with no one child policy, has a good and growing pool of young workers. Currently, too many for the jobs available.

Buying private health insurance at the current time in the US or Thailand if you have serious preexisting conditions is a major problem. Likely soon in the US that will all change but the costs will still be huge.

To the OP, your evacuation insurance idea is a bad one. When you need to make a claim, they will likely take the time to investigate and catch you. So why pay money for that?

I can see this is a very difficult decision. It might help if you told us the amount of your liquid cash reserves. I don't expect you to tell something so personal, but otherwise, I don't feel you will be getting the best advice. For example if you have 10K baht to your name vs. 10 million baht makes a big difference! In the latter, just stay in Thailand and pay cash for the service as needed. In between, a big grey area.

[Jingthing]

One of my brothers suffered a heart attack and received great medical care at the hospital in Sattahip and his week stay was not expensive.

Current reports that Sattahip is going to differential pricing based on nationality. Also recent reports that some actual hostility is being shown to non-Thai patients.

[manarak]

1 - ask a friend if you could "live" at his address, register this address officially if necessary. Maybe your friend will have to sign something that you live at his home free of charge.

2 - put your name on the postbox or put up a separate box with your name on it at the friend's address

3 - maintain a bank account in your home country with that address

4 - get a credit card. Most credit cards contain an insurance to repatriate you to your home country incase of accident during vacations abroad - check exact modalities.

use the card only in your home country.

done.

That plan will never work as in my country they will control my passport and this will show without doubt how much time I spent in my home country and abroad.

BTW: items #3 and $4 are fulfilled simce day 1.

ok, please tell what your home country is, it is a little difficult to draw plans without knowing and without being able to do some research on administrative procedures there.

AFAIK, my country has no way to tell if I'm there or not.

[coalminer]

I've read his OP again, but I can't see any details of what type of heart disease etc.

Maybe he's using invisible ink for some of the post ?

- A (severe) stroke with right sde handicap,

- Stents placed in the arteries which supply the Kidney's with blood,

- 2 Heart attacks in 24 hours time,

- Clothed arteries due to heavy smoking,

- Cleaned the Arteries, placed 5 stents (2 Coronary) and "a pant" (arteificial arteries in the legs)

This all happened in 2 years time.

OK for you?

[coalminer]

To the OP, your evacuation insurance idea is a bad one. When you need to make a claim, they will likely take the time to investigate and catch you. So why pay money for that?

Travel Insurances such as Europ Assistance are well known in Europe for their prompt and good service.

They have their own airplanes and medical teams (flying doctors) and don't lose time on an investigation.

Not at all a waste of money.

I can see this is a very difficult decision. It might help if you told us the amount of your liquid cash reserves. I don't expect you to tell something so personal, but otherwise, I don't feel you will be getting the best advice. For example if you have 10K baht to your name vs. 10 million baht makes a big difference! In the latter, just stay in Thailand and pay cash for the service as needed. In between, a big grey area.

Without giving to much personal information here I can say that my liquid cash reserves are not bad.

But I don't want to spend the greatest part, or all of my liquid cash reserves on medical costs and leave my family without a penny.

Surely not if I can find a way to let my country pay for it.

After all, I have been contributing for more than 50 years to the Health Care in my own country and I am still contributing every month to the Health Care in my country by automatic deductions of my pension.

[coalminer]

ok, please tell what your home country is, it is a little difficult to draw plans without knowing and without being able to do some research on administrative procedures there.

Without giving out to much personal information, my home country is a Northern European country where Health Care is supplied by the country (Social Healthcare system).

AFAIK, my country has no way to tell if I'm there or not.

My Social Security Card has been "frozen" when I left my country for Thailand.

The only way to "unfreeze" my Social Security Card is to apply in person at the Health Care funds in my country.

Also, when I left my home country for Thailand I was no longer entitled to have a personal ID Card, which is required in my home country.

Ways to tell if I'm here or not:

- Every year, my pension funds sends me an assigned letter to my address in Thailand that needs to be returend within 30 days.

- I need a passport to stay in Thailand. This is registrered in the Embassy and my home country and the passport can be asked for controlling the stamps out and into my country.

- If I want to be a resident of my home country again, I will need to contact the local police and the local officials, which will make a random visit to see if I live at the given address or not. If I live at the given address, I will get a Police order to apply for an ID Card. Subsequent random visits within a year will be carried out by the local Police to see if I'm still living at the given address.

- If I want to return to my home country, I'm required to inform the Taxman that I'm residing again in the country and I will need to fill in Tax reports.

Ways enough to tell if I'm living in my home country or in Thailand.

One exception maybe, may be the European Union where I can travel around with only my ID Card.

But it should be noted that the Health Security in my home country refunds ALL the costs of a medical intervention WITHIN the European Community.

[kikoman]

I understand what you are saying ,same conclusion I came too, It is not a question of just medical care, Some one will have to pay for your treatment, If the State dose not.

Why at my age of 72 spent all the money, I saved to take care of my family when I am gone, to seek to prolong my life at the expense of my familys well being.

I have seen this done so many times, and I will not even think of doing that, my wife is of a different opinion that the medical treatment is more important. But on this subject I am the one making the decision ,without the emotion and guilt free.

I also advised my children not to come to Thailand for my Funeral, If they come to Thailand, I want them to come while I am still alive,So I can enjoy their visit!

I do not mean to try to put words in your mouth, but that is the under standing I get from your post, Not to have your passing on, impact negatively financially on your family.

If I am wrong ,please forgive my misunderstanding!

Cheers:

[Jingthing]

Travel Insurances such as Europ Assistance are well known in Europe for their prompt and good service.

They have their own airplanes and medical teams (flying doctors) and don't lose time on an investigation.

Not at all a waste of money.

I believe you implied you were proposing LYING to them about your residence status. I have no doubt they would honor legit claims. However, insurance companies don't generally respond well when they discover people have purchased policies using deceptive information. That was all I was talking about. If I misunderstood you, my regrets.

[siggie2]

Luckly I am still young at 34 years of age, and do not think about this much. But on the other hand I do worry that as I get older, with no pension how will I look after myself when I retire? I cannot afford to save for a pension at the moment, and I am also starting to worry about school fees which will

come next year.

So not the same problem as yours, but not that different. I think there must be many like us over here worrying about our future near or far.

I hope it works out for you and you also get peace of mind with your decision.

Enough pressure to get a heart attack

So no pension,no serps,no nothing when you reach 65.I assume you are a teacher on little money,and my suggestion is to get a job in your home country that pays more and you get a pension.34 is young to be getting in shit street,as i was earning 35,000 gbp per year at that age,plus a great private pension,which i have been taking advantage of for 6 years already

[siggie2]

I understand what you are saying ,same conclusion I came too, It is not a question of just medical care, Some one will have to pay for your treatment, If the State dose not.

Why at my age of 72 spent all the money, I saved to take care of my family when I am gone, to seek to prolong my life at the expense of my familys well being.

I have seen this done so many times, and I will not even think of doing that, my wife is of a different opinion that the medical treatment is more important. But on this subject I am the one making the decision ,without the emotion and guilt free.

I also advised my children not to come to Thailand for my Funeral, If they come to Thailand, I want them to come while I am still alive,So I can enjoy their visit!

I do not mean to try to put words in your mouth, but that is the under standing I get from your post, Not to have your passing on, impact negatively financially on your family.

If I am wrong ,please forgive my misunderstanding!

Cheers:

Was just about to post something like that,you beat me to it lol.Maybe thats why plenty of condo jumping in LOS.If i reach 65-70 with good health then i would have had 20 years here so i may well refuse to pay for some treatment and hopefuly die peacefully,because i will not pay mega money to prolong my death,that goes to my son

[chiangmaikelly]

If you lived in Sattahip and got real sick they would send you to Samitivej Sriracha Hospital 8 Soi Laemket, Jemjompol Rd., Sriracha, Chonburi 20110 Thailand. Because the Naval hospital is government but owned by the Navy so not really part of the governmental hospital system. There is another hospital across the street from the Navy one that is a government hospital and they send you to Sriracha if they can't handle the problem instead of across the street to Sirikit. From everything I have heard the Sriracha hospital is new and a very good choice. You could do a lot worse for a place to live than Sriracha. Go there and investigate. How expensive can a government hospital be!

[geriatrickid]

Chances are that if you get to 72-75 without a major crisis, you are going to be ok. Then it becomes a sudden catastrophic illness or dementia. The focus should be on having a fund set aside to provide for "nursing" and home care to give the wife and family a respite from the hard work of caring for an elderly invalid. I think that getting help 24/7 is going to a lot less costly and easier in Thailand than back in North America or the EU. My biggest fear is what to do if I succumb to alzheimers when I am older: Who will manage my affairs, who will see to it that I am not left to rot in filthy bedclothes as is too often the case with the elderly. The first step starts in finding people that will do the right thing and in having a living will. Not much good in having the money or insurance if there is no one there to administer it in accordance with one's desires. Children have a bad habit of feuding with each other over the type of care given and the burden usually falls on one of the children because the other(s) have bigger priorities, or there is only one child. Some spouses can't cope with the stress and responsibility. Maybe one of the first steps is to have a discussion with the family and wife on what to do and what you want. Too often we are afraid to have that talk. My father at least gave me the courtesy of saying he doesn't want to be a vegetable and I have a step mother that will take charge. That being said, he's been in the hospital before and despite all the talks and direction given by him, the situation can push those directions aside. You guys with a good partner and children have it easier than people like me that are single with just a companion critter. If I get mowed down by a tuk tuk, I have to hope that someone finds the toll free number in my pocket and calls my medical care provider hotline. As much as I like my friends, I would never expect them to take care of me, especially when they have their own parents and families. Like many other males that hang around Thailand, all my relatives are out of the country. It's a worry that hangs heavy for me.

[coalminer]

I understand what you are saying ,same conclusion I came too, It is not a question of just medical care, Some one will have to pay for your treatment, If the State dose not.

Why at my age of 72 spent all the money, I saved to take care of my family when I am gone, to seek to prolong my life at the expense of my familys well being.

I have seen this done so many times, and I will not even think of doing that, my wife is of a different opinion that the medical treatment is more important. But on this subject I am the one making the decision ,without the emotion and guilt free.

I also advised my children not to come to Thailand for my Funeral, If they come to Thailand, I want them to come while I am still alive,So I can enjoy their visit!

I do not mean to try to put words in your mouth, but that is the under standing I get from your post, Not to have your passing on, impact negatively financially on your family.

If I am wrong ,please forgive my misunderstanding!

Cheers:

Yolu are 101% correct.

I don't want to give all my money to a few medics who will maybe not be able to prolonge my life anyway.

But I want my family to have a good life with my money and my child a good education.

I have contributed millions of Bahts to the Health Care system in my country.

The only ones who are benefitting from all that money are the illegal immigrants and the muslims with their 21 children.

Why not return to my country when things are going wrong and let the Social Security pay for me one time.

Cheers

[coalminer]

Was just about to post something like that,you beat me to it lol.Maybe thats why plenty of condo jumping in LOS.If i reach 65-70 with good health then i would have had 20 years here so i may well refuse to pay for some treatment and hopefuly die peacefully,because i will not pay mega money to prolong my death,that goes to my son

The "balcony jump" may be a quick way out of the problem, but I know of many other, real stories, which would make you think otherwise about this problem.

I know personally a woman, living in Pattaya, who was married to German guy.

Together, they made a small fortune and were able to buy a few houes in Pattaya.

Until one day, the guy was involved in a traffic accident and was transported to the Bangkok Hospital.

There, he was kept alive with all kind of machines for a few months, untill he finaly died.

The wife lives now in a little "shag", sold all their houses to pay the hospital bill's andis still paying off the bill's from Bangok hospital.

I want to avoid such an option to my family at all costs.